Confirmed with Link: Wings sign Frans Nielsen 6 years 5.25m/yr

[Inspiration]

You can't predict who will decline and who won't.

Of course there is a possibility. Injuries are usually the only reason why somebody will regress. Ericsson has reported hip problems and Jimmy Howard started regressing after his continuous groin problems.

When Holland signed those guys, they were healthy. Problems came after. You canöt predict will the problems come or not. Rafalski was healthy as anyone until Anaheim guys did almost murderous hit at 2009 playoff series. He retired because he was scared out his back. Before that he was fine.

I agree with your point here, but it's worth pointing out that Rafalski's problems related to his knee. He struggled with knee issues throughout the 2010-2011 season and called it quits after that year. It was his 2014 comeback attempt that was halted by back issues.

It's probably not a promising sign for Kronwall that we've already seen two recent examples in Rafalski and Cleary of players in their mid-30s who went through serious knee issues and never made it back to their previous form.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I'd trust 100% for our management. Toronto is doing it in "our way" currently, if we would do it. Buffalo did also well, until Tim Murray started doing those "impact" trades. I think they did go a little bit on wrong direction.. like E.Kane has more of problem for them.

It's very nice to do as a manger, but man, fans will hate losing, no matter what. And young players learn bad habits when losing. You lose some potential. Losing environment pushes great talents towards mediocrity and winning environment pushes mediocre talents towards greatness. And great potential will reach greatness.

Do you think fans enjoy being a middling team, just making the playoffs, and then getting bounced in the first round?

I think fans would prefer to see a team with an actual direction than one that might win one or two playoff games then get knocked out anyway.

I liked the former Boston way, they did rebuild on the fly, sucked for 1 season between 2 good seasons, and picked high one guy. Then back up. Solid depth drafting all the time. Don't know about the Sweeney days now.

We just haven't had that bad season. I mean totally bad just with injuries, and dropping behind 30 points in the standings even though the core is good. Then a minor firesale and deadline, and high pick next draft, and back on the upper class on the standings.

What I'm really against, you just don't force for a rebuild before the season as a plan. I undrestand it if the season goes bad, then mini-tank. But before the season, never ever. Built the best possible roster. Always built best possible roster, but if that bad season will happen, then you get your luck and draft high.

When only option and set stardard is to win, be as good as possible, it will be the stardard for guys like Larkin. We do whatever it takes to win hockey games. At Edmonton Oilers, that uncertainty before the season created too much pressure for young players and ruined them. Sam Gagner is a mess and Taylor Hall is still playing junior hockey with NHL tools etc. Yakupov.

You can't just look at it on a season by season basis. Signing Nielson to a 6 year contract that takes him to 38 doesn't help the team long term, it focuses on the "omg we have cap space we need a center better sign this free agent because right now it makes us a bit better!" This team doesn't have the stones to compete. Kronwall and Zetterberg are getting older and continue to get worse, we have only two young players with the potential to be elite, no top-pairing defensemen, and a bunch of middling guys. That is not a fun team to watch, it isn't going to win us a cup, and the more long-term deals we sign to average players (see: Helm) the longer this team is going to be in the mediocre stage before we have to do a full rebuild anyway.

 

[InjuredChoker]

And will still likely be productive.

define ''productive''.

and based on what is he still likely going to be productive. again, depending on definition. i could see 30-35 points for him at that age with passable two-way play if he still gets power play time.

 

[Gyldenlove]

I am totally biased here so fair warning. I am super stoked about finally having a Dane wearing the winged wheel.

It is certainly a big contract for a guy who may only really play up to it for 3 years. On the other hand this is a pre-35 contract so he can retire and take the cap hit away if he gets injured or worn down.

In terms of near future salary cap ramafications there is no fallout from this contract. For no part of the next 2 seasons will this contract hamstring the teams ability to be active in free agency or resign their own players.

Nielsen is by all acounts well liked, his skillset is very versatile and I think in a number of key ways he can replace a lot (not all) of what Datsyuk did for this team. He is a pass-first playmaker with a strong emphasis on defense, he is not a physical player but is a strong skater to compensate for his size. In terms of line combinations he is a guy you could put with Abdelkader and Nyquist or he could fit with Mantha and Tatar.

