Will Matt Finn be a more valuable player then Jake Gardiner?

[agropop]

You asked the question, whether I thought Gardiner was good or not. We are trying to be a team that competes against the best, the best this year is LA and NY.

For most, you want to strive to be as good as the best, this is what LA and NY have to do with the discussion. Pretty self explanatory, maybe some of us want to avoid the truth that Gardiner is not that good after all.

Are you saying Gardiner is good on the 26th GA team in the NHL, the 8th worst team in the NHL? Okay, maybe he is good for a bad team. But he is not good when you see where he ranks on LA or NY.

I think you should replace Gardiner with Bozak and argue with yourself.

 

[HonestHockey*]

I am shocked at the amount of people that think Gardiner is a quality NHLer.

 

[Mess]

I am shocked at the amount of people that think Gardiner is a quality NHLer.

Of course Gardiner is a quality NHLer.

Like most players however he has his strengths and weaknesses.

 

[ULF_55]

I am shocked at the amount of people that think Gardiner is a quality NHLer.

Of course Gardiner is a quality NHLer.

Like most players however he has his strengths and weaknesses.

At this point it seems Finn might be the on the overrated category of Leafs' prospects.

Perhaps this goes back to the he's a first rounder who fell to the 2nd. round argument?

If you're selected in the 2nd. round doesn't that make you a 2nd. rounder?

Anyway, I don't believe he was in the top 3 for best OHL defender was he? I recall comments about him being robbed or something? Anyway, at what point do we accept that when he is continuously snubbed by various people/groups/evaluators that maybe everyone can't continuously be wrong?

He's probably a good pick, heck, only 24 players from his draft have played so it isn't like there is a lot of evidence to suggest he'll ever be a NHL player anymore than there is for the other 187 or so players selected in 2012.

IMO Jake has more value to NHL teams because even if he was the worst defender, he's still be a NHL defender (rover ).

 

[Mess]

At this point it seems Finn might be the on the overrated category of Leafs' prospects.

Perhaps this goes back to the he's a first rounder who fell to the 2nd. round argument?

If you're selected in the 2nd. round doesn't that make you a 2nd. rounder?

Anyway, I don't believe he was in the top 3 for best OHL defender was he? I recall comments about him being robbed or something? .

Matt Finn was named to the 3rd All-Star team in the OHL this year. (http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/article/ohl-announces-2013-14-all-star-teams)

His foot speed and mobility kept him off of Team Canada for the WJC on big international ice. It's something he will need to improve on to be successful at the NHL level where skating has become a premium.

Aaron Ekblad was named the OHL best defenseman this year.

Finn however won the 'Captains award"

Storm's Matt Finn Awarded 2013-14 Mickey Renaud Captain’s Trophy

The Ontario Hockey League today announced that Toronto Maple Leafs prospect Matt Finn is the 2014-14 recipient of the Mickey Renaud Captain’s Trophy.

Finn was chosen for the award by a media selection committee as the OHL team captain that best exemplifies leadership on and off the ice, with a passion and dedication to the game of hockey and his community that Mickey demonstrated.

"It's a huge honour to win this award,” Finn said. “From what I've heard, Mickey Renaud was not only a great hockey player but an even better person and leader on and off the ice. To win an award in his name is very humbling.”

A four-year member of the Storm, Finn served as team captain the past two seasons and was an alternate captain in 2011-12. The 20-year-old Toronto native led the Storm to their fourth Hamilton Spectator Trophy as regular season champions with their best season in franchise history with 52 wins and 108 points before capturing their third Robertson Cup title as 2013-14 OHL Champions.

Full Story: http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/...warded-2013-14-mickey-renaud-captain-s-trophy

 

[HonestHockey*]

Of course Gardiner is a quality NHLer.

Like most players however he has his strengths and weaknesses.

Strengths: He skates fast.

Weaknesses: To many to list.

 

[IAmBobo]

Not sure what y'all smoking, but Gardiner is terrible at the moment.
I don't care about your crystal ball about their "future". All leafs defense prospect are pretty bad defensively.

 

[Mess]

Not sure what y'all smoking, but Gardiner is terrible at the moment.
I don't care about your crystal ball about their "future". All leafs defense prospect are pretty bad defensively.

