Windsor Spitfires 2020 Offseason Thread (Part 3)

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windsor7

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See, to me, this sounds very much like "we should have done this because now look at us..." Which is related to COVID; if that wasn't around, this team may have been just fine. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but that's how it reads to me.

There were pros and cons to all of the possibilities at the deadline, even without COVID. Yes, it sucks that we've lost a season and a bit, but this is how life goes right now. Who knows what'll happen when it returns...

Covid a excuse now?
 

RayzorIsDull

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I'm well aware that you guys wanted them to sell at the deadline. That doesn't mean I'm about to change my mind on this. Props for the effort but it's not happening.

Well of course not. Just like Faub and I realize you don't have an understanding of revisionist history. My opinion of selling had nothing to do with what your opinion would be or changing your mind.

You just said earlier when you get back to the arena you don't care what happens in the games. If that's the case you shouldn't even participate in discussions because you have set your cover up.
 

OHLTG

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You just said earlier when you get back to the arena you don't care what happens in the games. If that's the case you shouldn't even participate in discussions because you have set your cover up.

I said when they return to play, I won't care if it's a rebuild or contention. I'll be happy to be at the rink and I'd imagine most would be in the same boat. If the effort isn't there or they make an odd decision, I'm going to question it. I just don't care which approach they take to the roster given most plans are thrown out the window.

Some of these people are hilarious... they automatically think that just because a deal wasn't done that means inaction. Meanwhile, if a deal was done for little return they would be screaming. Deals get talked about, but in the end if it's not the right deal you don't pull the trigger. It's ridiculous to make a trade "just because"

No GM is going to sit there and ignore the phones during the deadline. Calls and negotiations are made. If you're offered less than what you feel a player is worth or something that's going to set the room back, you don't pull the trigger. It's pretty simple. This is what happens when Rychel makes a ton of deadline deals every season; anything less is considered inactive.
 
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RayzorIsDull

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I'm not sure why you think "canvassing" potential buyers is not a good look? I mean every business everywhere canvasses anyone they can to buy what they are selling. Sports is based on profit from TV sales rights that sell advertising spots. I have a for sale sign on my lawn - I'm canvassing anyone I can to buy my house. Savages are business people, they will do everything they can to sell something they have wanted to sell for a couple of years now. Them trying to sell has been common knowledge for a couple of years. Glad to hear they are trying to sell ( canvas buyers), I mean if they don't want the team, do what you can to find a buyer so everyone can move on from this.

Trying to sell in the middle of the pandemic isn't going to maximize your profit. Canvassing people as in going right up to people like Brian Rolston isn't going get the job done though either. I just recently sold my house I let a real estate agency take care of that and set things up because those people are great at what they do.

Do you really trust the Savage brothers to do the right thing though? They are the same ones that wanted to sell to Parekh and that group didn't have the money. If you're selling something you at least want to have a backup plan and maybe they did but after Parekh nothing came to fruition.

My disappointment just comes from the current ownership will more than likely have more money than any incoming buyer. Like you said this is a business and I hope that any future owner has deeper pockets than the current owners because their deep pockets currently hasn't helped the organization to date.
 

Teflon

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Let’s be clear Rayzor. Dentist group had the money. OHL stepped in and said your not owning a team in this league. That said this ownership is in way over their heads. If they were smart they’d hire a group to help advise and shop the team.
 

member 71782

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See, to me, this sounds very much like "we should have done this because now look at us..." Which is related to COVID; if that wasn't around, this team may have been just fine. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but that's how it reads to me.

There were pros and cons to all of the possibilities at the deadline, even without COVID. Yes, it sucks that we've lost a season and a bit, but this is how life goes right now. Who knows what'll happen when it returns...

