William Nylander Discussion Thread

Teeder Keon

Defeat does not rest lightly on their shoulders
Mar 11, 2019
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Fair! Except the using Matthews as an example. He is generational or very close to it Willie is not.
That said a player cannot be 100% in all those things and isn't it only fair to expect different levels of players to have different success ratios?
As is Nylander's numbers, where they can be tracked, are good and consistent with players of equal skill level. Things left to the eye test will always be seen through our bias
Good points brotha , the Mathews example was more of a dedication turn on his part in nutrition and health and commitment , and much more not in point totals
I could easily see WN in the Pasta category and or Panarin ??
But well done
 
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Wafflewhipper

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Jan 18, 2014
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Good to see Willie excited to score that greasy goal to tie it and even better to see him go to the net to score the winner. Want to keep seeing more of it, especially in the playoffs. Now if JT would just wake up from his slumber.
I’m still not convinced a man should need to be humiliated to be motivated. Not fun being coach when that has to go down. Nice response. Perfect analysis of what he did in winning us a game there Dog. Driving the paint and he scores two. He was doing “zone entries” thats his niche and he needs to do it allthe time every game,every week all the time. He is one of the best in the League at it. It was gone completely. Pheww i hope he gets rolling. I’m still annoyed he falls in to bad habits he doesn’t have to. He needs to drop gloves and be our enforcer now :) He should throw some hits, he has to do it.
 

Morgs

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Jul 12, 2015
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Of the forwards that have played at least 100 minutes this season, here is where Will ranks:

Goals: 56th
Primary Assists: 47th
Points: 48th

ixG: 7th
oiSH%: 288th

So again, for the people in the back: His production has been first line level, and his individual expected goals have been elite despite having some of the worst on ice luck of any player in the entire league. It's pretty obvious to see it's not lack of effort or that he doesn't care that is holding him back, it's the fact that regardless of how many times he or his linemates get chances on net, the puck simply isn't going in. Despite that, he's STILL producing like a middle-tier first line player.

Not to mention that Will has been a plus player at driving play offensively (shock), and is having arguably his best defensive season by rel.xGA:

rel.GF/60: -0.63
rel.GA/60: -0.19
rel.xGF/60: +0.1
rel.xGA/60: -0.07

The dude always seems to be one step away from being a superstar, and I think virtually all his problems would stop if one of his linemates ever decided it was a good time to not be on a scoring slump.
 

saltming

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Good points brotha , the Mathews example was more of a dedication turn on his part in nutrition and health and commitment , and much more not in point totals
I could easily see WN in the Pasta category and or Panarin ??
But well done
Willie I think is also on that nutrition health commitment to. He is a beat compared to draft day.
All these modern hockey players are that way now. No more smoking during the intermission for the players anymore :laugh:
 

saltming

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That’s hilarious
I remember using ex games and tryouts to get in shape lol
Hahahahaha
First time I got back on the ice after 30+ years I thought I was going to have a coronary after 30 seconds. Second shift it seemed that my feet forgot how to do the simplest shifts and turns and I was on the ice lying down more that standing up hahahaha
 
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Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
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Willie I think is also on that nutrition health commitment to. He is a beat compared to draft day.
All these modern hockey players are that way now. No more smoking during the intermission for the players anymore :laugh:


He looks like he's the biggest gym rat on the team, so I'm not sure this is an area where he needs to improve on.
 
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OB34KNH

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Apr 11, 2019
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The Athletic article that came out from last night mentioned a lot of things I agree about the public's opinion of Willy, but one thing that stood out to me.

Now I am a Willy supporter, but that doesn't blind me from knowing when he needs to be better. And leading up to being benched and called out, ya, he needed to be a lot better.

That being said, the line from the article that stood out was something like "Nylander giving away the puck draws more ire than a similar turnover by Marner".

I understand that with what Willy is paid, he is expected to contribute in many ways, or if he can't, he needs to be elite at what he is best at. But the above to me is classic whipping boy example, but almost more to an extreme.

Kind of like when they say you can't fire the players, so you fire the coach. It is an easier and more efficient way out. Well, it is also easy to blame Willy, rather than blame a handful of players or an entire team effort.

Does he make himself an easy target in terms of blame with his play sometimes? Absolutely. But it has become more than that. Instead of the easy target, he's become an automatic target. Whether he is the easiest to blame, the first one to come to mind or a target through groupthink. Let's blame Willy for X,Y and Z, even if only X was his fault (or in some cases, none was his fault but I dislike the player so much that I'll just resort to it).

He needs to be better, he needs to take a lot of responsibility based on his salary and role, but I think when things are bad, he's just become the one to blame sometimes cause every one else is doing it.

I'm trying to give Willy a fair shake here, many others are too, but many have made up their minds and won't revert back no matter what happens.


Mitch Marner plays better overall defense, penalty kills, and, has almost 2x the points as Nylander That's why.
 

