Wild 4 Oilers 3

[guymez]

No, but teaching players to win is something that should have been occurring well before they got to the nhl. We should be seeing some progression, but were not. Still getting shot differential-ed to hell, still losing games. My critique of your argument was that "culture" has nothing to do with it. We have a pretty good idea about what they need to do to win games, so how are they being taught these things (teaching methodology matters). And if that piece is taken care of, why isnt it showing up in games?

Completely disagree. It is showing up in games...its just not showing up enough to create wins just yet.
Cultures or the 'psychological makeup' of a team varies form team to team. Most of the players on this team came from winning teams in their respective Junior League.
That doesnt at all mean that they just show up and know how to win in the NHL. Thats why most players need time in the AHL so they can adapt to the increased speed and strength of a Pro League.

That aside there is also a specific culture within a team which I believe has to be cultivated by the GM and the Coach...it doesnt just happen on its own. There has to be a direction and a formed identity (through additional player acquisitions as well) otherwise the team is rudderless which is a large part of what we witnessed here the last 6 years.

Instilling that direction and identity means that the existing players have to break their entrenched bad habits and reactions.
They have to rethink the game and train themselves to react differently. There is no short cut to this process no matter how fed up we are as fans.
This process is underway IMO and its evident by watching them play instead of just looking at the boxscores.

You cant honestly tell me that there have been no signs what so ever that the team is playing a more structured/tenacious game.

 

[Mav3rick07]

Nurse scored which is fan-freaking tastic, I loved his reaction.

McDavid is still god.


Lots of positives but the fact of the matter is we're 3-7...

 

[ScrillaVilla]

Completely disagree. It is showing up in games...its just not showing up enough to create wins just yet.
Cultures or the 'psychological makeup' of a team varies form team to team. Most of the players on this team came from winning teams in their respective Junior League.
That doesnt at all mean that they just show up and know how to win in the NHL. Thats why most players need time in the AHL so they can adapt to the increased speed and strength of a Pro League.

That aside there is also a specific culture within a team which I believe has to be cultivated by the GM and the Coach...it doesnt just happen on its own. There has to be a direction and a formed identity (through additional player acquisitions as well) otherwise the team is rudderless which is a large part of what we witnessed here the last 6 years.

Instilling that direction and identity means that the existing players have to break their entrenched bad habits and reactions.
They have to rethink the game and train themselves to react differently. There is no short cut to this process no matter how fed up we are as fans.
This process is underway IMO and its evident by watching them play instead of just looking at the boxscores.

You cant honestly tell me that there have been no signs what so ever that the team is playing a more structured/tenacious game.

Since your making the claim please provide evidence (non-anecdotal) that this team is improved compared to last year. I can show you shot differential data over the last 3 years, and its not good (including this year). Heck any measure you look at, its just bad, very very bad.

 

[oilwave]

Since your making the claim please provide evidence (non-anecdotal) that this team is improved compared to last year. I can show you shot differential data over the last 3 years, and its not good (including this year). Heck any measure you look at, its just bad, very very bad.

People have been saying based on "the look test" the Oilers are vastly improved this year, every single year since we drafted Hall. Truth is it is just wishful thinking.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Since your making the claim please provide evidence (non-anecdotal) that this team is improved compared to last year. I can show you shot differential data over the last 3 years, and its not good (including this year). Heck any measure you look at, its just bad, very very bad.

You do know that shot differential isn't everything? A team can shoot 50 times a game and the other team 20 yet the team with 20 could of had many more scoring chances.

Fancy stats don't tell the whole story and saying that the eye test isn't proof just goes to show how little you actually know about hockey.

Team with the best stats don't always do well. Teams that shoot a bunch don't always win.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

I'll give you the word of many sports media and opposing teams coaches who are straight up saying we are harder to play against and improved.

They know the game much better then some metric.

 

[CornKicker]

I'll give you the word of many sports media and opposing teams coaches who are straight up saying we are harder to play against and improved.

