Winnipeg Jets - the more things change, the more they stay the same?

NiL8r87

Registered User
Jun 30, 2009
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It actually boggles my mind that the Jets were as bad as they were last year, I think they've been pretty stacked for the last couple of years and I would expect them to compete for the playoffs this year.

-Amazing rookies in Laine, Connor.
-Young studs like Ehlers, Scheifele, Trouba
-Solid to great vets like Wheeler, Buff, Enstrom, Myers, Little, Perreault, Stafford
-Young upcoming goalies in Hutch and Helly

And then last year they were less Laine and Connor but had Ladd.
 

Mad Dog Tannen

Registered User
Apr 10, 2010
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It actually boggles my mind that the Jets were as bad as they were last year, I think they've been pretty stacked for the last couple of years and I would expect them to compete for the playoffs this year.

-Amazing rookies in Laine, Connor.
-Young studs like Ehlers, Scheifele, Trouba
-Solid to great vets like Wheeler, Buff, Enstrom, Myers, Little, Perreault, Stafford
-Young upcoming goalies in Hutch and Helly

And then last year they were less Laine and Connor but had Ladd.

Goaltending has been an issue.

This year it seems the team doesn't think goals scored in the first 40 count.
 

Kamiccolo

Truly wonderful, the mind of a child is.
Aug 30, 2011
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Jets management is pretty open about the fact that they're expecting to be as 'painfully young' as last year.

Frankly the Leafs seem to be following their footsteps. I don't know why one would be so quick to deem the Jets eternal tire-spinners when popular opinion seems to be that the Leafs are finally "doing it right".

Jets have been rebuilding 3 years or so longer than the Leafs. They should have been a playoff team last season or this season.

Leafs are in year two of their plan, or technically 2.5 as I count when Carlyle was fired and the team collapsed to pick Marner as the start, as that was when Shanny stopped observing and started the management changes that brought about the present reality.

Anyway on topic: They were not good tonight. The Leafs were the better team, but some bad bounces, bad goaltending, and blown defensive coverage all aligned with some nice plays by Laine for them to get the win.

I expect these mistakes early on, as I said before it will be Christmas before these kids understand how this works.
 

Number 57

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Dec 21, 2004
11,656
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Montreal
They have Little-Ehlers-Wheeler-Laine-Scheifele-Connor up front and Myers-Buf-Trouba-Morrissey on D as well as Hutchinson-Comrie-Hellebuyck in goal.

It seems like their future is quite bright. I don't know what will happen with Trouba but if traded he should at least bring back a similar asset.

I would say if most of their kids reach their potential they should be Cup contenders in 2-3 years. Just be patient.

It may be good for them to have a top-10 picks this year so they can add another quality player to their roster in 3-4 years (after spending a year or two to developp in AHL).
 

Guerzy

I'm a fricken baby
Jan 16, 2005
39,854
3,121
We are a team who has long had our troubles taking the next step. We've went from an awful team who couldn't get it together under Noel, no organization depth in the form of prospects or NHL players (supporting cast). We were essentially a one line team of Ladd - Little - Wheeler / Enstrom - Byfuglien with awful goaltending (Pavelec). We eventually built some NHL roster depth coupled with some youth (Scheifele, Trouba) and evolved to a team that seemed to find their groove, footing and identity under Maurice (big, heavy, fast, strong possession, etc). Made the playoffs on that identity but we failed and bowed out early. It appears after that playoff appearance management shifted the gears as it didn't appear that group or mold would be what brought the organization consistent, long-term success. The switch seemed to be flipped for the 2015-16 season as more youth was introduced. We struggled mightily last season, took our punches and were rewarded with a lottery pick (Laine). Which in return appears like it's going to be a game changer for this organization.

Vets Wheeler, Little, Byfuglien, Enstrom, Perreault, Myers coupled with youth in Scheifele, Laine, Ehlers, Connor, Morrissey, Hellebuyck, Armia, and a prospect system still consisting of Petan, Dano, Roslovic, Lemieux, Comrie, Copp, De Leo, Stanley, etc.. are what this group will ride or die on in the coming years. And Chevy making the right roster moves when needed to compliment this group, fill gaps, and help lift them to the next level when they prove worthy. Chevy hasn't been perfect in his role as GM to this point, he's made his mistakes and he's called some good shots and made some nice moves. Name me a perfect GM who utilizes a "plan" from start to finish with perfection, it isn't easy to do. Even Dean Lombardi had his critics in LA before it all came together. No plan is the perfect plan until you hoist Lord Stanley, then it all feels worth it and makes sense.