 

[Dotter]

Nielsen has a 5.25M hit. The difference between 7 and 5.25 is 1.75. Miller was signed for a 1M and Ott for 800k.

There's your extra space.

And all it cost you was not signing 2 redundant, dime a dozen, utterly replaceable players who will likely be healthy scratches or sent down at some point during the season.

He's going to be 37, 38 in those last 2 years. His average P/GP since 2009 is 0.59. That's about ~48 points a season. Not bad. But that's going to decline heavily as he reaches 37 and 38 if he's anything like most players. Even Datsyuk's and Zetterberg's production took big hits. So what do you think he'll be putting up in 4-6 years? I think we'll be lucky if he's getting 40 points a year. He'll probably even get a reduced role like most players do as they get older. Maybe we're looking at 30-35 points a season. That is if he plays the whole time and doesn't start getting injured as he gets older, again, like a lot of other players tend to do.

So what's "productive" to you? That's Helm level production.

His point scoring will drop. But he'll still PK, bring leadership, still score some points. And by then the next waive of kids should be making up for his loss of total point production.

Maybe he gets traded, maybe expansion draft pickup, maybe he retires, maybe he goes on LTIR. Too many variables in the nu: nhl to worry about 6 years from now.

 

[Frk It]

I understand why this move was made. I think he is a good player.

But I don't like how this likely prolongs Larkin's transition to center, and I also think he is somewhat redundant for what we have in the top 6 from a fit perspective.

 

[DetroitRed]

I think New York got rid of him just as he was getting old and slowing down. I'm not too sure he'll be capable of playing at the NHL level five years from now, through the end of his contract with Detroit. However, thanks to the Wings, he wont have to worry that he isn't getting paid enough, and that's an understatement. This is just the latest part of the trend where the Wings handcuff themselves.They would have been further ahead in the long run to have not signed anybody. Mismanagement.

The two short-term deals they made are partially stomach-able as long as we don't start hearing "loyalty" BS when its time for them to go. This one is the worst of the three signings.

 

[Ingvar]

I understand why this move was made. I think he is a good player.

But I don't like how this likely prolongs Larkin's transition to center, and I also think he is somewhat redundant for what we have in the top 6 from a fit perspective.

I strongly disagree. When Larkin is finally 1C (hopefully), Z will be 3C at best. 2C is still an empty slot. Hoping that AA or Svech will fulfill this position is wishful thinking.

 

[HockeyinHD]

other than the cap hit for the last 2 years is at 5.25, not 1.75.

If you're going to weld yourself to utter pedantism, sure. I kind of hoped the question would provide a little bit of a thought exercise.

Specific to your sort of point, is a 5.25 x 6 cap hit a 'better' one than 7 x 4?

 

[HockeyinHD]

Then we don't sign him. Go with the youth movement, cut our aging veterans where we can, and work towards getting elite talent at the draft and rebuilding.

This "injecting morphine into a dying man" strategy is not going to win us any cups.

I keep saying this: there is no rebuild. Not going to happen. Eschew from thyself the yearning for such, lest ye be irked.

I'm dealing with question based on the reality in which we find ourselves: Detroit is going to try and ice the best team they can, likely indefinitely. Within the framework of reality as we know it, which is the better way to approach UFAs? Overpaying in term, or dollars?

 

[Flowah]

His point scoring will drop. But he'll still PK, bring leadership, still score some points. And by then the next waive of kids should be making up for his loss of total point production.

But you said productive. Now you're admitting he probably won't be productive in the end of his contract.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

I think New York got rid of him just as he was getting old and slowing down.

New York got rid of him by offering him a contract that was too big and for too long.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think New York got rid of him just as he was getting old and slowing down. I'm not too sure he'll be capable of playing at the NHL level five years from now, through the end of his contract with Detroit. However, thanks to the Wings, he wont have to worry that he isn't getting paid enough, and that's an understatement. This is just the latest part of the trend where the Wings handcuff themselves.They would have been further ahead in the long run to have not signed anybody. Mismanagement.

The two short-term deals they made are partially stomach-able as long as we don't start hearing "loyalty" BS when its time for them to go. This one is the worst of the three signings.

The Islanders offered him more money than us and I think rumor is also an additional year...

 

[Dotter]

But you said productive. Now you're admitting he probably won't be productive in the end of his contract.

I still think he'll likely be productive in both point production and intangibles.

