OT: Winnipeg in the NHL: What the hockey world thought in 2004

[GJF]

To be fair, no one thought the NHL would have been interested in a city with so few parks.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

I've been on here since 06 and I did not think that Jets returning was in any way realistic until probably summer 2010. I did think that the building was a little too small (still think it'd have been nice for the building to be 2K bigger) and more importantly that the league had little interest in returning to Winnipeg. Honestly I still believe that had the NHL had any choice in the matter there would not be a team in Winnipeg. Winnipeg got lucky that they had the only management team in the league in place that had a newer building with deep pockets and was willing to play the long game (wait patiently for an opportunity). Unlike Hamilton which had an owner trying to force things, Winnipeg waited until NHL was out of options and two teams in desperate need. As we've seen with the rejected Quebec expansion bid, the NHL has little interest in returning to small canadian markets, unless you stay ready for a team and wait for the perfect moment.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I've been on here since 06 and I did not think that Jets returning was in any way realistic until probably summer 2010. I did think that the building was a little too small (still think it'd have been nice for the building to be 2K bigger) and more importantly that the league had little interest in returning to Winnipeg. Honestly I still believe that had the NHL had any choice in the matter there would not be a team in Winnipeg. Winnipeg got lucky that they had the only management team in the league in place that had a newer building with deep pockets and was willing to play the long game (wait patiently for an opportunity). Unlike Hamilton which had an owner trying to force things, Winnipeg waited until NHL was out of options and two teams in desperate need. As we've seen with the rejected Quebec expansion bid, the NHL has little interest in returning to small canadian markets, unless you stay ready for a team and wait for the perfect moment.

I don't think that happened. The bid was put on hold by the bidder, probably $C related.

 

[TheDeuce]

Three things from those days stand out in my memory:

1. My older brother (20 years older!) simply slamming the discussion shut with a stern "it'll never happen!". Funny how those baby boomers have no vision left!

2. CJOB mocking us true believers at every turn. Try to call in with a pro-ROTJ opinion? Try to offer rational arguments in favour of the ROTJ? All that got you was insults, mockery, a suggestion that you lived in your mom's basement, and a rude hang up. To this day I still boycott CJOB except for Bomber games.

3. HFBoards not allowing me to create an account for no other reason than my IP address was from Manitoba (or perhaps with MTS; I never learned the distinction). I'm guessing they were having trouble with some Blackthorne types but still...

It all worked out in the end though - because of Jetsowner I made sure I had Moose season tickets and ended up with some of the best seats in the house for my Jets season tickets.



m.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Three things from those days stand out in my memory:

1. My older brother (20 years older!) simply slamming the discussion shut with a stern "it'll never happen!". Funny how those baby boomers have no vision left!

2. CJOB mocking us true believers at every turn. Try to call in with a pro-ROTJ opinion? Try to offer rational arguments in favour of the ROTJ? All that got you was insults, mockery, a suggestion that you lived in your mom's basement, and a rude hang up. To this day I still boycott CJOB except for Bomber games.

3. HFBoards not allowing me to create an account for no other reason than my IP address was from Manitoba (or perhaps with MTS; I never learned the distinction). I'm guessing they were having trouble with some Blackthorne types but still...

It all worked out in the end though - because of Jetsowner I made sure I had Moose season tickets and ended up with some of the best seats in the house for my Jets season tickets.



m.

I can absolutely 100% guarantee that this never happened. There are plenty of legitimate reasons why Hfboards blocks some registrations (I was on the team that reviewed new applications for a while) an IP address from Manitoba would never have been blocked just for that reason.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Three things from those days stand out in my memory:

1. My older brother (20 years older!) simply slamming the discussion shut with a stern "it'll never happen!". Funny how those baby boomers have no vision left!

2. CJOB mocking us true believers at every turn. Try to call in with a pro-ROTJ opinion? Try to offer rational arguments in favour of the ROTJ? All that got you was insults, mockery, a suggestion that you lived in your mom's basement, and a rude hang up. To this day I still boycott CJOB except for Bomber games.

3. HFBoards not allowing me to create an account for no other reason than my IP address was from Manitoba (or perhaps with MTS; I never learned the distinction). I'm guessing they were having trouble with some Blackthorne types but still...

It all worked out in the end though - because of Jetsowner I made sure I had Moose season tickets and ended up with some of the best seats in the house for my Jets season tickets.

I have to admit I was not only skeptical of a return ever happening but opposed to it. I didn't want to experience the loss again and I had no faith in Winnipeg being able to support an NHL team. I was not convinced otherwise until the near instant sell-out of the very high priced tickets.

