Why Vegas won

[Huffer]

Fleury clearly outplayed Helle, but their team played a high pressure style that forced turnovers and mistakes, and when they got those turnover and mistakes they capitalized on them.

The Jets had more shots and high danger shots, but also passed on a tonne of shots IMO. There are many things I wasn't happy with in the Jets play in this series (and many I was), but the lack of urgency to get pucks to the net (before the last 10 minutes of the 3rd periods it seemed) was especially frustrating. The PP was especially poor, just watching the Jets pass it around without shooting for a minute until they turn it over. It was especially painful (ironic?), that the series winner was on a relatively harmless shot from the point that was deflected along the way. Something the Jets didn't seem interested in IMO.

 

[Just Forfun]

Was it rigged? I'm unsure... but red flags were definitely going up. Not once in the previous 94 games(yes I watched every one) did I have suspicions about the integrity of what I'm watching but yet in games 2-5 it seemed painfully clear something seemed to be going on.

Vegas won quite simply because of the complete liberty they had to hold, hook and interfere at will. It allowed a badly inferior team to keep virtually all scoring opportunities to low risk areas(which is why fleurys save percentage is so high) and it allowed for their "quick strike" due to creating unusual turnovers and unnaturally gaining position and space in the offensive zone.

If you noticed, referring made sure to penalize the jets early in every game with quick holding or interference call to establish what will be "normal" for the game. As we saw In some cases like the one on wheeler it was a complete phantom call. As for vegas, basically every penalty call on them was tripping essentially letting all their holding and interference go completely unchecked as we saw with mcnab right in front of the ref. This led to a completely stacked deck giving the jets very little chance to win puck battles, make crisp passes or even gain good position away from the play.

This is why vegas won the series, this is why vegas beat the sharks and kings and this is why vegas even made the playoffs. Vegas isn't good, they are a team of bottom 6 forwards and 3rd pair Dmen. Lucas sbisa didn't all of a sudden become awesome at hockey, he became a lot more effective when he can grab his way back into position once he loses a step.

Based on pure odds a Canadian team should win the cup every 4th year and a Canadian team should be in the finals every second year. It's more than just a coincidence it's been 25+ years a Canadian team has won and only 4 Canadian teams have even made the final over that span. People need to stop putting up with this crap.

Utter garbage.

 

[Just Forfun]

I would say the biggest advantage Vegas had over us Was the amount of 18-23 year olds.They had I think 1 and we had 4 or 5 these are just kids

Our young guns definitely have some maturing to do. Filling out their game so to speak.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

The answer to this question is so simple I don't know why we are still posting in this thread. It is goaltending. Helle was below average and Fleury was elite. Switch them around we win in 4, make them even we likely win in 5-6.

Goaltending lost us this series/won the series for the Knights.

 

[jorbjorb]

Probably said already but allowing Vegas to score immediately after we score to tie the game up kills every bit of momentum we had. It was always about a minute apart.

 

[pucka lucka]

Lol. I think you don't get the point. We still wouldn't win regardless of how many series we played against them. They have the better coach and play a better team game/system than we do. We don' make adjustments. They do. They win. Not the popular opinion I realize. but just because you don't agree doesn't mean it's wrong.

It's wrong because it obviously completely wrong.

We lost 1 goal games with their goalie playing way over his head, and their shooters shooting at a historically unsustainable rate. They lost the possession battle & xGF by a significant margin. Your fantasy isn't reality.

 

[ecolad]

I have a slightly different outlook on things - yes, all of the things mentioned in this thread contributed to us losing this series but if we are objective, many long unaddressed problem areas simply compounded and caught up with us as we advanced deeper into the playoffs. And Vegas already had a style of game that was sure to be difficult for us, and then made additional small adjustments themselves (PK) to effectively counter our game.

-We really struggled to exit our defensive zone with any efficiency and created far too many puck turnovers. Poor passing and general misplays resulted in us seldom progressing through the neutral zone as a unit and with speed.
-We also noticeably struggled with our checking assignments when Vegas counter-attacked off created turnovers and generally poor or lazy line changes from our guys. We have always had assignment problems in our zone in picking up the late trailer , giving up an open lane to the net.

As a direct consequence of both the above, we gave up more HD chances than we would have liked - with Helles save % falling proportionately. Helle has performed exremely well for us all season but we have to recognize that his main strengths arise from reading the play and being positionally superior. As noted in this thread, HD sv% is not his strong suit and our guys will have to adjust the way they play in front of him if we are to advance to the finals in future.

-We noticeably struggled to both set up and then create scoring chances on our PP. This is an area where Vegas adjusted so as to aggressively put pressure on Wheeler, exposing his weaknesses as the half wall QB. The inability of Wheeler Scheifele Stastny to themselves generate pressure directly on net and to draw the defenders out of position makes the entire attack ineffective.

 

[folix]

I have a slightly different outlook on things - yes, all of the things mentioned in this thread contributed to us losing this series but if we are objective, many long unaddressed problem areas simply compounded and caught up with us as we advanced deeper into the playoffs. And Vegas already had a style of game that was sure to be difficult for us, and then made additional small adjustments themselves (PK) to effectively counter our game.

