Post-Game Talk: Wild @ Caps 7PM EST | Caps Lose 2-1

[FloridaCap]

Tough loss. Minny plays a mind numbing, boring defensive style that sadly is quite effective for them. I'm glad the Caps don't have to play them more than twice a year.

The Wild have to have the most boring team in the history of the NHL. They have always been dull to watch.

I'll be so excited when Yeo is fired. That team has the potential to be a really exciting team, and instead they're more boring than some bottom feeders.

DeBoer, Yeo.... they can all go find a job somewhere else.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

PBP guy is Joe Beninati. He's really good.

Color guy is Craig Laughlin. He's fun for Caps fans, but he's a homer and can get annoying sometimes.

The play-by-play guy is Joe Beninati and he's one of the best in the business. Craig Laughlin is the color commentator who is okay once you get accustomed to his weird voice but he does occasionally say some stupid and biased things.

Pretty spot on. The main guy is a pro and a non-homer, like those good Canadian commentators. The color guy is mostly annoying and supplies -20 to listeners' IQ, but more in a harmless clown sort of way.

Thanks for the responses. I've heard the name Joe Beninati... I think he has some sort of affiliation with lacrosse as I coach that and watch a lot.

Sadly, for the amount of hockey love MN gets, our team is very poor. Our color commentator is downright horrendous. Craig Laughlin didnt seem great. At one point I think I heard him say, "this is the play that stops the play where the play was made"

Thanks again guys.

 

[FloridaCap]

Thanks for the responses. I've heard the name Joe Beninati... I think he has some sort of affiliation with lacrosse as I coach that and watch a lot.

Sadly, for the amount of hockey love MN gets, our team is very poor. Our color commentator is downright horrendous. Craig Laughlin didnt seem great. At one point I think I heard him say, "this is the play that stops the play where the play was made"

Thanks again guys.

I believe he does, in fact, announce some lacrosse.

 

[RaindanceMaggie]

Beninati does commentate lacrosse games as well.

 

[tycoonheart]

Think JoeB also does D2 football at times right?

 

[artilector]

Highly disagree that a Green replacement would mean less goals against. Green has the puck on his stick more than any other defenseman on our team, and in turn, looks like he gives up more goals than anyone else... but that's far from the truth. Replace Green with a real 3rd-pairing dman, and our defense is significantly worse.

Also, even if you ignore the PP altogether, Green is still among the best point-producers in the business at 5v5, as seen on his HERO chart (notice the P/60):

There's also not really any solid top-6 forwards available this summer to solidify our 2nd line with. It's pretty much trade or bust.

Bottom line is the only way Green is coming back is if we bait some team into taking Laich off our hands. Laich likely spells the end of Green, and we'll feel it when we have to replace him with a cheap defender.

OK, it's difficult to make a convincing statistical argument about goals-against one way or the other. But I find it really hard to believe that our 3rd pair would get much worse with a conservative ~3M vet replacing Green there, (plus a bunch of young guys knocking on the door)

As far as real vs. hypothetical availability of top-6 forwards.. what's wrong with a trade? They have until next trade deadline to get it done.

You're probably right that it would be very hard to keep Laich AND Green, although I wouldn't want to keep either.

What contenders field a guy like that on the 3rd pair, at that price, and with a legit PP replacement? I don't mean it as an assailable argument, but really, if you want to construct a SC team, I imagine you would never come up with a setup like that.

 

[Atlas]

The play-by-play guy is Joe Beninati and he's one of the best in the business. Craig Laughlin is the color commentator who is okay once you get accustomed to his weird voice but he does occasionally say some stupid and biased things.

I like Joe B and Craig Laughlin a lot. They are a part of the Caps for me. They both love the game, love their job, they love the Caps. Joe B and Craig are good as a team, too. They ham it up and it gets goofy sometimes but it's always good-natured.

 

[Mickstix]

Blame Green (I do) Blame Mojo (I do too) but I guess you could say at least they were trying to make something happen?

Im starting to believe Chimera thinks the purpose of a cycle is to keep the puck away from the goal? lol Brouwer doesn't have a lick of hockey offensive IQ.. 3 on 2, he goes for the line change? Laich? Just a ton of passengers and w/o Ovie driving it's hard to watch is all..

W/o Ovie were Florida.. W/o Ovie and Holtby were Buffalo..

