Will the Leafs/Growlers relationship change the ECHL?

[Royalsflagrunner77]

Still cringe at games one and two of the semis that year. The team that won that series was a lock to win the cup against Stockton.

Game 1 was going to be a Cyclones win when a Reading player looked as if his pass was going around the boards and Cyclones goalie Michael Houser came out and it was tipped or went off the glass funny into the net. The Royals won in OT or 2 OT. Then game 2 went to OT or double OT.

It was a 4-1 series which was actually a nail biter.

Those early Cincy and Reading series were the best to watch.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Those early Cincy and Reading series were the best to watch.

You guys owed us one anyway.

The 2010 semi finals series was heaven for a Cyclones fan and hell for a Royals fan. As you know, we were down 0-3 in the series and came back to win. We beat Idaho in the finals.

I thought that the 12-13 team and this past season's team were far superior to our 2010 Kelly Cup winner.

Was your 2013 Kelly Cup Champ Royals team the best you guys ever had or did you think that there was another year(s) that was better?

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Bobby Shea! I remember that well. 18 years of games at the Sovereign Center/Santander Arena and that is the only time I've seen that happen. Sometimes there is a weird bounce off the Zamboni door, but that one hit the stanchion between two panes of glass about halfway between the blue line and goal line, and went straight into the net. Shea was a college kid that they signed to an ATO and he played 4 regular season games, but he was one of the heroes of that playoff run for scoring that fluky goal.

I had forgotten his name. Now I can hate him again. Thanks

 

[Royalsflagrunner77]

You guys owed us one anyway.

The 2010 semi finals series was heaven for a Cyclones fan and hell for a Royals fan. As you know, we were down 0-3 in the series and came back to win. We beat Idaho in the finals.

I thought that the 12-13 team and this past season's team were far superior to our 2010 Kelly Cup winner.

Was your 2013 Kelly Cup Champ Royals team the best you guys ever had or did you think that there was another year(s) that was better?

That 2013 team was by far the best team in my mind. The team the following year was really close to the cup year but didn't have constant goaltender and there was a on ice leader ship issue as well . They brought back a guy that was the captain prior . I think that caused separation in the locker room . Could have easily went back to back.

 

[210]

Bobby Shea signed with the Railers a couple weeks ago...I jotted down a note to ask him about that goal. You'd think he'd have to remember it.

 

[royals119]

You guys owed us one anyway.

The 2010 semi finals series was heaven for a Cyclones fan and hell for a Royals fan. As you know, we were down 0-3 in the series and came back to win. We beat Idaho in the finals.

That's for sure. There were some fans who brought brooms to the fourth game of that 2010 semi. Jinxed the team! It was unbelievable that they lost four in a row to lose that series.

I thought that the 12-13 team and this past season's team were far superior to our 2010 Kelly Cup winner.

Was your 2013 Kelly Cup Champ Royals team the best you guys ever had or did you think that there was another year(s) that was better?

They were the best "team" for sure. Guys who sacrificed their own stats for the team. Guys who came back from the AHL at the end of the year to play when they didn't have to. I think it was Kirk MacDonald (current coach) who asked his AHL coach if he wasn't going to be part of the AHL teams playoff run to please release him from his contract so he could go back to Reading. He, Tifu, Ethan Cox, Pat Wellar, and others were experienced guys near the end of their careers who were more interested in winning a championship than in putting up numbers for themselves. Even the guys on AHL and NHL deals who were called up would come down to Reading on their days off to watch the games and hang out with the team. They had a real team bond, and a real desire to win. I think that 09-10 team may have had more talented offensive players, and probably some other teams as well.

That 2013 team was by far the best team in my mind. The team the following year was really close to the cup year but didn't have constant goaltender and there was a on ice leader ship issue as well . They brought back a guy that was the captain prior . I think that caused separation in the locker room . Could have easily went back to back.

I think it was partly that they really put it all out to win the '13 cup. Tifu had played 8 years without winning anything, and he played all 72 regular season games plus every playoff game. He wasn't the most skilled player on the ice, but he wanted it more than anyone. The following year he lost even a little more speed and skill, and the desire wan't the same.
Of course a hot goaltender is always the most important factor. The championship team did use 8 goaltenders, and two played more minutes than Riley Gill, who was the late season and playoff hero (Anderson and Grubauer)

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I think it was partly that they really put it all out to win the '13 cup. Tifu had played 8 years without winning anything, and he played all 72 regular season games plus every playoff game. He wasn't the most skilled player on the ice, but he wanted it more than anyone. The following year he lost even a little more speed and skill, and the desire wan't the same.
Of course a hot goaltender is always the most important factor. The championship team did use 8 goaltenders, and two played more minutes than Riley Gill, who was the late season and playoff hero (Anderson and Grubauer)

I watched a ton of Tifu when he played for Dayton. I always found him to be an entertaining player. He made a behind the back pass from the half wall in a game at Hobart Arena which led to a goal. It may have been the sweetest pass that I ever saw!

