Why the Habs need to make a push now

[Draft Dynasty]

I know most fans would like Bergevin to do a proper rebuild. Stack on prospects and don't trade future for a marginal Cup push.

The way I see things, we have a lot of older players like; Weber, Price, Petry, Tatar. Also, we have a lot of players that are having a career year and for some of them, it's only going to go downward after that.

I don't see Gallagher, Shaw, Petry, Tatar, Benn, Price and Weber having too many better season then this in the future. That is a fairly big chunk of our team. They are currently performing at the top of their expectations. You have to believe they won't be able to sustain this pace for too long.


Other things to consider;

This Draft is fairly weak; With Kotkaniemi, Domi, Danault, Poehling, Evans, Olofsson. I think the Habs are set in stone at Center. We also have Primeau who in my mind is a blue chip prospect keeper and most Habs fan are underrated him. He could very well be Price's backup in 3 years. That leaves us with Defense; with the emergence of Romanov and Brook this year and you could also add Cale Fleury, who is having a pretty decent first pro season. Habs are not looking too bad but we have to keep in mind that we will need to replace Petry and Weber in the near future so this really make the Defense our biggest needs. The 2019 draft, in my opinion, is pretty average especially for defencemen. I'm very high on Byram but he obviously won't be available. Other then that I'm not a big fan of York, Robertson, Seider, Broberg etc. there is not many D that project to be top 2 D.

Lots of good players available; I can't remember the last year that we had so many big names available at the deadline. That means the price for a rental will be lower than usual. We could be getting a player like Zuccarello for a 2nd rounder + mid prospect. This was the price for Plekanec last year. If him bergevin I would be targeting a player that could help our PP.

I would be willing to move a player like Suzuki or our 1 or 2nd rounder pick depending on the offer.

Lots of good players available; I can't remember the last year that we had so many big names available at the deadline. That mean the price for a rental will be lower then usual. We could be getting a player like Zuccarello for a 2nd rounder + mid prospect. This was the price for Plekanec last year. If him bergevin I would be targeting a player that could help our PP.

I would be willing to move a player like Suzuki or our 1 or 2nd rounder pick depending on the offer.

Click to read more...

 

[WeThreeKings]

No, you can't make a push now when the team is missing a variety of key pieces:

A star winger
A star #1C
A top pairing LD
A second pairing LD (Mete's not ideal at this moment in time if you're going for the cup)

Realistically, you look at a top contender like Tampa:
Do we have a match for Kucherov? No.
Do we have a match for Stamkos/Point/Johnson? No.
Do we have a match for McDonagh? No.

Hedman erases Weber.
Vasilevski erases Price.

We do not have one single trump card over the Tampa Bay Lightning, but they have at least three over us.

You can run the same analysis on other contending teams like Toronto, Washington, Pittsburgh, Winnipeg, Nashville.

We simply don't have the horses. This team isn't a contender until we have true, franchise #1C.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Almost feels like Habs PR are trying to gauge de fans.

Im looking for a job, do they pay well? Do I get a premium for using my good name (whatever that means) instead of a burner account?

 

[koyvoo]

Weber is getting there but Price, Petry and Tatar are not old. Tatar just turned 28 a couple of months ago.

Proceed with ease. All can still be impactful for another 3-4 seasons, in which many things could change. We’re not an “all in” team right now. It two years, who knows?

 

[OldCraig71]

Almost feels like Habs PR are trying to gauge de fans.

Im looking for a job, do they pay well? Do I get a premium for using my good name (whatever that means) instead of a burner account?

This has happened here before.

 

[Kriss E]

I know most fans would like Bergevin to do a proper rebuild. Stack on prospects and don't trade future for a marginal Cup push.

The way I see things, we have a lot of older players like; Weber, Price, Petry, Tatar. Also, we have a lot of players that are having a career year and for some of them, it's only going to go downward after that.

I don't see Gallagher, Shaw, Petry, Tatar, Benn, Price and Weber having too many better season then this in the future. That is a fairly big chunk of our team. They are currently performing at the top of their expectations. You have to believe they won't be able to sustain this pace for too long.


Other things to consider;

This Draft is fairly weak; With Kotkaniemi, Domi, Danault, Poehling, Evans, Olofsson. I think the Habs are set in stone at Center. We also have Primeau who in my mind is a blue chip prospect keeper and most Habs fan are underrated him. He could very well be Price's backup in 3 years. That leaves us with Defense; with the emergence of Romanov and Brook this year and you could also add Cale Fleury, who is having a pretty decent first pro season. Habs are not looking too bad but we have to keep in mind that we will need to replace Petry and Weber in the near future so this really make the Defense our biggest needs. The 2019 draft, in my opinion, is pretty average especially for defencemen. I'm very high on Byram but he obviously won't be available. Other then that I'm not a big fan of York, Robertson, Seider, Broberg etc. there is not many D that project to be top 2 D.

