Why Mark Messier is Often Regarded the Worst/Most Hated Vancouver Canuck of All Time.

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*Disclaimer: this is a purely informative piece meant to enlighten hockey fans on the influence of Mark Messier on the Vancouver Canucks. This is not meant to be offensive or controversial, and is only designed to allow readers to understand his relationship with the team and the fanbase.

With all due to respect to Mark Messier and the incredible career he had, there was a period in his career in which he was nothing short of a cancer to his team. Canucks fans who experienced this era are well aware of Messier's effect on the franchise and why he is the most hated player in franchise history. This thread is designed to share with readers the story of Mark Messier's relationship with the Vancouver Canucks throughout the 1990s. Undoubtedly, this story was not as well-documented outside of Vancouver, but those who had witnessed and experienced it over a period of those three years will be able to recall a tale of disappointment, division, and bitterness.

The story begins in the 1996 off-season when the Canucks were in search of a top-line center. Pat Quinn, the Canucks' general manager at the time, had targeted Wayne Gretzky as his free agent of choice. Unfortunately, Quinn's own impatience resulted in him presenting Gretzky with an ultimatum in the middle of one summer's evening, calling him in the middle of the night to make a decision about where he would sign. Gretzky took offense and ultimately chose not to sign with Vancouver. Having missed this opportunity, another high-profile free agent centerman, Mark Messier, was available the following off-season, and served as a consolation for Quinn's failure.

Messier signed with the team in the summer of 1997, and fans generally viewed the acquisition positively. They were well aware of how Messier had led the Rangers to the Stanley Cup victory in the 1994 playoffs and how he had decimated the hopes and dreams of Canucks fans that year. Fans were still bitter, but were generally prepared to forgive him; he was a Canadian player, a renowned leader returning to the Canadian west. When he joined the team, he was expected to contribute as one of the team's top players. He was the highest-paid player on the team, earning $6 million per year, and fans had certain hopes for him.

Instead, his signing marked the beginning of a period of disaster for the franchise. As soon as he joined the team, he demanded to wear the unofficially-retired #11, which had been retired to acknowledge and respect the passing of an original Canuck, Wayne Maki, in 1974. The organization gave him the number without the consent of Maki's family, which sparked outrage from the family. At this point, the team had a new owner, having bought the team from the Canucks' previous long-time owners, the Griffiths family, after the latter had overspent to build GM Place. The McCaws were supposed to only own a share of the team, but took advantage of this opportunity to buy the remaining shares. The mysterious and very private McCaw brothers now owned the team, and business became very secretive and sketchy. Giving the #11 to Messier was one of these slimy decisions.

More on the Griffiths-McCaw story: http://www.lcshockey.com/issues/57/feature10.asp
Here in Vancouver, the McCaw family remains shrouded in mystery. The brothers are notoriously media-shy and do not grant interviews. There has been little public indication of their plans for Orca Bay or their teams. Local sports fans take solace in the knowledge that the family also owns the arena, so they would gain nothing by moving their two prime tenants out of Vancouver. There's also some reassurance in the success that the McCaws had in building, then selling, their cellular phone business. But that's about all that anybody knows so far. When Orca Bay held the press conference to announce the change in Arthur's ownership status, John McCaw agreed to talk to the media afterwards only on the condition that no cameras or tape recorders be present in the room. Even then, he offered little in the way of a vision of the future of Orca Bay.

Before the season began, Trevor Linden gave his captaincy to Messier as a sign of respect, but later regretted giving the captaincy to him, as he felt Messier had imposed an unwelcome presence on the team. As soon as Messier stepped on the ice, fans knew he was not the same player he was even a year ago. Game footage from the 1997-98, 1998-99, and 1999-2000 seasons clearly show that Messier was not interested from the very start. Statistics affirm this as well. He was a disastrous signing, proving to be a lazy player who took short shifts, shied away from physicality, did not shoot the puck, nor carried with him his mean streak from past years. Those who witnessed those seasons know how dreadful he was.

Mark Messier looked like only a shell of his former self. He was a totally different player, despite wearing the captain's "C" and being paid $6 million. Mickey Redmond mentioned in an early game between the Canucks and Red Wings during the 1997-98 season that Messier did not look like himself. He showed no heart, no grit, no passion. He played a lazy game and was often a liability.

The team struggled early in the season, and so GM Pat Quinn fired coach Tom Renney and introduced Mike Keenan to the team -- another mistake. Keenan immediately changed the dressing room philosophy and made the team feel even more uncomfortable; soon afterwards, the McCaws fired Quinn and promoted Keenan to GM as well as coach.

Keenan played favorites, often allowing Messier to roam in whatever role he was comfortable with. Messier, meanwhile, was often seen socializing with Keenan at Vancouver Grizzlies games. The two had a clear connection that the rest of the team did not share. As the Canucks continued to sink with Messier and Keenan at the helm, the organization did the unthinkable and traded away all of the fan favorite players, including the beloved long-time captain, Trevor Linden. Keenan traded away Linden, Gino Odjick, Kirk McLean, Martin Gelinas, and Dave Babych that season, leaving the Canucks with barely any of its previous personality. They were soulless, cycling through goaltenders, swapping parts, and remaining a bottom-dweller for three seasons. Keenan and Messier were in full control until Keenan was replaced by Brian Burke the following year.

Linden's camp later made clear that Messier's presence felt hostile, and that Keenan was a huge issue as well. Several players were outspoken about Messier, including Gino Odjick:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hockey/nhl/news/2001/08/08/sayitaintso_canucks/
In the offseason, the Canucks signed Mark Messier, and Linden graciously gave up his captaincy to him. But the team continued to struggle with Renney, and he was fired on Nov. 12.

Keenan replaced Renney and was given the authority to make personnel changes. He did just that. From his arrival, Keenan feuded with Linden, and the coach got rid of his problem, angering the Vancouver fans.

And, in the words of the New York Daily News' Frank Brown:
Linden, asked to deal with Mark Messier's hostile takeover of the dressing room, responded by surrendering the captaincy.
Here are two articles from the end of the 1997-98 season detailing Messier's relationship with his teammates:
Messier: Did the Canucks miss the Mark?: It has not been a vintage season for the Canucks and their newest captain.: [Final Edition]
Mason, Gary. The Vancouver Sun [Vancouver, B.C] 17 Apr 1998: E1 / FRONT.

...

Expectations. Oh, yea, there were certainly those. About $37 million US worth of them. And Messier was a big chunk of that... I've studied Messier up close this season and don't know him one ounce better than I did before he arrived. Well, maybe I do. I know how important his image is to him and how closely he guards and protects it. And monitors it too... Messier doesn't indulge in the easy banter of his teammates. After the game, after he's showered and dressed, he steps before his dressing room stall, stiff-backed, chin up, to offer his pronouncements on the game. Then he's gone... He's often moved through this season alone. On the plane and team bus, he's sat by himself, deep in private thoughts. Most players couldn't summon the nerve to sit and chat with him. Which surprised me. I thought the art of team building, as Messier so expertly knows it, happened differently.

...

Messier's contribution this season will mostly be measured by his performance on the ice... His play away from the puck has been the biggest concern. But let's be clear here: this was not one of Messier's strong suits in New York either. He still thinks offence first... But Messier's defensive lapses have given other teams goals. And cost the Canucks games. Personally, this has been the most annoying aspect of Messier's conduct this season: Never once did I hear him single out his own poor play after a bad game... I never heard Messier say that this year: `that was my guy who scored. I have to pick him up. It cost us the game.'

What I have heard from Messier has surprised me. A great deal of talk about injuries that have plagued him. There were also the over- blown comments about the arena's bad ice. Regardless, it's often sounded like excuses and I've never known Mark Messier to rely on an excuse in his life.

...

Messier was always the teacher's pet. In Keenan's eyes, he could do no wrong. While the coach didn't hesitate to rip into anyone else for lackadaisical play, he would never finger his captain. If I was a player on that bench, watching the way Messier played some nights, I'd have problems with that. Because it smacks of preferential treatment. Which is okay if someone is playing like a superstar, but not if his wide circles are costing you goals.

While this might have cost Messier some respect in the dressing room this season, a bigger problem has been the role he's played in personnel decisions. Former Canuck Gino Odjick's outspoken comments about Messier's thirst for power and the influence he has on all trades, speak best to the problem the Canuck captain has... there's no question he's had input on moves. Shortly after arriving he talked to Tom Renney about a few players he thought weren't of any use to the team. And I can see how this might create problems for teammates... At times Messier has wanted to distance himself from this role and at other times he hasn't.

He's been a skating contradiction. When I talked to him in January he told me the team needed to be completely restructured.

...
I blame Messier: With the Canucks captain in his sights, Gino Odjick hits his Mark: [Final Edition]
Gallagher, Tony. The Province [Vancouver, B.C] 02 Apr 1998: A64.

Gino Odjick has been thinking about speaking his mind for quite some time since leaving Vancouver. On Wednesday, perhaps the most popular player in the history of the Canucks pulled the trigger. The target was Mark Messier, the man Odjick says consults regularly with coach and acting GM Mike Keenan on trades and management moves and is largely responsible for the shambles this season has become. While declining to say what put him over the top and made him finally decide to speak out, Odjick started at the beginning.

"Messier was brought here to help lead us... and everybody was on board waiting to go along with him," said Odjick, who was in his eighth season with the Canucks when traded to the New York Islanders March 23..."... We were all looking forward to the season positively. It was going to be great. But right from the start it was clear he wanted to have all the power and wanted his own people around him.

"He didn't break a sweat for the first 10 games and just waited for Tom Renney and Pat Quinn to get fired.

"He talks to ownership all the time and he's responsible for Keenan being here and he's part of most of the trades... He's responsible for a lot of the changes.

"Look what happened with Trevor (Linden) in St. Louis when Keenan gave him (hell). Did he come over to him and say, 'Look Trev, we're with you?' He didn't say a word. How can you be captain like that? How can the team be together that way? He's not with the players. He's the one who controls everything."

