Prospect Info: Wild Prospect Thread 2023-2024

[AKL]

It’s okay. You have some unnecessary reason to defend Firstov and blame Guerin for him not sticking. Reality is the opposite, but you do you.

Right, like I said, it appears like you do not understand.

 

[thestonedkoala]

The Wild wanted him HERE last year. This is nobody’s fault but Firstov’s.

Imagine going into a new job and in the second week you give your employer the middle finger to go somewhere across the world to do the same thing (and be mediocre at it). Then coming back a year later, still being mediocre, and expecting a higher level position.

The issue isn’t going to Russia. The issue is giving your employer the middle finger.

Down on the Farm: Firstov Aims for Minnesota | Minnesota Wild

2019 draft pick working towards start in St. Paul

www.nhl.com

Imagine uprooting your entire life to chase a dream, have an opportunity to go home and develop, and be with family and then told your selfish?

Look at the abysmal development rate in Iowa over the years and the abysmal record. People love touting that "YOU CAN'T TANK, IT'S BAD FOR MORAL" and then Iowa has been a terrible team and yet it's a good place to develop players?

Funny thing I remember is Avs fans warning Wild fans about Tim Army and how bad of a coach he was - and yep. He was. Who would you want to develop from Igor Larinov or Tim Army?

The issue is that if playing in the KHL is good enough for Yurov and Khusnutdinov, it should be good enough for Firstov to at least get a look in the NHL.

In the end, it isn't a big deal, because Firstov is another prospect that the Wild mismanaged and is now a bust for them.

 

[DANOZ28]

iowa has been a dumpster fire and guerin has done nothing im aware of to improve that team.

 

[thestonedkoala]

iowa has been a dumpster fire and guerin has done nothing im aware of to improve that team.

He's fired Tim Army and promoted Matt Murray?

 

[P10p]

Guys here basing their whole argument on a stat sheet when I can guarantee they've never seen a khl of firstov.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

The team is not required to lay out the red carpet for Firstov when he comes back, if he left in a way that they did not want.

However, logic dictates that if they thought he was going to be any sort of NHL player, they'd treat him different.

It's simply a referendum on what they think of him. Same as Mennell.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Down on the Farm: Firstov Aims for Minnesota | Minnesota Wild

2019 draft pick working towards start in St. Paul

www.nhl.com

Imagine uprooting your entire life to chase a dream, have an opportunity to go home and develop, and be with family and then told your selfish?

Look at the abysmal development rate in Iowa over the years and the abysmal record. People love touting that "YOU CAN'T TANK, IT'S BAD FOR MORAL" and then Iowa has been a terrible team and yet it's a good place to develop players?

Funny thing I remember is Avs fans warning Wild fans about Tim Army and how bad of a coach he was - and yep. He was. Who would you want to develop from Igor Larinov or Tim Army?

The issue is that if playing in the KHL is good enough for Yurov and Khusnutdinov, it should be good enough for Firstov to at least get a look in the NHL.

In the end, it isn't a big deal, because Firstov is another prospect that the Wild mismanaged and is now a bust for them.

Imagine wanting a player to develop in the minors, and then "flee" home at the first sign of adversity. Then be told that player should be gifted time in the big show.

Two can play the spin game.

Yeah, Iowa was bad last year. The year before the lost the qualifying round for the playoffs. That really doesn't qualify as "a terrible team". Have they been great? No. But one bad year doesn't make them terrible either.

 

[thestonedkoala]

However, logic dictates that if they thought he was going to be any sort of NHL player, they'd treat him different.

I mean by that measure, logic dictates that Guerin is a very - let's go with passionate GM - that sometimes lets his emotions get the best of him. See his comment on Fiala, see his comment on Talbot...

Yeah, Iowa was bad last year. The year before the lost the qualifying round for the playoffs. That really doesn't qualify as "a terrible team". Have they been great? No. But one bad year doesn't make them terrible either.

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I don't think that image is the gotcha you think it is. Out of 32 teams, only 9 teams miss the qualifying round (it's not even the playoffs). Iowa was the 5th seed and got swept not even in the first round of playoffs. In the 11 seasons in the AHL, they have qualified for the playoffs once. Even discounting 2 seasons they didn't have the playoffs, they have missed the playoffs 9 times out of 10. That's a 90% success rate of missing the playoffs! More so, they have 5 teams out of 7 make the qualifying round before they have the playoffs They have a 71% chance of making the qualifying round each year.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Imagine wanting a player to develop in the minors, and then "flee" home at the first sign of adversity. Then be told that player should be gifted time in the big show.

