Confirmed with Link: Wings acquire C Mitchell Stephens from TB

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Retire91

Stevey Y you our Guy
May 31, 2010
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Nielsen - Larkin - Vrana
Fabbri - Suter - Bertuzzi
Zadina - Rasmussen - Gagner
Erne - Stephens - Namestnikov
(Smith)

Tie goes to the veteran. Berggren-Veleno-Raymond as Griffins 1st line.

That is a nice hypothetical look and the Nielsen problem takes care of itself next offseason and
Granger, Namestnikov also have to earn another contract after next season and are not playing above their heads in the mean time. If the D shapes up this year, Bertuzzi can stay healthy and Larkin shakes off this belated sophomore slump I think we'll still be a bottom but not quite as bottom as we have been. I would say Yzerman has done a pretty great job so far. If development stays on course we are really only Raymond and a legit number 1 C away from competing.

I expect Yzerman will keep Erne's contract within reason.
 
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TheOctopusKid

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Sep 24, 2010
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Yzerman and Holland have similarities because good GMs have similarities. Yzerman learned the GM game from Kenny. He'd be the first to tell you that. Holland got complacent and safe and the very few risks he did take were longshot risks with no chances of success.

Mmm... I think there might be another scenario. Like with any leadership in an organization, there people who have the talent, ability, and disposition but might also just flat out be the wrong person at that time.

That is - being an electric, charismatic, and visionary business leader in a startup culture is critical for attracting talent and building investors, developing brand, etc but those things typically coincide with ambition, big picture thinking, etc. etc. which may not be the best leader for a Fortune 500 Company that is service oriented and looking to improve in quality and delivery through supply line logistics. Does it make that guy a bad leader? No, it makes him a bad fit.

Kenny showed really a steady, strong, and careful hand in finding serviceable veterans to reasonable deals to complement a core of talented players. He was consistent, reliable, and often built a team and familial atmosphere that most established and aging vets appreciated, and he took care of the Detroit Family (for good or for bad), by giving their guys an extra year or a little more money. That kind of stuff went far to attracting the massive parade of veterans looking for that last deal to come and play for a solid, professional org. He was the right guy to keep the ship going exactly for the fact he was risk adverse and favored the veteran and was congenial. He was patient, risk adverse, and let the opportunities come to him.

He was entirely the wrong guy when it core was aging and falling down, to make the big bold, imaginative moves we needed to rebuild on the fly. He couldn't sell big name free agents in their prime (post-cap) on coming here and struck out a number of times. He struggled to keep up with the mounting deficit of talent and just couldn't think of the moves, or execute them. His patient, steady, and often risk adverse method worked against him in a big way, often signing players he knew to contracts too big than they were worth, and chosing aging veterans to plug holes because that's all he could attract and felt comfortable with. Again, still a good GM, just the wrong GM for this job. The situation did not play to his strengths of patient, loyalty, etc. etc. and often made it worse.

One of the things I feel so good about with Yzerman - is literally his hallmark, the thing he's known for, is making big moves. For good or for bad, Yzerman makes bold moves and he built a team up (yes yes, they had Stamkos and Hedman in the bag at that point), but he built a team and has proven he can architect a champion which that really wasn't Kenny's skill set. Yzerman is bold, efficient, and decisive. He is willing to walk from players who aren't part of the plans and doesn't let it drag of, he isn't afraid to move the best player in regardless of age - too old or too young - and has shown those same chops in Detroit so far.
 
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Hen Kolland

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Feb 22, 2018
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Because if there wasn't some overreaching, critical hot take attached to every minor transaction, what are we doing with our lives?

That was an honest question for MBH as opposed to my normal, leading questions for him.

Like there’s nothing wrong with trusting what you know. There’s a vision that Yzerman has for the needs of the team, there’s a vision that Yzerman has of Stephens and how he would fit. He’s not going to have the same visibility to other guys who haven’t had their real shot yet. It’s the same reason that you see NFL teams recycle the same players. I mean the Lions quite literally had “Flu Season”. How many times can you cut and bring back Andre Fluellen in a career?
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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That was an honest question for MBH as opposed to my normal, leading questions for him.