...

"They signed him to help us but all he wanted was most of us out of there so he could bring in his own people. The organization has always been great, but he just wanted to tear it apart and do it his way. But you'll never see Keenan bench Messier, no matter how bad he plays."

Odjick did not pretend he was crucial to the success of the Canucks or any other team.

"I'm nobody. I'm not the kind of player who can carry a team or make a big difference. I haven't won six Stanley Cups, but I've always been able to look everyone I've ever played with in the eye. I've been honest and I've got to be honest. He (Messier) just wants to destroy everything so he gets the power. Everyone is brought in to play for Mark."

...
Messier calls for team unity: Canucks' captain angry with loose- lipped teammates airing beefs through the media, calling it `completely unacceptable.': [Final Edition]
Mason, Gary. The Vancouver Sun [Vancouver, B.C] 10 Jan 1998: D1 / FRONT.

...

"Ninety per cent of the players don't want to do it because it's so hard and maybe they don't see themselves in the role that they're playing or maybe they don't see themselves being played in the right situations or themselves being successful individually. Maybe they're under contract, maybe they're playing out their option. There's a million reasons why they don't."

...

"Everybody wants a player who's played on a championship team at some point." You look at this Canuck team and you see a $37 million US lemon. Messier looks at this team and says the payroll doesn't mean anything. "If anything, it's masqueraded some of the real problems here that are hampering the team. I think you have to take money out of the equation. This team needs to be completely restructured. Talent is only one element of many elements that it takes to be a competitive team, let alone a championship team."

...

"In my mind there's definitely a formula to winning. And I know, from all the championship teams I've played on, it's always the same kinds of things that were in place..." Messier has thought a lot about winning, about the richness of the team experience when it all comes together. "I can't teach my students; I can only help them explore themselves," Messier says, quoting a well-known Buddhist verse.

...

Some people feel Messier's own play hasn't exactly been stellar. That Keenan is asking everyone else to go out and punish the opposition except Messier. He says his game has changed over the years. He isn't as physically dominating a player as he once was because the players in the league have changed. They're bigger and faster. And they don't allow Messier to do the things he once did.

"And let's face it, I'm not 25 years old anymore. But I feel great physically and mentally. I'm as motivated as ever to do what it takes to win." He's also playing 25 to 30 minutes a game and when you're playing that much, at his age, you have to use your brains a bit more, not run at everything that moves. In an interview filled with important messages, Messier delivers a final one. His allegiance is completely to his teammates. He is not, as some have suggested, a GM disguised as a captain... Messier makes no apologies for sitting courtside with Keenan and owner John McCaw at a recent basketball game. A scene that cemented the impression in some people's minds that he was aligned more with management than the players. He says McCaw's a friend who invited him to attend the game.

"I don't think there's anything wrong with that because there was nothing more than that. That's the way I want it and that's the way it should be."

...
Messier lost a lot of respect in the dressing room for his hypocrisy: he was lazy, offered some of the most uninspired play of anyone on the team, provided no leadership in the dressing room, and yet seemed to demand that changes be made to shape the room into something more inspired. He isolated himself from his teammates and spent no time developing any sort of relationship with the community. That's not the way to go. He wanted to play the role of manager while also being one the most overpaid players on the team and a terrible role model; to make matters worse, the team's long-time captain was present in the room while all of this unfolded. Linden and Keenan clashed; Messier was on Keenan's side. That was not a very pleasant dressing room.

One wouldn't think of Messier as a good leader during his time in Vancouver; he was a tyrant.

Also, in reference to some of his complaints:
Sore elbow behind Messier's frustrating season Vancouver Canucks' fans boo team captain who is averaging less than a point a game
Kerr, Grant. The Globe and Mail [Toronto, Ont] 26 Mar 1998: S.3.

VANCOUVER -- Mark Messier has been fumbling with the puck for several weeks because of a sore arm. Now the proud captain of the Vancouver Canucks must fight back the disappointment of being jeered by fickle fans at GM Place.

Messier heard the boo birds this week and admitted he's having a hard time playing up to even his own standards, let alone the expectations of fans after signing a three-year, $20-million (U.S.) contract.

Vancouver fans shocked long-time observers Tuesday when they suddenly turned on Messier, 37, and booed him in the second period after the centre took the puck away from unsuspecting teammate Brian Noonan in the offensive zone against the New York Islanders. The play was innocent enough and the two players seemed to joke about it later on the bench.

But fans were in no mood for frivolity as they've come to expect much more from the veteran of 19 seasons in the National Hockey League.

...

"It's been a frustrating month for myself, playing with my [sore] elbow," Messier said later. "I don't have any qualms about [the booing]. I expect a lot of myself and it's been a tough month.

"There's been no time to sit out and rest. When you play injured and you're not 100 per cent, you open yourself to some criticism and that's part of the game. You have to be big enough and strong enough to stand up to the criticism that comes your way when you're not playing up to your ability."

...

Messier had problems controlling the puck against the Islanders, once forcing an offside when the disc seemed to almost stick to the ice. Messier agreed with the observation that ice conditions in Vancouver have been terrible all season.

"We have the worst ice in the league," Messier said. "We've got guys that would excel on great ice. I don't think there's any excuse for it and it has to be addressed."

...
Works Cited

Gallagher, Tony. "I Blame Messier: With the Canucks Captain in His Sights, Gino Odjick Hits His Mark." The Province: 0. Apr 02 1998. ProQuest. Web. 18 Oct. 2014 .

Kerr, Grant. "Sore Elbow Behind Messier's Frustrating Season Vancouver Canucks' Fans Boo Team Captain Who is Averaging Less than a Point a Game." The Globe and Mail: 0. Mar 26 1998. ProQuest. Web. 18 Oct. 2014 .

Mason, Gary. "Messier: Did the Canucks Miss the Mark?: It has Not been a Vintage Season for the Canucks and their Newest Captain." The Vancouver Sun: 0. Apr 17 1998. ProQuest. Web. 18 Oct. 2014 .


Mason, Gary. "Messier Calls for Team Unity: Canucks' Captain Angry with Loose- Lipped Teammates Airing Beefs through the Media, Calling it `completely Unacceptable.'." The Vancouver Sun: 0. Jan 10 1998. ProQuest. Web. 18 Oct. 2014 .
Another quotation from the Vancouver Sun is from Trevor Linden and Pat Quinn in retrospect:
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Sixteen+defining+moments+Trevor+Linden+career/1068425/story.html
Linden claimed the decision to hand over the 'C' was his and his alone. "I didn't know what I was going to do and I didn't want to make a quick decision," Linden explained. "I wanted to see how it played out. You know, the day I was driving from Whistler to go to the [Messier signing] announcement I turned on the radio in my car and the first thing I heard was 'would Messier be captain?' "I was monitoring the situation and was waiting to see what felt right. And it just felt right. Now I'll be apprenticing under one of the best leaders in professional sport." Long-time Canuck GM Pat Quinn nodded his approval. "Let's face it, we acquired a player who has an aura of leadership about him," Quinn said of Messier. "Trevor felt it would be better to defer the captaincy to a person of Mark's presence and accomplishments." A month later, Quinn was fired. Four months later, Linden was traded to the New York Islanders.
And more about his relationship with Keenan:
He was an outstanding prospect as a teenager and won two Memorial Cups with the Medicine Hat Tigers. He was drafted second overall by the Canucks in 1988, had a wonderful 30-goal rookie season, was named captain at age 20 and nearly led his team to the Stanley Cup in 1994. So he was unprepared — would anybody be? — for the vicious verbal assault from new head coach Mike Keenan on Dec. 8, 1997. Keenan had replaced Tom Renney a month earlier and obviously wasn't enamoured with Linden or anything about him. Linden injured his groin just one week into Keenan's reign and returned to the lineup that fateful night in St. Louis. It was also Keenan's first time back in St. Louis after being fired by the Blues the previous season. With the Canucks down 4-1 heading into the third period, Keenan decided to unload on Linden. According to former Sun columnist Gary Mason, Iron Mike was incensed that Linden was commending some of his teammates for their effort to that point. "Shut the bleep up, just shut the bleep up!" Keenan screamed. "Who the bleep are you?" Keenan questioned Linden's pride in a tirade that continued for three or four minutes. Mason wrote that Keenan later apologized, but the damage was done. The relationship between coach and player was beyond repair. It was only a matter of time until Linden was gone. Two of his pals, Kirk McLean and Martin Gelinas, were traded on Jan. 2. The house cleaning in Vancouver was under way. Linden would be next.

Iron Mike's got a friend in Messier
Star - Phoenix [Saskatoon, Sask] 08 Jan 1998: B3.

VANCOUVER (CP) -- Vancouver Canuck captain Mark Messier has come to the defence of head coach Mike Keenan, indicating the only controversy about the team should be its last-place standing.

Keenan has been in the eye of a media hurricane since Sunday when he publicly accused popular Canuck veteran Trevor Linden of playing at "50 per cent."

Details of his harsh treatment of Linden during a December game in St. Louis and apparently petty incidents involving traded winger Martin Gelinas were also reported in the Vancouver Sun.

"It depends what you think is controversy," Messier said Tuesday when asked about the turmoil that has engulfed the team in recent days.

...

Keenan smiled when he was told about Messier's comments.

"When you're in last place there's a tremendous amount of controversy," Keenan said.

...

Messier also played under Keenan in New York, where the two helped the Rangers to the Stanley Cup.

Keenan said Monday that he had some regrets about criticizing Linden through the media, rather than dealing with the player privately.

"I knew I was at risk by going public," he said Tuesday. "It was a high-risk move. I knew it would be controversial and I knew I'd be criticized. I took that risk because I care a great deal about Trevor. I want him to be part of this.

"Those people who find it most difficult to change, if in the end they can accept it, they're the strongest rooted. I'm very emotional. I care a great deal. Sometimes if I make errors I'm erring on the side of risk because I do care passionately about what I'm doing."