All of that being said, as poor as last years team was, this years team in comparison is minus Ladd (We got Stanley + Dano in return, both not on the NHL roster), Little (Injured), Trouba (Holding out). Those are all top line, reliable players who played big key roles. You take last years team, subtract Ladd, Little, Trouba and you essentially replace them with Laine (Ladd), Morrissey (Trouba) and nobody for Little given the circumstances (injured in game 1, our indefinitely). We're going to take our fair share of punches here this season until younger players grow into some pretty heavy and demanding roles (and Little returns).

What I am envisioning this year is a young team who will struggle through the first half of the season. Ups, downs, blown leads, dramatic comebacks, good nights, bad nights. There will be frustrating nights but there will also be some really, really exciting nights. I never turn the tv off no matter the score this year because these young kids are just too much fun to watch, in my opinion. I want to see our team systems and special teams become competent and improve (very soon, a lot of it is coaching), and I want to see the young players on this team become more comfortable and adjusted in their new roles as NHL'ers, as well as our vets lead and be contributing players leading the pack. Then, ideally, in the second half of this season we go on a run and things begin clicking and coming together nicely (wishful thinking, I know) but I think it can happen. Perhaps we make the playoffs (doubtful in my opinion), perhaps we just miss the mark by a few/handful of points. But I want to see the above happen and an identity with this group be formed.

Goaltending also has to be solidified, and it should be with Connor Hellebuyck now on the roster full-time. We need him to take the reins and be 'the guy'. Or Hutch, but the future is no doubt on Hellebuyck and it's his crease to have if he can carry the load and prove his worth.

Next year I hope we can really hit the ground running, as the entire team returns (for the most part - Stafford, Thorburn, Postma, Pavelec UFA's July 1st 2017, and we will lose one player (of minimal impact) to the expansion draft). I expect growing pains this year but next season (2017-18) I expect results and for the team to hit the ground running --- no excuses. If they struggle out of the gate next season I think Maurice is gone. The years that follow (2018-19, 2019-20, etc) I expect to take our place in the upper echelon of teams contending for Lord Stanley.

If this doesn't happen then it's time for management and ownership to look in the mirror because their blueprint of a draft and develop team won't be worth a lick if they don't turn this thing around in the next couple seasons to results. No GM, management group or plan needs 10 years to finally become relevant so this either works and comes together in the next year or two or I think the pitchforks come out in Winnipeg and Chevy, Chipman and co. will have a fan base demanding change and results.
 
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lomiller1

Registered User
Jan 13, 2015
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The Thrasher organization did a really good job the last year or two in Atlanta. This is especially true given the ownership problems they had to fight through. But, their approach was tailored to what they needed in that market, while TNSE wanted a different approach for the Winnipeg market.

The Thrashers had a number of really good players they had identified and acquired really cheaply because they were underutilized with their existing team. This formed a pretty good, youngish nucleus, but they didn’t have the parts around them or the depth in prospects to go much farther. I think that if the team had stayed there under that management they would have continued to add to that core and probably had some successful sooner. This doesn’t mean TNSE was wrong though, until they are winning it’s going to be harder to follow that strategy in Winnipeg, so they decided to go the other way and start building a prospect pool and developing players internally.

What confuses some people is that TNSE decided not to blow up their existing core until they had a pool of young players ready to fill in. Again I think they made the right decision. As good as they proved to be Ladd, Buff, Wheeler or Little would not have returned a lot in 2011. The Thrashers had acquired them for cheep because they were underutilized, but if the Jets sold them the same market conditions would have applied. Instead they used them to insulate and teach the younger guys they brought in.

Other than possibly moving Ladd a little sooner, I don’t see much else they could have done differently. Wheeler, Little and maybe Buff probably have their max trade value right now, but they are past the “blow it up†phase they need the veteran leadership not more [prospects. Enstrom has a no-move and plays the position where they Jets are thinnest so while his value is diminishing they never really had the option to move him. They really didn’t have a lot of valuable players they could have traded for assets. They did get 2 seconds for Oduya on an expiring contract.