Like there’s nothing wrong with trusting what you know. There’s a vision that Yzerman has for the needs of the team, there’s a vision that Yzerman has of Stephens and how he would fit. He’s not going to have the same visibility to other guys who haven’t had their real shot yet. It’s the same reason that you see NFL teams recycle the same players. I mean the Lions quite literally had “Flu Season”. How many times can you cut and bring back Andre Fluellen in a career?

Well, I thought it was a bit of a reach we're mucking up this thread with Holland comparisons over a 6th round pick transaction.

But to your greater point...

I mean agreed completely. If you liked a guy once, hey, no kidding you'll like him again. Even in a silly, no stakes environment like fantasy football/hockey I always have a handful of guys I keep grabbing off waivers when injuries hit. Known quantities that one can rely on have value.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
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Mmm... I think there might be another scenario. Like with any leadership in an organization, there people who have the talent, ability, and disposition but might also just flat out be the wrong person at that time.

That is - being an electric, charismatic, and visionary business leader in a startup culture is critical for attracting talent and building investors, developing brand, etc but those things typically coincide with ambition, big picture thinking, etc. etc. which may not be the best leader for a Fortune 500 Company that is service oriented and looking to improve in quality and delivery through supply line logistics. Does it make that guy a bad leader? No, it makes him a bad fit.

Kenny showed really a steady, strong, and careful hand in finding serviceable veterans to reasonable deals to complement a core of talented players. He was consistent, reliable, and often built a team and familial atmosphere that most established and aging vets appreciated, and he took care of the Detroit Family (for good or for bad), by giving their guys an extra year or a little more money. That kind of stuff went far to attracting the massive parade of veterans looking for that last deal to come and play for a solid, professional org. He was the right guy to keep the ship going exactly for the fact he was risk adverse and favored the veteran and was congenial. He was patient, risk adverse, and let the opportunities come to him.

He was entirely the wrong guy when it core was aging and falling down, to make the big bold, imaginative moves we needed to rebuild on the fly. He couldn't sell big name free agents in their prime (post-cap) on coming here and struck out a number of times. He struggled to keep up with the mounting deficit of talent and just couldn't think of the moves, or execute them. His patient, steady, and often risk adverse method worked against him in a big way, often signing players he knew to contracts too big than they were worth, and chosing aging veterans to plug holes because that's all he could attract and felt comfortable with. Again, still a good GM, just the wrong GM for this job. The situation did not play to his strengths of patient, loyalty, etc. etc. and often made it worse.

One of the things I feel so good about with Yzerman - is literally his hallmark, the thing he's known for, is making big moves. For good or for bad, Yzerman makes bold moves and he built a team up (yes yes, they had Stamkos and Hedman in the bag at that point), but he built a team and has proven he can architect a champion which that really wasn't Kenny's skill set. Yzerman is bold, efficient, and decisive. He is willing to walk from players who aren't part of the plans and doesn't let it drag of, he isn't afraid to move the best player in regardless of age - too old or too young - and has shown those same chops in Detroit so far.

I don't see how you're disagreeing with me. Holland was a very good GM. He got too deep into trying to maintain everything, had some garden variety bad luck from some safe moves and made one or two risky moves that were medium risk, low upside.

Holland was bold in the early 2000s. He did a fabulous job picking up cheapy pickups that did huge things for him post lockout. But he got to the 2010s and he just started making bleh moves.

But no, the issue was that he got so zoned in on "I can't lose a trade if I want us to keep going" that he didn't make a move to get us a good D while we could have maybe salvaged the mid 2010s prior to Z and Datsyuk dying. Each offer out there was probably the right move to turn down... but you had to make some kind of move.
 

lilidk

Registered User
Mar 4, 2008
9,872
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Much of same aged forwards now in the core.