Lots of good players available; I can't remember the last year that we had so many big names available at the deadline. That means the price for a rental will be lower than usual. We could be getting a player like Zuccarello for a 2nd rounder + mid prospect. This was the price for Plekanec last year. If him bergevin I would be targeting a player that could help our PP.

I would be willing to move a player like Suzuki or our 1 or 2nd rounder pick depending on the offer.

Lots of good players available; I can't remember the last year that we had so many big names available at the deadline. That mean the price for a rental will be lower then usual. We could be getting a player like Zuccarello for a 2nd rounder + mid prospect. This was the price for Plekanec last year. If him bergevin I would be targeting a player that could help our PP.

I would be willing to move a player like Suzuki or our 1 or 2nd rounder pick depending on the offer.

It really depends.
If all we're doing is getting Zuccarello...Then no thanks. Pass.
If we're getting Panarin with an extension agreement+Zucca....well then okay.
But even at that, if Petry or Weber get injured down the line....we're screwed.

Sure, a lot of our guys might not be able to replicate their good season, that doesn't mean we should just throw assets out for rentals.

At this point, I don't really care, tank or trade/sign so long that we commit to a direction.
So if we skip on rentals, we better go all in on the UFAs this summer.

 

[vokiel]

This Draft is fairly weak; ...

What? I think you're just pulling that out of your behind.

 

[Runner77]

Almost feels like Habs PR are trying to gauge de fans.

Im looking for a job, do they pay well? Do I get a premium for using my good name (whatever that means) instead of a burner account?

Actually, there is a space after “living” and “odd” is misspelled.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Nope. Habs really need to keep building, and probably get lucky in so doing. It's crucial that we stay in the teens on the draft board. I don't really agree that this draft is weak, but it is flat: that is, there are fewer standout player relatively earlier in this draft. That said there are a variety of players who, for one reason or another, could be available in the teens, who could also add to what I hope should be the goal for everyone: a championship roster.

I couldn't possibly be less interested in a player like Zuccarelo. Mats Zuccarelo is not ''making a push'' for anything. Mark Stone would be. Artemi Panarin would be. But Zuccarelo? Do not waste my time.

Ultimately, I think our LD issues are over exaggerated and fairly easily addressed within the time frame of our young core. I don't think it's imperative for us to draft an LD. To those who think it is, I invite you to compare any LD not named Byram in this draft to Romanov, and ask yourself how realistic is it that our first pick would even be the best LD prospect in our organization.

No, we need firepower and I'm not supporting any ''push'' for this team without it. What needs to happen is we need to get lucky with the draft, and grab one of the big name UFAs this year. We need our own Barzal (as in, someone inexplicably falling to us in the teens) and Stone. Then we start pushing. It was never about this year.

About the older assets on our team, they need to be moved as possible and before they lose their value. There are so many variables that go into creating a stanley cup winning team that have become tropes: a 1C, a 1D, and a 1G, etc. etc.. Here's a much more important one, IMO: number of attempts. This idea of making a push one year to get lucky is asinine. If the argument is ''these players don't have too many good years in front of them'' then the answer of what to do with them is clear: trade them in for younger high valued assets. That ship has sailed with Price, we're stuck with him for better or worse, and at least his season isn't a total abomination as it was last year. But Weber? Any season now. Byron? Should've been traded last year. The point is to create an overload of high valued assets that can try to win a stanley cup a lot of times.

 

[Censored Toad]

No no and no.

We had a window a few years ago and marc messed that up by getting a bunch of shitter 4th line scrubs.

We have too many holes. Did we exceed my expectations this year? Hell ya!

Still we are pretenders.... not possible unless Marc makes trades that are generally not going to be realistic to address the issues pointed out by posters above us.

Im not the GM but he isn't going on all here, and that is a good move.

 

[Draft Dynasty]

The thing is we would have been in a prime spot to trade players like Tatar, Petry. But since we are hot this year they obviously won't trade them. If we are not going to trade those kind of players we might as well try and add a bit to the rosters. Tampa was stacked last year too and didn't win. You never know. We've made deep playoffs run in mtl with way worst team.

Habs are never ever going to trade Weber because of the Subban trade, he's best friend with Price and the team captain.