Anyway, I like most of what TNSE has done. I also like a lot of what the Thrashers did the last year or two in Atlanta, but the change indirection was needed for the Winnipeg market and it’s been pretty well executed overall.

Just as a side note, I’m glad I wasn’t reading these forums back in 2010/11 when the move happened. I lived though the Jets move out of Winnipeg and saw firsthand the accusations of it being about the market. I would have had a real hard time seeing another fan base losing their team and suffering the same BS.
 

Bongo

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Feb 7, 2007
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0
Atlanta
The Jets went from the League's weakest Division, the Southeast, to the League's toughest in the Central. They still managed to finish each year on or around the same number of points. That in and of itself shows improvement. Keeping Pavelec around didn't help matters. You can't teach consistency.

I am disappointed nonetheless. We were all told the team sucked mainly because it was in Atlanta and a move to a hotbed of hockey culture would improve the team instantly. Oh well. I feel like we, the Atlanta fans, deserve to see this team enjoy some success as much as our Northern brethren
 

lomiller1

Registered User
Jan 13, 2015
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Jets have been rebuilding 3 years or so longer than the Leafs. They should have been a playoff team last season or this season.

Leafs are in year two of their plan, or technically 2.5 as I count when Carlyle was fired and the team collapsed to pick Marner as the start, as that was when Shanny stopped observing and started the management changes that brought about the present reality.

The Jets are less than half a year into their transition. You can’t even call it a rebuild because the only core player they have moved out is Ladd, so I don’t think you can call it a rebuild. Even when they traded Kane&Bogo they brought back roster players of similar age, and they never quite managed to break into the Jets core.
The paradigm of Ladd – Little –Wheeler at Forward and Enstrom – Buff on D had been what the team revolved around this core going back to the days in Atlanta. Most of those players are still here playing big roles with the team so where is the rebuild?
 

Guerzy

I'm a fricken baby
Jan 16, 2005
39,854
3,121
The Thrasher organization did a really good job the last year or two in Atlanta. This is especially true given the ownership problems they had to fight through. But, their approach was tailored to what they needed in that market, while TNSE wanted a different approach for the Winnipeg market.

The Thrashers had a number of really good players they had identified and acquired really cheaply because they were underutilized with their existing team. This formed a pretty good, youngish nucleus, but they didn’t have the parts around them or the depth in prospects to go much farther. I think that if the team had stayed there under that management they would have continued to add to that core and probably had some successful sooner. This doesn’t mean TNSE was wrong though, until they are winning it’s going to be harder to follow that strategy in Winnipeg, so they decided to go the other way and start building a prospect pool and developing players internally.

What confuses some people is that TNSE decided not to blow up their existing core until they had a pool of young players ready to fill in. Again I think they made the right decision. As good as they proved to be Ladd, Buff, Wheeler or Little would not have returned a lot in 2011. The Thrashers had acquired them for cheep because they were underutilized, but if the Jets sold them the same market conditions would have applied. Instead they used them to insulate and teach the younger guys they brought in.

Other than possibly moving Ladd a little sooner, I don’t see much else they could have done differently. Wheeler, Little and maybe Buff probably have their max trade value right now, but they are past the “blow it up†phase they need the veteran leadership not more [prospects. Enstrom has a no-move and plays the position where they Jets are thinnest so while his value is diminishing they never really had the option to move him. They really didn’t have a lot of valuable players they could have traded for assets. They did get 2 seconds for Oduya on an expiring contract.

Anyway, I like most of what TNSE has done. I also like a lot of what the Thrashers did the last year or two in Atlanta, but the change indirection was needed for the Winnipeg market and it’s been pretty well executed overall.

Just as a side note, I’m glad I wasn’t reading these forums back in 2010/11 when the move happened. I lived though the Jets move out of Winnipeg and saw firsthand the accusations of it being about the market. I would have had a real hard time seeing another fan base losing their team and suffering the same BS.

Fantastic post.
 

Guerzy

I'm a fricken baby
Jan 16, 2005
39,854
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Also it's worth mentioning I think Chevy and co. were expecting to get more out of recent Atlanta high draft picks, this is three high 1st round picks prior to the relocation - Bogosian (3rd overal 2008), Kane (4th overall 2009), Burmistrov (8th overall 2010).

