Confirmed with Link: Will Butcher wins Hobey Baker Award

[henchman21]

Right after watching the B&W game last year, I thought Lindholm would get a few games. His style is just too lovable for coaches.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

He's not going to get more money or a better chance to play anywhere else, so, IMO, this is either nothing more than the kid being bitter and giving the Avs the finger because they apparently said they weren't interested in signing him a couple years ago, or he want's to play with a team that can win now, not 3-4-5 years from now.

 

[dahrougem2]

Right after watching the B&W game last year, I thought Lindholm would get a few games. His style is just too lovable for coaches.

Slowly but surely becoming one of my favourites.

 

[chet1926]

He's not going to get more money or a better chance to play anywhere else, so, IMO, this is either nothing more than the kid being bitter and giving the Avs the finger because they apparently said they weren't interested in signing him a couple years ago, or he want's to play with a team that can win now, not 3-4-5 years from now.

I think you pretty much summed it up, if he can't crack the Avs **** poor defense he isn't cracking anyone's defense. Right now he is a 2nd pairing AHL caliber guy. He has room for improvement but he is going to have to earn an NHL shot.

This is very clearly a situation of a player giving an organization the middle finger after the organization gave him the middle finger. He was never going to sign here after what Roy said to him previously. I wish Butcher had handled this with a little more class, but once again the stupid NCAA rule allows these college guys to get a big head and become a UFA and pick their team after 4 seasons.

The team that drafts you should carry your rights until the age of 26, the only way is that you become a UFA is if the team decides they aren't going to sign you. You shouldn't have to worry about players bolting because they went to college for 4 seasons.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Right after watching the B&W game last year, I thought Lindholm would get a few games. His style is just too lovable for coaches.

I was convinced after watching the preseason games and how he got better each game. Limited but smart player.

 

[henchman21]

I don't get the fervor over college kids becoming UFAs. If CHL kids wait 4 years they can have the same. Euros (with exception of Switzerland and KHL) have similar rules... some even shorter. College kids have to wait 4+ years before becoming UFAs. It is really no different. People can talk about the different exposure, but say McDavid didn't want to play for the Oilers, he could have played in the KHL, Switzerland, Sweden, etc for 2 years then got drafted again. Or OHL for another year, then moved on to the AHL then drafted again. These players all have options in the CBA, and I'd argue that college kids (because of the NCAA not NHL) have worse options. Them using this one to their advantage doesn't really bother me.

I think there are a couple places where Butcher has a better shot than Colorado. The Avs have a ****** defense, but they also have 5 spots locked up and ~6 prospects without Butcher vying for the final 2 or 3.

I was convinced after watching the preseason games and how he got better each game. Limited but smart player.

Yep... I went back and watched a number of his games from this past season this past week. I don't think his upside is that high, but I think it might be getting underrated a bit in that area.

 

[Pokecheque]

I think you pretty much summed it up, if he can't crack the Avs **** poor defense he isn't cracking anyone's defense. Right now he is a 2nd pairing AHL caliber guy. He has room for improvement but he is going to have to earn an NHL shot.

This is very clearly a situation of a player giving an organization the middle finger after the organization gave him the middle finger. He was never going to sign here after what Roy said to him previously. I wish Butcher had handled this with a little more class, but once again the stupid NCAA rule allows these college guys to get a big head and become a UFA and pick their team after 4 seasons.

The team that drafts you should carry your rights until the age of 26, the only way is that you become a UFA is if the team decides they aren't going to sign you. You shouldn't have to worry about players bolting because they went to college for 4 seasons.

I dunno...it doesn't seem like a terrible system. A team has roughly four years to sign a NCAA draft pick as opposed to only one for most players taken from anywhere else. If the team really wants them, they usually succeed in signing them, much like the Avs did with Tyson Jost in the midst of their worst-ever season. If there's a strong indication that won't happen, they can trade the player's rights, like Carolina did with Jack Johnson and got a pretty decent return (Tim Gleason played nine total seasons for the Canes, including the year they won the Cup).