Flee? He was given the opportunity to go home and play and stay with his family. Also what adversity? He was home sick. Should Boeser be criticized for commenting he wanted to be traded to Minnesota because he was homesick? Should we criticize Parise or Suter for signing for Minnesota because they got homesick? Also no one said gifted time, but given the opportunity to show what he had in the NHL and if he didn't look good, just send him back. There was no issue with just letting him play a game or two to see if he had ANY skills. BTW, did you even read the article I posted?

Two can play the spin game.

Yeah, Iowa was bad last year. The year before the lost the qualifying round for the playoffs. That really doesn't qualify as "a terrible team". Have they been great? No. But one bad year doesn't make them terrible either.

View attachment 873640

I don't think that's the gotcha you think it is. After getting to the 2nd round, Iowa couldn't even get past the qualifying round of the playoffs and got swept. They've added more talent and still can't get to the playoffs. They also have an abysmal rate of developing any type of scoring forward. Boldy and Rossi and...Duhaime? Dewar? Shaw? And Boldy was there for only 25 games.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Flee? He was given the opportunity to go home and play and stay with his family. Also what adversity? He was home sick. Should Boeser be criticized for commenting he wanted to be traded to Minnesota because he was homesick? Should we criticize Parise or Suter for signing for Minnesota because they got homesick? Also no one said gifted time, but given the opportunity to show what he had in the NHL and if he didn't look good, just send him back. There was no issue with just letting him play a game or two to see if he had ANY skills. BTW, did you even read the article I posted?


I don't think that's the gotcha you think it is. After getting to the 2nd round, Iowa couldn't even get past the qualifying round of the playoffs and got swept. They've added more talent and still can't get to the playoffs. They also have an abysmal rate of developing any type of scoring forward. Boldy and Rossi and...Duhaime? Dewar? Shaw? And Boldy was there for only 25 games.

Tuch.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Tuch.

Forgot about Tuch, because he was literally shipped off to Vegas.

 

[Wabit]

Imagine wanting a player to develop in the minors, and then "flee" home at the first sign of adversity. Then be told that player should be gifted time in the big show.

Two can play the spin game.

Yeah, Iowa was bad last year. The year before the lost the qualifying round for the playoffs. That really doesn't qualify as "a terrible team". Have they been great? No. But one bad year doesn't make them terrible either.

View attachment 873640

It's not just one bad year. The AHL has 23 (of 32) teams make the Playoffs each year. The "did not participate" season they were sitting 4th in the Central and that was with MKE (yearly a strong team) sitting the season out. The one Qualifying Round year they squeaked into the Playoffs by 1p.

The only team worse that Iowa in the Central last season was CHI (2p worse). CHI was a completely independent (no NHL affiliate) team last year.

The only "good" AHL team they had under GMBG was his first year (COVID no Playoffs year), and that was from what Fenton did as GM (he was canned late in that offseason).

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Are we sure we can't take credit for developing Kaprizov? Maybe we slipped him diet plans and stick-handling drills in fake rocks on the sidewalk in Moscow?

 

[AKL]

Are we sure we can't take credit for developing Kaprizov? Maybe we slipped him diet plans and stick-handling drills in fake rocks on the sidewalk in Moscow?

I think if you bring Kaprizov into the conversation, we have to acknowledge that it's okay for players to develop in the KHL, and then we kinda have to absolve Firstov of his sins (aka leaving Des Moines to go play in Russia for a couple years). Are we ready to do that?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I think if you bring Kaprizov into the conversation, we have to acknowledge that it's okay for players to develop in the KHL, and then we kinda have to absolve Firstov of his sins (aka leaving Des Moines to go play in Russia for a couple years). Are we ready to do that?

If you'd like. I don't particularly care about Firstov's situation.

Interesting to see the 2 sides though.

 

[AKL]

If you'd like. I don't particularly care about Firstov's situation.

Interesting to see the 2 sides though.

