Will The Avs Trade Bleackley This Season??

[Bender]

It wouldn't surprise me, to be honest. Depending on where they are in the standings and what they could get in return for him, likely as part of a package.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Sign him or trade him. Just do something. I'd certainly prefer the former, but damn, don't let him walk for free next summer

They won't let him walk. This is the same situation as Geertsen, who also had people worried he would not be signed. For some reason they like to wait with these ELCs. I don't know why they wait, but I'm not worried. They have not signed Wood or Nantel yet either, both of which have earned a contract with their development and/or potential. Meloche hasn't been signed despite his hype and solid training camp.

Bigras (middle of first pre-season) and Martin (end of 2nd camp) are the only 2 guys who have signed early.

 

[chet1926]

I could see it as a possibility. The team is obviously not super high on him or they would have given him a contract by now. He played good enough this preseason to warrant a contract, but yet still has no contract.

Right now I'd say that Bleackley, Hishon, and Siemens are the most likely "prospects" to get traded in my books.

I could see a Elliott for Gormley type trade for Hishon and Siemens. Struggling prospect for struggling prospect type deal.

The only way I see Bleackley traded is if it's a package deal with another player to get an upgrade on a current position on the team.

 

[dahrougem2]

I maintain my Hensick + Wolski prediction

 

[Bubba Thudd]

I expect he'll get signed.

 

[CB Joe]

Not if they haven't made him an offer. That player they'd get at 53 with two less years of development time will be so much more valuable. This org has so many forward prospects that they can just afford to get rid of their best one (mikko is not a prospect for long)

They weren't fond of him but played him in 3 preseason games

I said not fond of his conditioning, not him in general. He still hasn't been signed yet, so there is clearly something causing hesitation for the Avs. I'm guessing it's his conditioning.

Just because the Avs have a shallow forward prospect pool doesn't mean they have to keep him. If they have soured on him and no longer view him as a top prospect of theirs then they have to move on. Some times you have to know when to walk away. (Hishon, probably Siemens now too.) redrafting in the late second and losing two years of development isn't the end of the world, the Avs can still get a good player at that spot.

 

[tigervixxxen]

The alternative to keeping him is doing what? Signing Garret Meurs again? Signing an undrafted player? There's no downside to giving a first round pick development time before he's hit 20 years old. They haven't signed anyone else from that class either.

 

[CB Joe]

The alternative to keeping him is doing what? Signing Garret Meurs again? Signing an undrafted player? There's no downside to giving a first round pick development time before he's hit 20 years old. They haven't signed anyone else from that class either.

Where he was drafted doesn't matter anymore. If the Avs don't like him anymore than move on.

 

[henchman21]

I don't see the point of letting him walk. I'm not an asset management person, nor do the Avs really operate that way... but they would package him up for a player or sign him before letting him walk.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Where he was drafted doesn't matter anymore. If the Avs don't like him anymore than move on.

And that can be determined at 19 years old? He wouldn't be at least a decent AHL player and better than the next best alternative? And he played well in the preseason and gave him 3 games but just don't care for him at all? When you are one year out of being drafted it does matter. It's not like he's 24 years old and has had many years in the organization.

 

[CB Joe]

And that can be determined at 19 years old?

Yes, it happens all the time.

He wouldn't be at least a decent AHL player and better than the next best alternative? And he played well in the preseason and gave him 3 games but just don't care for him at all? When you are one year out of being drafted it does matter. It's not like he's 24 years old and has had many years in the organization.

Yes. he adds some depth, but maybe they Avs want to move him for something they like more.

 

[Bender]

Yes, it happens all the time.


Yes. he adds some depth, but maybe they Avs want to move him for something they like more.

CB Joe is right. It certainly does happen. The Hurricanes traded away former first round pick Philippe Paradis (27th overall) for Jiri Tlusty only 6 months after he was drafted. For whatever reason, they figured they made a mistake. Tlusty went on to have productive years while Paradis is a career AHLer.