 

[SpinningEdge]

Because, IMO:

1. PP with Carlson is just as effective as with Green, so there's 16 (of current 36) Green points you can simply replace.
2. Without PP, Green is what, a 25 pt guy? A 30 pt guy? If you drop off to a 15-20 pt 3rd pair guy, that's only maybe a 10-15 pt difference.
3. With Green gone, you'll likely allow fewer goals, fewer dumb unnecessary goals (unlike goals that opponents would score on anybody, these are Green-special back-breaking goals), fewer goals in tight Trotz-type games, etc. Those could easily account for more than the 10-15 pt negative difference.
4. With Green gone, you'll have one less fragile player that is highly questionable to survive a full SC run.
5. Getting a solid top-6 forward would not just mean individual improvement -- it could completely change the effectiveness of the 2nd line and improve the stats of at least 2 other linemates. If you find a forward that clicks with Kuz, you can get two great players.
6. Getting a solid 2nd line would improve the whole team by tilting the ice more, putting more pressure on opponents.

Honestly, I find it incredible that you don't seem to even understand these arguments. I mean, you acknowledge them, but then the next day you come back with same stats-in-a-vacuum, as if Green's positive and negative contributions can even remotely be summarized by reading off regular season point totals.

Look, things change as I see more and more games. It is a what have you done for me lately league so my opinion one month can deff chage from one month to the next.

I think with Mike Green a lot of it is mental and a lack of understanding game situations.

I think Mike Green is one of the best players in the league in terms of natural skill - however, I think he lacks in game awareness too often too. He kinda reminds me of a Jay Cutler of hockey. All the tools in the world to be successful, but just lacks awareness and makes plays that make you go "why? why? why?" too often.

I think another reason he hasn't scored so much is hes trying to pass and get other people involved more. On the PP he's looking to get it to Ovi every time. Do we wish he'd shoot more? Sure... but we still have the #2 PP in the league, so what he's dong is still a good thing. IF Ovi wasn't to his left on the PP every time he's out there I'm sure Green would have 10-15 goals by now and people wouldn't be saying anything about his goal production.

In terms of lack of ES scoring, I think that was just due to having to carry the lines. With rookies and Hillen on his line all year, he was still the best defensive player of his pairings and had to be the defensive anchor. With Gleason here now I think we need to give him a little more time to see how he really does.

In terms of awareness and a lack of understanding in game situations - I think what I mean by that is he doesn't really adjust. If we're up by 1 - down by 1 - tied defensive battle in the 3rd, I think he plays the same way. Tonight was a good example. Trusting his skating/puck control and not just doing the smart thing in a late game like that. That's why Trotz I feel like doesn't play him nearly at all when we are leading.

He's still one of the premiere offensive D guys in the league, but he has been through more systems/people telling him how to play/how not to play than any player possibly in the league. With his skill and good coaching, once someone figures out how to use him best he will absolutely be a threat.

Whether that is here next year or not - what Green needs is a coach who has experience knowing how to get the best out of their players and a consistent system. Once he settles in to one system and isn't having to change everything every other month I think he'll be just fine.

Another issue could be he gets into let Ovi do it all mode. I think sometimes you just need to say you can step up and be a leader and make things happen. Green is one of those players that I think can. With Ovi being out there with him almost half his shifts maybe he's doing what a ton of other players do when they're out with Ovi... just ride his tail.

 

[Atlas]

I dislike #52’s game. Yes, I am aware of his + skating and the amazing puck handling he used to use to get the puck through traffic. Up until 2010 or 2011 we might overlook his shortcomings because he created so much offense. Even then I suspect the best GMs knew that Green did more harm than good.

Now, it has become obvious that Green is a one dimensional, utility player. He can play (not dominate, but play) the PP, and he can get the puck up the ice at even strength. In every other category he is average or below average. He is fragile. He gets muscled around when he can't avoid contact. His shot is not very accurate. He is weak defensively even against opposing teams' 3rd and 4th lines. He gets sheltered minutes. The worst thing about Green is that he really doesn't have a good sense of the game. He rarely makes the smart play and often makes dumb ones.

The Caps will be a better team when Green is gone. Addition by subtraction. He played hard here and thanks to him for the excitement but it is time to move on.

 

[Teppo]

I'll be so excited when Yeo is fired. That team has the potential to be a really exciting team, and instead they're more boring than some bottom feeders.

DeBoer, Yeo.... they can all go find a job somewhere else.

Trotz? He is different?