...
Trevor Linden knew the trade was coming, he just didn't know where or when. He finally found out on Feb. 6, 1998. The first to tell him was equipment manager Pat O'Neill. He then heard it from head coach Mike Keenan moments later. He was off to the New York Islanders for young defenceman Bryan McCabe, promising but moody power forward Todd Bertuzzi and a third-round pick that became Jarkko Ruutu. After 10 years, Trevor Linden was finished as a Canuck. "It's a difficult day," said Linden, 27, at his farewell news conference. "I can't say enough about the time I spent here. The people have been tremendous. On the other hand, I knew something was going to happen. It's a chance for me to start again and move forward. "I have to say things weren't going really well here, the team was struggling and I was as well." At the heart of the trade was the poisonous relationship between Keenan, who became coach in mid-November, and Linden, the former franchise golden boy who had surrendered his captaincy to Keenan favourite Mark Messier. Everyone considered the moving of Linden as inevitable. "I don't know if the word 'inevitable' is correct," responded Keenan. "There was certainly a little bit of controversy that was expounded upon to make it a great deal of controversy by the media. "However, I think it should be noted that Trevor has unfortunately had some injuries this year and didn't quite get on track even before I arrived here." Linden was suffering from a knee injury when he was traded.
Traded now was the team captain who had led the team through thick and thin since 1990, who had offered the most inspiring playoff performance in franchise history playing through some of the most difficult injuries any player could endure, and who was the heart of the team:

http://canucks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=453227
"You don't know this, but Trevor Linden had cracked ribs and torn rib cartilage for the last four games of the 1994 Stanley Cup Final," Cliff Ronning said. "You can't imagine what it's like to hear your captain, in a room down the hall, screaming at the top of his lungs as they injected the needle into his rib cage. Knowing him, he probably thought we couldn't hear. He would then walk into our dressing room like nothing had happened. That was inspirational."
At one point in Game 6 in Vancouver, Linden crawled on the ice to get to his bench, he was in so much pain.
"Quinn slowly groomed our team as he went along and he needed a captain who shared his philosophy of hard work," Ronning said. "Trevor never took a shift off. He sacrificed his body to block shots and did a lot of little things that some scorers won't do. That's what made him an excellent captain."
Odd visits the Garage: Linden cheered, Messier jeered in homecoming: [Final C Edition]
Jamieson, Jim. The Province [Vancouver, B.C] 25 Mar 1998: A50.

In the strangest Canucks season in recent memory there were even more oddities Tuesday night at the Garage.

The visiting team's captain got a standing ovation from the sellout crowd, while the Canucks skipper received his first Bronx cheers of the season.

...

Linden was the subject of a moving video tribute in the pre-game ceremonies that ended with the scoreboard flashing Thanks Trevor to a roar from the crowd. But the Canucks scored the first goal of the game, 2:29 in, and never trailed.

"It was an odd day all around, with the trading deadline (at noon) and then Trevor and Gino (Odjick) playing for the other team," said Canucks defenceman Bret Hedican, now one of the longest- surviving members of the team. "We knew there would be a lot of emotion at the start of the game, so we tried to keep it simple."

...

The counterpoint to the love-in with Linden came in the second period when Canucks captain Mark Messier stole the puck from teammate Brian Noonan as he was teeing it up to shoot and then on the ensuing rush put himself offside.

The boos rained down on Messier, who was caught flat-footed by Claude Lapointe to create a two-on-one leading to the Isles' first goal near the end of the first period.

"It's been a frustrating month for me," said Messier, in reference to the tendinitis in his left elbow that's plagued him. "So I have no qualms about (the booing). I've had no time to sit out and when you play injured you open yourself up to criticism."

Messier lambasted the bad ice at GM Place, which has been a hot potato all season, blaming it for putting him offside.

...
Works Cited

"Iron Mike's Got a Friend in Messier." Star - Phoenix: 0. Jan 08 1998. ProQuest. Web. 18 Oct. 2014 .

Jamieson, Jim. "Odd Visits the Garage: Linden Cheered, Messier Jeered in Homecoming." The Province: 0. Mar 25 1998. ProQuest. Web. 18 Oct. 2014 .
With the core group of players now gone as part of Keenan and Messier's regime, the team was left mangled, hardly resembling its former self; meanwhile, the team finished in third-last place in the NHL that year with a record of 25-43-14. The team was absolute garbage, had a slimy owner, a ruinous GM/coach, and a cancerous team captain.

At the start of the following season, this is what Messier had to say:
Mess, Mike keeping faith: [Final Edition]
Gallagher, Tony. The Province [Vancouver, B.C] 17 Sep 1998: A60.

...

"I came into this with my eyes open," said Messier, fairly convincingly. "I knew from the players around the league last year this was going to be tough and a lot of changes to the structure and organization had to be made. I knew the players weren't here. And I didn't want an accelerated or rushed plan in because of my age. I know it doesn't work like that.

"I have no trouble with being in a position similar to Slava Fetisov. He won Cups the past two seasons at ages 39 and 40 while playing a lesser role and that's the situation I may be in when we win here. It might be sooner if a lot of these young guys can play. But I don't have to be in the prominent role to win again. I know I probably won't, I'll have to contribute in other ways and my role will change. I have no problem with that."

...
Works Cited

Gallagher, Tony. "Mess, Mike Keeping Faith." The Province: 0. Sep 17 1998. ProQuest. Web. 18 Oct. 2014 .
McCaw replaced Keenan at the beginning of the 1998-99 season with Brian Burke and Marc Crawford, and things began to move in the proper direction again; Keenan's removal prompted Messier to change in ways, and the youth on the team began to listen to him, though Messier's continued on-ice laziness and poor performances continued.

Here is a fight involving Messier from the 1998-99 season. Aside from the fight itself, the more glaring detail is the comment Jim Robson, the Canucks' legendary play-by-play announcer, makes in the following video clip:

"We haven't seen that from Messier for two seasons."



Messier's poor influence was reduced to his on-ice effort level. Off ice, Messier became less of a distraction; that said, with no other veterans really left on the team Messier could say what he wanted to the kids.

After the 1997-98 debacle, Messier was simply an old, ineffective, lazy player on a bottom-dwelling team that he and Keenan were responsible for creating.

Some players such as Markus Naslund valued Messier's time with the team. By 2000 he had been "tamed" so that he was not barking at the GM or the coach about what he should do. If he would have done the same things that he did under Keenan (and Renney/Quinn), Burke would have sent him packing. Messier was simply a veteran voice by that time, and familiarity with him was something Burke likely valued in terms of maintaining consistency within the leadership group. Clearly the rest of Vancouver was calling for Messier to leave. In that sense, he finally gave Canucks fans what they wanted; at the same time, within the dressing room he had started something and decided not to see it through all the way.

It was also McCaw who specifically instructed Burke to try to keep Messier.
Burke now in full control: New general manager of the Vancouver Canucks leaves no doubt he is in total control of the hockey operations of the franchise. He's also pleased his head coach is Mike Keenan.: [Final Edition]
MacIntyre, Iain. The Vancouver Sun [Vancouver, B.C] 23 June 1998: F3 / FRONT.

...

Resolute, charismatic and passionate, Burke delivered Monday a manifesto about the new Vancouver Canucks, of whom he was officially named general manager during a downtown press conference.

Mike Keenan will stay with the organization but is strictly the coach. Period.

Captain Mark Messier will play better, and won't be making any trades. Period.

...

Many are expecting titanic clashes between Keenan and the equally strong-minded Burke, although the new general manager made it clear he believes they will co-exist and flourish.

But it is also clear who will go if someone must.

"Much has been written about Mike Keenan," Burke said, voluntarily raising the coach-manager issue. "I want to be crystal clear; I have been given complete authority over the hockey operations. That said, I'm thrilled Mike Keenan is coaching.

"I have no problem with Mike personally or professionally. There will be no buyout of Mike Keenan. He is the coach and will coach the hockey team. It's not something I've been saddled with; it's something I've been blessed with."

Told that Keenan spoke often last season about the merits of the Detroit Red Wings' management structure, which allowed coach Scotty Bowman to control player personnel, Burke said: "That's not our model. I'll accept input from Mike and value it, but I have authority to make decisions.

"I think it's important for Mike and I to make sure everyone knows what the boundaries are. They will be clear."

Those boundaries will be clear in the dressing room, as well, as Burke emphasized that players shall concern themselves only with what happens on the ice.

Last season, Messier was criticized by ex-teammate Gino Odjick for overstepping his role as captain and using his friendship with Keenan to orchestrate the trade of teammates.

...

"I will simplify his life," Burke said of Messier. "All he has to do is play. All Mark Messier is going to be for me is a player, and he is a great player. We need Mark to play better than he did last year. I think he can and will. I don't see any change in his ability as a leader. Maybe his minutes get reduced, but that's up to Mike Keenan. We need Mark to bounce back and have a better year."

...

"Inmates don't run the asylum..."

...
Keenan didn't last very long under Burke.
It's time to end Canucks circus: Keenan, Burke had uneasy trust from the outset: [National Edition]
National Post [Don Mills, Ont] 26 Jan 1999: B17.

The circus must end now. The firing of Canucks coach Mike Keenan and the hiring of Marc Crawford draws to a close one of the sorriest and ugliest chapters in the history of the franchise. It's been a 15-month soap opera that began with the firing of then-GM Pat Quinn in November 1997, and ended this weekend when the relationship between Keenan and current GM Brian Burke was mercifully, terminated. That's enough. Now Burke has the mountainous task of regaining the trust of fans alienated during this period, rebuilding a hockey team that has many flaws and re-establishing respect for a team and organization that has become somewhat of a joke.

...

Most troubling is how the situation got to this point. It was clear from the outset there was an uneasy trust between the two. Burke did not like or respect Keenan before he took over as GM. Questions will also remain about how effective Keenan was in Vancouver.

...