I'm just trying to pave the way to an understanding for people who think he's a selfish prick for choosing to go back to the KHL. Won't lose sleep over his contract being terminated though.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I'm just trying to pave the way to an understanding for people who think he's a selfish prick for choosing to go back to the KHL. Won't lose sleep over his contract being terminated though.

Personally, I wouldn't categorize it as "selfish prick", but I do see a bit of a difference between somebody drafted out of the KHL that stays there for a bit, and somebody drafted out of the NCAA, that goes back just because he didn't like the AHL (saying this as what I believe, not knowing 100% of the facts). Especially if he was being counted on to make that AHL less of the dumpster fire that people are describing.

 

[AKL]

Personally, I wouldn't categorize it as "selfish prick", but I do see a bit of a difference between somebody drafted out of the KHL that stays there for a bit, and somebody drafted out of the NCAA, that goes back just because he didn't like the AHL (saying this as what I believe, not knowing 100% of the facts). Especially if he was being counted on to make that AHL less of the dumpster fire that people are describing.

I'm not sure you can count on him to make the AHL less of a dumpster fire at the same time that you're writing him off as a nothing player. In my opinion, if you think he's a nothing player, you probably shouldn't get mad and hold a grudge if he decides to try his hand in Russia, and if you think he's got a potential future here, why isn't he getting an opportunity in the NHL like Khusnutdinov and Ohgren did?

My guess is Guerin wanted him to take the Beckman route, and I don't blame Firstov for wanting to try a different way at all, and it's Guerin's right as GM to cut that cord if he wants.

I just don't think you can call Firstov a selfish prick (understand that you did not do this, speaking in general terms) for doing what's best for him and his career, as these guys only have a finite number of years to make enough money to live comfortably for the rest of their lives, and not call Guerin a selfish prick for trying to strong arm him into making less money with a higher cost of living on the other side of the world away from his family.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I'm not sure you can count on him to make the AHL less of a dumpster fire at the same time that you're writing him off as a nothing player. In my opinion, if you think he's a nothing player, you probably shouldn't get mad and hold a grudge if he decides to try his hand in Russia, and if you think he's got a potential future here, why isn't he getting an opportunity in the NHL like Khusnutdinov and Ohgren did?

My guess is Guerin wanted him to take the Beckman route, and I don't blame Firstov for wanting to try a different way at all, and it's Guerin's right as GM to cut that cord if he wants.

I just don't think you can call Firstov a selfish prick (understand that you did not do this, speaking in general terms) for doing what's best for him and his career, as these guys only have a finite number of years to make enough money to live comfortably for the rest of their lives, and not call Guerin a selfish prick for trying to strong arm him into making less money with a higher cost of living on the other side of the world away from his family.

A nothing NHL player.

Funny thing is, with all of the injuries we saw this year, if Firstov stayed and had a good Iowa year, he very well could've found himself in the NHL.

 

[AKL]

A nothing NHL player.

That's not really fair to Firstov, which, fine, you can say they don't have to be fair to Firstov. But Firstov also doesn't need to do right by them if they're not going to do right by him.

I think Firstov has bigger ambitions for his career than Guerin did, and I don't blame him at all for trying to realize those.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

That's not really fair to Firstov, which, fine, you can say they don't have to be fair to Firstov. But Firstov also doesn't need to do right by them if they're not going to do right by him.

I think Firstov has bigger ambitions for his career than Guerin did, and I don't blame him at all for trying to realize those.

It's a partnership, but it's also and employer/employee relationship. The team does have a say.

 

[AKL]

It's a partnership, but it's also and employer/employee relationship. The team does have a say.

Both the team and Firstov have a say. Sounds like they were saying different things. Now Firstov is free to go wherever he can get something he wants. Neither side is a selfish prick. Can we agree on that and call it a day?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Both the team and Firstov have a say. Sounds like they were saying different things. Now Firstov is free to go wherever he can get something he wants. Neither side is a selfish prick. Can we agree on that and call it a day?

Sure.

 

[Wabit]

Firstov's real mistake was signing with MN and not the KHL right out of college.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Right, like I said, it appears like you do not understand.

No, I totally agree that it’s Guerin’s fault. It’s his fault for not identifying that Firstov is a loser and a quitter faster