I was at his final ECHL game-a playoff game in Wheeling in 2016. He was blubbering when he left the ice as he knew his career was over. The guy was a very passionate player. Even though (obviously) I didn't want to see you guys win it in 2013, I was happy for Tifu.

I also got a taunt off a Patrick Wellar your defenseman. He had been with Hershey and they had lost the playoffs and I let him know in no uncertain terms that he was responsible for the Bears' loss and that he never belonged in the AHL. We revisited this when he became a Cyclones assistant coach

 

[Growler]

Even after the Growlers having won the Kelly Cup and having been #1 in merchandise sales, failed to make a profit. This is primarily due to the stadium leasing arrangement with the City of St. John's. There was a 1 year Memorandum of Understanding for the Growlers and St. John's Edge (Basketball) to take over operations of the stadium, but that fell through because the Growlers and Edge did not have adequate information to offer a thorough proposal because the city refused to disclose key information like food and drink sales (the teams are now considering legal action to force the city to release those figures). The whole thing sounds like typical City government incompetence. Instead of giving successful businessmen the ability to operate the facility for all types of entertainment, the city will continue to operate Mile One at a loss, requiring tax subsidies. So the Growlers and Edge are being forced to renew their lease agreements.

The ECHL would never have come to St. John's if Toronto had not offered to take over the entire hockey operations, including coaching, medical and training staff, and sent down a pile of players from the Marlies. These operational savings offset the travel costs and travel compensation the Growlers have to give visiting teams, as per their ECHL condition of admission. In one interview Glenn Stanford laughed that the Growlers operations are significantly more expensive than even were the Alaska Aces in their day. I'm sure the Canadian dollar exchange factors in here too (staff and team costs are largely in USD, revenue is in CAD).

Because the Growlers started their inaugural seasons ticket drive so late last year, and because the ECHL was completely new to St. John's, the Growlers operating at a loss probably should not come as a complete surprise. The AHL in St. John's used to sell-out religiously, so we may see the same with the Growlers soon. They certainly hit it out of the park last year, from the Championship, to the logo, to the local representation, and the affiliation with Toronto - especially considering Newfoundland is predominantly a Leaf fan base. Going forward, the Leafs are holding a week of Training Camp and an exhibition game in St. John's annually.

I read that the Florida Everblades were promised more support from Nashville than they received from Carolina's affiliation - as ironic as this might sound considering they are owned by the same entity. Perhaps more ECHL franchises can negotiate better arrangements with their NHL affiliates given that there are more NHL franchises than there are ECHL franchises. Maybe the ECHL is better-off with fewer teams if it means that the big clubs are more invested?

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Even after the Growlers having won the Kelly Cup and having been #1 in merchandise sales, failed to make a profit. This is primarily due to the stadium leasing arrangement with the City of St. John's. There was a 1 year Memorandum of Understanding for the Growlers and St. John's Edge (Basketball) to take over operations of the stadium, but that fell through because the Growlers and Edge did not have adequate information to offer a thorough proposal because the city refused to disclose key information like food and drink sales (the teams are now considering legal action to force the city to release those figures). The whole thing sounds like typical City government incompetence. Instead of giving successful businessmen the ability to operate the facility for all types of entertainment, the city will continue to operate Mile One at a loss, requiring tax subsidies. So the Growlers and Edge are being forced to renew their lease agreements.

The ECHL would never have come to St. John's if Toronto had not offered to take over the entire hockey operations, including coaching, medical and training staff, and sent down a pile of players from the Marlies. These operational savings offset the travel costs and travel compensation the Growlers have to give visiting teams, as per their ECHL condition of admission. In one interview Glenn Stanford laughed that the Growlers operations are significantly more expensive than even were the Alaska Aces in their day. I'm sure the Canadian dollar exchange factors in here too (staff and team costs are largely in USD, revenue is in CAD).

