TV: Willow (Disney+)

[Jussi]

Willow Series Isn’t Cancelled And Volume II Is Planned, Says Creator Jon Kasdan

The fantasy series won't go straight back into production – but it's not dead yet. Read more at Empire.

www.empireonline.com

 

[beowulf]

Willow Series Isn’t Cancelled And Volume II Is Planned, Says Creator Jon Kasdan

The fantasy series won't go straight back into production – but it's not dead yet. Read more at Empire.

www.empireonline.com

Funny how a bunch of outlets are saying it is...and many are now flipping and because of these comments. It was ok so don't care really either way.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I see where you're coming from. That said, Willow is basically Frodo and Madmartigan is Strider/Aragorn (and baby Elora is the One Ring). Young boys may be more drawn to Aragorn, but that doesn't mean that you couldn't build a story without him and around the "boring" hobbit, instead. In fact, that's essentially what The Hobbit is. Like Frodo/Bilbo, Willow is the main character of the movie and it's his journey (both physical and mental) that's at the center of it. Madmartigan is in it largely to make Willow look better and push the message of the movie (that size, skill and bravado don't make you a hero). In that way, he is rather important to the movie, but I wouldn't say that he's really necessary for a sequel, especially since he changed in the movie and couldn't really serve the same purpose again.

For that matter, I suppose that Willow couldn't serve the same purpose, either, since he grew a lot, too. That may be the real stumbling block when it comes to making a sequel. You may've felt that Willow was boring, but I think that most people fell in love with him because he was a relatable, sympathetic nobody caught up in an adventure against his will. By the end of the movie, though, he was confident and had learned magic, so where do you go from there? I imagine that the franchise was dormant for over 30 years because even George Lucas didn't have a good idea for a sequel, and the writers of this show seemingly didn't, either. If they had had a good idea, I think that they could've made a good show without Madmartigan. Since they didn't, I don't think that including Madmartigan would've saved it.

The Frodo comparison is legit and a good point, but we can’t ignore that he had ‘cool wizards and warriors’ helping him along the way.

And then there was Sam.

My bro was a LOTR nerd who read all the books and he always said Frodo was boring and the real hero was Sam.

Who is Willow’s Sam?

So I dunno, Willow himself IMHO isn’t a great character to build around unless he has a bunch of fun and likable characters around him.

In the series he was basically a crusty old dude that yells at the kids, shot fire out of his wand and fell down a lot.

He’s not exactly likable in the new series TBTH.

I think a lot of the characters would have grown on us if given more time, but they lacked that insta charisma that Madmartigan had.

To be fair, he was only in one episode.

It was so cringy that it felt like 8 episodes.

He was like that old friend that tried so hard to be cool, you felt sorry for him.

Even those creatures in the episode were so f***ing cringy.

They were straight out of Fraggle Rock.

Then they opened their mouths and sounded like an English gentleman?

I was watching thinking… wtf am I doing with my life?

 

[Osprey]

Willow Series Isn’t Cancelled And Volume II Is Planned, Says Creator Jon Kasdan

The fantasy series won't go straight back into production – but it's not dead yet. Read more at Empire.

www.empireonline.com

It sure sounds like it was cancelled, at least unofficially. His explanation reminds me of one of my part-time college jobs, when my boss told me that business was slow and to take some time off until he called with work for me. He never called. Unfortunately for Kasdan, he can't just take the series to another network, like the creators of The Expanse did, since Disney owns Lucasfilm, which owns Willow. That could also be why they don't need to officially cancel it.

Who is Willow’s Sam?

So I dunno, Willow himself IMHO isn’t a great character to build around unless he has a bunch of fun and likable characters around him.

In the series he was basically a crusty old dude that yells at the kids, shot fire out of his wand and fell down a lot.

Willow's Sam was Meegosh, his closest friend and the only one to stay with him when the rest of the party turned back. If your memory is drawing a blank, he was the other Nelwyn with Willow when they first met Madmartigan in the cage.