To someone who had no clue of the conversations that went on, and wanted to cherry pick part of what was posted it may sound like revisionist history but you were/are fully aware of the conversations and debates that went on here so for you to suggest that myself or anyone else who brought that point throughout most of last season, starting long before the deadline are being revisionist about things would be completely misrepresenting what has been debated here. It almost seems like you're doing what others accuse Windsor7 of doing at times, just starting arguments for the sake of having an argument. You know you'll get the pushback from some on here so you keep pushing out things that'll get people bickering back and forth. No problem, I like to argue and will gladly respond.

Some of these people are hilarious... they automatically think that just because a deal wasn't done that means inaction. Meanwhile, if a deal was done for little return they would be screaming. Deals get talked about, but in the end if it's not the right deal you don't pull the trigger. It's ridiculous to make a trade "just because"

Actually most of the reasons people are getting upset about how deals or lack of them has been handled is simply based on what's been said publicly by Bowler and the organization.

They want to build through the draft, which is fine, become known for being loyal to players instead of maximizing value to build the team which they've shown in down years the last few seasons and add a piece or two if their in a position to contend which so far they haven't been in. In other words they appear to be hoping to get their draft board back to having 15 Spitfire picks, nothing extra, sign 3 players from each draft, it's all they've done for a few seasons now and keep the same basic line up they had the year before only replacing whoever graduates with cheap warm bodies which is all they've done for a few seasons now.

In other words no plan to build a team capable of competing at the top of the league and leaving the on ice product in the hands of a coach who has shown no ability to develop top players and preferring to run with vets who have shown a mid level talent potential.

Two years ago, could have moved on from Boka, Purbo and Stevenson but since they were kept they were put in roles they didn't have the skill level for while their top young players saw their minutes drop.

Last year to believe they couldn't get very good returns for Angle, Douglas, Corcoran and Afanasyev would be extremely hard to believe yet when the team was doing well they gave no indication they were going to add and when the team started playing as expected, a month before the deadline they had no inclination to move pieces to maximize value and continue building towards the future. That also means players who may be graduating would get no opportunity to try to win a championship. And no, moving them for any return was never suggested or condoned by anyone but simply holding onto players for the sake of keeping them around, especially when a couple of them are signed and AHL eligible the following season when you had about a .500 record for the month leading up to the deadline wasn't doing anyone any favours. You don't give them away for free but you don't hold them just for the sake of holding them. I would guess there some decent offers on those four players. They weren't top tier players in the league but they were very good players who could contribute in anyone's top 6/top 4 and would come at a very good price that both sides would be happy with.

Instead we saw potential assets left on the table, with more assets spent in the offseason to acquire a player with local/organization connections who hasn't shown much yet at a fairly high price for what he's shown up until now to fill the holes likely left by at least one of those graduating players.

This of course depletes the draft board even more and with what appears to be an inability to get players to camp the last couple of years, only one American draft pick reporting last year from the previous couple of drafts and not a flyer pick either this looks to be a time, whenever the season starts where remaining assets will be used to fill out the roster.

I'm not sure why you think "canvassing" potential buyers is not a good look? I mean every business everywhere canvasses anyone they can to buy what they are selling. Sports is based on profit from TV sales rights that sell advertising spots. I have a for sale sign on my lawn - I'm canvassing anyone I can to buy my house. Savages are business people, they will do everything they can to sell something they have wanted to sell for a couple of years now. Them trying to sell has been common knowledge for a couple of years. Glad to hear they are trying to sell ( canvas buyers), I mean if they don't want the team, do what you can to find a buyer so everyone can move on from this.

I would think when you have a property that is of limited supply cold calling people to see if they are interested would present a picture of desperation. Limited supply should infer it has a certain value and a certain level of interest from multiple parties. If you need to cold call people to see if they want to buy it as the party being called I would be leery of what's being sold. That doesn't mean they can't let it be known in a general way that they would be willing to sell if the right offer were to come around, of course there's ways to do that. I'm sure most owners get interest regularly, with right now maybe being a bit of an exception. All they would do is hear out any offers and if one is in the range they are looking for they would show some interest and that would get through the grapevine.

