Why retooling is the best option for the Habs

Discussion in 'Montreal Canadiens' started by Phozzwald, Feb 22, 2018.

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  1. Electricity

    Electricity Registered User

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    Most people wouldn't call the Habs defence serviceable either. I'll just agree to disagree I guess.

    But maybe the Isles have a re-tool plan in place to make their D serviceable next year. Tavares is probably drooling at that thought.
     
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  2. Ozmodiar

    Ozmodiar Registered User

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  3. mariolemieux66

    mariolemieux66 Registered User

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    I know it sucks not to be in the playoffs, i know it sucks to think that a rebuild means at least 3 years of missing them. I know its tempting to throw money at Stastny and trading for ROR just to make the playoffs since anything can happen. What this team needs is clear as day when you look at other organizations and its a full rebuild which means 5 years without playoffs.
     
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  4. Johnny31

    Johnny31 Registered User

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    I haven't watched much of the leafs but you didn't watch the habs either this season
     
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  5. habsgirl5000

    habsgirl5000 Registered User

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    your dreaming....that is just wishful thinking

    i dont really care what they have done in the past.....our games are not played in the past, they are played in the future
     
  6. Doc McKenna

    Doc McKenna Registered User

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    Our d is a trainwreck. It is literally weber away from bottom 5 otherwise bottom 10 even with weber. Our offence is one of the worst so I don't know how we can just assume to leap 10-15 teams and be a playoff team.
     
  7. habsfan909

    habsfan909 Registered User

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    I want to win the lottery as much as anyone... but realistically Dahlin will not be our saviour. Bergevin isn't that lucky haha
     
  8. Doc McKenna

    Doc McKenna Registered User

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    If mac cracks the lineup it means we didn't get any help at C and didn't resign pleks(not that I want to) ALONG with some injuries.
     
  9. Miller Time

    Miller Time Registered User

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    Until MB is gone and Molson removes himself from hockey ops, doesn't matter what direction they choose...
     
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  10. Laurentide

    Laurentide Registered User

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    Should the Habs try to re-tool? No, of course not. They're nowhere near good enough to re-tool and accomplish anything more than a playoff spot and a first round exit. What they need is a full-on tear-down and re-build.

    However...

    Will the Habs try to re-tool? Yes, of course they will. Why? Because the mandate isn't to win Cups anymore but merely to make the playoffs and secure some extra revenue for the ownership group. Additionally, they have a lame-duck GM who needs to win now in order to stay employed beyond this Christmas. So re-tool it is!
     
  11. Scriptor

    Scriptor Registered User

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    I don't see where you disagree. BOTH Ds can be short of being serviceable.
     
  12. gillyguzzler

    gillyguzzler Registered User

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    I've said it often that, for the forward group, there aren't many players that I dislike. Too many of them aren't slotted properly and they're too small as a group.

    Gallaguer - love him as the second line RW and on the second PP.
    Byron - love him as the third line LW and on the PK.
    Galchenyuk - love him but not with JDLR and Lekhonen.
    Lekhonen - love him as the third line RW.
    Danault - love him as the third line C and on the PK.
    Drouin - great as the second line LW and on PP.
    Shaw - too much coin but effective on the third line, maybe even fourth.
    JDLR - 4th line center.
    Deslauriers - love him on the 4th.
    Hudon - love him on the 3rd.
    Paccioretty - one bad season. Would love to see him play top LW with a real #1 center.
    Scherbak - sometimes love him right up to second line RW, sometimes think he's better off in the AHL for another year.

    Anyways, all this to say that we have too many small third line players that I actually like and we're missing a 1st line center and a 2nd line center and we're gold, gold I tells ya.
     
  13. SakuKoivu11

    SakuKoivu11 Registered User

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    Had we trade Subban for a number one Center it would have made us better. But we got an older defenseman with less skill is beyond my understanding for who’s running the team.
     
  14. Sorinth

    Sorinth Registered User

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    Having no replacement for Markov was a big reason we struggled. The thing is that hasn't changed, we still have no replacement for Markov so unless we find a way to get an elite puck moving defenceman a retool won't work.

    I think some of the confusion might be in terms used. You can say we only need to retool because we are missing only two players, a #1 C and a #1 D. The problem is adding say Tavares and Dahlin isn't what I would consider a retool. That's a rebuild, as the core of your team and the players you build around have completely changed.
     
  15. beowulf

    beowulf Not a nice guy.

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    This organization has been trying the retooling method for some 25 years now and it has brought nothing to them. No Cups, a terrible prospect pool , nothing...time to try something different.
     
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  16. Scriptor

    Scriptor Registered User

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    I think that some of the confusion right be in the actual meaning VS the perceived meanings of the terms actually used.

    "Completely" might be an overstatement just used to make your point, for example. Unless "Core" to you is strictly two players?

    You know, a retool does imply adding a few pieces to the core and doesn't mean you can't improve your core in the process.

    What you are alluding to (with no impactful changes) is a "Tweak".

    So, there you go, posters are incoherent because nobody attributes the same meanings to "Rebuild", "Retool" and "Tweak". For sure, there can be some overlap between those three examples, though...
     
  17. NotProkofievian

    NotProkofievian Registered User

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  18. Sorinth

    Sorinth Registered User

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    Your right the meaning of the words are subjective and that's why there's some disagreement.