 

[Flowah]

I still think he'll likely be productive in both point production and intangibles.

C'mon dude. Be honest about this.

When people say a player is productive they aren't talking about intangibles. No one says Glendening is productive because of the intangibles he brings to the table.

And no one calls a 30 point forward "productive."

 

[Frk It]

I strongly disagree. When Larkin is finally 1C (hopefully), Z will be 3C at best. 2C is still an empty slot. Hoping that AA or Svech will fulfill this position is wishful thinking.

Even if this is true, which I think it is, still prolongs the transition because I don't see him playing top 6 center this season. Maybe not next season either.

 

[chances14]

I agree with your point here, but it's worth pointing out that Rafalski's problems related to his knee. He struggled with knee issues throughout the 2010-2011 season and called it quits after that year. It was his 2014 comeback attempt that was halted by back issues.

It's probably not a promising sign for Kronwall that we've already seen two recent examples in Rafalski and Cleary of players in their mid-30s who went through serious knee issues and never made it back to their previous form.

it was actually a combination of chronic back and knee injuries. but yeah it doesn't look good for kronwall. i will be surprised if he makes it to the end of his contract in 3 years

 

[sean3250]

Even if this is true, which I think it is, still prolongs the transition because I don't see him playing top 6 center this season. Maybe not next season either.

That's ridiculous. If he's gonna play 200+ games on the wing might as well keep him there then. Never mind the terrible mismanagement that would have to take place to allow that to happen. Even Jeff Blashill, who is not a good coach, should know that Larkin deserves Top 6C duties.

The last thing this team needs to do is take a potential top 6C and never play him there.

 

[InjuredChoker]

If you're going to weld yourself to utter pedantism, sure. I kind of hoped the question would provide a little bit of a thought exercise.

Specific to your sort of point, is a 5.25 x 6 cap hit a 'better' one than 7 x 4?

yeah, it's me being pedant pointing out he's cap hit is 5.25 for the duration of his deal.

both are bad. it's like asking is it better to have brian lashoff or ryan sproul on wings top pairing next season. kind of. sort of.

i'd have taken the shorter deal. which kind of points out how ridiculous this contract is. 7 mil for solid 2nd line C? someone who produced no more points 5on5 than darren helm? he has 42 points there the past two seasons, 22 last season, 20 the year before. sheahan has 41. same as järnkrok. sam gagner has 40, in 25 games less. i think hes still unsigned.

those 42 points 5on5 have him ranked tied for 200th among all players the past two seasons. 6x5.25 or 4x7 for that is kind of awful. he brings more than points on 5on5 and more than just overall points but not by that much.

and it's probably going to get even worse from here. the question is just how soon.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I keep saying this: there is no rebuild. Not going to happen. Eschew from thyself the yearning for such, lest ye be irked.

I'm dealing with question based on the reality in which we find ourselves: Detroit is going to try and ice the best team they can, likely indefinitely. Within the framework of reality as we know it, which is the better way to approach UFAs? Overpaying in term, or dollars?

I'm saying that is a bad management decision. Just because they aren't doing what I think they should be doing doesn't mean I have to shut up and accept it as a fan.

The answer if the player is not going to be beneficial in winning a cup is neither. This signing does not make us a contender, or even put us in the conversation. The team has too many holes.

 

[DetroitRed]

He wont be worth what Detroit is paying him in any year of his contract. So term is not the only problem.

They try so hard to tank, year after year, but scouting keeps messing them up.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I understand why this move was made. I think he is a good player.

But I don't like how this likely prolongs Larkin's transition to center, and I also think he is somewhat redundant for what we have in the top 6 from a fit perspective.

I think a lot of this comes down to Zetterberg, and if he can set aside the ego as he ages and accept a smaller role. He's not the player he used to be, especially in terms of speed and positioning. But that might be hard to come to grips with for a guy who's used to doing everything.

 

[Konnan511]

50 point, two-way center who rarely takes penalties for a smidgen over 5mil a season. I'm pretty happy with this deal.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Even if this is true, which I think it is, still prolongs the transition because I don't see him playing top 6 center this season. Maybe not next season either.

Sounds like the plan is to have Larkin as 1C and Nielsen as 2C.

 

[dragonballgtz]

Wasted money on a player that already peaked and by Holland's own philosophy is in the last year of his prime.