-We really struggled to exit our defensive zone with any efficiency and created far too many puck turnovers. Poor passing and general misplays resulted in us seldom progressing through the neutral zone as a unit and with speed.
-We also noticeably struggled with our checking assignments when Vegas counter-attacked off created turnovers and generally poor or lazy line changes from our guys. We have always had assignment problems in our zone in picking up the late trailer , giving up an open lane to the net.

As a direct consequence of both the above, we gave up more HD chances than we would have liked - with Helles save % falling proportionately. Helle has performed exremely well for us all season but we have to recognize that his main strengths arise from reading the play and being positionally superior. As noted in this thread, HD sv% is not his strong suit and our guys will have to adjust the way they play in front of him if we are to advance to the finals in future.

-We noticeably struggled to both set up and then create scoring chances on our PP. This is an area where Vegas adjusted so as to aggressively put pressure on Wheeler, exposing his weaknesses as the half wall QB. The inability of Wheeler Scheifele Stastny to themselves generate pressure directly on net and to draw the defenders out of position makes the entire attack ineffective.

What boggles my mind is the SPEED at which POMO is able to adjust, its awful awful slow. Painfully.

If something doesnt work we are basically screwed till next year.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

The answer to this question is so simple I don't know why we are still posting in this thread. It is goaltending. Helle was below average and Fleury was elite. Switch them around we win in 4, make them even we likely win in 5-6.

Goaltending lost us this series/won the series for the Knights.

9 goals in 5 games suggests it was more than just our goalie. Its so ridiculous reading posts that say we lost cuz of our goalie when we scored 9 goals in 5 games .

 

[Avocado Coolranch]

9 goals in 5 games suggests it was more than just our goalie. Its so ridiculous reading posts that say we lost cuz of our goalie when we scored 9 goals in 5 games .

It wasn’t like the Jets weren’t getting any shots on net or high quality chances. The difference maker was Fleury stopping enough for Vegas to win. Are you trying to say the Jets should’ve done 60+ shots a game to compensate for Fleury’s Vezina performance? Like a poster before said, Fleury made it almost impossible for Vegas to lose.

 

[Inflict]

The answer to this question is so simple I don't know why we are still posting in this thread. It is goaltending. Helle was below average and Fleury was elite. Switch them around we win in 4, make them even we likely win in 5-6.

Goaltending lost us this series/won the series for the Knights.

No, that's just completely wrong IMO. If that is your reasoning, every win and loss in the NHL is due to goaltending. While Fleury was indeed the better goaltender, Helle never gave up more than 3 goals a game and had maybe two bad goals the entire series.

One of the biggest reasons I thought the Jets lost was due to speed. A great example of this is in game 5 where Joe Morrow, who was well rested, looked like one of the fastest skaters on the Jets that night. Compared to the Nashville series, the Jets gave up far too many odd man rushes and left their goaltender out to dry. The Jets were just too tired and couldn't make the adjustments defensively to contain the VGK's speed. Had the Jets won game 6 against Nashville, I think this series would have been much closer.

Another factor was just plain old puck luck. We didn't get the bounces we needed, had no deflections go into the net (from what I can remember) and the puck just always seemed to find a Vegas stick on a rebound. A lucky goal or two would have certainly got the offense going, especially in the third periods where the Jets controlled most of the play.

As for the refs, they were a non factor in this series. I am always one to complain about the refs and they were terribly inconsistent throughout the series, but I didn't think they favoured one team over the other. They were shit for both teams.

At the end of the day, you have the credit the VGK. They were ready to play from game 2 and onwards. They were a well coached team with a hot goaltender and four lines of depth. While the long layoff between games hurt them in game one, it payed off eventually as they consistently wore down the Jets with speed and stifling defensive play.

 

[White Out 902]

No, that's just completely wrong IMO.

You're entitled to your opinion but MA Fleury is right now on pace to have the best NHL playoff in the history of our league for a goaltender. If you can't get past that fact then that's on you. Seriously. Best ever.

 

[Eyeseeing]

You missed the point big time.

If you repeated the series enough times, the Jets would win more often than the Knights. We just got to see the unlikelier outcome take place in real life, as we don't have the option of playing enough games to get justice. That's hardly a reason for overreaction.

I can’t agree with this mercifully it was a 7 game series.
I doubt we would have won again even if there were another dozen games....we looked done.
Having said that it was a fantastic season can we all agree to that?

 

[Turin]

It’s not about the number of goals Hellebuyck gave up. The Knights generated precious little outside of their top line, it was Helle letting in soft goals/giveaways behind the net at terrible times.

 

[KingBogo]

You're entitled to your opinion but MA Fleury is right now on pace to have the best NHL playoff in the history of our league for a goaltender. If you can't get past that fact then that's on you. Seriously. Best ever.

Agreed. MAF was the biggest reason IMO, not that there weren't others. The difference between Helly's .922 SV% and MAF's .947 SV% was 13 goals throughout the playoffs. Based on the amount of shots 5 of those goals can be attributed to the difference in goaltending in the Jets/LV series. We are guaranteed playing tonight if we scored 5 more goals in the series, and very likely up 3-2.