In the end, his firing didn't have as much to do with the job he was doing behind the bench as the tangible mistrust between him and Burke, who was not going to make progress with this organization until he had a coach he felt comfortable with. It's too bad that three-quarters of a season was essentially wasted before this inevitable conclusion was reached.

When you add this latest controversy to what the Canuck fan has had to endure the last two years it is mind-boggling. And Orca Bay owner John McCaw must assume full responsibility.

...

More bizarre was the notion of a coach changing a hockey team while a search for a general manager was under way. You had the prospect of a coach handing over a team to someone else after radically changing it in his likeness. What if the new GM had a different vision? Which, to an extent, is what happened.

Keenan's goals were more short term, win now, while Burke clearly was in favour of building a Cup contender for the future.

The search for a GM was another sideshow, as Orca Bay courted the likes of Glen Sather and others. Eventually, the job was given to Burke, who arrived with a refreshing, no-nonsense attitude and a promise that he would bring stability to an organization in shambles.

...

Which led, ultimately, to the next spectacle: Burke's much- maligned travelling roadshow to try and drum up interest in his precious, if slightly flawed, commodity. Meantime, the season began with more empty seats than people had seen in ages.

...
Keenan speaks out after firing, defends record with Canucks
The Globe and Mail [Toronto, Ont] 03 Feb 1999: S.2.

Vancouver -- Mike Keenan "just can't understand" why he was fired as the Vancouver Canucks' coach just two games after Pavel Bure was traded and wishes his ousting "had been handled better" by the National Hockey League club.

Keenan, writing in his weekly column in The Sporting News, defended his record with the struggling team and said he had no problems working with Canucks general manager Brian Burke.

"But in many ways, it appears Burke had his mind made up right from the beginning," Keenan said in his first public comments about his Jan. 24 firing.

Keenan was replaced by Marc Crawford in a messy departure that dragged through the weekend. Rumours began to swirl on radio talk shows Friday night, and a local newspaper said the coach was gone Saturday. But Burke didn't officially tell Keenan he was fired until Sunday afternoon.

"It's unfortunate how this all came down. I wish this had been handled better," Keenan said.

In announcing his decision, Burke voiced harsh criticism of Keenan, calling the season "an unmitigated disaster" since Christmas and saying he had "issues with the way our hockey club has been coached."

...
The scary thing to think about is that the gutting of the team in 1997-98 might have been an attempt for Keenan to win short term. By all accounts, reports are that the practices under Keenan were pathetic. The team lacked defensive structure. It's quite possible that all of the moves Keenan was doing (with Messier's advice) were not for the sake of a rebuild and that he really had no idea what he was doing.

Here are all of the transactions pre-Burke:

http://www.nucksmisconduct.com/2011/7/11/2269136/history-of-canucks-trades-and-signings-1970-present
January 1998: To Vancouver: Sean Burke, Geoff Sanderson and Enrico Ciccone
To Carolina: Martin Gelinas and Kirk McLean.

February 1998: To Buffalo: Geoff Sanderson
To Vancouver: Brad May and a 3rd round pick in 1999 (Rene Vydareny).

To Philadelphia: Mike Sillinger
To Vancouver: 5th round pick in 1998 Draft (Garrett Prosofsky)

To Vancouver: Peter Zezel
To New Jersey: 5th round pick in 1998 (Anton But)

To Islanders: Trevor Linden
To Vancouver: Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan McCabe, and a 3rd round pick in 1998 (Jarkko Ruutu)

March 1998: To Boston: Grant Ledyard
To Vancouver: 8th round pick in 1998 (Curtis Valentine)

To Philadelphia: Sean Burke
To Vancouver: Garth Snow

To Toronto: Lonny Bohonos
To Vancouver: Brandon Convery

To Islanders: Gino Odjick
To Canucks: Jason Strudwick

To Philly: Dave Babych
To Vancouver: 3rd round pick in 1998 (Justin Morrison)
Keenan and Messier didn't really do anything useful aside from the Linden trade. All of the other trades were lateral moves. Trading the 2nd round pick that year away to New Jersey for Peter Zezel is not a rebuilding move.

Then there's Messier complaining that the "bad ice" is the reason for the poor play of the Canucks...
Memo to Messier: Just shut up: [Final Edition]
Taylor, Don. The Province [Vancouver, B.C] 31 Mar 1998: A33.

I've compiled a list of five things I'm getting sick and tired of hearing from pro athletes. I call it the "Just-shut-your-mouth-go-out-and-play-your-little- game-and-collect- your-big-paycheck-and-while-you're-at-it-learn- the-meaning-of-the-wo rd-`considerate'-list". The "Shut-your-mouth- list" for short. Before I go further, let me say I admire pro athletes. Heck, I'm almost 40 years old and I still dream of being one. Pro athletes get to be rich and famous. They're real-life heroes. Kids love them. So do members of the opposite sex -- which, probably more than anything else, explains why I still dream of being a pro athlete.

But, all too often lately, something will come out of an athlete's mouth that makes me think only people with the intelligence of a sofa get paid in sports.

They come up with comments that make me want to go up to some multi-millionaire superstar and say "Just shut your mouth, go out and play your little game and collect your big paycheck. And while you're at it, learn the meaning of the word `considerate.' See how easy it is to come up with a name for a list?

I put together the "Shut-your-mouth" list after hearing what Mark Messier had to say last Tuesday after Vancouver Canucks' game against the New York Islanders. That's when Messier, who played horribly that night, complained about the ice at GM Place. "We have the worst ice in the league," Messier said. "We've got guys who excel on great ice. There isn't any excuse for it and it's got to be fixed. Yeah, we've gone to management about it."

So that's what's wrong with the Canucks! Bad ice. Their nightmare season can be blamed on the GM Place maintenance crew. Not John McCaw, Mike Keenan or Pat Quinn. And certainly not Messier. No, the problem has to do with some guy making eight bucks an hour holding a rubber hose.

Memo to Mark: Sure the ice at GM Place is bad. But guess what? The Canucks aren't the only team that has to play on it.

Messier's weak comment falls into the No. 1 category on the "Shut- your-mouth" list: Athletes who complain about playing conditions after a poor performance. Here are the others:

1. Players who use the word "insulted" in response to a contract offer that would make the Sultan of Brunei jealous. Do you know what I'm insulted by? Spoiled brats.

3. Players who say, "I'm tired of losing. I want to be traded to a contender." My response: "If you're tired of losing, why don't you stay positive, work harder and turn the team you're with into a contender. Or would that take too much patience and class?"

4. An NBA favorite: Players who say the tax situation in Canada sucks. I'll tell you what sucks. Not knowing what it's like to be taxed on a seven-figure income.

5. Players who thank God for helping their team win. So, what did God do for the team you beat?

Well, that's it. I hope you enjoyed the "shut-your-mouth" list. If you didn't, please keep in mind I wrote it down while skating at GM Place. Damn crappy ice.
Ice leaves Mess cold: Now captain's blaming the rink for Canucks play: [Final Edition]
Chapman, Paul. The Province [Vancouver, B.C] 26 Mar 1998: A80 / FRONT.

The worst in the league. ...

Harsh words from Mark Messier.

But make no mistake, the Vancouver captain isn't stating the obvious about the standings-challenged Canucks.

He's pointing the finger at the GM Place ice. Messier slammed the ice, saying their million-dollar talent is suffering on a dime- store surface. But the man in charge of the ice says Messier is offside.

"I didn't like his comments," said Mark Wohl, Supervisor of Plant Operations. "The ice is not the worst in the league. We've had our problems, but it's no worse than the ice in Philly or Chicago, New York or any of the other places where they have multiple events.

...

"When Messier says things like that it brings down the whole crew. We're trying to get the best sheet of ice for them, too."

Messier lambasted the GM Place ice as the NHL's shoddiest after Tuesday's game against the New York Islanders, warning the problem "has to be addressed."

What drew Messier's wrath was that the ice for Tuesday's game had been covered by tons of wood, chairs and a mammoth stage for two weeks due to Sunday's Juno Awards.

"We have 250 events in here a year," he said. "When the floor is covered and you have forklifts going in and out it takes its toll.

...

Here are all of the acquisitions and trades that Burke orchestrated between July 1998 and June 2000.
July 1998: Canucks sign UFA Murray Baron.

October 1998: To Vancouver: Trent Klatt
To Philadelphia: 6th round pick in 2000 (Roman Cechmanek?).

December 1998: Vancouver claimed Harry York off waivers from Pittsburgh.

January 1999: Vancouver traded Pavel Bure, Bret Hedican, Brad Ference and Canucks' 3rd round pick in 1999 or 2000 (2000, Robert Fried) to Florida for Ed Jovanovski, Dave Gagner, Mike Brown, Kevin Weekes, and Florida's 1st round pick in the 1999 or 2000 Draft (2000, Nathan Smith).

February 1999: Vancouver traded Chris McAllister to Toronto for Darby Hendrickson.

Vancouver claimed Steve Washburn off waivers from Florida.

March 1999: Vancouver traded Jamie Hushcroft to Phoenix for future considerations.

June 1999: Vancouver signed Alfie Michaud as a FA.

Vancouver traded Bryan McCabe and a 1st round pick in either 2000 or 2001 (2000, Pavel Vorobiev) to Chicago for a 1st round pick in 1999.

July 1999: Canucks sign UFA Andrew Cassels.

August 1999: Canucks sign free agents Doug Bodger and Martin Gendron.

September 1999: Vancouver claimed Chris Joseph off waivers from Ottawa.

October 1999: (Detroit claimed Manny Legace off waivers from Vancouver.)

Atlanta traded Corey Schwab to Vancouver for a cond. pick in 2000 (Round 2, Libor Ustrnal).

December 1999: Islanders traded Felix Potvin and 2nd and 3rd round (Thatcher Bell) picks in 2000 to Vancouver for Bill Muckalt, Kevin Weekes and Dave Scatchard.

