Will we win a Cup within the next 5 years under Hextall?

[TheKingPin]

I get the point people are making saying it’s hard to win a cup no matter what so no, but that’s not the point I think the OP was getting at. For example nashville and Winnipeg should win cups eventually, there fans would vote yes. For me anyway, I looked at this as will we have as good as or better a team than Nashville and Winnipeg or Tampa. It’s all there. Winnipeg hated their coach but I think he’s a good one and the rest of the teams have very good coaches. That’s the area we need to get better at.

 

[YEM]

It’s much easier to be a seller than it is a buyer. Hextall’s largely been a seller to this point. Transitioning out of that phase is when you see what a GM is really made of.

yep
always easier to tear down vs. build

 

[gertbfrobe16]

too many trust issues on this team coach doesn't trust his better players, players run around in d zone because they don't trust players they play with and try to help, d trying to play goaltender too much instead of playing their man and goaltender not trusting d when getting hung out or d screening and deflecting shots into own net. until this changes i don't think they have a chance at a cup.

 

[hatcher]

too many trust issues on this team coach doesn't trust his better players, players run around in d zone because they don't trust players they play with and try to help, d trying to play goaltender too much instead of playing their man and goaltender not trusting d when getting hung out or d screening and deflecting shots into own net. until this changes i don't think they have a chance at a cup.

All so true. As a fan you cant trust the older players to show even though they get points and the structure is shit and goalies are hung out to dry lots.

 

[Hurricane28]

I personally don't see it.

 

[GKJ]

This is a question that doesn’t make sense. Basically asking if the team will win the Cup. Almost every team thinks that. There’s a lot of things that happen that stop it from happening. How long have Washington and San Jose been at it with consistently good teams and annual championship aspirations? For the Sharks it’s been the better part of the last 20 years, the Caps almost 15.

It’s his job to deliver a team that can. Which he has to, there isn’t another option if he intends to keep his job. If the answer is no then you’re saying that you don’t believe in guys like Provorov, Ghost, and Patrick much less our best veteran players.

 

[Rebels57]

This is a question that doesn’t make sense. Basically asking if the team will win the Cup. Almost every team thinks that. There’s a lot of things that happen that stop it from happening. How long have Washington and San Jose been at it with consistently good teams and annual championship aspirations? For the Sharks it’s been the better part of the last 20 years, the Caps almost 15.

It’s his job to deliver a team that can. Which he has to, there isn’t another option if he intends to keep his job. If the answer is no then you’re saying that you don’t believe in guys like Provorov, Ghost, and Patrick much less our best veteran players.

My answer is No because of our coaching staff and I don't have faith that Hextall will make the necessary addition(s) when we are truly ready. I love our core but I don't think it's enough to get over the top on it's own without substantially better depth and goaltending.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

This is a question that doesn’t make sense. Basically asking if the team will win the Cup. Almost every team thinks that. There’s a lot of things that happen that stop it from happening. How long have Washington and San Jose been at it with consistently good teams and annual championship aspirations? For the Sharks it’s been the better part of the last 20 years, the Caps almost 15.

It’s his job to deliver a team that can. Which he has to, there isn’t another option if he intends to keep his job. If the answer is no then you’re saying that you don’t believe in guys like Provorov, Ghost, and Patrick much less our best veteran players.

You're overthinking the question.

I'm asking you if you believe Hextall will bring us a Stanley Cup within the next 5 years based on what we know at this moment.

 

[Hurricane28]

Hextall has to show me that he has the capabilities to take his team to the next level. If he has a good summer, then my answer will change to yes, but Hextall's loyalty to his coach and safe players is a warning sign for me.

 

[Striiker]

Hextall has to show me that he has the capabilities to take his team to the next level. If he has a good summer, then my answer will change to yes, but Hextall's loyalty to his coach and safe players is a warning sign for me.

What loyalty to safe players?

 

[Rebels57]

What loyalty to safe players?