The Avs will need to continue to evaluate his progress and his value throughout the league and come up with a gameplan.

Put it this way, if you could trade Joey Hishon for a 2nd round pick, would you do it right now? I'm going to guess that there's a pretty good majority that WOULD at this point.

If the Avs don't sign him and can't find enough interest from another team, they really have to ask themselves is he worth more than a late 2nd round pick? If the answer is no, then NOT signing him is probably the best course of action.

Again, this all leads me to believe that this was Pracey's pick (while Scherbak was still on the board ) and that the Avs were very pissed with what he showed in camp that first time around and it eventually led to Pracey's firing.

 

[AslanRH]

I think people worry too much.

No rush to sign Bleakley as he isn't playing for the team this season anyway. This camp sounds like it was miles better for him than the first. I could see the FO wanting to see if his fitness, work habits, etc carry over into his regular day to day season first.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

CB Joe is right. It certainly does happen. The Hurricanes traded away former first round pick Philippe Paradis (27th overall) for Jiri Tlusty only 6 months after he was drafted. For whatever reason, they figured they made a mistake. Tlusty went on to have productive years while Paradis is a career AHLer.

The Avs will need to continue to evaluate his progress and his value throughout the league and come up with a gameplan.

Put it this way, if you could trade Joey Hishon for a 2nd round pick, would you do it right now? I'm going to guess that there's a pretty good majority that WOULD at this point.

If the Avs don't sign him and can't find enough interest from another team, they really have to ask themselves is he worth more than a late 2nd round pick? If the answer is no, then NOT signing him is probably the best course of action.

Again, this all leads me to believe that this was Pracey's pick (while Scherbak was still on the board ) and that the Avs were very pissed with what he showed in camp that first time around and it eventually led to Pracey's firing.

How can you possible compare Bleackley to Hishon? Hishon has basically proven he has no place here and has always had the size issues to overcome. It's a little different giving up on a guy after 5 years as oppose to just 2 camps, one in which the player looked pretty damn good.

All this? All what? Neither Paradis nor Hishon have anything to do with their thoughts on Bleackley.

The idea that Bleackley was only a Pracey pick is ridiculous. He isn't undersized. He isn't a character only player. He isnt a guy who relies a ton on fancy puck skills. He plays a high effort 2way game, has a tremendous shot (something we need going forward), is also a high character guy and plays a style that should translate to pros quite well. This sounds a lot like a Roy/Sakic pick. Skinny Scherbak with his fancy puck skills and need to develop in other areas seems more like a Pracey pick.

As for getting Pracey fired, seems Roy and Sakic have been very open about why he got fired - he drafted similar players back to back and didn't put any emphasis on size/grit.

 

[Bender]

How can you possible compare Bleackley to Hishon? Hishon has basically proven he has no place here and has always had the size issues to overcome. It's a little different giving up on a guy after 5 years as oppose to just 2 camps, one in which the player looked pretty damn good.

All this? All what? Neither Paradis nor Hishon have anything to do with their thoughts on Bleackley.

The idea that Bleackley was only a Pracey pick is ridiculous. He isn't undersized. He isn't a character only player. He isnt a guy who relies a ton on fancy puck skills. He plays a high effort 2way game, has a tremendous shot (something we need going forward), is also a high character guy and plays a style that should translate to pros quite well. This sounds a lot like a Roy/Sakic pick. Skinny Scherbak with his fancy puck skills and need to develop in other areas seems more like a Pracey pick.

As for getting Pracey fired, seems Roy and Sakic have been very open about why he got fired - he drafted similar players back to back and didn't put any emphasis on size/grit.

[MOD]

I'm comparing Hishon to Bleackley because THREE ****ing years ago, many, MANY people on HF boards were pencilling him in, just like they are doing with Bleackley right now. Then, 3 years go by and we would prefer a 2nd round pick to keeping the guy MANY had pencilled into a top-6 role back then.