January 2000: New Jersey traded Vadim Sharifjanov to Vancouver for conditional draft picks.

(Phoenix claimed Chris Joseph off waivers from Vancouver.)

March 2000: Vancouver traded Alexander Mogilny to New Jersey for Denis Pederson and Brendan Morrison.
Works Cited

Chapman, Paul. "Ice Leaves Mess Cold: Now Captain's Blaming the Rink for Canucks Play." The Province: A80 / FRONT. Mar 26 1998. ProQuest. Web. 7 July 2015 .

Gare, Joyce. "Turning Over Leafs with Quintessential Coach FEATURING: Pat Quinn / Toronto Boss Ken Dryden was always Preaching Newness, then He Turned to the Stogie-Smoking, Meat-Eating Embodiment of Old-Time Hockey." The Globe and Mail: 0. Jul 04 1998. ProQuest. Web. 7 Nov. 2014 .

"It's Time to End Canucks Circus: Keenan, Burke had Uneasy Trust from the Outset." National Post: B17. Jan 26 1999. ProQuest. Web. 7 July 2015 .

"Keenan Speaks Out After Firing, Defends Record with Canucks." The Globe and MailFeb 03 1999. ProQuest. Web. 7 July 2015 .

MacIntyre, Iain. "Burke Now in Full Control: New General Manager of the Vancouver Canucks Leaves no Doubt He is in Total Control of the Hockey Operations of the Franchise. He's also Pleased His Head Coach is Mike Keenan." The Vancouver Sun: F3 / FRONT. Jun 23 1998. ProQuest. Web. 7 July 2015 .

Taylor, Don. "Memo to Messier: Just Shut Up." The Province: A33. Mar 31 1998. ProQuest. Web. 7 July 2015 .
Messier stated publicly that he had an interest in staying, but then he bolted when the Rangers offered a better price. He wasn't going to stay and fulfill his promise; he would instead leave the team in a state of uncertainty and without further guidance.
Not his fault about the money, Linden or the captaincy.

They paid him based on his name and prime years, which I'm guessing caused them to shed Linden's salary and to open up a top 6 spot. Plus Im sure Linden would've (or did? Cant remember) asked for a trade after being stripped of the captaincy and have it given to a newcomer.

I'm sure in hindsight he would've spent those 3 years in Manhattan (giving him a solid 13/14 years with NYR) and said **** the money.

He definitely didn't learn his lesson because his reason for re-joining the Rangers was the money that they offered to him in 2000.

The Canucks' plan was to buy out his contract, spending $2 million to do so, and then re-signing him at a lower price so that the team could save some money in the midst of their financial crisis.
Messier, Burke schedule meeting: [Final Edition]
Prince George Citizen [Prince George, B.C] 08 Feb 2000: 9.

VANCOUVER (CP) -- Vancouver Canuck general manager Brian Burke plans to meet with Mark Messier Thursday to discuss comments the veteran captain made during the all-star break that he expects to be traded before the NHL season ends.

"I have made this clear," Burke said Monday. "Mark has a no trade (clause) and I'm not going to ask him to waive it. What other thoughts Mark or I have, I'll sit down with him on Thursday."

Burke refused to say if Messier has asked to be traded.

"If Mark had made a request like that I certainly wouldn't share that with you," he said.

This weekend in Toronto Messier was asked if he'd be surprised by a trade before the NHL's March deadline.

"No, that wouldn't surprise me," Messier told the Vancouver Province.

"I don't know how this will play out. But whatever happens, I want it handled in a professional manner. This franchise has been through a lot in the last two years and it doesn't need another black eye. I don't want this turning into a sideshow."

Asked if he was surprised by Messier's comments, Burke said: "I wouldn't say that."

Messier, 39, is in the final season of a three-year, $18-million US contract. Vancouver owns a two-year option on Messier at $6 million US a year. A buyout would cost Vancouver $1 million US for each year.

...
Messier warming to idea of staying with Canucks: [Final Edition]
Nanaimo Daily News [Nanaimo, B.C] 20 Mar 2000: B3.

VANCOUVER (CP) -- The Vancouver Canucks are in the middle of a youth movement, and 39-year-old captain Mark Messier apparently wants to stay here to lead it.

Messier's future with the Canucks is still far from certain. But conversations with Messier over the weekend indicate he'd like nothing more than to sign a new deal during the summer and finish his career here.

"I could see that happening," said Messier. "I don't know what will happen but I'm enjoying myself here. It's a good place to play. The city, the facilities are good and the club is definitely moving in the right direction. I feel comfortable with the surroundings. I like the management, the coaching staff, the young players."

Messier signed a three-year, $18-million US contract in July 1997. The contract included a clause that gave the Canucks the option on two more years or the right to buy Messier out for $2 million US and let him walk as an unrestricted free agent.

Recently, Canucks president and general manager Brian Burke told Messier the club would opt for the latter, because they're trying to reduce their payroll.

But they'll try to sign Messier for less money when he's a free agent this summer, and Messier's talk now is music to Burke's ears.

"I'm very pleased with the way this has worked out," said Burke. "We've been honest with Mark and accorded him the respect he deserves. Now there's a chance he'll come back. I'm excited about that.

"There's money left in the budget to sign Mark but it's way too early to handicap our chances."

There is a possibility that another NHL team will make an offer for both dollars and length of contract that Messier can't refuse. But Messier wouldn't say this weekend what kind of money he'd be looking for.

"I haven't thought about that yet," said Messier when asked what it would take to retain his services. "I'd prefer to sit down in the summer and discuss it. Obviously, I'm not going to rule out anything. I'll talk to Vancouver. I'll be a free agent and I'll definitely look at offers."

Messier says he's aware of the financial constraints Canadian teams face. He understands Burke's decision last Tuesday to trade veteran Alexander Mogilny and his $5.2-million US contract (for 2000- 2001) to New Jersey for a pair of 24-year-old forwards, Denis Pederson and Brendan Morrison.

...

"Something is starting to develop. We're stockpiling some young talent and it's kind of exciting."
Burke likes Messier's plan: The Canucks' captain said he would like to play here another season, after three poor years, to be part of the team's turnaround.: [Final Edition]
MacIntyre, Iain. The Vancouver Sun [Vancouver, B.C] 18 Mar 2000: C2.

"I probably could have gone out and talked to some other teams and solidified myself [financially] for the next year or two," Messier said of his refusal to demand a trade at Tuesday's deadline. "But that's really not that important to me. I'll play the year here and I'll talk to Vancouver in the summertime. Putting money completely aside, I'll see whether they want me back just as a hockey player. But I think it's more important to know they want me back as a player contributor and then try and work out something with the salary."

The Canucks, who lost $91.9 million Cdn over the last four seasons, are under pressure to trim their payroll and shed Alex Mogilny and his $5.2-million US 2000-01 salary on Tuesday.

But Burke retained Messier, who is making $6 million US this season and has two option years at that amount, hoping the Canucks will be able to re-sign him for less this summer after paying a $2- million US buyout.

Messier, 39, would be an unrestricted free agent and could go anywhere he wants, but is willing to consider dropping his salary into the $2-3 million US range to stay with the Canucks.

...

Messier told The Sun he is having fun playing for the Canucks and, having been part of three losing seasons, wants to be around for the club's turnaround.

...

Owner John McCaw has instructed him to try keeping Messier, and money has been budgeted for a renegotiation of the 39- year-old's contract.

"We've always left room in there to try to keep Mark," assistant general manager and chief negotiator Dave Nonis said.

...
Canucks would use Messier $$$ to build roster: Vancouver general manager Brian Burke is still not convinced his captain won't return.: [Final Edition]
Pap, Elliott. The Vancouver Sun [Vancouver, B.C] 06 July 2000: F3.

Despite the fact his team has reported massive financial losses, Vancouver Canuck general manager Brian Burke said Wednesday he will not sit on the money saved if captain Mark Messier leaves the organization as a free agent.

The Canucks have offered Messier a new deal, believed to be for one year and somewhere between $2.5-$3 million US. Vancouver has already paid Messier a $2 million US buyout to escape the heavy $6 million US price tag on his option years. Messier is expected to land with the New York Rangers.

Ranger GM Glen Sather told a conference call in New York that he spoke twice to Doug Messier, Mark's father-agent, on Wednesday. They likely weren't talking about the weather.

"If Mess doesn't come back, we don't intend to put that money in the bank," Burke said at a gathering to showcase prize recruits Daniel and Henrik Sedin. "It will free up some money, not just for free agents but to trade for a more experienced player. But I don't think Mark Messier's departure is as imminent as some of you guys do. However, I wouldn't be surprised if he moves on. It's his call."

Burke, whose team lost $25 million Cdn last season, admitted that the free agent crop doesn't excite him and that he has not tendered an offer to anyone other than Messier.

"I look at the age of some of the players who are signing and I look at my team and I say `well, who would they take minutes away from?' " Burke explained. "If we sign Igor Larionov [39], who loses the minutes? I always come back to Harold Druken loses the minutes or Artem Chubarov loses the minutes or Josh Holden loses the minutes and it doesn't make sense to me. It really doesn't.

"So when I saw the list, I wasn't excited and I'm still not."

...
Messier leaves Canucks waiting: [Final Edition]
Pap, Elliott. The Vancouver Sun [Vancouver, B.C] 05 July 2000: F1 / FRONT.

After four days of NHL free agency, the Vancouver Canucks do not know where they stand in their attempts to re-sign captain Mark Messier.

Canuck general manager Brian Burke, back Tuesday from a fishing trip, admitted he has not heard a word from the Messier camp.

"No, I haven't heard from them but I don't expect a call until they're ready to go," Burke said. "Mark knows our level of interest. I won't be offended if they don't call with daily updates and I won't be offended if the next call I get is from them saying Mark is going to New York or Phoenix or where ever."

...
Rangers sign Messier, expected to make it official today: Two-year deal will give the veteran centre more money over that term than he has ever made.: [Final Edition]
MacIntyre, Iain. The Vancouver Sun [Vancouver, B.C] 13 July 2000: F1 / FRONT.

