Will Crosby ever win the Selke?

[dalewood12]

Crosby's two-way game has improved in the last few years, with some speculating that he could be a contender.

Click to read more...

 

[Midnight Judges]

Crosby has never shut anyone down, he is deployed overwhelmingly for offense, and he doesn't kill penalties.

The Canadian media flat out lies for him - pretending he does these things. It is bizarre to watch.

 

[BruinsBtn]

No one who doesn't kill penalties should ever win the Selke. Period.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

A deserved one? Hell no

Will the media give him one because its Crosby? Probably

 

[Regal]

I dont think so. There's a sector of the analytic crowd that likes to push it but I think there's too many other voters who realize that while he has a good impact 5v5 in terms of limiting shots and chances against, due to his possession game, his actual in-zone defense isn't elite and he isn't deployed to shut anyone down or on the PK either. He is very good at tilting the ice 5v5, but that's not the same thing. If he has a year like 18-19 again, and maybe the usual suspects have off years or injuries, the voters might do an undeserving legacy award kind of thing, but I don't think that's likely.

 

[Gurglesons]

I imagine at some point in his late career he gets one.

 

[nowhereman]

For a guy who's had everything handed to him via a Canadian media conspiracy, he's managed to put up a pretty decent career for such a schlub. To the point where he's managed to fool his peers, coaches, GMs, and all-time legends like Scotty Bowman into thinking he's actually a good two-way player.

Thankfully, we have the unbiased minds at HFBoards to set the record straight.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

If he ever gets one I think it’d be more because of his name rather than his actual defensive results

 

[Czech Your Math]

If he ever gets one I think it’d be more because of his name rather than his actual defensive results

"Crosby is playing some good two way hockey" = "he's having trouble putting up points"

 

[vancityluongo]

It's not just Crosby haha. The whole sport tries to convince anyone listening that players are actually better in their early 30's than in the mid 20's.

Dunno if it's just denial about aging or they need a narrative to explain the tangibly dried up offensive numbers. But it turns into "they sacrificed offense to become better overall!!!"

Not sure if Crosby will actually get a top-3 finish, but I think he'll start to get more votes as his offensive output starts to go down.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

"Crosby is playing some good two way hockey" = "he's having trouble putting up points"

Exactly. And thats not just Crosby, thats a lot of "2-way" players.

Its really sad to see a fanbase defend their young struggling player by just attaching "he's solid defensively" label to him. Just because a forward sucks offensively doesn't mean their good in their own end

 

[JaegerDice]

Given his current deployment and offensive output, I think it's more likely the voters would just put his name into Hart consideration than Selke consideration. Some local and/or analytically inclined voters may do both, but probably not enough.

However, as Crosby ages and his offense diminishes, it's possible that he reframes his game into a more defensive role. What does a less offensive Crosby score from tougher zone deployment and matchups? 60 points? If he scores 60ish and is being used as more of a shutdown/matchup center I could see him getting one later in his career as he transitions his game to a new role.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

If the PHWA decides Crosby needs a Selke, he'll get one.

 

[JaegerDice]

If the PHWA decides Crosby needs a Selke, he'll get one.

If this is the way people feel about awards, then why does everybody on HFBoards seem to put such a premium on Hart trophy wins, or nominations, etc?

If it really just comes down to idiots voting in a herd mentality for their selected golden boy, why the hell should any of us care about any award voted on by any group?

 

[jetsforever]

Seems unlikely at this point

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Not if his last game is any indicator.

 

[Fataldogg]

Nope, and he never will. He won't deserve one either. Defensively, he isn't as good as the upper echelon defensive centers.

 

[Steven Toast]

He may fluke his way to a nomination but he will never win. I've never understood this hyping of his defensive game. Hes solid defensively, hardly Selke worthy. I've seen him unironically called one of the best defensive players on the planet. Probably a symptom of a generational player slowing down. Many still want to hype him but can't rely on offensive production anymore.

 

[Samsquanch]

He was Selke worthy in his prime - at least in the sense that he faced the toughest minutes/matchups in the NHL and came out on top in every battle. You cant shut anyone down if you are the focus of the entire leagues shut-down strategy...

Claude Giroux was the closest any player in the NHLs history that came close to playing POWER vs POWER and legit out-duel him. None of the selke winners can hope to come as close to that as Giroux did - they are at best a wet blanket in a head to head showdown with Sid - and will not be relied upon for any offense whatsoever.

 

[bobholly39]

For a guy who's had everything handed to him via a Canadian media conspiracy, he's managed to put up a pretty decent career for such a schlub. To the point where he's managed to fool his peers, coaches, GMs, and all-time legends like Scotty Bowman into thinking he's actually a good two-way player.

Thankfully, we have the unbiased minds at HFBoards to set the record straight.

Don't be such a homer. The only reason he's ever won Art Ross trophies or Stanley Cups is due to Canadian media bias.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

No.

And he shouldn't.

 

[Kaner9]

I think he will when his offense is down. Not that hell actually be the best defensive F but he can get the award.

 

[Emerz]

He was Selke worthy in his prime - at least in the sense that he faced the toughest minutes/matchups in the NHL and came out on top in every battle. You cant shut anyone down if you are the focus of the entire leagues shut-down strategy...

Claude Giroux was the closest any player in the NHLs history that came close to playing POWER vs POWER and legit out-duel him. None of the selke winners can hope to come as close to that as Giroux did - they are at best a wet blanket in a head to head showdown with Sid - and will not be relied upon for any offense whatsoever.

Bergeron has done fine against Crosby, not sure what makes you think that for some reason Giroux is the only player who's ever played Crosby hard. I don't think Crosby registered a point in the Bruins ECF sweep.

To answer the thread - I can't personally see it myself, but we shall see.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

He was Selke worthy in his prime - at least in the sense that he faced the toughest minutes/matchups in the NHL and came out on top in every battle. You cant shut anyone down if you are the focus of the entire leagues shut-down strategy...

Claude Giroux was the closest any player in the NHLs history that came close to playing POWER vs POWER and legit out-duel him. None of the selke winners can hope to come as close to that as Giroux did - they are at best a wet blanket in a head to head showdown with Sid - and will not be relied upon for any offense whatsoever.

Out dueling someone in a matchup doesn’t mean you’re Selke worthy. That just means you’re better in that matchup. Gretzky outdueling Mario 6-5 in a game doesn’t mean Gretzky is Selke worthy.

To copy what I posted in a recent thread where someone said Crosby would never win a Selke simply because it’s a reputation award and Bergeron has a better reputation:

Respectfully, this is such nonsense. Crosby has never and will never come close to beating Bergeron (or anyone) for a Selke because Crosby has never been and will never be close to Bergeron (or anyone who’s elite) defensively.

In the past 3 (shortened) seasons, Bergeron has been on the ice for 45 less even strength goals against despite playing in 5 more games than Crosby.

Crosby was on the ice for 45 even strength goals against this yr in 55 games. To put that into perspective, Bergeron, Datsyuk, and Kopitar were on the ice for an average of 41 even strength goals against during their first Selke wins. Not in 55 games though, in 82 games.

Just because Crosby became more defensively conscious the past handful of years doesn’t mean he’s actually become anywhere near elite at it. He hasn’t. Stop this nonsense myth.

 

[biturbo19]

Nah. Deserved or not (and it's not, in his case), it's a reputation award, and Crosby has too strong of a reputation as an "offensive player". That pretty much overrides any legitimate Selke talk - an award that is reserved more for the "top offensive players, who aren't real Art Ross contenders and have a few good defensive stats".