Jets 1.0 had averaged about 13.5k attendance since joining the NHL. That was in spite of much lower ticket prices, even adjusted for inflation and including some near free (7-11). We could discuss salary caps, revenue sharing and the MTSC but the simple failure of Winnipeg to adequately support Jets 1.0 trumped everything else as far as I was concerned.

Very happy to have been wrong.

Where's my smilies?

 

[Jets4Life]

I've been on here since 06 and I did not think that Jets returning was in any way realistic until probably summer 2010. I did think that the building was a little too small (still think it'd have been nice for the building to be 2K bigger) and more importantly that the league had little interest in returning to Winnipeg. Honestly I still believe that had the NHL had any choice in the matter there would not be a team in Winnipeg. Winnipeg got lucky that they had the only management team in the league in place that had a newer building with deep pockets and was willing to play the long game (wait patiently for an opportunity). Unlike Hamilton which had an owner trying to force things, Winnipeg waited until NHL was out of options and two teams in desperate need. As we've seen with the rejected Quebec expansion bid, the NHL has little interest in returning to small canadian markets, unless you stay ready for a team and wait for the perfect moment.

I was fairly optimistic by spring 2005 that the Jets had a legitimate chance. I even theorized that hockey fans would not return in some markets where hockey is a novelty (Phoenix, Florida, Atlanta, Carolina, Nashville, etc). By the end of 2005, I was becoming less optimistic, and with Balsillie entering the picture, I thought Hamilton would eventually get a team. When the deal to buy the Coyotes failed, and the lawsuit against the NHL was tossed out, I started believing the Jets had the best chance once again (spring 2009). In early 2011, with Goldwater group trying to put the kibbosh on the City of Glendale's pledge of covering all Coyotes losses ($25 million a year), I fully believed that Phoenix would move here, and I had tunnel vision about the original Jets landing back in Winnipeg after 15 years.

Props have to go out to Cherry and MacLean for insisting Winnipeg was the best place to put a team. I still remember Bettman becoming visibly annoyed with Ron, as he would not let the issue rest, and kept bringing it up...lol. If you do a YouTube search, Don Cherry says "WINNIPEG: GET READY!" over a month before the Brunt announcement in the G & M. That was so surreal I literally had goosebumps.

It came as a pleasant surprise when ASG decided to sell hockey operations to outside bidders. What a wild ride. I did not make it out to the rally on May 19 after the article in the Globe & Mail came out, but I was there for the celebration at the Forks once I finished up at work in the afternoon. May 31, cold, light rain wind. I didn't care. I was bombed, and don't remember anything past 10 PM lol. Phoned in sick the next day, and luckily my boss understood.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

I was fairly optimistic by spring 2005 that the Jets had a legitimate chance. I even theorized that hockey fans would not return in some markets where hockey is a novelty (Phoenix, Florida, Atlanta, Carolina, Nashville, etc). By the end of 2005, I was becoming less optimistic, and with Balsillie entering the picture, I thought Hamilton would eventually get a team. When the deal to buy the Coyotes failed, and the lawsuit against the NHL was tossed out, I started believing the Jets had the best chance once again (spring 2009). In early 2011, with Goldwater group trying to put the kibbosh on the City of Glendale's pledge of covering all Coyotes losses ($25 million a year), I fully believed that Phoenix would move here, and I had tunnel vision about the original Jets landing back in Winnipeg after 15 years.

Props have to go out to Cherry and MacLean for insisting Winnipeg was the best place to put a team. I still remember Bettman becoming visibly annoyed with Ron, as he would not let the issue rest, and kept bringing it up...lol. If you do a YouTube search, I think Don Cherry says "WINNIPEG: GET READY!" just days before the Brunt announcement in the G & M. That was so surreal I literally had goosebumps.

It came as a pleasant surprise when ASG decided to sell hockey operations to outside bidders. What a wild ride. I did not make it out to the rally on May 19 after the article in the Globe & Mail came out, but I was there for the celebration at the Forks once I finished up at work in the afternoon. May 31, cold, light rain wind. I didn't care. I was bombed, and don't remember anything past 10 PM lol. Phoned in sick the next day, and luckily my boss understood.

The Night of May 19 was the happiest day of my young life.

I know Darren Ford sometimes gets a bad rap on twitter and here, but his speach on P&M at, like 2:30 in the morning yelling:

WHOSE READY TO HATE THE CANUCKS AGAIN!

huge cheering

WHOSE READY TO HATE THE FLAMES AGAIN!

Bigger Cheers

WHOSE READY TO HATE THE OILERS AGAIN

Crowd goes absolutely nuts.

Was gold for me.

I also remember reading a story, not sure if it's true, but Bettman called Chipman that night in a rage, yelling about the leak, and how it wasn't really a done deal, and apparently Chipman was driving past P&M and told Bettman:

"You think you got problems, listen to this"

and then stuck his phone out the window.