The NCAA free agent option allows an extra option for improvement, but it obviously carries with it a level of risk. For every Kevin Hayes and Jimmy Vesey there's a Matt Gilroy. It is a VERY small pool of kids every year where there are literally hundreds to choose from. There's also Euro free agents as well. I just don't see how this is so unfair to NHL clubs. The closest team to getting "screwed" by the Mike Van Ryn rule or whatever it is was Nashville, but hey, they still seem to be in pretty good shape.

Do I think the Avs (under Roy) mishandled things with Will Butcher? Absolutely. Do I think it was seriously detrimental to player development and organizational depth? No. Just another indication that this organization can at times be bafflingly inept. Thankfully that mistake isn't one that will likely be making fans look back in disgust for years afterward. I don't blame Butcher one bit for opting out and testing the market, but I also don't think he'll pan out as an NHL player. I hope he proves me wrong as he was one hell of a player for the Pios.

 

[cgf]

He's not going to get more money or a better chance to play anywhere else, so, IMO, this is either nothing more than the kid being bitter and giving the Avs the finger because they apparently said they weren't interested in signing him a couple years ago, or he want's to play with a team that can win now, not 3-4-5 years from now.

There's other teams who's AHL teams he could get big minutes with. This won't be true in SA next season, even if Bigras is up with the big club all season.

 

[tigervixxxen]

It's a bit much for a CHL player to go play in multiple leagues and wait it out plus getting drafted multiple times in the process. Yes technically they can do it but it's exponentially easier for a college kid to just...stay in college on their way to UFA. And you know if a CHL player ever did that and spurn two organization's what it would do to their reputation, let's not be naive to the old school mentality. Plus anyone can go play in the KHL if they want to but it's mostly Russians who pull the card.

I'd actually understand Butcher's position more if it is true that the Avs told him no thanks last year. If I was his agent I'd look at the development track record and their callup tendencies more than what NHL spots they have. I get that it doesn't happen much but once a year it seems one mid round pick, who was perfectly reasonable to complete their college career thinks they are something special and pulls this card. It just forces teams to not "respect education" and do what they can go pull these guys out and put them in the AHL. If I had my way college kids would have to declare for the draft and give up their eligibility.

 

[henchman21]

It's a bit much for a CHL player to go play in multiple leagues and wait it out plus getting drafted multiple times in the process. Yes technically they can do it but it's exponentially easier for a college kid to just...stay in college on their way to UFA. And you know if a CHL player ever did that and spurn two organization's what it would do to their reputation, let's not be naive to the old school mentality. Plus anyone can go play in the KHL if they want to but it's mostly Russians who pull the card.

I'd actually understand Butcher's position more if it is true that the Avs told him no thanks last year. If I was his agent I'd look at the development track record and their callup tendencies more than what NHL spots they have. I get that it doesn't happen much but once a year it seems one mid round pick, who was perfectly reasonable to complete their college career thinks they are something special and pulls this card. It just forces teams to not "respect education" and do what they can go pull these guys out and put them in the AHL. If I had my way college kids would have to declare for the draft and give up their eligibility.

NCAA players also don't get paid during their NCAA tenure. CHL kids get 'paid' a small amount (unless you are Patrick Kane ), and after 2 years they'd be pros. Euros obviously get paid for professional leagues. Plus they can go through the NHL club's development system free of charge. Including summer training with the best hockey and skating trainers on earth. The NCAA kids get one summer camp paid for, then the rest is out of pocket... and they get no NHL training camps. Any specialized coaches, comes out of their pocket. IMO to go the NCAA route for 4 years (sometimes longer... Clurman will be 6) then go UFA requires more personal sacrifice to go through that process. If they go through all of it (including skipping out on multiple years of professional salary), I think they should be able to choose where to go.

Teams do look down on this practice, but give them a chance to add a 'free' legit prospect they will always jump at it. Regardless of the reputation. Hell, the Flyers paid a king's ransom for Lindros.