 

[Board Bard]

When Vegas won a puck battle they were immediately turning up ice or spotting a guy further up for a pass. They were headmanning a lot. Too often the Jets got the puck and it was look around for a sec, think for a sec, make a play that has already been closed down; or cycle for the sake of cycling without any apparent thought of getting something to the net. They didn't seem to have the intent and defined purposed that Vegas did, or they didn't understand what they were supposed to be doing.

 

[Flair Hay]

You have to give Vegas full credit for playing well enough defensively to allow their goaltender to sport a save percentage like that. Fleury is in the zone but the team is playing a part in that as well.

 

[ps241]

I am surprised there are 5 pages and counting when there are really only 3 simple reasons:

#1 Fleury

#2 MAF

#3 MA "MF" F

May 14th .968 save %
May 16th .943 save %
May 18th .946 save %
May 20th .969 save %

Pretty much at a .950 save % for the entire playoffs so far which is why they have lost only 3 games in 3 rounds. You can't beat .950 goaltending and the rest is just noise. I bow down to a historical run by da man . Now don't choke in the finals MAF

 

[Saintb]

You're entitled to your opinion but MA Fleury is right now on pace to have the best NHL playoff in the history of our league for a goaltender. If you can't get past that fact then that's on you. Seriously. Best ever.

I think Fleury's play reflects the fact that their D kept the front of the net remarkably clear. Was he ever screened? Other than by Statsny on occasion? On the other hand Helly was screened very effectively. The Knights outplayed us badly imo.

 

[Maukkis]

I can’t agree with this mercifully it was a 7 game series.
I doubt we would have won again even if there were another dozen games....we looked done.
Having said that it was a fantastic season can we all agree to that?

You missed the point too.

We controlled the play at ES and got enough good chances from high danger areas. We should have scored more than nine goals. But we did not.

Give Vegas any other goaltending, and they are nowhere near this dominant. They have overperformed their xG differential by more than a goal per game, whereas the Jets ended up roughly on par with their expected result. If you were to repeat the series a number of times, this would not be the result very often; as soon as Fleury cools down, the team in front of him has to make up for a lot.

 

[Ducky10]

I think Fleury's play reflects the fact that their D kept the front of the net remarkably clear. Was he ever screened? Other than by Statsny on occasion? On the other hand Helly was screened very effectively. The Knights outplayed us badly imo.

Pretty much every loss was a 1 goal game in which the ahot differentials and zone time favoured the Jets, amongst other things. How is that getting badly outplayed? And yes the Jets put up some traffic in front of Fleury, they missed the net alot and hit about a half dozen posts as well.

Vegas was solid defensively at times but not +.950 good, that's on MAF, he was easily the difference.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

9 goals in 5 games suggests it was more than just our goalie. Its so ridiculous reading posts that say we lost cuz of our goalie when we scored 9 goals in 5 games .

There's two goalies on the ice, I'm not saying Helle lost it for us, moreso Fleury won it for them and Helle wasn't very good.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

No, that's just completely wrong IMO. If that is your reasoning, every win and loss in the NHL is due to goaltending. While Fleury was indeed the better goaltender, Helle never gave up more than 3 goals a game and had maybe two bad goals the entire series.

One of the biggest reasons I thought the Jets lost was due to speed. A great example of this is in game 5 where Joe Morrow, who was well rested, looked like one of the fastest skaters on the Jets that night. Compared to the Nashville series, the Jets gave up far too many odd man rushes and left their goaltender out to dry. The Jets were just too tired and couldn't make the adjustments defensively to contain the VGK's speed. Had the Jets won game 6 against Nashville, I think this series would have been much closer.

Another factor was just plain old puck luck. We didn't get the bounces we needed, had no deflections go into the net (from what I can remember) and the puck just always seemed to find a Vegas stick on a rebound. A lucky goal or two would have certainly got the offense going, especially in the third periods where the Jets controlled most of the play.

As for the refs, they were a non factor in this series. I am always one to complain about the refs and they were terribly inconsistent throughout the series, but I didn't think they favoured one team over the other. They were **** for both teams.

At the end of the day, you have the credit the VGK. They were ready to play from game 2 and onwards. They were a well coached team with a hot goaltender and four lines of depth. While the long layoff between games hurt them in game one, it payed off eventually as they consistently wore down the Jets with speed and stifling defensive play.

We won every statistical battle and outplayed them, they out goalied us.

I agree that the refs were a non-factor and that maybe Vegas was a bit more lucky (that is very hard to measure though).

 

[Jets 31]

To me Vegas is almost a carbon copy of the New Jersey Devils back when they were winning Cups on the back of Broudure and solid defense . Boring hockey compared to the Nashville series , but obviously very effective . At times during game 5 it almost felt like a pre-season game to me .

 

[Gabe Kupari]

There's two goalies on the ice, I'm not saying Helle lost it for us, moreso Fleury won it for them and Helle wasn't very good.

Helle was very good .Maybe you should watch some of those games again cuz if not for Helle.. The 2 1 or 3 2 losses look a lot worse.