It didn't happen. Coupled with the fact Pavelec is an awful goaltender who Chevy re-signed to a big contract and stuck with him come hell or high water, the supporting cast that ideally could have helped Ladd - Little - Wheeler / Enstrom - Byfuglien, given they were high draft picks, just didn't pan out as expected/hoped.
 

Gotta Jet

Registered User
Aug 25, 2011
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Behind the net
Winnipeg is going to be an amazing team in the near future, coming from a Leafs fan. They are stacked with talent.

I would take this a few steps father still....

Winnipeg, Toronto, Edmonton and Calgary are a few years still from being very exciting and successful teams. Hockey will be right again in Canada. Most Canadian teams (sorry Vancouver) will be playoff bound in a few years time.
 

Street Hawk

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Feb 18, 2003
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Jets needed to rebuild asset base when they arrived in Winnipeg. Done a very job at that.

At some point, whether it is this season or next. They have e to push to be a consistent playoff team. And if they fail, heads should roll.

So, if this season is another miss, it is ok so long as the goalies develop. And a young dman or two get some experience. And they resolve the Trouba situation.

But, next season, it's playoffs or Maurice is gone. And Chevy would have fired his second coach. Next one has to not just make the playoffs but by year 3 start getting I to the final 4.
 

Guerzy

I'm a fricken baby
Jan 16, 2005
39,854
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Jets needed to rebuild asset base when they arrived in Winnipeg. Done a very job at that.

At some point, whether it is this season or next. They have e to push to be a consistent playoff team. And if they fail, heads should roll.

So, if this season is another miss, it is ok so long as the goalies develop. And a young dman or two get some experience. And they resolve the Trouba situation.

But, next season, it's playoffs or Maurice is gone. And Chevy would have fired his second coach. Next one has to not just make the playoffs but by year 3 start getting I to the final 4.

Completely agree. This development blueprint has to soon become more about results and less about the process. Not yet. But soon. You and I agree here. The next 1-3 years for me are going to be very interesting in where this organization goes, or doesn't.

Many believe Noel was more of TNSE/Chipman's choice and less of Chevy's choice. So I give Chevy some breathing room on that one. But Maurice was all Chevy and if Maurice has to get fired then Chevy has to get it right with the new head coach. At that time it will be the organizations 3rd head coach under the same management. And if/when that time comes, if this train doesn't start moving full speed ahead, Jets fans will have the pitchforks out demanding heads roll, changes be made and results wanted.

Of course this process would have to materialize and play itself out over the next few years, so we're talking a lot of hypotheticals but I think it's all realistic to discuss. Soon down the road here it will have been nearing 10 years since the relocation. You can't call it a process forever. :laugh:
 
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Whileee

Registered User
May 29, 2010
46,075
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The Jets have actually been a pretty good team over the past couple of seasons, but held back by two key deficits: 1) inconsistent goaltending; 2) bad penalty differentials and special teams. Over 2014/15 and 2015/16 the Jets were 8th overall in 5v5 CF%. There is some hope that replacing Pavelec with Hellebuyck will improve the goaltending, and adding skilled players will improve the penalty differential and special teams. Time will tell, though. I think that there will still be some growing pains as the Jets continue to adjust to incorporating a lot of youth and moving from a "heavy" game to a "skill / quickness" game. Getting to the playoffs this season would be a bonus, though shouldn't be a big shock considering how well this team has played 5v5 the past couple of seasons.

By the way, I believe that stats analyst extraordinaire Garret Hohl noted on the Jets' Board that this is the first recorded time that the #1 and #2 picks went to teams that both had >50% CF the previous season. I think the Leafs and Jets might be good sooner than many expect.
 

irunthepeg

Board man gets paid
May 20, 2010
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The Peg, Canada


Note: not every Jets fan agrees with this chant or the need to vocalize it if we think it. It's fun to join in the chant at the game because it's just part of the atmosphere and it's the crowds one way of getting involved in the game in trying to psych good players out.
 

leafsfan1234

Registered User
Jun 18, 2016
2,010
231
Jets have been under performing for years... Doesn't help that their GM for some reason kept bringing back Pavelec year after year when guys like James Reimer were available for free.
 