He has returned.

After weeks of speculation, the New York Rangers have re-signed Mark Messier, the Manhattan folk-hero who led his team to the 1994 Stanley Cup but bolted three years ago to the Vancouver Canucks for three lucrative, losing seasons. The Rangers are expected to make it official today.

And at age 39, with his most robust, productive years long passed, Messier will collect more money than in any of his previous 21 National Hockey League seasons.

Messier, who made $6 million (US) in each of his three seasons in Vancouver, will earn a minimum of $11 million to play for the Rangers the next two seasons.

Including the $2 million Messier pocketed last month when the Canucks bought out the final two years of a five-year contract, and an attainable bonus-clause of $1 million with the Rangers, the future Hall-of-Fame centre likely will gross $14 million for what are expected to be his final two seasons in the NHL.

The Canucks, who as a courtesy to Messier left a $3 million, one- year offer on the table even when it became apparent he was returning to the Rangers, now have to fill holes at first-line centre and in leadership.

...
Messier makes a promise: [Final Edition]
MacIntyre, Iain. Prince George Citizen [Prince George, B.C] 14 July 2000: 11.

NEW YORK -- On the day he wore a New York Ranger jersey for the first time in more than three years, Mark Messier promised what he was unable to deliver as a Vancouver Canuck during his exile from Manhattan: A playoff berth.

"I'll guarantee you we'll make the playoffs," Messier, 39, said Thursday during an emotion-packed New York press conference. "I don't think anybody will be disappointed in the next two years."

Later, in a conference call with Vancouver reporters, Messier conceded his biggest regret was failing to make the playoffs with the Canucks and leaving the National Hockey League club before having another chance to do so.

Messier, bought out of the remaining two years of his contract in Vancouver by general manager Brian Burke, rejected the Canucks' compromise offer of $3 million US for one season to sign a two-year deal with the Rangers worth a minimum of $11 million.

"I had a lot of time to think about it," Messier said. "If I didn't sign in New York, I would have been coming back to Vancouver. I'm very disappointed we weren't able to see it through.

...

"When I went to Vancouver, I felt it was the right thing to do in my heart," he said. "And it feels the same way leaving there."
Works Cited

MacIntyre, Iain. "Burke Likes Messier's Plan: The Canucks' Captain Said He would Like to Play here another Season, After Three Poor Years, to be Part of the Team's Turnaround." The Vancouver Sun: C2. Mar 18 2000. ProQuest. Web. 7 July 2015 .

MacIntyre, Iain. "Messier Makes a Promise." Prince George Citizen: 11. Jul 14 2000. ProQuest. Web. 7 July 2015 .

MacIntyre, Iain. "Rangers Sign Messier, Expected to make it Official Today: Two-Year Deal Will Give the Veteran Centre More Money Over that Term than He has Ever made." The Vancouver Sun: F1 / FRONT. Jul 13 2000. ProQuest. Web. 7 July 2015 .

"Messier, Burke Schedule Meeting." Prince George Citizen: 9. Feb 08 2000. ProQuest. Web. 7 July 2015 .

"Messier Warming to Idea of Staying with Canucks." Nanaimo Daily News: B3. Mar 20 2000. ProQuest. Web. 7 July 2015 .

Pap, Elliott. "Canucks would use Messier $$$ to Build Roster: Vancouver General Manager Brian Burke is Still Not Convinced His Captain Won't Return." The Vancouver Sun: F3. Jul 06 2000. ProQuest. Web. 7 July 2015 .

Pap, Elliott. "Messier Leaves Canucks Waiting." The Vancouver Sun: F1 / FRONT. Jul 05 2000. ProQuest. Web. 7 July 2015 .
The idea of staying with Vancouver at a reduced rate and "finishing the job" flew out the window as soon as the Rangers offered Messier a big bag of cash.

A dozen years later, however, the story still had not ended. Though Messier had by this time been long retired, news surfaced in 2012 that echoed the shady business practices of the McCaws and Messier's sense of entitlement from that era. The latter had included a clause in his contract that would allow him to profit from any increase in the franchise's value from 1997 to 2002. Of course, since the McCaws had, in 2004, sold their share of the team to the current owners, the Aquilinis, Messier went after the latter:

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Mark+Messier+wins+million+arbitration+case+against+Vancouver+Canucks/7033843/story.html
Mark Messier wins $6-million arbitration case against Vancouver Canucks
Hall of Fame centre awarded multimillion-dollar settlement
By Brad Ziemer, Vancouver Sun August 3, 2012

VANCOUVER - Mark Messier has been awarded a $6-million settlement in the Hall of Famer’s long-standing grievance over money he claimed he was owed by the Vancouver Canucks.

George Nicolau, an 87-year-old New York-based arbitrator with a long history of handling high-profile sports arbitration cases, rendered his decision recently after meeting with both sides earlier this year.

The Canucks made only a brief comment on the decision.

“Canucks Sports & Entertainment is aware of the arbitrator’s decision and will have no further comment on the matter,” the team said in a statement to The Vancouver Sun Thursday.

Messier did not return a message left for him with the New York Rangers, for whom he serves as special assistant to the president.

Messier signed a five-year, free-agent contract with the Canucks in 1997 for $6 million a season. The dispute between Messier and the team is believed to centre on deferred money the hockey player felt was owed to him.

It has been reported that Messier had a clause in his contract that would compensate him if the value of the Canuck franchise increased over the life of his contract, which expired in 2002.

After the way he destroyed the team, he now wanted money he felt he was owed. In truth, the team recorded its worst ever attendance at GM Place/Rogers Arena during the Messier years. Attendance in 1999-2000 averaged 14,641. The season after Messier was bought out, attendance rose to an average of 17,026 seats per game.

http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=8756

Average Yearly Attendance (GM Place, 1995-96 to 2001-02):

1995-96: 17,796
1996-97: 17,320
1997-98: 16,957
1998-99: 15,802
1999-00: 14,641
2000-01: 17,026
2001-02: 17,712

The team lost a significant amount of money during this period, which John McCaw himself had to cover for. The team, meanwhile, experienced the least amount of growth out of all Canadian markets between 1996 and 2002.

Low Canadian dollar blamed for more losses: [Final Edition]
David Baines, Sun Business Reporter. The Vancouver Sun [Vancouver, B.C] 12 Nov 1998: F1 / FRONT.

The Vancouver Canucks lost $36.6 million during the year ending June 30, raising the teams cumulative losses to $56.4 million, team owner Northwest Sports Enterprises Ltd. announced Tuesday.

...

Financial statements show the team's losses were once again financed by John McCaw, sole shareholder of Orca Bay Sports & Entertainment, which owns 86 per cent of Northwest Sports and 100 per cent of GM Place and the Grizzlies.

Last year, McCaw contributed $35 million to Northwest Sports in exchange for preferred shares, raising his total financial aid to the company over the past three years to $68 million.

...
Canucks' owner has to find more cash: Escalation in salaries: Year- end losses balloon to $33.6-million: [National Edition]
Schreiner, John. National Post [Don Mills, Ont] 12 Nov 1999: C5.

VANCOUVER - John McCaw, the Seattle billionaire who has poured $91.9-million into the Vancouver Canucks since buying the team five years ago, is going to have to come up with more cash to keep it afloat this season.

Northwest Sports Enterprises Ltd., the McCaw-controlled company that owns the team, yesterday reported a $33.6-million loss on revenue of $54.4-million for the year ended June 30, and warned "the company will incur another significant loss in fiscal 2000 due to the challenges of operating a National Hockey League franchise in Canada."

In its annual information form, the company said: "The losses arose primarily because of the continued escalation in players' salaries and unfavourable Canada/U.S. dollar exchange rates."

The losses at Northwest Sports have ballooned since 1995 when, on revenue of $40-million, the company lost $2.5-million. The Vancouver Canucks has become one of the most vociferous of the Canadian NHL teams that are asking for tax breaks or other government help to keep the Canadian teams viable.

...

The hockey franchise has contributed to its problems by missing the playoffs in each of the past three seasons and by not having a significant playoff run since 1994.

The ticket revenues in the year ended June 30 were $27.1- million, down from $32.6-million the year before.

The team has had some contribution from the rest of the league, including $4.6-million as its share of expansion proceeds -- new teams each pay $80-million (US) and that is divided among existing franchises.

Two new U.S. franchises will join the league next season.

The team also received $3.1-million from an NHL-operated program called the Canadian Currency Assistance Program. The NHL had a total of $8.4-million available under the program last season and four Canadian teams shared it.
Here is what the growth of the team's value looks like between 1993 and 2002.

1993: $61 million
FUZZY FINANCIAL PICTURE; NHL revenues grow despite recession; Part 1: [Final Edition]
MacGregor, Roy. Edmonton Journal [Edmonton, Alta] 18 Dec 1993: H3.

...

Using similar criteria, the magazine determined that the Vancouver Canucks are rising in value more quickly than any other hockey franchise - 35.4 per cent in the past year. The Canucks are now worth $61 million. The new arena they are building will increase their value even more.

...
1994: $69 million.
Most valuable franchise: NFL Cowboys; Expos are lowest- ranked baseball franchise, worth $75 million: [FINAL Edition]
The Gazette [Montreal, Que] 20 Apr 1994: D5.

...

The remaining Canadian-based NHL clubs were valued at: Toronto Maple Leafs, $77 million; Vancouver Canucks, $69 million; Calgary Flames and Ottawa Senators, $50 million; Edmonton Oilers, $46 million; Quebec Nordiques, $43 million; Winnipeg Jets, $35 million.

...
After the 1995-96 season: $91 million.
Sports franchise values skyrocketing Survey lists Toronto Blue Jays as leading Canadian club; Montreal Expos decline in value
Milner, Brian. The Globe and Mail [Toronto, Ont] 02 May 1996: C.13.