We could also do a hockey trade. A player like Nurse who is still young. I believe we would have the pieces to make them listen at least. Let say we trade Lehkonen, Primeau, 1st vs Nurse.. Im sure they will at least consider this. We have a deep enough prospects pool to make a package deal especially if we get a first pairing D.

I wouldn't go with players like Stone, Duchene, Panarin because I think they will be too expensive. But a player like Hayes or even Simmonds (Right handed shot, would help PP). I could see the habs being interested in Hayes and we have a cap space to offer him something at the end of the season too. That would slide Domi to the wing. We would be very solid down the middle with Hayes, Danault, KK.

 

[jaffy27]

No no and no.

We had a window a few years ago and marc messed that up by getting a bunch of ****ter 4th line scrubs.

We have too many holes. Did we exceed my expectations this year? Hell ya!

Still we are pretenders.... not possible unless Marc makes trades that are generally not going to be realistic to address the issues pointed out by posters above us.

Im not the GM but he isn't going on all here, and that is a good move.

No we didn’t!!!!.....we had no centres back then either, this window has been shut since 93.....having Radulov and Markov would’ve IMO allowed us to enjoy 2 rounds of playoff hockey, that’s it.....we need Kotka and Poehling to develop and on the double.

With Domi and Danault plus them two, that window will open oh so narrow.

This year is for fun, let the players embrace the experience of a run, the next 3-4 will be our prime times.

 

[Lshap]

Mostly agree with the replies above. We need more elite talent if we want to go head to head with other teams' rosters. Drafting it is the logical course because elite talent is the hardest commodity to acquire. But if Bergevin manages a workaround by signing a couple of top UFAs this summer, then sure, go all in for next year.

I don't care which avenue we travel to add more talent, as long as we get it.

 

[L4br3cqu3]

Let's not trade 'futures' for a perceived 'Time is now' driven by impatience and panic.

Let the kids develop (we finally have people to develop them, give em time), have another nice haul next draft, and try to get one or 2 good UFAs next 1st of July.

Weber and Price ain't done, and Tatar, like implied, is only turning 28 soon.

 

[Habs Icing]

No, you can't make a push now when the team is missing a variety of key pieces:

A star winger
A star #1C
A top pairing LD
A second pairing LD (Mete's not ideal at this moment in time if you're going for the cup)

Realistically, you look at a top contender like Tampa:
Do we have a match for Kucherov? No.
Do we have a match for Stamkos/Point/Johnson? No.
Do we have a match for McDonagh? No.

Hedman erases Weber.
Vasilevski erases Price.

We do not have one single trump card over the Tampa Bay Lightning, but they have at least three over us.

You can run the same analysis on other contending teams like Toronto, Washington, Pittsburgh, Winnipeg, Nashville.

We simply don't have the horses. This team isn't a contender until we have true, franchise #1C.

Although I agree with your post for the most part, there are two minor points I want to bring up.

1) Petry erases McDonagh.

2) Did you ever hear of the saying greater than the sum of its parts?

 

[Habs Icing]

What? I think you're just pulling that out of your behind.

I want to ask where were you when he pulled that off but I'm afraid of the answer you'll give.

 

[Draft Dynasty]

It's been proven that NHL players reach their peak at around 24 years old. This is why the league is getting younger and younger.

At 28-29 years olds. Best years are usually behind you. Of course they will always be exceptions.

The best plan would be to sell high on Tatar and Petry, maybe even Shaw. But we all know it wont happen. They don't wan't to break the team chemistry.

We are in a good position to trade multiples asset vs 1 good player. Prospects pool is very deep and we wont have enough space for all of them at the pro level.

 

[Scriptor]

It really depends.
If all we're doing is getting Zuccarello...Then no thanks. Pass.
If we're getting Panarin with an extension agreement+Zucca....well then okay.
But even at that, if Petry or Weber get injured down the line....we're screwed.

Sure, a lot of our guys might not be able to replicate their good season, that doesn't mean we should just throw assets out for rentals.

At this point, I don't really care, tank or trade/sign so long that we commit to a direction.
So if we skip on rentals, we better go all in on the UFAs this summer.

I actually don't buy the premise that the team is over-the-hill and that these are career years that can't be replicated. I see room to grow for most players because most of those having career years are not even in their prime yet or just entering their prime (Drouin, Domi, Danault, Gallagher, Tatar). Petry and Weber are the older cogs, but can still be productive for the medium term at least. I'd trade Petry as a rental in the last year of his contract (he'll be 33) if Brook proves to be an adequate replacement by then. That would leave him most of next year to develop under Bouchard in the AHL (with a call-up at the trade deadline for some NHL exposure) and most of the following season to show his mettle.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Domi and Drouin get better totals in the future. I wouldn't be surprised to see tatar match this year's totals and I expect Gallagher to be just as good in the medium term (next four years) until he is 30, barring injury. Danault could produce the same numbers while playing against opponents' best players unless his ice time is drastically reduced or his wingers are seriously downgraded, as could happen with KK getting a larger role and Domi continuing to excel as a top-6 C.