You're right, Hishon and Bleackley are in no way comparable AS PLAYERS but they were BOTH 1st round picks (so was Paradis) and THAT'S the COMPARABLE I WAS MAKING! Because there is a little rule about 1st round picks in the NHL, that if you can't come to terms with them, you are awarded a 2nd round pick in the upcoming draft.

[MOD] the fact that the Avs have MacK, Duchene and Soderberg as centers 1-2-3 likely for the next FIVE YEARS, maybe keeping Bleackley isn't a priority. Maybe he has GREAT value around the league and we can get immediate help? Maybe he doesn't and the Avs prefer to take the 2nd in what looks like will be a better draft than what 2014 was.

[MOD]

 

[tigervixxxen]

Dial back the condescending tone please.

Hishon is five years out of his draft year, Bleackley is one. If I could go back and trade Hishon for a second one year out of draft year I wouldn't do it. Plus the fact is an offer has to be made to get that compensation.

This whole BS is only because of the contract and they haven't even signed ANYONE else. We don't even know what the hell their policy is. There is absolutely no reason to have concerns about him as a player considering that he performed well in preseason. That should be the story here. This whole thing is a ridiculous load of BS that isn't founded in any sort if reality other than perceptions and guesses. Like I said I know he's not a perfect prospect but look at who else we have at forward on ELC and don't try to tell me Bleackley doesn't at minimum belong there.

If the Avs make their development decisions based off of who they have in the roster today then they deserve to fail. They desperately need forwards in the pipeline. They didn't even add one forward in the pro pipeline this year. I'm not counting Martinsen. They have even fewer centers. No organization can afford to have zero NHL prospects at center in their pipeline.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

[MOD]

I'm comparing Hishon to Bleackley because THREE ****ing years ago, many, MANY people on HF boards were pencilling him in, just like they are doing with Bleackley right now. Then, 3 years go by and we would prefer a 2nd round pick to keeping the guy MANY had pencilled into a top-6 role back then.

You're right, Hishon and Bleackley are in no way comparable AS PLAYERS but they were BOTH 1st round picks (so was Paradis) and THAT'S the COMPARABLE I WAS MAKING! Because there is a little rule about 1st round picks in the NHL, that if you can't come to terms with them, you are awarded a 2nd round pick in the upcoming draft.

[MOD] the fact that the Avs have MacK, Duchene and Soderberg as centers 1-2-3 likely for the next FIVE YEARS, maybe keeping Bleackley isn't a priority. Maybe he has GREAT value around the league and we can get immediate help? Maybe he doesn't and the Avs prefer to take the 2nd in what looks like will be a better draft than what 2014 was.

[MOD]

[MOD]

Who is penciling in Bleackley? As for 3 years ago, things have changed quite a bit. The roster had a lot less talent on it then than it does now. Im sure most fans were wanting any sort of change.

Hindsight is 20/20. You can't compare a failed prospect 5 years out of the draft, regardless of what some people thought after the 2nd camp, to a guy who is still in Jr and hasn't even had a chance to prove himself yet. just because Hishon didn't work out doesn't mean Bleackley won't. I'm sure there are tons of examples of guys who finally proved to belong at this level after years of fans saying they should play. Bleackley is his own person. His outcome has absolutely nothing to do with how other prospects faired. Other prospects' outcomes have nothing to do with how our staff views Bleackley. You just can't point to other prospects to try and prove they don't like Bleackley.

Who said anything about him being a priority? There is a big difference between giving up on a guy after 2 camps and making him a priority. There is a huge area in between. Just because we have 3 centers currently doesn't mean a thing. Someone could get traded. Someone, including Bleackley, could get switched to the wing. And there are 4 center positions on a team that need to be filled. You need guys in the pipeline regardless of how the current team looks.