Larkin 25
Vrana 25
Bertuzzi 26
Suter 25
Fabbri 25
Erne 26
Stephens 24
You believe 24 years old ,who played whopping 45 NHL games is a core Red Wings? Both Zadina and Rasmussen have more games
 
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Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
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It's only a 6th, but did we really need to spend any draft capital on a potential 4th liner? Yzerman knows best, I guess.

C, RHS, 190lbs/5'11", 24yo ok.


Chase Pearson - bigger, taller (+ possible reach), 6mos. younger, had a solid yr. in GR. Thought he deserved a 5 game+ look.


Lightning acquire 2022 sixth round draft pick from Detroit

It's almost like we'd be using draft capital in the 6th round to get a potential 4th liner. Mitchell Stephens is 24 anyway. He's not like Justin Abdelkader who should be fired into the sun.
 

TheOctopusKid

Registered User
Sep 24, 2010
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I don't see how you're disagreeing with me. Holland was a very good GM. He got too deep into trying to maintain everything, had some garden variety bad luck from some safe moves and made one or two risky moves that were medium risk, low upside.

Holland was bold in the early 2000s. He did a fabulous job picking up cheapy pickups that did huge things for him post lockout. But he got to the 2010s and he just started making bleh moves.

But no, the issue was that he got so zoned in on "I can't lose a trade if I want us to keep going" that he didn't make a move to get us a good D while we could have maybe salvaged the mid 2010s prior to Z and Datsyuk dying. Each offer out there was probably the right move to turn down... but you had to make some kind of move.

Oh, I wasn't disagreeing. I was expanding on your original thought.
 

Oddbob

Registered User
Jan 21, 2016
15,940
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We just threw away a lottery ticket; straight in the bin! This 6th rounder could become that 5th rounder who becomes that 7th rounder who eventually becomes that 3rd rounder who is eventually packaged for that Art Ross Vezina Norris Winning goalcentceman.
 

NickH8

Registered User
Jul 3, 2015
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The way I see it:
Vrana - Larkin - Zadina
Fabbri - Suter - Bertuzzi
Erne - Rasmussen - Namestnikov
Smith - Stephens - Gagner
Nielsen
Nielsen is guaranteed scratch since it's stupid to keep a kid on the roster just to sit. Stephens and Gagner are insurance pieces in case Veleno, Raymond, Berggren, and Pearson are all not quite ready yet.
Gagner's spot up for grabs by Raymond and Berggren (if they take this spot they play 3rd line, Vlad moves down to 4th)
Stephen's spot up for grabs by Veleno and Pearson
Smith I think has an inside track to the 4LW spot because he brings a physical forechecking game the other 4 don't, although it's entirely possible his spot gets grabbed as well.
 
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Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
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I thought this was the case but I didn't want to speak for you. For what it's worth, I thought you did a great job taking his post and adding all that meat to the bones. It's really nice to see thoughtful replies that aren't tied to a pissing contest.

Yes. My apologies to @TheOctopusKid. I'm so used to it being attacked and me called a dum-dum head that my mind defaulted to that way.
 

TheOctopusKid

Registered User
Sep 24, 2010
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Yes. My apologies to @TheOctopusKid. I'm so used to it being attacked and me called a dum-dum head that my mind defaulted to that way.

No need to apologize. I didn't take your response as an attack at all. More that I didn't make my point clear.

It's not your fault, it's the nature of the internet. When I get replies from names I don't recognize my first instinct is, "Oh no what did I say now?" :laugh:

And I have been here for eleven years! Silently stalking longer than that actually. And was an active poster on letsgowings for a long time before that...but no, I don't typically post all that much. Just find myself posting a lot more lately because I'm really excited about the Wings again - feel like there is something special happening
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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And I have been here for eleven years! Silently stalking longer than that actually. And was an active poster on letsgowings for a long time before that...but no, I don't typically post all that much. Just find myself posting a lot more lately because I'm really excited about the Wings again - feel like there is something special happening

Oh I recognize you, no worries! You're a savvy vet here. If there was a tie, it would definitely go to you.

Glad to have you posting more, though, for real.
 
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