No idea if that story is true, but I'd like to think it is.

 

[TheDeuce]

I can absolutely 100% guarantee that this never happened. There are plenty of legitimate reasons why Hfboards blocks some registrations (I was on the team that reviewed new applications for a while) an IP address from Manitoba would never have been blocked just for that reason.

Interesting. I remember that I wasn't the only one with that problem. I ended up being registered from another locale (California) and had no problems from there. I still have the PMs at returnofthejets..com where the issue was being discussed / resolved.

It was an exciting time especially for those who kind of knew what was happening behind the scenes here in Winnipeg. I rather enjoyed sitting and listening to all the self-anointed experts talking about how the NHL would never return while bathing in silent self-regard knowing how very wrong they all were.

It's kind of like reading the flat earth society website these days.





m.

 

[TheDeuce]

The Night of May 19 was the happiest day of my young life.

I know Darren Ford sometimes gets a bad rap on twitter and here, but his speach on P&M at, like 2:30 in the morning yelling:

WHOSE READY TO HATE THE CANUCKS AGAIN!

huge cheering

WHOSE READY TO HATE THE FLAMES AGAIN!

Bigger Cheers

WHOSE READY TO HATE THE OILERS AGAIN

Crowd goes absolutely nuts.

Was gold for me.

I also remember reading a story, not sure if it's true, but Bettman called Chipman that night in a rage, yelling about the leak, and how it wasn't really a done deal, and apparently Chipman was driving past P&M and told Bettman:

"You think you got problems, listen to this"

and then stuck his phone out the window.

No idea if that story is true, but I'd like to think it is.

It was more like:

"Gary, you're getting texts? I see. Well, I'm in a traffic jam on Portage avenue, people in Jets jerseys are running wild in the streets, there's a Go Jets Go chant going on all around me, and I haven't moved a foot in the last ten minutes".

I know there was video footage of Bettman at the moment he got the initial texts of the leaks and his reaction was precious. Does anyone know where that clip is?



m.

 

[Jets4Life]

And to just think...if Balsillie had played his cards right, instead of fighting the establishment, I have no doubt Hamilton would have gotten our team by 2009 at the latest. I am still convinced that the reason Bettman fought so hard to keep the Coyotes in Arizona was ego driven, as a move by the franchise would have vindicated Balsillie. I admit to feeling bad for the people of Hamilton. They ahve been jerked around by the NHL for 30 years. In a perfect world the Arizona franchise would ahve returned to Winnipeg (like the Raiders or Rams), but beggars cannot be choosers.

 

[Gm0ney]

And to just think...if Balsillie had played his cards right, instead of fighting the establishment, I have no doubt Hamilton would have gotten our team by 2009 at the latest. I am still convinced that the reason Bettman fought so hard to keep the Coyotes in Arizona was ego driven, as a move by the franchise would have vindicated Balsillie. I admit to feeling bad for the people of Hamilton. They ahve been jerked around by the NHL for 30 years. In a perfect world the Arizona franchise would ahve returned to Winnipeg (like the Raiders or Rams), but beggars cannot be choosers.

I think the Coyotes thing had more to do with the principle that if you build a new arena for the NHL, they will do everything they can to try to make it work. If the league wants to keep the publicly funded gravy train on the tracks, they can't be seen walking out on a city that put up $200M for a new NHL arena just a few years after the cement is dry. It also explains why the Thrashers were sold and moved with merely a token effort by the NHL to keep them there.

 

[tacogeoff]

Of those 300,000 you could count on @ least 100,000 hockey fans. They'd probably use the Winnipeg model that results in a waiting list for season tickets.
Atlanta has close to 6 million people but since they've lost 2 teams obviously didn't have enough hockey fans willing to pay to watch. Arizona is the same story with a large population but even with the snowbirds not enough that care that much about hockey.
In Saskatoon they could charge the average couple of hundred per game like other Canadian cities & fill the rink. 15000 tickets @ $100+ every game > 20,000 @ $35 average (including giveaways & promo items) should a city like Phoenix sell out a game.
There are non-traditional sites that worked (Nashville has a pretty solid fan base) but even former strong sites like Denver are a hard sell in leaner times when the team isn't good.

I think they could do it but I also don't think the NHL would never want a team there. If we use CFL attendance as a measuring stick. in 2016 they drew on average 31K at home games vs our 26K average at home games. they also have a population difference of almost 500K.

https://stats.cfldb.ca/league/cfl/attendance/2016/

I also think the NHL is a different animal than the CFL and would garner even more support. BUT the sticking point would be the cost of season tickets and single game tickets, which in turn may drive down support. Plus there may not be as much corporate support (unsure how our industries stack up) and also distribution of wealth in Saskatchewan.