Or maybe the Avs actually like him and you guys are getting all worried that they don't like him for no reason. There is really no evidence showing they don't like him. So what if they criticized his conditioning after the first camp. That's why these kids go to the camp, so they can be judged and told what they need to work on. Conditioning is a problem for a ton of kids. Most think they are in great condition playing against other kids, but it's a totally different game at the pro level. Did the staff bash his conditioning again this year? Did they say anything bad about him at all? And the whole contract thing is being way overblown. Lots of guys don't have contracts yet. Do they not like that entire class?

 

[agentblack]

Can he play wing? If Greg gets extended and maybe gets molded into a solid two way C eventually replacing Soda, then Bleaker is a 4th line C?

 

[tigervixxxen]

He plays better at center but he's smart and has the body to be a winger for sure if that's where they want him. I think he could be a realistic option to replace Mitchell at 4C in 2017-18. He'll be cheaper than any bum we could sign and after a year in the AHL would probably be ready for it.

 

[spiller19]

He will get signed this is silly. He's looked awesome in the 2 games I've seen him play in RD this year. No way they would just let him walk

 

[agentblack]

He plays better at center but he's smart and has the body to be a winger for sure if that's where they want him. I think he could be a realistic option to replace Mitchell at 4C in 2017-18. He'll be cheaper than any bum we could sign and after a year in the AHL would probably be ready for it.

I dont know, I mean its still a couple years away but I feel like Roy and other coaches wants a mainstay vet presence for the 4th line. An older player you can get rid of every so often, Like a Redshirt on Star Trek, lol
If Bleaks is there wont he be almost "too good" for that kind of duty? depending on the tasks thats typically required of a 4C

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I dont know, I mean its still a couple years away but I feel like Roy and other coaches wants a mainstay vet presence for the 4th line. An older player you can get rid of every so often, Like a Redshirt on Star Trek, lol
If Bleaks is there wont he be almost "too good" for that kind of duty? depending on the tasks thats typically required of a 4C

We want guys who are too good for their roles. Just look at the past couple cup winning teams' 4th lines. This would be a great problem to have.

They probably do like having a vet prescense, but I don't think it neccessarily has to be at C.

 

[agentblack]

We want guys who are too good for their roles. Just look at the past couple cup winning teams' 4th lines. This would be a great problem to have.

They probably do like having a vet prescense, but I don't think it neccessarily has to be at C.

Yeah the Hawks had Kruger as a 4C last year right? So I guess if Bleaks is content with that role its fine. If his skillset remains at certain level and we have better options on that 3rd C spot, should work.

 

[Bender]

Dial back the condescending tone please.

Hishon is five years out of his draft year, Bleackley is one. If I could go back and trade Hishon for a second one year out of draft year I wouldn't do it. Plus the fact is an offer has to be made to get that compensation.

This whole BS is only because of the contract and they haven't even signed ANYONE else. We don't even know what the hell their policy is. There is absolutely no reason to have concerns about him as a player considering that he performed well in preseason. That should be the story here. This whole thing is a ridiculous load of BS that isn't founded in any sort if reality other than perceptions and guesses. Like I said I know he's not a perfect prospect but look at who else we have at forward on ELC and don't try to tell me Bleackley doesn't at minimum belong there.

If the Avs make their development decisions based off of who they have in the roster today then they deserve to fail. They desperately need forwards in the pipeline. They didn't even add one forward in the pro pipeline this year. I'm not counting Martinsen. They have even fewer centers. No organization can afford to have zero NHL prospects at center in their pipeline.

I apologize for the tone.

For your first point, that's neither here nor there. I'm not expecting a 'perfect prospect, hell, I saw him as a player who would end up as a 3rd line center at best during his draft year, I knew full well what we were getting when we drafted him.

Where did you get the information that an offer has to be made? That's the first I've heard of this.

Compensatory Picks: If a team does not sign their first-round pick within two years, they will be awarded a compensatory pick in the Draft immediately following. The pick will be in the 2nd round, equal to the selection number of the unsigned player. All other teams' selections move back one spot.​

It has very little with "who else" we have at center in the organization. The Avs picked up a kid like Freddie Hamilton for a scrub and ended up shipping him off. We have Colin Smith and Hishon who probably won't end up as NHL regulars. We could go into the 2016 draft and come out with 2 centers with our 1st and 2nd round picks.
There...pipeline replenished.