Haven't we covered this?

Hextall very easily could have buried the likes of Lehtera, MacDonald, Weise, Manning, and VandeVelde before them in the AHL so that his coach did not have the option to overplay them at critical junctures of the game, costing us both valuable development time for prospects with a future, and points in the standings.

 

[Striiker]

Haven't we covered this?

Hextall very easily could have buried the likes of Lehtera, MacDonald, Weise, Manning, and VandeVelde before them in the AHL so that his coach did not have the option to overplay them at critical junctures of the game, costing us both valuable development time for prospects with a future, and points in the standings.

What you just described was his horrible philosophy of not interfering with the coach.

I’m still waiting to see an example of his “loyalty to safe players”.

 

[Rebels57]

What you just described was his horrible philosophy of not interfering with the coach.

I’m still waiting to see an example of his “loyalty to safe players”.

GMs decide the 23 man roster. I have no problem with your assertion that Hextall gives Hakstol free reign over his lines after the roster is set, but if Hextall is letting Hakstol decide the 23 man as well than something is wrong with the process.

 

[GKJ]

You're overthinking the question.

I'm asking you if you believe Hextall will bring us a Stanley Cup within the next 5 years based on what we know at this moment.

Possibly, but why attach Hextall to the question? If the Lightning don’t win the Cup this year, what else was Steve Yzerman supposed to do? I would say within 5 years the Flyers should and will be in that position, and if they don’t get it done I wouldn’t put that on Hextall.

My answer is No because of our coaching staff and I don't have faith that Hextall will make the necessary addition(s) when we are truly ready. I love our core but I don't think it's enough to get over the top on it's own without substantially better depth and goaltending.

If we’re in year 8 of this program and we’re still scraping into the playoffs, Hakstol won’t last. in fact I think it’s safe to say that next season. Those above Hextall will put heat on him. It’s my sense from the STH town hall that the lack of buzz around the Flyers and thus lower attendance is something that is not sitting well with Holmgren.

 

[Striiker]

GMs decide the 23 man roster. I have no problem with your assertion that Hextall gives Hakstol free reign over his lines after the roster is set, but if Hextall is letting Hakstol decide the 23 man as well than something is wrong with the process.

The problem was those players being used horribly, not that they were on the roster to start with.

And even if we place blame on Hextall for leaving them on the roster, that still doesn't qualify as "loyalty to safe players".

 

[Rebels57]

The problem was those players being used horribly, not that they were on the roster to start with.

Lehtera and Manning especially, did not belong anywhere near an NHL roster, but were deemed worthy of a lineup option by the GM.

 

[Striiker]

Lehtera and Manning especially, did not belong anywhere near an NHL roster, but were deemed worthy of a lineup option by the GM.

They were deemed tolerable.

One was just let go as a FA. Still waiting to see the loyalty to safe players.



I'm going to keep harping on that so we don't stray away from the original point.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Possibly, but why attach Hextall to the question? If the Lightning don’t win the Cup this year, what else was Steve Yzerman supposed to do? I would say within 5 years the Flyers should and will be in that position, and if they don’t get it done I wouldn’t put that on Hextall.

You can take his name out of it if it makes you feel more comfortable with answering. I added his name because he's been the captain of the ship for the last 4-5 years and what we see now (and in the next few years) are all his doing.

Again, this is based mostly on belief. Belief that we'll be good enough to seriously contend for the Cup and that one of those times we'll win it.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Lehtera and Manning especially, did not belong anywhere near an NHL roster, but were deemed worthy of a lineup option by the GM.

Well Lehtera was on St. Louis roster, too. I know we don't like him, but it isn't absurd that he played in the bottom 6. Manning is OK as a #6. Again, not ideal though.

I think they're just bodies in roles that we didn't have players to fill otherwise. We could've put rookies in, but most of them would've been wasted with those minutes. Sanheim is the only one I'd argue for here, but if he didn't get enough minutes then I don't think it's so bad to put him in the AHL where he can play 20+ instead of 15 or under in NHL.