Stephen

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Nylander's problems stem from the fact that he can seemingly do so many wonderful things while 'looking effortless' which after a while looks like he's not giving an effort. The logic follows, if he gave more of an effort, he would be so much better. To some degree it's true. He's a guy who was once in the running for the first overall pick and certainly at the level of a Pastrnak and Marner and has ridiculous tools. But time is passing by and he's failed to take a few steps towards being an elite player that some of his earlier comparables have.
 

Notsince67

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Apr 27, 2018
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What are you calling consistent? Is it something that can be seen through stats or something in the eye test realm?
Keefe said that willy is responsible for some of the criticism. What you are proposing is something that even his coach doesnt agree with. Willy has been sub par. He has lacked consistency. Trying to pretend otherwise doesnt change the fact. There are a lot of people rooting for him but not being blind doesnt mean people hate him.
 

saltming

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Keefe said that willy is responsible for some of the criticism. What you are proposing is something that even his coach doesnt agree with. Willy has been sub par. He has lacked consistency. Trying to pretend otherwise doesnt change the fact. There are a lot of people rooting for him but not being blind doesnt mean people hate him.
IIRC the criticism was pretty vague and I took it to mean coach saw Willie jumping to offense while we were protecting a lead. Willie wasn't on the same page I think he said. Coach called him out on that
 

BertCorbeau

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Nylander's problems stem from the fact that he can seemingly do so many wonderful things while 'looking effortless' which after a while looks like he's not giving an effort. The logic follows, if he gave more of an effort, he would be so much better. To some degree it's true. He's a guy who was once in the running for the first overall pick and certainly at the level of a Pastrnak and Marner and has ridiculous tools. But time is passing by and he's failed to take a few steps towards being an elite player that some of his earlier comparables have.

I think it's reasonable, at this point, to believe that Nylander will never be the go to #1 or #2 guy on a contending team. Just doesn't seem like he has it in him, like Kessel. If we were trying to rebuild with him as our main centre piece, like we started with in 2014, things would be even more critical now for who he isn't.

That being said, Nylander is in an ideal situation on the Leafs were he's sheltered by other stars and can still produce like a first liner, but be a secondary piece. Again like Kessel was in Pittsburgh.

And there's nothing wrong with that. A bit more consistency would be great, and if he got his nose a bit dirtier, but there's a lot to like about him.
 

Stephen

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Feb 28, 2002
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I think it's reasonable, at this point, to believe that Nylander will never be the go to #1 or #2 guy on a contending team. Just doesn't seem like he has it in him, like Kessel. If we were trying to rebuild with him as our main centre piece, like we started with in 2014, things would be even more critical now for who he isn't.

That being said, Nylander is in an ideal situation on the Leafs were he's sheltered by other stars and can still produce like a first liner, but be a secondary piece. Again like Kessel was in Pittsburgh.

And there's nothing wrong with that. A bit more consistency would be great, and if he got his nose a bit dirtier, but there's a lot to like about him.

Yep, exactly. Like I said earlier, he's basically slotted as the number three or four option on the Leafs now, which is perfect. When we had Kessel, the mission impossible there was having used up the firsts to get him but have no way of getting 2 lead dogs to play ahead of him.
 

Notsince67

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IIRC the criticism was pretty vague and I took it to mean coach saw Willie jumping to offense while we were protecting a lead. Willie wasn't on the same page I think he said. Coach called him out on that
He literally said that Willy needs to find more consistency in his game.
There was no equivocation and it was clear.
 

Wafflewhipper

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Jan 18, 2014
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Willy is a puck carrier and zone entry whiz that has done neither this year. JT needs to give the Puck to Willy and set up high slot more. Tavares shouldn’t be carrying pucks through the neutral zone. That’s Willies job, end of problems with the line.
 

saltming

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He literally said that Willy needs to find more consistency in his game.
There was no equivocation and it was clear.
Sheldon Keefe explained why he benched William Nylander later in the Maple Leafs’ win over the Canadiens, saying they started to play the way he wanted in the third and Nylander didn’t match that.
Keefe explains why he benched Nylander against the Canadiens - Sportsnet.ca
That's a miss on your memory there.
He wasn't playing the way the coach wanted ie protecting the lead so not cheating to get out of the zone etc
Don't see the word concistency at all so I literally don't know which quote you're talking about
 

OB34KNH

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Apr 11, 2019
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He does not play defense better than Nylander and Nylander has never been given the chance to play the PK.

He has more points but he is not a better defensive player.

Come on.
Marner is far better defensively than Nylander.

Marner's constantly breaking up plays with his active stick, stick lifting, and stick checking.

Let me ask you a question. Would you put Nylander on the PK over Marner?
 

New Liskeard

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Jul 7, 2007
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He does not play defense better than Nylander and Nylander has never been given the chance to play the PK.

He has more points but he is not a better defensive player.

There is a reason Nylander is not on the PK; Marner is a significantly better defensive player and its really not even close. If you have any doubts; see what positions the coach puts Nylander in.
 
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