These "boring" comments are so comical. When your team normally gets a lot of scoring chances, but are shutdown pretty well (and you were without your best player), of course the game will be boring. Its not because the Wild are boring, it is because they played better than your team.

I wish the "boring" posters would follow up with actual hockey talk. What is boring about how they play? Neutral zone play is the same as every other team in the league. They forecheck very aggressively. In the Dzone they collapse around the net and keep the opposing team to the outside - same as what every other team tries to do. They have mobile dmen with great first passes so they transition very well.

Nothing about the Wild's statistics this year gives any indication that they are anything but a well balanced aggressive team. Goals for, goal differential, shots for, shot differential, possession stats etc. There is nothing quantitative that you can offer to support the "boring" claim. Its simply based on the perception that they were given when they entered the league as an expansion franchise, with no talent at all, and were forced to play very passively at all times and simply try and capitalize on the other team's mistake. Added to that their relative lack of playoff success and media coverage. My guess is that you have not seen the Wild play more than twice this whole season.

I am trying to stay within the forum rules. I respectfully disagreed with what you said, but will not pursue it any further if you do not want to respond.

 

[Atlas]

Trotz? He is different?

These "boring" comments are so comical. When your team normally gets a lot of scoring chances, but are shutdown pretty well (and you were without your best player), of course the game will be boring. Its not because the Wild are boring, it is because they played better than your team.

I wish the "boring" posters would follow up with actual hockey talk. What is boring about how they play? Neutral zone play is the same as every other team in the league. They forecheck very aggressively. In the Dzone they collapse around the net and keep the opposing team to the outside - same as what every other team tries to do. They have mobile dmen with great first passes so they transition very well.

Nothing about the Wild's statistics this year gives any indication that they are anything but a well balanced aggressive team. Goals for, goal differential, shots for, shot differential, possession stats etc. There is nothing quantitative that you can offer to support the "boring" claim. Its simply based on the perception that they were given when they entered the league as an expansion franchise, with no talent at all, and were forced to play very passively at all times and simply try and capitalize on the other team's mistake. Added to that their relative lack of playoff success and media coverage. My guess is that you have not seen the Wild play more than twice this whole season.

I am trying to stay within the forum rules. I respectfully disagreed with what you said, but will not pursue it any further if you do not want to respond.

I agree with you. Minny played an excellent road game. Your goalie hung tough and kept it close. Minny forechecked well and clogged up the middle. If Ovie played it might have been a different game. But Ovie didn't play.

 

[Teppo]

I agree with you. Minny played an excellent road game. Your goalie hung tough and kept it close. Minny forechecked well and clogged up the middle. If Ovie played it might have been a different game. But Ovie didn't play.

Probably a different outcome if he played.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

Hey friends,

I come in peace as a Minny fan. Wanted to ask you about your commentator... The play by play guy is IMO very good. I am currently traveling so I watched to the game on NHL Gamecenter and will always choose the non-Minnesota commentators because they're so bad. I don't know your main guys name but I enjoyed listening, the color commentary... not as much.

Just wanted to know what you all thought about the both of them.

Good game, can't wait to watch you in the playoffs!

The Wild needed and wanted the win. I have them as a WC upset team if they make it in. I never was a fan of Dubnyk, but I admire how he is stepping up with a real team. As for the commentators, I like them and a breath of fresh air for me. Most of the time, especially with NBC and CBC, I tend to play the games with mute so it's nice to hear the play-by-play sometimes. Coincidentally, I changed from Joe B and Locker to the Minnesota crew due to the latency with Comcast and your team scored .

 

[Raikkonen]

I've been watching Caps play closely not that long. Since 2007 I think. That is exact the same year Green came, right? So I've been here for the whole time he's a Cap. His time has come. He should not be resigned.

I'll keep it this short

 

[MrGone]

The Caps will be a better team when Green is gone.

I have been saying this for four years.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

Trotz? He is different?

These "boring" comments are so comical. When your team normally gets a lot of scoring chances, but are shutdown pretty well (and you were without your best player), of course the game will be boring. Its not because the Wild are boring, it is because they played better than your team.

I wish the "boring" posters would follow up with actual hockey talk. What is boring about how they play? Neutral zone play is the same as every other team in the league. They forecheck very aggressively. In the Dzone they collapse around the net and keep the opposing team to the outside - same as what every other team tries to do. They have mobile dmen with great first passes so they transition very well.