 

[TheDeuce]

Is there legitimate interest in having an NHL team in Saskatchewan? I don't think CFL interest is a solid indicator of NHL interest. There's a world of difference between 10 weekend home games per year vs 44 weekday/weekend home games per year.

I'd be glad to see it though. And after hearing all the naysaying against Winnipeg being an NHL destination I'm not willing to declare that it wouldn't work in Saskatoon but I am curious if the locals have a real hunger for the NHL there.




m.

 

[tacogeoff]

Is there legitimate interest in having an NHL team in Saskatchewan? I don't think CFL interest is a solid indicator of NHL interest. There's a world of difference between 10 weekend home games per year vs 44 weekday/weekend home games per year.

I'd be glad to see it though. And after hearing all the naysaying against Winnipeg being an NHL destination I'm not willing to declare that it wouldn't work in Saskatoon but I am curious if the locals have a real hunger for the NHL there.

m.

By a legitimate person/organization that could buy a franchise? I don't think so. was just throwing out some hypothetical numbers in regards to their only pro sport attendance numbers.
I think any professional hockey team, AHL or NHL would garner fan commitment. its hockey
but to really gauge whether the support/money was there it would take a professional survey and other kinds of assessments to determine the viability of sustaining such a high level pro sports team

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think they could do it but I also don't think the NHL would never want a team there. If we use CFL attendance as a measuring stick. in 2016 they drew on average 31K at home games vs our 26K average at home games. they also have a population difference of almost 500K.

https://stats.cfldb.ca/league/cfl/attendance/2016/

I also think the NHL is a different animal than the CFL and would garner even more support. BUT the sticking point would be the cost of season tickets and single game tickets, which in turn may drive down support. Plus there may not be as much corporate support (unsure how our industries stack up) and also distribution of wealth in Saskatchewan.

That comparison doesn't hold any water at all. It is 10 games per year at about $45 compared to 45 games at about $100.

 

[tacogeoff]

That comparison doesn't hold any water at all. It is 10 games per year at about $45 compared to 45 games at about $100.

ugh.....that's what I wrote in my second paragraph

the cost of season tickets and single game tickets may drive down support.

 

[Hammer Slammer]

It was more like:

"Gary, you're getting texts? I see. Well, I'm in a traffic jam on Portage avenue, people in Jets jerseys are running wild in the streets, there's a Go Jets Go chant going on all around me, and I haven't moved a foot in the last ten minutes".

I know there was video footage of Bettman at the moment he got the initial texts of the leaks and his reaction was precious. Does anyone know where that clip is?



m.

 

[Guardian17]

I remember listening to Hustler on the internet when the news broke.

http://illegalcurve.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/globe-interview.mp3

And watching the craziness at Portage and Main.

 

[Hockeyholic]

How big are the Jets in Winnipeg? Meaning in terms of newspaper traffic, airwaves, bars, vs blue bombers?

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

How big are the Jets in Winnipeg? Meaning in terms of newspaper traffic, airwaves, bars, vs blue bombers?

In a word: Dominant.

 

[TheDeuce]

In a word: Dominant.

Not really imho. The seasons don't overlap by much so I'd say the coverage per game is roughly equivalent. In the fall I'd wager that the number of column inches per game is similar even with both teams being covered.

Of course there's the annual quiet stretch between the end of a Jets non-playoff season and the beginning of a Bombers non-playoff season where they use the draft / Bomber training camp / free agency as filler.



m.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Not really imho. The seasons don't overlap by much so I'd say the coverage per game is roughly equivalent. In the fall I'd wager that the number of column inches per game is similar even with both teams being covered.

Of course there's the annual quiet stretch between the end of a Jets non-playoff season and the beginning of a Bombers non-playoff season where they use the draft / Bomber training camp / free agency as filler.



m.

If the Jets and Bombers went one on one the bombers would be crushed.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Not really imho. The seasons don't overlap by much so I'd say the coverage per game is roughly equivalent. In the fall I'd wager that the number of column inches per game is similar even with both teams being covered.

Of course there's the annual quiet stretch between the end of a Jets non-playoff season and the beginning of a Bombers non-playoff season where they use the draft / Bomber training camp / free agency as filler.



m.

Just look at team associated licence plates. Does MPI release those numbers?

 

[TheDeuce]

If the Jets and Bombers went one on one the bombers would be crushed.

Grab a newspaper when both teams are playing on a given evening. The coverage, if not equal, certainly isn't "dominant". Dominant is the comparison between Jets and Goldeyes coverage.




m.