Actually defense is a strength of Leafs defensive prospects in the system.

Finn, Granberg, Holzer, Percy etc are all better defensively then they are offensively. Many play a very safe structure positional game.

Gardiner and Rielly are the offensive Dmen that struggle defensively.

 

[Super Mega]

Actually defense is a strength of Leafs defensive prospects in the system.

Finn, Granberg, Holzer, Percy etc are all better defensively then they are offensively. Many play a very safe structure positional game.

Gardiner and Rielly are the offensive Dmen that struggle defensively.

None of those 4 have proven anything at the NHL level though. Its possible all will "struggle defensively" when they get to the pros. Gardiner tore up the AHL and I am confident Rielly would have as well. Why do you think Holland was such a stand out in the AHL but is tough to crack NHL roster in toronto and anaheim?

as to Finn, I live in Guelph, big storm fan, caught many games including playoffs/memcup. I love Matt Finn and have some obvious bias but HFboards is wildly overrating him right now

 

[ULF_55]

Matt Finn was named to the 3rd All-Star team in the OHL this year. (http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/article/ohl-announces-2013-14-all-star-teams)

His foot speed and mobility kept him off of Team Canada for the WJC on big international ice. It's something he will need to improve on to be successful at the NHL level where skating has become a premium.

Aaron Ekblad was named the OHL best defenseman this year.

Finn however won the 'Captains award"

So he was considered 5th.-6th. best junior defender in the OHL?

That's pretty good.

http://www.oshawagenerals.com/article/ohl-announces-2013-14-all-star-teams

2013-14 OHL All-Star Teams (voting points in brackets):

1st All-Star Team:
C – Scott Laughton, Oshawa Generals (62)
LW – Dane Fox, Erie Otters (83)
RW – Connor Brown, Erie Otters (88)
D – Aaron Ekblad, Barrie Colts (93)
D – Slater Koekkoek, Windsor Spitfires (55)
G – Alex Nedeljkovic, Plymouth Whalers (67)
Coach – DJ Smith, Oshawa Generals (48)

2nd All-Star Team:
C – Connor McDavid, Erie Otters (61)
LW – Michael Dal Colle, Oshawa Generals (28)
RW – Scott Kosmachuk, Guelph Storm (50)
D – Adam Pelech, Erie Otters (52)
D – Nikita Zadorov, London Knights (51)
G – Matt Murray, Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds (57)
Coach – Kris Knoblauch, Erie Otters (47)

3rd All-Star Team:
C – Sam Bennett, Kingston Frontenacs (38)
LW – Max Domi, London Knights (23)
RW – Nick Baptiste, Sudbury Wolves (19)
D – Darnell Nurse, Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds (34)
D – Matt Finn, Guelph Storm (27)
G – Oscar Dansk, Erie Otters (29)
Coach – Scott Walker, Guelph Storm (38)

 

[leafs in five]

Just possessing the puck is not a recipe for success. Again, I don't think anyone would argue the good corsi team of Blake, Ponikarovsky, Grabovski, Hagman, Stajan, were anything better than the team we have now, they were far worse.

what makes you say that this team better? surely not the results, right?

 

[mikebel111*]

Thought I would bump this
This thread looks pretty funny now. As a big Finn fan(no I am not his dad), I even said that I highly doubt he would be better than Gardiner and look Finn isnt in the organization anymore

Well so much for Finn can play on a championship or great team like the Rangers over Gardiner

 

[Purity*]

Thought I would bump this
This thread looks pretty funny now. As a big Finn fan(no I am not his dad), I even said that I highly doubt he would be better than Gardiner and look Finn isnt in the organization anymore

Well so much for Finn can play on a championship or great team like the Rangers over Gardiner

Thanks for the bump, had a pretty good laugh reading this thread

 

[Stringer Bell]

Thought I would bump this
This thread looks pretty funny now. As a big Finn fan(no I am not his dad), I even said that I highly doubt he would be better than Gardiner and look Finn isnt in the organization anymore

Well so much for Finn can play on a championship or great team like the Rangers over Gardiner

I can't tell if you're trying to pat yourself on the back for being right or admit to being a hypocrite. It's all very confusing.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I would not close the book on Matt Finn. The Leafs once gave up on a player named Craig Muni because he was apparently not a good skater for them, but he was for the Cup winning Oilers.