    Adding Tavares isn't just adding a core player, it's adding a guy who will be your best player, similar with Dahlin except he'd be #2 behind Tavares. When adding 2 "core" players involves adding your 2 best or at worst 2 out of 3 best players then it's not really accurate to say we only need to add a couple core players. We need to add two players who are some of the top players in the league. Currently the team is built around Price/Weber/Pacioretty. That would change to be Tavares/Dahlin/Price, that's a huge change.
     
  19. NotProkofievian

    NotProkofievian Registered User

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    Which picks are the most likely to ''connect''?

    6 of those picks will have been in the 2nd round, after we didn't draft in the 2nd round for 4 years. Only 1 of our seconds since Bergevin has been here has amounted to anything that looks like an NHLer: Lehkonen. Fact is we'll have drafted twice in the 1st round in 2 years. NYR could draft 7 times in the first round between last year and next year, by comparison.

    Lol, St Louis. Are modelling ourselves after St Louis now?
     
  20. LaP

    LaP Registered User

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    A rebuild means you throw the complete team in the garbage and start again. Can't rebuild if you don't destroy first. A rebuild would imply trading Weber, Price and Patch.

    rebuild
    verb
    build (something) again after it has been damaged or destroyed.

    A retool means you change some of the tools for new (and hopefully better) ones but you keep the toolbox. Getting Tavares, drafting Dahlin and trading patch for a 2nd line center would be a retool.

    retool
    verb
    equip (a factory) with new or adapted tools.

    Tweak
    verb
    improve (a mechanism or system) by making fine adjustments to it.

    A tweak implies very fine adjustments. If you're getting or replacing core pieces it's not a tweak. A tweak would be trading Benn and Schlemko away and using Juulsen and Lernout as a 3rd pairing.

    A retool might work. A tweak wont. We need to get core pieces. Keeping what we already have and not rebuild would make sense only if we can get the missing pieces in the next 2 years if not then just rebuild. Stastny is a tweak not a retool (at this point he's not much better than Danault). Tavares would be a retool.
     
  21. Miller Time

    Miller Time Registered User

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    Draft Dahlin
    Sign Tavares
    Trade Patches for RNH or ROR (with whatever pick/prospects sweetners from either side needed to make the deal)
    Dump Shaw/Alzner w/o taking salary back

    we're due from some good luck, aren't we???

    Drouin - Tavares - Gallagher
    Galch - RNH/ROR - Scherbak
    Lekhonen - Danault - Hudon
    Byron - JDR - Deslauriers

    Dhalin - Weber
    Mete - Petry
    Benn - Juulsen
    Reilly

    Price
    Lingren
     
  22. Ozymandias

    Ozymandias #MolsonPleaseQuit

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    That was WITH Markov.

    Don't expect the same without replacing him.
     
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  23. beowulf

    beowulf Not a nice guy.

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    You live in one hell of a dream world.
     
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  24. G0bias

    G0bias B L O O D L I N E S

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    Would be 2nd top5 pick in 7 years; Galchenyuk and this year. Sergachev was 9th ov.

    But I disagree with the rest. Had we simply KEPT our players instead of trading them away and signed the players we needed to sign. Drafted one of Debrincat/Girard with the two 2nds instead of giving them away for Shaw. This is what it would look like right now.

    Pacioretty - X - Radulov
    Debrincat - Galchenyuk - Scherbak
    Lehkonen - Danault - Gallagher

    Markov - Subban
    Sergachev - Petry
    Mete - X

    And that's not even with a big deadline trade or UFA signing.
    Might not be contender caliber yet but it's damn near close. We'd have five legitimate top 6 guys, a #1 franchise PMD and a left side that can actually move the puck.
    There's already a WORLD of difference between that and the circus show we iced to start the year.
     
  25. Milhouse40

    Milhouse40 Registered User

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    Which picks are the most likely to ''connect''?
    Well let's look at 2010 throught 2016 draft (2017-2018 are too early to tell):

    Going only by point production.
    Top 7 best picks in 2010: #2-#1-#7-#16-#4-#14-#9
    Top 5 best picks in 2011: #2-#58-#1-#104-(#7-#8-#3-#43 are all equals)
    Top 7 best picks in 2012: #11-#3-#5-#17-#78-#18-#30
    Top 7 best picks in 2013: #1-#6-#2-#5-#4-#9-#14
    Top 7 best picks in 2014: #3-#25-#9-#2-#15-#112-#8
    Top 7 best picks in 2015: #1-#2-#4-#10-#35-#16-#8

    Top 2 picks usually have a higher chances to connect the right way...after that, not so much.

    As for St-Louis....a lot of Habs fans were drooling over their prospect. Just like many are drooling over Bjorgstrom in Florida picked at 23. But which team do you think should we model about it?

    Pittsburgh? Impossible. That was pure luck.
    Boston? Since 2001 they picked only 4 times in the top 10: Hamill, Kessle, Hamilton and Seguin. That help them.
    Nashville? Since 2004 they only picke 2 times in the top 10 : Jones and Wilson.

    Like i said earlier, there's not ONE recipe to success, there's many. If there's only one recipe, then everybody would do it and have success after doing it.
     
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