They know the game much better then some metric.

thats just coach speak for a free game vs the oilers like the last 6 years

 

[ScrillaVilla]

You do know that shot differential isn't everything? A team can shoot 50 times a game and the other team 20 yet the team with 20 could of had many more scoring chances.

Fancy stats don't tell the whole story and saying that the eye test isn't proof just goes to show how little you actually know about hockey.

Team with the best stats don't always do well. Teams that shoot a bunch don't always win.

No, they don't always win, they just win more often then teams that perform poorly in these metrics. You know, the difference between the playoffs and the draft lottery.

By the way, I love your reference to the eye test. I see a team that spends prolonged periods of time getting blasted in their own zone game in game out. We even got schooled in the Vancouver game, just imagine a 2-8 record right now.

 

[LaGu]

I shudder right now to think what the offensive contribution of Nuge/Lander combined would be. Right now Lander looks completely incapable of even making a pass. I would say Lander has been a disappointment had I thought he was an NHL player in the first place. Ironically to your point the only time Lander has ever resembled being an NHL player was playing with guys like Hall.

Nuges problem right now is he initiates next to nothing. All of McDavid, Hall, Yak are taking the biscuit more and moving it up ice and creating chances. Nuge is doing little of that.

I don't recall spending a 3rd round pick on a checking center. Nuge was a first pick who at this point is looking very ordinary.

.... and there you go again.

It still amazes me how you from time to time just take it over the top like this. I don't know what you're looking for and I normally ignore it, but this is just so upside down that I don't know what to say. I don't even believe that you actually are of that opinion.

Lander played like a good 3C last season before Hall was put on his line and after he was removed. Of course he looked even better with Hall, who would not? If you consider his production he was actually edging close to a 2C pace in the end.

On many occasions he carried an efficient 3rd line playing with players like Hamilton, Miller, Fraser and Purcell.

Anyway, that's the only comment I'll make on his play last season.


On RNH I must unfortunately admit that you are right. He is a disappointing 1st overall for Now. Not only because of expectatitions due to draft position, but also the tools he came with. Yes, he has developed into a good defensive center that can support the offense with skilled players like Eberle and Hall, but he is no where near being the cerebral player he was before "grew up". The intelligence he has is used for defense, not offense.

 

[ScrillaVilla]

I'll give you the word of many sports media and opposing teams coaches who are straight up saying we are harder to play against and improved.

They know the game much better then some metric.

So you've got nothing to contribute here then, your just the parrot repeating random sportsnet highlights.

 

[Frank the Tank]

Since your making the claim please provide evidence (non-anecdotal) that this team is improved compared to last year. I can show you shot differential data over the last 3 years, and its not good (including this year). Heck any measure you look at, its just bad, very very bad.

Would be great to see that. It would be great to see how these number compare against those achieved under Eakins, a former coach that preached taking shots from anywhere to improve such metrics (i.e., "studying for the questions on the exam" effect). For an apples to apples comparison, please filter the shot differentials of previous seasons for games against the specific opponents the Oilers have played so far.

I imagine that outside of the Dallas game, which was a horrendous team performance (as admitted by all involved), there is an improvement in the shot differentials.

 

[ScrillaVilla]

Would be great to see that. It would be great to see how these number compare against those achieved under Eakins, a former coach that preached taking shots from anywhere to improve such metrics (i.e., "studying for the questions on the exam" effect). For an apples to apples comparison, please filter the shot differentials of previous seasons for games against the specific opponents the Oilers have played so far.

I imagine that outside of the Dallas game, which was a horrendous team performance (as admitted by all involved), there is an improvement in the shot differentials.

Here you go, if you want to torture the data to do your "apples to apples" assumption be my guest. Site is war-on-ice.com.

View attachment 85707

 

[SaskOilers]

No, they don't always win, they just win more often then teams that perform poorly in these metrics. You know, the difference between the playoffs and the draft lottery.

By the way, I love your reference to the eye test. I see a team that spends prolonged periods of time getting blasted in their own zone game in game out. We even got schooled in the Vancouver game, just imagine a 2-8 record right now.