Nothing about the Wild's statistics this year gives any indication that they are anything but a well balanced aggressive team. Goals for, goal differential, shots for, shot differential, possession stats etc. There is nothing quantitative that you can offer to support the "boring" claim. Its simply based on the perception that they were given when they entered the league as an expansion franchise, with no talent at all, and were forced to play very passively at all times and simply try and capitalize on the other team's mistake. Added to that their relative lack of playoff success and media coverage. My guess is that you have not seen the Wild play more than twice this whole season.

I am trying to stay within the forum rules. I respectfully disagreed with what you said, but will not pursue it any further if you do not want to respond.

Sorry, Minny is a boring team. I wish they weren't but they are.

They are a very good team, have good structure and are well coached but they are not exciting at all to watch.

They are Dale Hunter level boring to watch.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Meltdown city after a 2-1 loss to a team that's 17-3-2 since January, without our captain. Caps fans special.

We lost this game by a combined 6 inches -- MaJo's two posts and the deflection at the end that hit Dubnyk's skate.

Continue the rabble rabble.

 

[ColincampbellOscopy]

yep need to get rid of that mike green guy, his 1 high leverage turnover every 70 games is really what's holding them back..

guys that handle the puck are going to turn it over every now and then, fyi. his situational awareness was super awful here, not sure why he was forcing the issue, but god forbid somebody tries to make a play to generate offense. If you're only scoring 1 at home, there's a good chance that you have other issues outside of your 3rd pairing defenseman.

The Burakovsky thing is ridiculous, even if you're ignoring the advanced stats sheet, he was optically your best forward. When he was on the ice, they were playing in the offensive zone a lot more than they weren't. The preconceived Trotz notion that the younger guys can't play in crunch time is going to, and has already, cost this team more games than Mike Green ever will.

 

[NoMoreChoking]

I hate Green. I seriously would let GMBM sleep with my girlfriend and hand over my 401k to get him gone

 

[NoLookPass]

Mojo was our best shooter tonight and he's still bashed.

Green deserves the bashing though. Only thing he's done well all season is put the puck in Ovis wheelhouse. But even on the PP he stopped shooting the puck now we have Carlson who's 50/50 on the feeds to Ovi but at least he's not afraid to put one on net.

People complaining about this team without Ovi is comical, there is a reason he's a MVP candidate, there is a reason he gets paid the amount he does, there is a reason he gets the ice time he does. Yet, people are still disappointed in the teams performance when he's gone.

Also, I think Wilson played very well tonight. At first I hated the line of Wilson, Kuz and Laich but they impressed me.

Bura played well but Suter just manhandled him whenever he was close.

 

[Roughing]

Mojo was our best shooter tonight

Um, no. He failed on all 3 or 4 premium chances.

 

[TheNuge]

I hate Green. I seriously would let GMBM sleep with my girlfriend and hand over my 401k to get him gone

Man I wish I was GMBM

 

[NoLookPass]

Um, no. He failed on all 3 or 4 premium chances.

He had 3 or 4 premium chances.... better then the rest of the team.

 

[OVs Gold Chain*]

He's still one of the premiere offensive D guys in the league, but he has been through more systems/people telling him how to play/how not to play than any player possibly in the league. With his skill and good coaching, once someone figures out how to use him best he will absolutely be a threat.

The only reason Green is statistically one of the better offensive d-men in the league is because of primaries to #8 on the powerplay. His shooting % and knack for finding an open lane to shoot have dropped significantly. That has nothing to do with "figuring out how to use him"... he's been given significant PP minutes and put in extremely favorable 5-on-5 minutes and continues to fail. What happened to the Mike Green that would skate around multiple defenders and create space for his shot? His killer instinct in the offensive zone is dead.

Personally, I think the injuries are to blame. Green has had several head/upper body injuries and is a smart enough guy to know what they mean for long-term health. As a result the way he plays the game has gone from a win at all cost mentality to survival mode. Over the last few years he has transitioned from a guy who would be screaming for the puck trying to help tie a close game to a guy that just wants to get rid of the puck as soon as it's on his stick.

With the way he currently plays the game, I wouldn't feel comfortable offering him a dime over 4.5 mil. He's racked up more than enough assists to Ovechkin to get 6-7 mil somewhere else, though. This organization has a couple prospects/younger guys who can manage the workload Green is currently bringing to the table so I hope we let him go and finally start solidifying our top-6.