Like I said before if there's anything to this, especially with them contacting Rolston I would hope it is based on inquiries made by outside parties and they are simply circling back to gauge how much interest Rolston would have. If they simply contacted him I can't see it going anywhere unless they are willing to come in under what they were looking for. If Rolston was looking for a stake in a team with the option to takeover down the road then this makes sense but any other way where it's the Savages just making calls it doesn't. I hope there's something to this, this group doesn't seem to know what this business requires to be successful so hopefully someone who understands what's involved in owning a sports franchise is going to come i one day and get things straightened out.
 

OHLTG

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It almost seems like you're doing what others accuse Windsor7 of doing at times, just starting arguments for the sake of having an argument.

Nope, sorry. I have zero use for that. If I misunderstand something, so be it, but I see enough people stirring on social media as it is.
 
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Teflon

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Bowler has his hands tied, there may have been deals out there but unless they are fleecing someone the answer is no for ownership. I’m frankly disappointed in Bowler. Him agreeing to run it this way is not going to read well on his resume!! My info tells me he’s not allowed to incur any cost or fees without approval from ownership. There’s far more to it but that’s the gist. Let me be clear. This league is in trouble, not dire straights, yet. but if things don’t go very well you may see some teams in a bad spot. Branch has become a hindrance, he’s not keeping up with changing times. Teams will be hard to move. Windsor has a solid city and is hockey rich in history. Newer arena and other intangibles. It may be easier to move but prices are not going to be favourable for current owners. Also one bright spot, TL contract is up very shortly!!!
 

TheGremlin

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I guess since some feel it isn’t good having Germany in this tournament we might as well get rid of the Swiss and Slovakia since they can’t beat the Germans. Who thought the Sweds would only get 4 goals on the Austrian team?
 

OHLTG

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I guess since some feel it isn’t good having Germany in this tournament we might as well get rid of the Swiss and Slovakia since they can’t beat the Germans. Who thought the Sweds would only get 4 goals on the Austrian team?

This is one thing I love about the tournament - you just never know.
 
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windsor7

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I guess since some feel it isn’t good having Germany in this tournament we might as well get rid of the Swiss and Slovakia since they can’t beat the Germans. Who thought the Sweds would only get 4 goals on the Austrian team?

Real tournament starts soon....
 

RayzorIsDull

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I guess since some feel it isn’t good having Germany in this tournament we might as well get rid of the Swiss and Slovakia since they can’t beat the Germans. Who thought the Sweds would only get 4 goals on the Austrian team?

I am good with a 6 or 8 team tournament. Realistically there are only 5 teams that even have a shot at winning the WJ's Canada/Russia/USA/Sweden/Finland. Sweden wins a lot of games but even they have only only 2 golds in the last 40 years I believe. Nice for Germany to get a regulation W it doesn't mean Germany/Slovakia/Austria/Swiss should be there. Fortunately for those countries or unfortunately for us there is no relegation next year. So there's no where to go but up for those countries.
 

RayzorIsDull

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Bowler has his hands tied, there may have been deals out there but unless they are fleecing someone the answer is no for ownership. I’m frankly disappointed in Bowler. Him agreeing to run it this way is not going to read well on his resume!! My info tells me he’s not allowed to incur any cost or fees without approval from ownership. There’s far more to it but that’s the gist. Let me be clear. This league is in trouble, not dire straights, yet. but if things don’t go very well you may see some teams in a bad spot. Branch has become a hindrance, he’s not keeping up with changing times. Teams will be hard to move. Windsor has a solid city and is hockey rich in history. Newer arena and other intangibles. It may be easier to move but prices are not going to be favourable for current owners. Also one bright spot, TL contract is up very shortly!!!