Because the Growlers started their inaugural seasons ticket drive so late last year, and because the ECHL was completely new to St. John's, the Growlers operating at a loss probably should not come as a complete surprise. The AHL in St. John's used to sell-out religiously, so we may see the same with the Growlers soon. They certainly hit it out of the park last year, from the Championship, to the logo, to the local representation, and the affiliation with Toronto - especially considering Newfoundland is predominantly a Leaf fan base. Going forward, the Leafs are holding a week of Training Camp and an exhibition game in St. John's annually.

I read that the Florida Everblades were promised more support from Nashville than they received from Carolina's affiliation - as ironic as this might sound considering they are owned by the same entity. Perhaps more ECHL franchises can negotiate better arrangements with their NHL affiliates given that there are more NHL franchises than there are ECHL franchises. Maybe the ECHL is better-off with fewer teams if it means that the big clubs are more invested?

Certainly the biggest thing bringing them down was the travel costs. The Growlers also have hands-down the worst travel in the ECHL, since every away game requires at least a flight and then some. They also subsidized the travel costs of every visiting team, as did the two IceCaps franchises, as a condition to entering the league. While the IceCaps were financially successful, they also sold out their first three years under the Jets. While the Growlers did fairly well, it wasn't full every night and the EC relies heavily on ticket revenue.

However, they did win in their inaugural season and they have an excellent relationship with their affiliates. With a whole summer to promote a successful team, one that is a known commodity by the locals as well, I would be surprised not to see them finishing in the black.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I hope the Growlers and city work out a deal.

From what I could glean, the team means a lot to the people there. It would be a shame if it some petty bickering caused the Growlers to fail.

 

[Tao Jersey Jones]

Binghamton loaned 3 skaters and 2 goalies to Adirondack last season which I'm guessing is near the bottom. Two skaters were on AHL contracts (D Tariq Hammond and F John Edwardh). D Colby Sissons, G Cam Johnson, and G Evan Cormier are/were on NHL contracts.

Binghamton has C/D Ludvig Larsson and C Ryan Schmelzer signed to AHL contracts for 2019-20. They had six skaters signed to AHL contracts last season. Binghamton currently has 15 F 6 D 2 G. So it will be interesting to see how many more Fitzgerald brings in this summer.

Adirondack did well last season without any significant help from any of the above except John Edwardh who had a lengthy point/game streak and a ppg playoffs.

 

[Growler]

Binghamton loaned 3 skaters and 2 goalies to Adirondack last season which I'm guessing is near the bottom. Two skaters were on AHL contracts (D Tariq Hammond and F John Edwardh). D Colby Sissons, G Cam Johnson, and G Evan Cormier are/were on NHL contracts.

Binghamton has C/D Ludvig Larsson and C Ryan Schmelzer signed to AHL contracts for 2019-20. They had six skaters signed to AHL contracts last season. Binghamton currently has 15 F 6 D 2 G. So it will be interesting to see how many more Fitzgerald brings in this summer.

Adirondack did well last season without any significant help from any of the above except John Edwardh who had a lengthy point/game streak and a ppg playoffs.

By my accounting (it's not likely dead-on) Binghampton sent down 4 AHL players to Adirondack for at least 1 dressed game. NJ sent down 3 NHL contracted players for at least 1 game. Both are slightly below the average (5.9 & 3.4 respectively).

I was soooo happy not to face Adirondack in the playoffs last year.

 

[Adam Michaels]

The Leafs adopting a three-tiered system was a very smart move. I'm actually surprised it hasn't been done before. This may start a new trend and credit must be given to Dubas, Shanahan, and the Leafs.

All signs point to the Habs adopting this system in the new future. With the new arena being built in Trois-Rivières and ready for the 2020-21 season, rumor is that Geoff Molson is paying close attention to this as a possible ECHL affiliate.

 

[Growler]

The Leafs adopting a three-tiered system was a very smart move. I'm actually surprised it hasn't been done before. This may start a new trend and credit must be given to Dubas, Shanahan, and the Leafs.

All signs point to the Habs adopting this system in the new future. With the new arena being built in Trois-Rivières and ready for the 2020-21 season, rumor is that Geoff Molson is paying close attention to this as a possible ECHL affiliate.

Some interesting developments with Montreal/Laval/Trois Rivieres, Carolina/Charlotte/Greenville, Detroit/Grand Rapids/Toledo etc. -- I think it is better for the league building a fan base capable of following the farm so close in proximity.