 

[cgf]

So what you're saying is...the NCAA should stop screwing its athletes?

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

I think you pretty much summed it up, if he can't crack the Avs **** poor defense he isn't cracking anyone's defense. Right now he is a 2nd pairing AHL caliber guy. He has room for improvement but he is going to have to earn an NHL shot.

This is very clearly a situation of a player giving an organization the middle finger after the organization gave him the middle finger. He was never going to sign here after what Roy said to him previously. I wish Butcher had handled this with a little more class, but once again the stupid NCAA rule allows these college guys to get a big head and become a UFA and pick their team after 4 seasons.

The team that drafts you should carry your rights until the age of 26, the only way is that you become a UFA is if the team decides they aren't going to sign you. You shouldn't have to worry about players bolting because they went to college for 4 seasons.

As you said he has to improve to become a legit NHL player. It's not so hard to believe that a player thinking about his long term future wants to play for an organization that does a better job developing defensive prospects.

He has the choice to go to an organization that will help him develop, earn $, and possibly championships in the future. If given the choice of 31 different teams the Avs are not well regarded for developing defenders or paying those who succeed.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I hope he signs with Detroit so I can give my wife's entire family crap about him when he sucks. Even if he turns out, I can still poke fun because they don't have **** else in the pipe line. It's a win win for me.

It will also make me feel good to see him end up hitched long term to a team who is destined to become Calgary pre-Iginla trade.

 

[henchman21]

So what you're saying is...the NCAA should stop screwing its athletes?

Pretty much. Allow players to attend camps more frequently (though September camps would still be an issue with school), allow them to train with NHL teams in the summer, allow players to sign a contract but stay in school (similar to ELCs with the CHL), etc. I think things like that would go a long ways to solving the issue, but that is way more on the NCAA than it is the NHL.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Never fear good people. For the first time in a long time, our prospect pool is gaining such quality strength & depth, that the loss of someone who doesn't want to play for the best team in the league is no big deal.

He's far down the depth scale anyway.

We wants Avs people, in Avs jerseys when the tide turns and we become dominant again.

So from your perspective the Avs are the best team in the league?

 

[Pokecheque]

So what you're saying is...the NCAA should stop screwing its athletes?

Pretty much. Allow players to attend camps more frequently (though September camps would still be an issue with school), allow them to train with NHL teams in the summer, allow players to sign a contract but stay in school (similar to ELCs with the CHL), etc. I think things like that would go a long ways to solving the issue, but that is way more on the NCAA than it is the NHL.

Oh God, I could go on forever on how corrupt and screwed up the NCAA is. But I won't.

 

[tigervixxxen]

So from your perspective the Avs are the best team in the league?

What's your point in asking?

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

What's your point in asking?

I'm all for being a fan, and really hoped WB would sign with the Avs, but overlooking the dysfunction within the organization is drinking too much of the kool-aid IMO. I have a hard time feeling salty about him holding a grudge after the interaction with Roy.

Best of luck this year.

 

[Patagonia]

I'm all for being a fan, and really hoped WB would sign with the Avs, but overlooking the dysfunction within the organization is drinking too much of the kool-aid IMO. I have a hard time feeling salty about him holding a grudge after the interaction with Roy.

Best of luck this year.

Butcher is allowed under the Collective Bargaining Agreement to seek other offers after 4 years of NCAA. Consider he missed 4 years of earnings, the maximum annual is approx $925K salary + $2.85M bonuses = $3.775M annually.

He would not make anywhere near this amount, but assuming he accepted any lowball offer from the Avs. The NHL minimum is $575K per assuming he makes the team, but it's conceivable he could only earn this total amount playing in the minors on a 2-way contract for the entire 4 years.

So understand, he made this decision that is within his rights to test Free Agency. Av wasted a 5th round - #123 pick with no dedicated resources and he lost at least $525K in earnings staying in college to play 4 years for free and risk serious injury.

I know this might hurt, but he played under great risk and financial loss. Accept his decision and wish him in luck with his new team.