I don't always agree with you but I do agree with you that the Savage brothers will still be here for another couple years. Now isn't the time to sell a team unless the selling party is willing to accept less than what they originally wanted for said team. The best case scenario is that the Savage's do invest in this team the next couple years because a successful team will increase the value of the franchise. I would be happy if Letowski didn't return but if he got any type of extension it would probably signal what the Savage brothers intentions are. I agree the league is in trouble the seeds were planted long before covid only that covid shed a bright light on them now. This is when you can separate the wheat from the chaff. The smart organizations will continue to do well. The average ones some will still be ok, some will falter. The poor organizations probably can't overcome this.
 

aresknights

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I am good with a 6 or 8 team tournament. Realistically there are only 5 teams that even have a shot at winning the WJ's Canada/Russia/USA/Sweden/Finland. Sweden wins a lot of games but even they have only only 2 golds in the last 40 years I believe. Nice for Germany to get a regulation W it doesn't mean Germany/Slovakia/Austria/Swiss should be there. Fortunately for those countries or unfortunately for us there is no relegation next year. So there's no where to go but up for those countries.

Maybe only 5 teams have a chance to win the tourney in any given year........but a 5 team tourney would not help develop the game world wide. Teams in the bottom 5, country programs and the NHL can benefit financially and developmentally from participating in the WJC. Even the weaker teams traditionally have sent stars to the NHL and maybe they inspire a kid in the next generation by them watching the game played by teens on a world stage. Germany is a good example of that. Im sure that countries hockey fans and esp. the youth love it and maybe sill be inspired.
The social benefit of being there is also a positive for countries participating.

Lets cut NCAA down to 20/10/5 teams competing for a D1 championship in football, hockey n BBall cause realistically that's all that got a shot at winning?
 

windsor7

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I am good with a 6 or 8 team tournament. Realistically there are only 5 teams that even have a shot at winning the WJ's Canada/Russia/USA/Sweden/Finland. Sweden wins a lot of games but even they have only only 2 golds in the last 40 years I believe. Nice for Germany to get a regulation W it doesn't mean Germany/Slovakia/Austria/Swiss should be there. Fortunately for those countries or unfortunately for us there is no relegation next year. So there's no where to go but up for those countries.

Germany slid into tournament....
 

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
I am good with a 6 or 8 team tournament. Realistically there are only 5 teams that even have a shot at winning the WJ's Canada/Russia/USA/Sweden/Finland. Sweden wins a lot of games but even they have only only 2 golds in the last 40 years I believe. Nice for Germany to get a regulation W it doesn't mean Germany/Slovakia/Austria/Swiss should be there. Fortunately for those countries or unfortunately for us there is no relegation next year. So there's no where to go but up for those countries.

Read the thread..... it's not about you.

 

RayzorIsDull

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Maybe only 5 teams have a chance to win the tourney in any given year........but a 5 team tourney would not help develop the game world wide. Teams in the bottom 5, country programs and the NHL can benefit financially and developmentally from participating in the WJC. Even the weaker teams traditionally have sent stars to the NHL and maybe they inspire a kid in the next generation by them watching the game played by teens on a world stage. Germany is a good example of that. Im sure that countries hockey fans and esp. the youth love it and maybe sill be inspired.
The social benefit of being there is also a positive for countries participating.

Lets cut NCAA down to 20/10/5 teams competing for a D1 championship in football, hockey n BBall cause realistically that's all that got a shot at winning?

I do agree with you about the NHL benefitting and individual players. I am speaking of the ability to compete for the championship. There has been this discussion for decades about the format. I just look that it hasn't elevated these countries to win a championship.


The semi finals for football are rarely competitive and that sucks for the sport. The championship games have been good. I can't tell you how to fix football. Hockey is terrific in the last 10 years you have had Yale/Princeton/Union all win the national championship so there is absolute parity in that regard. Over the last 7 years 17 different schools have appeared in the frozen four which is 27% of all D1 hockey programs. Basketball is a made for television event where the gestapo receives 1.2 billion dollars a year. That is regardless of what schools are in the final four
 

Teflon

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Hell I’d expand the number of teams! It’s about the experience for most. So much can be learned in that kind of tourney! Remember jr hockey isn’t just about kids going to the pros it teaches a great number of lessons those players use for their entire lives. After being a part of hockey for decades I can firmly state. Kids that played travel sports turn into great adults!! Sure there’s a few problems but at a far less rate then normal. I count my years coaching and being part of teams as some of my best!! Let me be clear, the best thing for Spitfire hockey right now would be the sale of the team to hockey guys with the understanding of jr hockey and the ability to be here long term.
 