Yep, and this has been the case through most of our suckage years. We're still a LONG ways away, unfortunately. We get out possessed EVERY game.

 

[Replacement*]

.... and there you go again.

It still amazes me how you from time to time just take it over the top like this. I don't know what you're looking for and I normally ignore it, but this is just so upside down that I don't know what to say. I don't even believe that you actually are of that opinion.

Lander played like a good 3C last season before Hall was put on his line and after he was removed. Of course he looked even better with Hall, who would not? If you consider his production he was actually edging close to a 2C pace in the end.

On many occasions he carried an efficient 3rd line playing with players like Hamilton, Miller, Fraser and Purcell.

Anyway, that's the only comment I'll make on his play last season.


On RNH I must unfortunately admit that you are right. He is a disappointing 1st overall for Now. Not only because of expectatitions due to draft position, but also the tools he came with. Yes, he has developed into a good defensive center that can support the offense with skilled players like Eberle and Hall, but he is no where near being the cerebral player he was before "grew up". The intelligence he has is used for defense, not offense.

Whatever happened to that Lander? Because he sure hasn't shown up this season and hasn't produced with anyone. He even had Yak for a few games which was a bust. Lander has only had one very isolated segment last year where he has looked like an NHL player. He looks completely incapable in offensive zone this year. Just horrendous. He basically struggles to complete one decent pass in a game. He's getting next to no chances, production, and hasn't been solid in own zone either. Whats left?

 

[Replacement*]

Would be great to see that. It would be great to see how these number compare against those achieved under Eakins, a former coach that preached taking shots from anywhere to improve such metrics (i.e., "studying for the questions on the exam" effect). For an apples to apples comparison, please filter the shot differentials of previous seasons for games against the specific opponents the Oilers have played so far.

I imagine that outside of the Dallas game, which was a horrendous team performance (as admitted by all involved), there is an improvement in the shot differentials.

I think what gets forgotten in looks at bare stats and comparisons is that opponent clubs in the McDavid era are actually playing us harder. Teams are taking us more seriously and having to extend more effort to beat us. A few clubs have commented on that as well. They can't take the Oilers for granted anymore. Minny played a very solid game and didn't take anything for granted. Caps played probably the best game they have ever played against us.

We're not catching anybody by surprise this year. Opponents know if they don't shut us down we can make them look bad.

 

[ScrillaVilla]

I think what gets forgotten in looks at bare stats and comparisons is that opponent clubs in the McDavid era are actually playing us harder. Teams are taking us more seriously and having to extend more effort to beat us. A few clubs have commented on that as well. They can't take the Oilers for granted anymore. Minny played a very solid game and didn't take anything for granted. Caps played probably the best game they have ever played against us.

We're not catching anybody by surprise this year. Opponents know if they don't shut us down we can make them look bad.

That's a massive assumption and excuse for our suckage. Even if that were true, and lets say this team is just slightly better, its not even close to good enough and inconsequential at the end of the day. At this rate, it'll take ten years before we're good enough for the playoffs, thats assuming that we are just slightly better and teams arent taking us for granted. Which is again, is a massive assumption.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

So I just watched the replay of this game. I'm making the effort of watching the games this year, so these comments aren't necessarily game-specific
1. We still don't have any secondary scoring. For years we had one line that can score. Now we have 2. In this league, you need 3. Every time the 3rd and 4th line are on the ice, it's a guarantee we don't score. We're not going to win enough games to be competitive with 50% of our forwards as offensive black-holes.
2. Klinkhammer isn't a top-6 player. Korpikoski isn't a top-6 player. Slepyshev isn't a top-6 player yet. I appreciate their effort levels, but every time Hall or Nuge pass them the puck they may aswell be passing to the other team
3. Eric Gryba is getting waayyy too much ice time. He's a 3rd pairing defender, at best, and he's played over 40 minutes over the past 2 games.
4. When I was a teenager I worked at Safeway, stocking the shelves. I actually only had to Re-stock the pop and chips shelf. All day. When I didn't have anything to do, I'd walk around the store and a fast pace to make it seem like I was doing something. People thought I was a good worker but in reality there was little substance. This is Teddy Purcell. I was watching him all game. He didn't do a single thing of substance. He'd go through the motions, go to open areas, half-ass pressure the d-men on the forecheck. But everytome there was a loose puck, he would lose the battle. Every pass he received, he fumbled it. Every pass he tried to make got intercepted. He is a waste of space.
5. I really hope Yak starts scoring a bit more. He's clearly just shooting it from anywhere every single time McDavid passes to him. I'm not sure if it's a good thing because everytome he shoots could be a chance to
score, or if it's a bad thing because he's not picking his spots or creating a better chance by an extra deke or pass.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