Must we go All-In now? NO way. I wouldn't go All-In until KK was in his next contract, provided that the players to go All-In with were available then.

After two more years, MON will have to make major decisions as they renew or pass on contracts for Petry, Tatar, Gallagher and Danault, on top of extending KK on his first contract beyond his ELC (will it be long term for big bucks, medium term for medium bucks until a year before UFA status or a bridge contract, which I wouldn't necessarily suggest?).

There will be two more years left on Drouin's contract and it's still unsure how Domi's next contract will have been worked out (term and amount).

After those two years, though, prospects like Romanov, Brook, Juulsen, Mete and Fleury will have already established their mettle or be on the verge of doing so. Weber will be 35 and, in the line of Ds like Chara and others before him, still be productive, barring injury, for the next three years or so, maybe more (his contract takes him to 40). Petry, at 33, may have been traded or could be re-signed. The flexibility of moving him or not at the trade deadline in his last year of his contract will be part of what enables MON to reshape the roster.

Up front, Poehling and Suzuki will, by then, have surely given a clear indication of what type of future lies in waiting form them at the NHL level. Ylonen will have shown his colours and so will Ikonen, no doubt. Plus, some other draft pick could have matured quickly by then, or trading some players at the deadline in two years could well have reshaped the roster.

More information will be available and expiring contracts will enable management to make decisions that can dictate whether we go all-in or not.

Right now, too many question marks.

Price will be 33, so I'm not concerned about him.

 

[Born in 1909]

This team has about a 2% chance of beating Tampa in a 7 game series.

Optimism in a strong, forward-looking prospect pool is what the team/fans need.

 

[pezcore]

Dont think its the year to go all in considering we still have quite a few glaring holes on our roster. For the first time in forever it seems, we have a deep prospect pool so lets keep it intact and continue with the retooling process.

Im all for sacrificing one of our 2nd round pick for some help because I do think getting into the playoffs will be beneficial for our young roster but we certaintly dont have the team to go all in this year. We could maybe suprise a team and make it past the first round but any further than that seems like wishful thinking.

Maybe next year...who knows....but I think it would be a mistake to try to go all in this year.

 

[Scriptor]

Mostly agree with the replies above. We need more elite talent if we want to go head to head with other teams' rosters. Drafting it is the logical course because elite talent is the hardest commodity to acquire. But if Bergevin manages a workaround by signing a couple of top UFAs this summer, then sure, go all in for next year.

I don't care which avenue we travel to add more talent, as long as we get it.

Patience is key and if we can get ONE UFA that solves a long-term need we don't have in the system (Stone at RW, for example, or Gardiner at LD), it's a start. It also, along with a better season the following year, adds arguments for signing another UFA the following season that could put us over the top. Prospects pushing up through the system, along with the rising League Cap, can help us keep a team together for a push that lasts several years.

The idea of building everything in one foul swoop limits the moves to the talents available and to attracting UFAs with a team that isn't developed enough yet.

The key will be KK having become a C with a greater impact than he currently has.

In two years, A D of:

Gardiner (30)/Fowler (29) - Weber (35)
Romanov (21) - Petry (33)
Mete (22) - Juulsen (23)
Brook (21)

Would look pretty impressive if a move for a LHD can happen between now and then, for example. Up front, the options are even greater with so many contracts up for renewal.

 

[Runner77]

This team has about a 2% chance of beating Tampa in a 7 game series.

Optimism in a strong, forward-looking prospect pool is what the team/fans need.

This type of going-all-in thread had to be predictable the minute the Habs moved up for a playoff spot. We came in with a reset and without seeing it through, some are already shifting gears into something else that is not sustainable. To go all in means depleting the prospect pool, trading for rentals and putting the team back in a worse place than it was going into last summer. Stop the madness.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

This has happened here before.

I kno-ooow, right?

Marketing geniuses saving the world, one cornered niche at a time.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Actually, there is a space after “living” and “odd” is misspelled.

Which makes it more odd?

Forcing grammar errors is often a sign.

 

[Tiger Svoboda]

This team is good but not enough to go all in. Just keep going this way and hope for the best. Try to sign big ufa this summer. Keep all the best prospects we have.
Also, i think Weber will be good for a long time even at his age. He is a keeper.