I hate defending these things.

My goal is to move the needle a little closer to "Meh" on how bad of a decision it is rather than closer to "Hextall and Hakstol need to be MURDERED for this" when I counter these arguments about nothing players like Manning and Lehtera.

 

[Rebels57]

They were deemed tolerable.

One was just let go as a FA. Still waiting to see the loyalty to safe players.



I'm going to keep harping on that so we don't stray away from the original point.

Jori Lehtera at the verrrrry least. He's bad. His buy-out is easily digestible. He's not being bought-out or waived to the AHL. He is going to play more hockey games next season. He will play badly. That's loyalty. If it's not, please explain how it isn't.

 

[deadhead]

Haven't we covered this?

Hextall very easily could have buried the likes of Lehtera, MacDonald, Weise, Manning, and VandeVelde before them in the AHL so that his coach did not have the option to overplay them at critical junctures of the game, costing us both valuable development time for prospects with a future, and points in the standings.

And rushed a couple prospects and maybe ruin them for what?
What prospect was held back who obviously was NHL ready, you know, heads and shoulders above his AHL peers, like Giroux and Couts when they were in the AHL.

The assumption that a prospect will necessarily improve in the NHL should have been disproven by Laughton's first season, where he was clueless defensively. Look at Lindblom in the playoffs, totally lost.

Hextall has a good idea what he's doing, if he's conservative with prospects, it's not that different from most teams, fans think every touted prospect is guaranteed to succeed the moment they hit NHL ice. When you actually go back and look at drafts, only the top 10 draft picks get to the NHL quickly, it's a mixed bag with the 2nd ten, and after pick 20, most players are marinated for extended periods. Because the talented, NHL ready players go at the top of the draft, the rest are either less talented or less ready.

When you're building a team, you're going to be risk adverse with prospects. Ron is right, a few more months in the AHL isn't going to hurt a prospect, and if they're ready, they'll dominate the AHL, not merely hold their own.

 

[Striiker]

Jori Lehtera at the verrrrry least. He's bad. His buy-out is easily digestible. He's not being bought-out or waived to the AHL. He is going to play more hockey games next season. He will play badly. That's loyalty. If it's not, please explain how it isn't.

Being more tolerant of a bad player than you are and being "loyal to safe players" are two very different things.

I'm still waiting to see any proof of loyalty. Still nothing, which makes the answer to this pretty clear.

 

[deadhead]

I don't think it's so much a matter of tolerance of bad veterans as patience with good prospects.
Hextall neither wants them promoted too fast or thrown to the wolves when they are promoted.
The "safe" veterans are there to protect prospects, not because they're loved.
Provorov certainly played over all the "favorite" defensemen immediately.

It's pretty normal for most prospects on most teams to gradually increase their minutes and roles over their first three seasons or so - which means as rookies, "safe" veterans often play more minutes, and not just in Philly.

 

[KrazyKat]

I'm voting yes. People are forgetting how bad Holmgren ruined this team. We had no prospects. I like to compare our selves to Winnipeg. They had a great prospect system, and year after year finished last.

Now look at them!

Once Patrick takes off, Sanheim and Myers step up. Along with some other additions. This team is going to be sick!

Now in the meantime, I wouldn't mind an upgrade in net. Grubauer could be worth a shot. I thought Mrazek would have been worth a shot to re - sign. But what ever guess that won't happen. As for the Forwards, I'm not too keen on any of the Free Agents, maybe a guy like Neil.

 

[Rebels57]

Being more tolerant of a bad player than you are and being "loyal to safe players" are two very different things.

I'm still waiting to see any proof of loyalty. Still nothing, which makes the answer to this pretty clear.

You refuse to acknowledge any valid examples of loyalty and instead just offer a different perspective... so theres no point in you continuing to ask the question.