Among other Canadian-based teams, the Toronto Maple Leafs ranked 80th among all franchises - and seventh among hockey teams - with a value pegged at $96-million. The Vancouver Canucks came in 84th at $91-million and the Montreal Canadiens were 88th at $86-million. At the bottom end, Ottawa Senators ranked 103rd at $56-million, Calgary 104th at $54-million, and Edmonton Oilers at 109th at $42-million.

...
1998: $100 million
1999: $96 million
2002: $110 million
Cowboys' worth rated most in pro sports
The Globe and Mail [Toronto, Ont] 30 Nov 1998: S.8.

...

The Montreal Canadiens are seventh in the 27-team NHL at $167-million, Toronto Maple Leafs 11th ($119-million), Vancouver Canucks 19th ($100-million), Ottawa Senators 20th ($94-million), Calgary Flames 25th ($78-million) and Edmonton Oilers 26th ($67-million). The expansion Nashville Predators were not included in the list.

...
Senators rank low on Forbes' value list: Financial survey of NHL franchises shows Ottawa team overtaxed, Bryden says: [Final Edition 1]
Warren, Ken. The Ottawa Citizen [Ottawa, Ont] 30 Nov 1999: C1 / FRONT.

...

The Canadiens are considered the most valuable Canadian franchise, sixth overall, at $175 million U.S.

The Toronto Maple Leafs are rated ninth ($151 million), the Vancouver Canucks 21st ($96 million), the Calgary Flames 25th ($78 million) and the Edmonton Oilers 26th ($72 million).

...
Canucks etc.: [Final Edition]
Kuzma, Ben. The Province [Vancouver, B.C] 09 Dec 2002: A31.

According to Forbes magazine, the Canucks are worth more than Edmonton, Buffalo, Calgary and Ottawa.

The Canucks estimated worth is $110 million US while the Senators are worth $95 million, the Flames $94 million, the Sabres $92 million and the Oilers $86 million.

Toronto is the most profitable NHL franchise with an operating profit of $24.2 million US on revenue of $112 million. Washington had the biggest operating loss, $25.4 million on revenue of $61 million. St. Louis was next with an $18-million operating loss on revenue of $70 million.

Detroit is worth $266 million, an increase of 18 per cent over last year. The Rangers, who missed the playoffs, dropped five per cent to second at $263 million.

Toronto is the most valuable Canadian franchise, ranked No. 7 with a value of $241 million. Montreal is ranked No. 10, worth $187 million.

...
Overall, the value of the team increased by about $21 million from 1996 ($91 million) to 2002 ($110 million). That said, John McCaw poured a ton of money into the team to keep it afloat.

Let's look at the growth of the other Canadian markets during this period. The Leafs jumped up from $96 million to $241 million between 1996 and 2002, while the Habs grew from $86 million to $187 million. The Oilers' value doubles from $42 million to $86 million. The Flames' value increased from $54 million to $94 million. The Senators increased from $56 million to $95 million. In fact, the Canucks experienced the least amount of growth out of any of the Canadian markets during this period.

As of 2014, the Canucks are valued at $800 million. The team was purchased in 2005 at a price of $205 million.

http://www.forbes.com/teams/vancouver-canucks/

Messier was awarded $6 million because of a small growth in the franchise's value that, for the most part, happened after he left town (since he did not play in Vancouver between 2000 and 2002) and that really, in the grand scheme of things, is quite insignificant.
Works Cited

Baines, David. "Low Canadian Dollar Blamed for More Losses." The Vancouver Sun: F1 / FRONT. Nov 12 1998. ProQuest. Web. 7 July 2015 .

"Cowboys' Worth Rated most in Pro Sports." The Globe and MailNov 30 1998. ProQuest. Web. 7 July 2015 .

Kuzma, Ben. "Canucks etc." The Province: A31. Dec 09 2002. ProQuest. Web. 7 July 2015 .

MacGregor, Roy. "FUZZY FINANCIAL PICTURE; NHL Revenues Grow Despite Recession; Part 1." Edmonton Journal: H3. Dec 18 1993. ProQuest. Web. 7 July 2015 .

"Most Valuable Franchise: NFL Cowboys; Expos are Lowest- Ranked Baseball Franchise, Worth $75 Million." The Gazette: D5. Apr 20 1994. ProQuest. Web. 7 July 2015 .

Schreiner, John. "Canucks' Owner has to Find More Cash: Escalation in Salaries: Year- End Losses Balloon to $33.6-Million." National Post: C5. Nov 12 1999. ProQuest. Web. 7 July 2015 .

Warren, Ken. "Senators Rank Low on Forbes' Value List: Financial Survey of NHL Franchises shows Ottawa Team Overtaxed, Bryden Says." The Ottawa Citizen: C1 / FRONT. Nov 30 1999. ProQuest. Web. 7 July 2015 .
Without a doubt, Mark Messier was the face of evil for Canucks fans throughout the 1990s. Along with his role in the destruction of the team with his former Rangers bench boss in the latter half of that decade, Messier's greed continues to carry into the business of the Canucks organization. Prior to any of these events, he was responsible for ending the Canucks' hopes of a Stanley Cup in 1994 and injuring Linden in the Finals. From 1997 to 2000, he and Keenan forced Linden out and ruined the team from internally.

Perhaps the most encapsulating moment of the relationship between Canucks fans, Trevor Linden, and Mark Messier is from the dying seconds of Game 6 of the 1994 Stanley Cup Finals. It was Messier who was responsible for taking a cheap shot at Linden while he was already down injured, injuring him even further, away from the play in the final seconds of the game in Vancouver. You can see it all in the video below at the bottom of the screen. Linden was left broken physically, but pieced himself together for the mightiest performance of his career. The moment spawned one of the most memorable quotations in franchise history: "he will play, you know he'll play."



Despite a broken nose, broken ribs and torn rib cartilage, and now this injury, Linden rallied back with two goals in Game 7 to bring the Canucks within one goal of tying the game. Contrasted with Messier, Linden was the heart and soul of the Vancouver Canucks. The team had faced Messier in 1994 when the latter took liberties with his dirty play. By 1998, the team's leader had been displaced by a heartless, disinterested egomaniac, the same man who had robbed them of a championship and who now would impose his destructive influence on the team.

Canucks fans have every reason to despise Mark Messier. The Mark Messier years in Vancouver were an absolute disaster, and fans have every reason to despise him, Mike Keenan, and John McCaw. Messier was overpaid, created distraction after distraction, controlled the dressing room and his own fate with a sense of entitlement, disrespected long-time players, traditions, and members of the community, and played as lazily as one could imagine as the team's supposed leader, leading them only towards the bottom of the NHL standings. He destroyed the Canucks' hopes in 1994 and injured the captain, then played a role in Linden's removal and mutilated the team from within. If there was any one individual who could be identified as this franchise's greatest evil in the 1990s, it would be him.

To summarize the situation with regards to Messier and Keenan's time in Vancouver:

The moves that Keenan made, aside from the Linden trade, were not helpful; the behavior and statements of Keenan, in addition to his clash with Brian Burke, demonstrate that he wanted nothing more than to swap out players for those who he felt could bring immediate success to the team, sometimes at below value. Again, why was Jyrki Lumme allowed to become a UFA without any return in a trade? Keenan felt he could make a playoff push. This is the definition of poor management.

Keenan's sights were set on winning. Post #257 examines this:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=105025611&postcount=257

Peter Zezel, 32 years old at the time, spent the first half of the year in the AHL. The Canucks lost a second round pick for an aging player. Zezel was finished.
Would it have been awesome if Todd Bertuzzi and Sean Burke had performed at the level in 1998 that they would go on to become in 2002? Absolutely.
The Sean Burke deal ended up becoming nothing because he only played 16 games and went 2-9-4 before being shipped to Philadelphia two months later for Garth Snow. Geoff Sanderson, a player with a similar career to Martin Gelinas', was traded after 9 games for Brad May -- literally two weeks into his time with the Canucks. Keenan did say he was impatient. You can't give credit to a GM who trades for a player and then trades him away a handful of games later. You don't just flip Sean Burke after just over a dozen games for Garth Snow. That's not rebuilding; that's trying to win right away, being upset that there are no immediate results, and then trying again to achieve immediate results. In the process he's yelling at players, smashing sticks and embarrassing individuals in front of their teammates all while Messier, who said he would protect the players, takes the coach's side; rumors are planted so that players feel more vulnerable and become more likely to listen to him. Messier is, meanwhile, immune to criticism from the coach and plays a lazy game while touting himself as the person who will bring order to the roster. He communicates with Keenan and plays a role in these trades that are meant to give Keenan more authority through the breaking up of the core; this doesn't work because at the end of the season the whole team is still angry at Keenan. It's a ridiculous way of operating the team.

Two months later, the deal had essentially become:

Martin Gelinas and Kirk McLean for Brad May, Garth Snow, Enrico Cicone and Buffalo's 3rd round pick in 1999.

That's a terrible return, especially since Gelinas was only 27 at the time and eventually rebounded. In the two seasons prior to 1997-98, he had back-to-back 30-goal campaigns and 35 goals in 1996-97.

Keenan wanted to win and when he saw that the new acquisitions weren't doing well he flipped them right away.