Regarding Willow in the series not being a great character, you'll receive no argument from me.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It sure sounds like it was cancelled, at least unofficially. His explanation reminds me of one of my part-time college jobs, when my boss told me that business was slow and to take some time off until he called with work for me. He never called. Unfortunately for Kasdan, he can't just take the series to another network, like the creators of The Expanse did, since Disney owns Lucasfilm, which owns Willow. That could also be why they don't need to officially cancel it.


Willow's Sam was Meegosh, his closest friend and the only one to stay with him when the rest of the party turned back. If your memory is drawing a blank, he was the other Nelwyn with Willow when they first met Madmartigan in the cage.

Regarding Willow in the series not being a great character, you'll receive no argument from me.

No I meant who is his Sam now?

There is a whole new generation of kids/young ppl that watched Willow the series and never saw the movie.

Who are the characters in the series that would pull them into the series like Madmartigan did for everyone I knew?

 

[Osprey]

No I meant who is his Sam now?

There is a whole new generation of kids/young ppl that watched Willow the series and never saw the movie.

Who are the characters in the series that would pull them into the series like Madmartigan did for everyone I knew?

I compared the movie (not the series) to LotR because you said that the series needed Madmartigan and I interpreted you as meaning that Kilmer needed to reprise his character. If you're just saying that the series needed characters like Madmartigan, I don't disagree with that.

 

[Knave]

The fantasy field is really crowded right now which I love because I don't mind an average show and that is what this was.

And unfortunately right now we live in a world where an average story without a strong and growing audience gets cancelled quickly.

I guess it's a never say never moment and maybe Disney could bring it back so they have more filler content on their streaming service but I doubt it.

 

[I am not exposed]

No I meant who is his Sam now?

There is a whole new generation of kids/young ppl that watched Willow the series and never saw the movie.

Who are the characters in the series that would pull them into the series like Madmartigan did for everyone I knew?

Pretty sure they were trying to make Boorman that character. But due to the terrible script it didn't work.

Also when watching this show at no point did I think this would be so much better if they Madmartigan made an appearance. If he had, it would have been some rubbish fan service plot.

This show had many problems. A lack of Madmartigan was very low on this list.

 

[Jussi]

The Frodo comparison is legit and a good point, but we can’t ignore that he had ‘cool wizards and warriors’ helping him along the way.

And then there was Sam.

My bro was a LOTR nerd who read all the books and he always said Frodo was boring and the real hero was Sam.

Who is Willow’s Sam?

So I dunno, Willow himself IMHO isn’t a great character to build around unless he has a bunch of fun and likable characters around him.

In the series he was basically a crusty old dude that yells at the kids, shot fire out of his wand and fell down a lot.

He’s not exactly likable in the new series TBTH.

I think a lot of the characters would have grown on us if given more time, but they lacked that insta charisma that Madmartigan had.



It was so cringy that it felt like 8 episodes.

He was like that old friend that tried so hard to be cool, you felt sorry for him.

Even those creatures in the episode were so f***ing cringy.

They were straight out of Fraggle Rock.

Then they opened their mouths and sounded like an English gentleman?

I was watching thinking… wtf am I doing with my life?

As I said before, the show was pretty much like Xena, Warrior Princess but with actual production values. Didn't take itself seriously and with almost Pythonesque humor at times. The trolls were an example of that. "High executive troll" was sooo Python. And you could have thrown Boorman in an episode of Xena and he wouldn't have stood out at all. Pretty much all the big Youtubers who reacted to it, liked it. Heroes Reforged loved the finale and we're apparently really disappointed at the initial news of cancellation.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I compared the movie (not the series) to LotR because you said that the series needed Madmartigan and I interpreted you as meaning that Kilmer needed to reprise his character. If you're just saying that the series needed characters like Madmartigan, I don't disagree with that.

No you understood me fine. I did mean if Kilmer was well like Cruise and reprised his role it would have completely change the dynamic of the show.

Now that assumes he could have brought the same charisma as he did many years ago, which may not have happened.

Maybe he would have went all Emilio Estevez in Game Changers and mailed in his performance.

But I did alter my original point that they needed a character with some charisma.

Pretty sure they were trying to make Boorman that character. But due to the terrible script it didn't work.