That's a massive assumption and excuse for our suckage. Even if that were true, and lets say this team is just slightly better, its not even close to good enough and inconsequential at the end of the day. At this rate, it'll take ten years before we're good enough for the playoffs, thats assuming that we are just slightly better and teams arent taking us for granted. Which is again, is a massive assumption.

Hockey isnt math and it isn't science. Improvement often happens in jumps, teams can under perform and over perform. If it was all just numbers then it would be very easy to have the best team in the league all the time. It however is not

Look at teams like Calgary last year and so on. They technically shouldn't of won so many games, however they did.

This isn't baseball where advanced stats rule. This is a much more complicated game where you can't just number crunch.

 

[Wretched Oil]

I shut off at least 20% of games before they were finished last year, this year I've only shut off one.

They are better to watch so far this year.

 

[Spawn]

Since your making the claim please provide evidence (non-anecdotal) that this team is improved compared to last year. I can show you shot differential data over the last 3 years, and its not good (including this year). Heck any measure you look at, its just bad, very very bad.

First 10 games last year the team had a goal differential of -15. This year through 10, it's -7. They're averaging a goal less per game against.

Edit: at least according to this
http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm?season=20152016&type=DIV&date=10/30/2014

But if you add up the actual totals they had only given up 36 goals in the first 10. Not sure why NHL.com has it listed as 42.

So I donno. Ignore my post.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

First 10 games last year the team had a goal differential of -15. This year through 10, it's -7. They're averaging a goal less per game against.

That's not shot differential or advanced stats, doesn't count.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

First 10 games last year the team had a goal differential of -15. This year through 10, it's -7. They're averaging a goal less per game against.

Games were against...

Flames, Canucks, Kings, Coyotes, Canucks, Lightning, Capitals, Carolina, Montreal, Nashville.

Much much harder start this year too

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

36 GA last year compared to 31 GA this year.

 

[Chet Manley]

.... and there you go again.

It still amazes me how you from time to time just take it over the top like this. I don't know what you're looking for and I normally ignore it, but this is just so upside down that I don't know what to say. I don't even believe that you actually are of that opinion.

Lander played like a good 3C last season before Hall was put on his line and after he was removed. Of course he looked even better with Hall, who would not? If you consider his production he was actually edging close to a 2C pace in the end.

On many occasions he carried an efficient 3rd line playing with players like Hamilton, Miller, Fraser and Purcell.

Anyway, that's the only comment I'll make on his play last season.


On RNH I must unfortunately admit that you are right. He is a disappointing 1st overall for Now. Not only because of expectatitions due to draft position, but also the tools he came with. Yes, he has developed into a good defensive center that can support the offense with skilled players like Eberle and Hall, but he is no where near being the cerebral player he was before "grew up". The intelligence he has is used for defense, not offense.

RNH and McDavid Just put Hall and Lander together when Eberle gets back... at least give Lander one winger that can help tilt the ice the other way.

 

[McDrai]

RNH and McDavid Just put Hall and Lander together when Eberle gets back... at least give Lander one winger that can help tilt the ice the other way.

Hendricks/RNH/Eberle
Pouliot/McDavid/Yakupov
Hall/Lander/Draisaitl