He became a very serviceable D man. Anyone that thinks the Leafs just gave away roster spots without risk are not being realistic.

Prospects are unknowns, they may come back to bite you when you trade them. That's the risk of dealing young players under 21.

Finn has the head and heart for the game, it wouldn't surprise me if he found a way to make the NHL one day.

But to answer the OP. Give Finn Gardiner's legs or Gardiner Finn's brains, and you would have a pretty good player.

 

[mikebel111*]

I can't tell if you're trying to pat yourself on the back for being right or admit to being a hypocrite. It's all very confusing.

Hypocrite? Are you sure your not talking about some guy named string.........you get the picture
I am not the one to bragg oh I was right or even insult others(as Chris Pratt said in Jurrasic world, "you could relate to one of those things, right?)

I said I didnt believe Finn would ever reach Gardiner level, and look so far I along with others who share my opinion seem to be right. Funny how someone like me who apparently "doesnt know anything about hockey" can be correct. Wierd I know

Also I guess your not happy I was right or your just as usual picking apart my posts. I cant tell what yoyr trying between those 2.
Its really confusing

 

[mikebel111*]

I would not close the book on Matt Finn. The Leafs once gave up on a player named Craig Muni because he was apparently not a good skater for them, but he was for the Cup winning Oilers.

He became a very serviceable D man. Anyone that thinks the Leafs just gave away roster spots without risk are not being realistic.

Prospects are unknowns, they may come back to bite you when you trade them. That's the risk of dealing young players under 21.

Finn has the head and heart for the game, it wouldn't surprise me if he found a way to make the NHL one day.

But to answer the OP. Give Finn Gardiner's legs or Gardiner Finn's brains, and you would have a pretty good player.

I think Finn will find a way. He has too much determination not too
However saying he is better than Gardiner and thus can play on a team like the Rangers over Jake isnt right at all

 

[34]

Gardiner is way better than Finn in every aspect. No loss.

 

[Stringer Bell]

You just seem to be congratulating yourself for predicting that Finn wouldn't be as good as Gardiner while using Finn being shipped out as supporting evidence...which is odd considering you have always been Finn's biggest champion going as far as to berate anyone for giving up on him. That's all. Odd.

 

[MJ65]

I haven't seen any thing in Finn to suggest if he is going to be a better D, I am not sure even if he can make it as 5th / 6th D on regular basis and I really don't care as he is gone now

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I think Finn will find a way. He has too much determination not too
However saying he is better than Gardiner and thus can play on a team like the Rangers over Jake isnt right at all

I thought Finn was going to be a really big piece here when we drafted him. Maybe a change of scenery will help him. He has all the tools to be a NHL D man.

The skating has always been his Achilles heal. He needs to find a way to improve this. If not he needs a way to play within himself to be effective.

He's only 21. There is still time. But at this stage, he looks like a longer range project.

 

[Gabriel426]

I just think the Leafs got better Dman prospects than a yr ago with Harrington, Dermott and Nielsen. Then The development of Percy and Granberg. Not to mention Morgan and Jake on the Leafs already.

 

[Menzinger]

Finn may yet make the NHL but it's pretty clear who the superior player is.

 

[mikebel111*]

You just seem to be congratulating yourself for predicting that Finn wouldn't be as good as Gardiner while using Finn being shipped out as supporting evidence...which is odd considering you have always been Finn's biggest champion going as far as to berate anyone for giving up on him. That's all. Odd.

Yes I am. And I aint the only one who does it. But good for you for having such knowledge. And no I dont berate anyone(like I said the one who does that is String.......you get the picture)
I just dont feel giving up on a 21 year old is good but if saying berating makes you feel good than go ahead

Its still confusing what your saying

 

[Purity*]

I thought Finn was going to be a really big piece here when we drafted him. Maybe a change of scenery will help him. He has all the tools to be a NHL D man.

The skating has always been his Achilles heal. He needs to find a way to improve this. If not he needs a way to play within himself to be effective.

He's only 21. There is still time. But at this stage, he looks like a longer range project.

you don't need to be a great skater to succeed in the NHL to succeed as a D-man but you do need a significantly higher than average IQ in order to make up for it. I don't think Finn has that level of IQ.