OHLTG

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Hell I’d expand the number of teams! It’s about the experience for most. So much can be learned in that kind of tourney! Remember jr hockey isn’t just about kids going to the pros it teaches a great number of lessons those players use for their entire lives. After being a part of hockey for decades I can firmly state. Kids that played travel sports turn into great adults!! Sure there’s a few problems but at a far less rate then normal. I count my years coaching and being part of teams as some of my best!! Let me be clear, the best thing for Spitfire hockey right now would be the sale of the team to hockey guys with the understanding of jr hockey and the ability to be here long term.

How would we react if we were in their spot? You're 17 or 18 (give or take a year) and are asked to play for your country. You may win, you may lose. For two weeks, though, you put on your nations jersey and play against some of the best in the world from your age group. That's something you can't turn down. It's not about the wins-and-losses (for most part), but the experience and the knowledge they'll pick up. Frankly, I'd love to see 12 or more teams involved. Get them all into this and having some fun.
 

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
I do agree with you about the NHL benefitting and individual players. I am speaking of the ability to compete for the championship. There has been this discussion for decades about the format. I just look that it hasn't elevated these countries to win a championship.

Although, the format has actually changed many times since its inception. There was a time when there was no medal round, strictly round robin. Also, it wasn't that long ago that two teams were relegated, now it's only one.

Take a look at Switzerland.. they were always bouncing back and forth between the A tournament and the B tournament, until 1996. Since then they have been relegated only once (and that was one of those years when two teams were sent down) And they have even won a bronze medal. Another thing to look at is the increased competition over the years. The Soviet Union has not turned into Russia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Latvia and Belarus (among others) Czechoslovakia is now Slovakia the Czech Republic, really the only team that has benefitted from the fall of the iron curtain is Germany (In regards to hockey)

heck the USA didn't win their first medal until 1986 (Bronze) Czechoslovakia won 11 medals from 1977 to 1992.. since then Slovakia and the Czech Republic have on a total of 5 combined.. should they be tossed out?

Again, stop making this about you...or the fans in general.. because that's not what it's about at all.
 

OHLTG

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One thing I will never forget - 2016 in Helsinki, I got to Hartwall about an hour before the Canada/Finland QF and wound up catching the last little bit of Denmark/Russia QFs. Not intentional but I appreciated it. Denmark was up 3-2 with five min or so left and the (rather respectable) crowd was PUMPED for them. You could tell the players were having a blast; they had a chance to beat the powerhouse Russians. When Russia tied it up, you could hear a pin drop in that place. The Russians ended up winning 4-3 in OT but the passion and hopeful vibe from the Danish players never left. I believe they finished fifth in 2017, too.

Let me be clear, the best thing for Spitfire hockey right now would be the sale of the team to hockey guys with the understanding of jr hockey and the ability to be here long term.

It kind of feels like 2005 all over again...
 

windsor7

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Hell I’d expand the number of teams! It’s about the experience for most. So much can be learned in that kind of tourney! Remember jr hockey isn’t just about kids going to the pros it teaches a great number of lessons those players use for their entire lives. After being a part of hockey for decades I can firmly state. Kids that played travel sports turn into great adults!! Sure there’s a few problems but at a far less rate then normal. I count my years coaching and being part of teams as some of my best!! Let me be clear, the best thing for Spitfire hockey right now would be the sale of the team to hockey guys with the understanding of jr hockey and the ability to be here long term.

And to clean house for coaching staff all management.
 
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