Saitama

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Oct 20, 2010
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I think people seem to forget the second part of "draft and develop" and expect that since we've drafted all these picks, we should immediately be way better. The Jets will be fine.
 

Mad Dog Tannen

Registered User
Apr 10, 2010
4,946
2,647
Jets have been under performing for years... Doesn't help that their GM for some reason kept bringing back Pavelec year after year when guys like James Reimer were available for free.

Yes, Chevy definitely made a foolish move by locking up pavs in an expensive 5 year contract, based on very little NHL evidence ( one good season prior to signing). It really hurt the club the past few years. Thank god it's over, and the jets can move forward.


Anyways.....so, Anderson eh? :popcorn::popcorn:
 

MikeRahl

Registered User
Feb 20, 2010
229
6
The prospect cupboard was pretty bare when they got here. Atlanta/Winnipeg was never a FA destination anyways.

Taking a peek at Wikipedia, it looks like between 2004 (arbitrary date) and 2010 when they moved, the Thrashers drafted 8 players who have more than 82 games played in the NHL.

That already seems low, but wait theres more!

Of those... 2 were traded, 1 is now our backup AHL goalie, 2 of them make up the bottom pair D, one is a bottom 6 forward and another isn't in the organization any more. The 8th player is Brian Little.
 

AtlantaPeg

Registered User
Oct 14, 2016
9
26
The Thrasher organization did a really good job the last year or two in Atlanta. This is especially true given the ownership problems they had to fight through. But, their approach was tailored to what they needed in that market, while TNSE wanted a different approach for the Winnipeg market.

The Thrashers had a number of really good players they had identified and acquired really cheaply because they were underutilized with their existing team. This formed a pretty good, youngish nucleus, but they didn’t have the parts around them or the depth in prospects to go much farther. I think that if the team had stayed there under that management they would have continued to add to that core and probably had some successful sooner. This doesn’t mean TNSE was wrong though, until they are winning it’s going to be harder to follow that strategy in Winnipeg, so they decided to go the other way and start building a prospect pool and developing players internally.

What confuses some people is that TNSE decided not to blow up their existing core until they had a pool of young players ready to fill in. Again I think they made the right decision. As good as they proved to be Ladd, Buff, Wheeler or Little would not have returned a lot in 2011. The Thrashers had acquired them for cheep because they were underutilized, but if the Jets sold them the same market conditions would have applied. Instead they used them to insulate and teach the younger guys they brought in.

Other than possibly moving Ladd a little sooner, I don’t see much else they could have done differently. Wheeler, Little and maybe Buff probably have their max trade value right now, but they are past the “blow it up†phase they need the veteran leadership not more [prospects. Enstrom has a no-move and plays the position where they Jets are thinnest so while his value is diminishing they never really had the option to move him. They really didn’t have a lot of valuable players they could have traded for assets. They did get 2 seconds for Oduya on an expiring contract.

Anyway, I like most of what TNSE has done. I also like a lot of what the Thrashers did the last year or two in Atlanta, but the change indirection was needed for the Winnipeg market and it’s been pretty well executed overall.

Just as a side note, I’m glad I wasn’t reading these forums back in 2010/11 when the move happened. I lived though the Jets move out of Winnipeg and saw firsthand the accusations of it being about the market. I would have had a real hard time seeing another fan base losing their team and suffering the same BS.

I was a fan of the Thrashers the entire time they were in Atlanta. Spent a ton of money going to the games and was at the second playoff game the only year they went when a fluke goal off of one of the glass stanchions went in on a dump in. SMH

I have been on this site forever just never posted anything. I still follow the Jets and pay for Gamecenter every year, I mean really what other team would I follow? I can tell you when it was announced the Thrashers were moving to Winnipeg it was like my heart was wrenched out of my chest. That team would have worked here, the owners only cared about the basketball team. Oh and Don Waddell was a complete tool.

I am a Jets fan now...from afar...but a fan no less. This team is progressing and should be a contender soon. Maybe not this year, but soon...Go Jets
 

Burke the Legend

Registered User
Feb 22, 2012
8,317
2,850
I gotta laugh because during the offseason Jets fans were insulted when people dared to point out their goaltending was a dubious. They said Hellebuyck (28 career NHL games) and Hutchison (73 career games) would be more than adequate, they predicted a playoff appearance. Shoulda gone out and picked up a vet like Montoya.
 

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