Also when watching this show at no point did I think this would be so much better if they Madmartigan made an appearance. If he had, it would have been some rubbish fan service plot.

This show had many problems. A lack of Madmartigan was very low on this list.

Ya I know Boorman was suppose to be the cool, funny character, but it was so forced.

It was obvious what they were trying to do with his character instead of letting it happen more organically.

I’m like 99% sure Madmartigen would have salvaged the show, again assuming Val Kilmer was well and could pick up where he left off.

I conceded above that he may have lost that enthusiasm with age though, even if he was well.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

As I said before, the show was pretty much like Xena, Warrior Princess but with actual production values. Didn't take itself seriously and with almost Pythonesque humor at times. The trolls were an example of that. "High executive troll" was sooo Python. And you could have thrown Boorman in an episode of Xena and he wouldn't have stood out at all. Pretty much all the big Youtubers who reacted to it, liked it. Heroes Reforged loved the finale and we're apparently really disappointed at the initial news of cancellation.

I liked the show, and felt it had potential.

Just needed more time to breathe and find legs maybe.

Some of the visuals were outstanding and that helps set the mood for a show I feel.

That cave troll episode with Slater was so f***ing weird though.

Writers and show runners must have gotten in a room and hit a bong.

“Hey guys… hey guys.. did ya ever see Fraggle Rock… on weed!”

 

[Jussi]

I liked the show, and felt it had potential.

Just needed more time to breathe and find legs maybe.

Some of the visuals were outstanding and that helps set the mood for a show I feel.

That cave troll episode with Slater was so f***ing weird though.

Writers and show runners must have gotten in a room and hit a bong.

“Hey guys… hey guys.. did ya ever see Fraggle Rock… on weed!”

Yeah, I won't deny the writing or the show itself was consistent all the time. I'd say the first 3 episodes are harder to get through but in my case it helped once I understood the tone of the show (as a poster at the superherohype forums mentioned). Don't expect "epic, serious adventure". Think more like Xena. I had fun especially during the last 3 episodes. By the way, based on the trailers, the Dungeons & Dragons movie that's coming out, seems to have a similar tone.

 

[Osprey]

Yeah, I won't deny the writing or the show itself was consistent all the time. I'd say the first 3 episodes are harder to get through but in my case it helped once I understood the tone of the show (as a poster at the superherohype forums mentioned). Don't expect "epic, serious adventure". Think more like Xena. I had fun especially during the last 3 episodes. By the way, based on the trailers, the Dungeons & Dragons movie that's coming out, seems to have a similar tone.

That's part of the problem. The movie is an epic, serious adventure, though with some humor thrown in. It's similar in tone to Return of the Jedi, not coincidentally also from George Lucas (and Madmartigan is not coincidentally a lot like Han Solo). It isn't Xena or Pythonesque. I think that that's largely why viewers who aren't very familiar with the movie and had no expectations seem to enjoy the show more than those who love the movie and had high expectations.

 

[Jussi]

That's part of the problem. The movie is an epic, serious adventure, though with some humor thrown in. It's similar in tone to Return of the Jedi, not coincidentally also from George Lucas (and Madmartigan is not coincidentally a lot like Han Solo). It isn't Xena or Pythonesque. I think that that's largely why viewers who aren't very familiar with the movie and had no expectations seem to enjoy the show more than those who love the movie and had high expectations.

I don't recall it being such.

 

[Osprey]

I don't recall it being such.

It opens with a newborn baby being slaughtered in front of her mother and Elora being orphaned when her mother is killed by wild dogs. Such was Disney's idea of content fit for children in the 80s.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It opens with a newborn baby being slaughtered in front of her mother and Elora being orphaned when her mother is killed by wild dogs. Such was Disney's idea of content fit for children in the 80s.

I kind of remembered it as a light hearted movie also, but I grew up in the dark age of Disney movies when moms always died some horrible death.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

The movie: Underrated cultish classic.

The show: Pure garbage, crazy how Warwick Davis doesn't seem to age at all.

 

[Fighter]

Well, I'm definitely bummed it didn't get renewed. f*** Disney really...