Beaudin & Nantel could both end up being centers. Organizations end up having a bunch of centers who go through it all the while never making the NHL all the time. I'm not saying it's great or even ideal but it certainly does happen...often.

[MOD]

Who is penciling in Bleackley? As for 3 years ago, things have changed quite a bit. The roster had a lot less talent on it then than it does now. Im sure most fans were wanting any sort of change.

Hindsight is 20/20. You can't compare a failed prospect 5 years out of the draft, regardless of what some people thought after the 2nd camp, to a guy who is still in Jr and hasn't even had a chance to prove himself yet. just because Hishon didn't work out doesn't mean Bleackley won't. I'm sure there are tons of examples of guys who finally proved to belong at this level after years of fans saying they should play. Bleackley is his own person. His outcome has absolutely nothing to do with how other prospects faired. Other prospects' outcomes have nothing to do with how our staff views Bleackley. You just can't point to other prospects to try and prove they don't like Bleackley.

Who said anything about him being a priority? There is a big difference between giving up on a guy after 2 camps and making him a priority. There is a huge area in between. Just because we have 3 centers currently doesn't mean a thing. Someone could get traded. Someone, including Bleackley, could get switched to the wing. And there are 4 center positions on a team that need to be filled. You need guys in the pipeline regardless of how the current team looks.

Or maybe the Avs actually like him and you guys are getting all worried that they don't like him for no reason. There is really no evidence showing they don't like him. So what if they criticized his conditioning after the first camp. That's why these kids go to the camp, so they can be judged and told what they need to work on. Conditioning is a problem for a ton of kids. Most think they are in great condition playing against other kids, but it's a totally different game at the pro level. Did the staff bash his conditioning again this year? Did they say anything bad about him at all? And the whole contract thing is being way overblown. Lots of guys don't have contracts yet. Do they not like that entire class?

You keep missing the point. You seem to think that because I believe there is a chance he'll be traded, I'm bashing him/saying he sucks or NEEDS to be traded. That's not the case at all. I'm saying he's an asset that has a certain value and if the Avs (THE AVS - NOT ME) don't think his future is with this club, he's a logical target that could be traded for immediate help.

The only reason I bring up Hishon is because at this particular juncture, he's NOT an NHL player and he likely will not end up being one, at least not on the Avs. I fully realize that we've had 5 years to evaluate him...my only point is that just because the kid is a 1st round pick, it doesn't mean he will necessarily turn out to be great.

Now, AGAIN, I'm not suggesting the Avs think Bleackley sucks, I'm not suggesting he has no value but when you essentially have the center position locked up for the next 5 years, you might very well decide to trade away an asset for immediate help or for a prospect who better fits your organizational needs (winger).

It's also why I brought up Paradis. To show that hey, it DOES happen and team give up on prospects for various reasons, many of which we don't even know why. I'm not suggesting that Bleackley = Paradis in case you are reading this diagonally...that's not the point.

Now, I'm not personally saying Bleackley has Great or Bad value because I don't know how other team feel about him. And I don't even know how much the Avs themselves value him...I have no idea where they have him lined up in their future plans.

The one thing I do know is that if for whatever reason we don't come to terms with him and he re-enters the draft, we would get a 2nd round pick as compensation. I'm not saying it's the right call to make (at this point) or even that the Avs would entertain such a notion but that is certainly an option that they DO have. [That would need to mean that his value throughout the league of 29 other teams is LESS than a very late 2nd round pick]

 

[agentblack]

It wouldnt surprise me to see a Bleaker --Scherbak swap. Pleks and DD in MTL are kinda up in the air as far as their future and they could use a natural C prospect. I know they have McCarron ? but I think he was a winger. And umm to say our RW pipeline is weak is an understatement.