 

[Sea Eagles]

So from your perspective the Avs are the best team in the league?

From my perspective, yes. There's is 1,000 more about a club than just standings. Community, affinity, history, loyalty.

I would not support any other team in the NHL

 

[Balthazar]

From my perspective, yes. There's is 1,000 more about a club than just standings. Community, affinity, history, loyalty.

Being loyal doesn't mean that you need to BS yourself that your team is the best in the league when its clearly not. Pretty much everyone here on this board is extremely loyal. The "less-loyal" fans left a long time ago.

I would not support any other team in the NHL

Who said that you need to support the best team? There's a big gap between "I support the AVS" and "they are the best team in the NHL".

 

[tigervixxxen]

Let's just not go there.

Yes, Blackhawks fans enjoy when Butcher signs about 10 days from now. You're welcome.

 

[Tweaky]

Different definitions of best I think. Best as in team that is playing the best hockey right now? Of course not. Best as in team I like the best...sure, personal opinion.

But hey, lets deride anyone that posts anything that is not continuing the bash-fest.

 

[cgf]

I'm all for being a fan, and really hoped WB would sign with the Avs, but overlooking the dysfunction within the organization is drinking too much of the kool-aid IMO. I have a hard time feeling salty about him holding a grudge after the interaction with Roy.

Best of luck this year.

TBH I'm kinda glad Butcher is taking his ball & going home. I don't trust this organization not to get pressured by the fanbase into giving him NHL time, and we don't need Butcher's help with tanking. Warsofsky can help the Rampage in the AHL just as much and won't have that DU-Hobey-Baker-winner aura about him pushing casual fans to beg for him to get a chance when there's much better young dmen already in the system.

As for the organization's dysfunction, they screw a lot of things up...asset management is not a phrase they've ever heard before; building a team full of big softies for Roy to motivate only for Roy to walk out was ugly; replacing Roy with a coach who hates scoring goals and immediately banished those big softies to his dog house was a bad call; Sakic not doing more in the media to shutdown Duchene speculation was amateurish; etc.

But what the organization does have going for it is the most exciting prospect pool any of us can remember, with some major young building blocks already on the big team last year. If Sakic just traded Duchene & Barrie straight up for premium picks, I'd be thrilled since drafting is the one thing we're good at. So I sort of get were Eagles' optimism comes from. He's just a few years too early and doesn't wanna accept that we need one last season of tanking to finish rebuilding our D with that #1 LHD we are missing...or that we need to just move on from Duchene and let both parties get a fresh start.

 

[Sea Eagles]

Being loyal doesn't mean that you need to BS yourself that your team is the best in the league when its clearly not. Pretty much everyone here on this board is extremely loyal. The "less-loyal" fans left a long time ago.



Who said that you need to support the best team? There's a big gap between "I support the AVS" and "they are the best team in the NHL".

Our team is clearly not the best team in the league standings wise (far from it).

But the team also offers me so much more than that, which makes them the best team in the league to "me".

You disagree, fine. We just have a different outlook.

I think this off seasons imorovement roster wise, balance wise, depth wise has outplayed most other teams in the NHL, and yes, we started from a low bas admittedly.

Just because everyone here basically says every thing the club does, or does not do sucks, doesn't mean I personally can't be bloody excited about our future, and I am.

I am honestly chomping at the bit for the season to start, and I don't feel that connection with any other team.

I back these guys. I have faith they'll turn things around super fast. This will be a huge bounce back season. I support every player on this team (including Duchene) from Mackinnon, to Colborne.

I very much care where we finish, and I'm the kind of person that NEVER hopes for a high draft pick regardless of situation.

Best team in the NHL for me. The way they helped me grieve three years ago, I owe them 100% support. If that's blind support, then thanks, I'll wear that as a badge of honour.

Lastly, the way this forum reads, it just appears 80% of the fanbase is just miserable supporting our team. If people are miserable and don't have hope, what is there man?

Thank God for our Avs I reckon. They make me one absolutely happy supporter.