As for latest criticism I've been reading, if anything, it's true that this series was called Willow but in reality his character wasn't (yet) developed as well as in the movie, this series was really more centred on the younger crew (Elora/Kit/Graydon) but to me it worked, the fairy tale of Willow becoming the greatest sorcerer in the world after "defeating" Bavmorda wouldn't work either.
Looking forward to me a second chapter would have A LOT of potential both for the story and for the development of the characters (Kit was utterly disliked at first but at the end it completely turned around, Graydon looked like an unimportant, side character, yet at the end it was one of the more populars), I'd love to watch how "Evil Elora" and Graydon would make out.
People who dropped the series halfway should really check the last episodes where it really picked up, but to each its own.

Jon Kasdan implied there's still hope out there, but I wouldn't hold my breath given how f***ed Disney is. If it ever comes back, just give me a bit more of Sorsha.

 

[Osprey]

I finally finished the series. It didn't get any better for me. In some ways, it got worse. One of the few things that I liked about the early episodes was the location shooting. The last several episodes, on the other hand, looked like they were filmed almost entirely in The Volume. In general, the series relied much more on CGI near the end. In addition, Willow felt like he took even more of a backseat to the young adult melodrama, some of the new characters were puzzling and bad (like Christian Slater's and the trolls who now speak perfect, polite English) and there might've been even more modern music than before. Many things also came up once and never seemed to matter or were left hanging, no doubt because the writers were counting on further seasons to make them pay off. On top of all of that, the criticisms that I posted on the first page after the first few episodes (ex. no charm, unlikable characters, uninteresting story, cringey dialogue and humor, etc.) still stand after having finished the series.

If you liked the series enough to keep watching, you may feel that it got better as it went along, but if you disliked it enough to stop watching, I doubt that the rest is going to change your opinion, since it didn't mine.

 

[Jussi]

I finally finished the series. It didn't get any better for me. In some ways, it got worse. One of the few things that I liked about the early episodes was the location shooting. The last several episodes, on the other hand, looked like they were filmed almost entirely in The Volume. In general, the series relied much more on CGI near the end. In addition, Willow felt like he took even more of a backseat to the young adult melodrama, some of the new characters were puzzling and bad (like Christian Slater's and the trolls who now speak perfect, polite English) and there might've been even more modern music than before. Many things also came up once and never seemed to matter or were left hanging, no doubt because the writers were counting on further seasons to make them pay off. On top of all of that, the criticisms that I posted on the first page after the first few episodes (ex. no charm, unlikable characters, uninteresting story, cringey dialogue and humor, etc.) still stand after having finished the series.

If you liked it enough to keep watching, you may feel that the series gets better as it goes along. If you disliked it enough to stop watching, though, I doubt that the rest is going to change your opinion, since it didn't mine.

They actually shot on location in Wales and on real sets. It's covered in the Willow: Behind The Magic special.

 

[DaaaaB's]

I bet it would've got renewed if they had still lived in a village that would get attacked by wild boars.

 

[Osprey]

They actually shot on location in Wales and on real sets. It's covered in the Willow: Behind The Magic special.

There wasn't much of that location shooting in the final few episodes and most of the sets looked like sets, some because they were heavily green screened, like in the scene that you screenshotted on the last page.

 

[Jussi]

There wasn't much of that location shooting in the final few episodes and most of the sets looked like sets, some because they were heavily green screened, like in the scene that you screenshotted on the last page.

Most of episode 7 was shot on location. All the "Shattered Sea" bits. I've also read comments that the night scene was real.

 

[Osprey]

Most of episode 7 was shot on location. All the "Shattered Sea" bits. I've also read comments that the night scene was real.

I don't believe that. All of the following scream "indoor set" to me.

 

[Jussi]

I don't believe that. All of the following scream "indoor set" to me.

View attachment 678603View attachment 678604
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The Willow, Behind the magic special showed the first two pictures had blue screen behind them, not sure about the 3rd one but the fourth one looked like it was shot on the beach in Wales, where most of the episode took place. I'm not sure about the night scene, I just read on the comments of a reaction video, possibly Blind Wave's, that at least those glowing eels or whatever were supposedly real.