Besides that move, here are the others. The only deal that isn't below average is the Linden trade. Linden's trade value the previous season was quite high, as in fact there were rumors of him potentially being traded to Boston for Adam Oates in 1996-97. Keenan's Linden trade worked out but, at the time, was far less in terms of value than what Linden was worth at the time, which some articles have alluded to.
To Philadelphia: Mike Sillinger
To Vancouver: 5th round pick in 1998 Draft (Garret Prosofsky)

To Vancouver: Peter Zezel
To New Jersey: 2nd round pick in 1998 (Anton But)

To Islanders: Trevor Linden
To Vancouver: Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan McCabe, and a 3rd round pick in 1998 (Jarko Ruutu)

March 1998: To Boston: Grant Ledyard
To Vancouver: 8th round pick in 1998 (Curtis Valentine)

To Toronto: Lonny Bohonos
To Vancouver: Brandon Convery

To Islanders: Gino Odjick
To Canucks: Jason Strudwick

To Philly: Dave Babych
To Vancouver: 5th round pick in 1998 (Justin Morrison)

To Vancouver: Garth Snow, Enrico Ciccone, Brad May, 3rd round pick in 1999 (Buffalo)
To Carolina/Philadelphia: Kirk McLean, Martin Gelinas

Everyone wants their rebuild to last one week so that the fans don't lose hope and everyone wins championships, but it doesn't always work that way. Let's not minimize how great some of those moves were for the team just because Zezel didn't pan out and Todd Bertuzzi didn't peak the day after New York was fleeced.
I believe Keenan was hoping for a "one-week" retool. The articles document his desire to win and the harsh abuse that the players endured. As mentioned, even Brian Noonan, who won the Stanley Cup with Keenan in 1994 and was a part of three of his previous teams, was sick of Keenan.

The team may have certainly declined, sure, but what Keenan and Messier did was cause a ****storm and alienate everybody, making promises and then accomplishing the exact opposite, portraying themselves as those who would fix problems when they in fact turned themselves into a bigger problem than the Canucks had previously had. Their antics and behavior were a significant part of the problem. They went in there promising to extinguish the fire but instead poured gasoline all over it and made the problem worse. The product was different but not better in 1997-98, and the whole year played out as a gong show. The team faced financial difficulty and the fans lost trust in the organization. The entire ordeal was embarrassing and disrespectful to the fans, to the players, and to the whole organization. People were actually ready to welcome Messier at the start of the season but by the end there were only boos to be heard.

Keenan was the first to go. Burke definitely did not want to keep him around.
And also don't pretend that the whole outside fans just don't understand argument is going to fly when there is a split in opinion on Mark Messier's performance between an emotional fan-base who loved the 1994 Canucks a little too much and the new management who wanted Messier back in 2000-01. They're not fans from New York and Edmonton; they ARE the Vancouver Canucks, and they wanted Mark Messier at $4 million.
With Keenan in control, Messier took liberties with the team. Burke, as I mentioned earlier, believed in having a familiar voice continue to guide the young core that he, for the most part, assembled. This is why he wanted to re-sign Messier at a lower price (aka keep him at a reduced price). The other option, as Burke mentioned, was to bring in Igor Larionov, but that would not have made as much sense since he would have been a new voice to that group.

Whereas Mike Keenan might have traded away Markus Naslund, Burke refused to.

After a few years in other markets, Burke brought back Linden to be the team's veteran voice. Keeping Messier was about maintaining consistency within the dressing room after it had been stabilized by Crawford and Burke.

Keenan tried to create a new culture that just happened to be worse than whatever the Canucks had previously. Messier was complicit and took Keenan's side; whenever Mike had a fit, it was always the player's fault... until Keenan admitted his mistakes the following year. That admission by Keenan of his mistakes in October 1998 while still the Canucks' coach says everything that needs to be said about his reactionary decisions and lack of long-term direction with the team. It was not about rebuilding for Mike; it was about winning. Burke didn't see eye-to-eye with Keenan at all; their philosophies clashed. Burke rescued the team from what might have been the continuation of Keenan's failed attempt(s) to retool on the fly, shock players and achieve immediate results.

If Keenan had become the team's general manager in 1998, there likely would have been very little stability for the team for quite some time longer. Keenan always had issues with maintaining relationships, and his mantra was always to win. McCaw's smartest decision was to hire Burke and give the organization room to breathe and rebuild.

This is not about having "too much affection" for the 1994 squad. People were angry because of terrible management, lies and hypocrisy. The 1997-98 season is when most of the damage was done. In the second and third seasons, Messier's issues were only limited to his emotionless on-ice performances and his broken relationship with fans, which affected ticket sales and reduced the team's popularity. People are angry about the period in which Messier and Keenan embarrassed the organization -- not even for the sake of future success but for a "one week rebuild;" it's about the creation of a toxic culture and the hypocrisy of Messier who got a free pass for his lazy, uninspired play and excuses, and yet who talked about reforming the roster. The 1998-99 and 1999-00 seasons were the aftereffect of the 1997-98 season. Messier continued to play poorly, being detrimental to the on-ice product, and yet Burke built a foundation with smart free agent signings and some good drafting. Off the ice, Messier was limited to doing the only thing he was expected to do -- motivate the players under the watchful eye of Marc Crawford. Under Mike Keenan, Messier was no off-ice motivator but was instead an intrusive presence who did not try to mediate or protect players when Keenan lashed out at them irrationally; he was someone who complained about various factors that were hurting his game, and he tried to have a managerial presence, often leading to him siding against his teammates.

Burke told Messier to just play and stop voicing his opinion to management about various issues or making excuses for his own performance (ice issues, travel, etc). From that point on, he just worked with whatever Burke gave him. Burke was able to control Messier's ego. Consistency within the leadership group, as mentioned earlier (but apparently ignored), is the reason for Burke wanting to re-sign Messier, with Burke having been successful at having the player only be a player.

Of course, seeing as there were so many negatives about Messier's time with the Canucks and only one redeeming factor (which was to be a motivational speaker), he failed to be a positive contributor to the organization. Overall, he was a big failure in Vancouver, one who in Year One was an absolutely awful presence in every aspect and who in Years Two and Three was a big on-ice dud. 1997-98 was his greatest offence amidst three years of supreme disappointment.

*UPDATE* April 4th, 2013:

Here's more evidence:

Gino Odjick, one of the NHL's great enforcers and a long-time member of the Vancouver Canucks, was asked about this in interview Dan Russell of CKNW 980 this past Thursday (April 4th, 2013). Odjick had been very outspoken at the time of Messier's arrival about how vile the latter's presence was to the team. His view has not changed. The full interview is a half-hour long, part of Russell's series about the hockey journey of NHL players from youth to retirement. I've posted the segment in which Gino discusses his time with the Canucks, his fights, and his friendships.

Inevitably, the issue of Mark Messier and Mike Keenan was brought up, and Gino was clear to state he believes Messier and Keenan destroyed the dressing room. Nobody on the team was comfortable with how Keenan and Messier imposed their authority on the organization:

13:00:



*UPDATE* April 9th, 2013:

More on Mike Keenan, this time from Markus Naslund circa 2003. A Swedish article was posted with comments from Markus; many discussed it in this thread:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=13842

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=232856&postcount=7
Riddarn said:
Well he basicly just says that Keenan is an @sshole..

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=233020&postcount=9
Heimy said:
I remember reading awhile back that Keenan almost dealt Naslund for next to nothing and was only prevented by an injury. Would someone that recalls the details of that story please re-post it?

Thanks


btw, Mrs. Heimy and I spent some time in beautiful Vancouver over the summer and fell in love with the place.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=233101&postcount=10
Peter Griffin said:
Heimy said:
I remember reading awhile back that Keenan almost dealt Naslund for next to nothing and was only prevented by an injury. Would someone that recalls the details of that story please re-post it?
He was almost dealt to the Sens for a mid-round pick, but Todd Bertuzzi got injured and the Canucks had to keep Naslund because they didn't have enough forwards.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=233149&postcount=11
Mr. Canucklehead said:
^4th Round Draft Pick, to be precise. We would have looked as foolish as Pittsburgh. The deal was all but done when Todd Bertuzzi took an Adrian Aucoin slapshot to the leg and was done for the season. Naslund was kept around due to a shortage of NHL ready wingers on the Canucks team.

It would have been a typical Keenan thing to do.

~Canucklehead~

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=233162&postcount=12
Freudian said:
Rough translation:

He is the coach that scares his players, that sends talents to the farm team just to ***** with them. And that hates swedes.
"Mike Keenan likes to scare guys and humiliate them just to elevate himself" Markus Näslund has to say about the most feared coach in the NHL.

Näslund is not known as a loud mouth who says negative things about others but there is one person he can't stand. Mike Keenan. Iron Mike. "He used to go after us younger and less established players and after a while I was sick of it" Markus says.

Mike Keenan had his breakthrough when he in less than a year turned Rangers from a loserteam to SC-champions 1994. From then he has wandered from team to team and scaring players but not won any more titles.

Keenan - now in Florida - is infamous for his rock hard work methods, that often turns into pure personal attacks on the players. Brutal coaching. Or Management by fear. "If you grew up in Sweden with the security we have here it is totally different having Keenan as coach" Näslund says.

The list of swedish players that has had problems with Keenan is long.

Keenan and Näslund immediately was on a collision course when Iron-Mike arrived in Vancouver. The 98-99 season the swedish goalgetter started in the press box. Sent there by Keenan. He just wanted tough players. "It was a very hard period. Luckily for me players got injured and I got the chance. That turned things around for me and I am glad I was able to get through it" Näslund says with a sigh.

Despite the fact that it was under Keenan Näslund got his breakthrough he is still bitter. "His ways really got to me. A person that has to degrade others is a small person" Näslund says.

It's fortunate McCaw fired Keenan partway through the 1998-99 season, in time before Markus was traded away. At that time, Naslund's confidence was not very high, and had Keenan remained it could have had adverse effects on Markus and the entire franchise. Without Naslund, the Canucks might not have climbed back out from their bottom-dwelling status of the Messier era. Attendance continually declined from 1997-98 to 1999-2000, dropping from an average of 17,320 in 1996-97 to 14,641 in 1999-2000. Markus had a 41-goal season the year after Messier left and was named the team's new captain. Attendance jumped back up to an average of 17,712 again.

http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=8756

*UPDATE* November 7, 2014:

We have confirmation that the descriptions of Messier's conduct in this thread are factual. We have a key voice confirming that all of these things took place.

Pat Quinn confirms Mark Messier was involved with the team's management in 1997-98. Quinn was the Canucks' general manager in 1997, and he, of all people, would have witnessed Messier's conduct first-hand. He was at the very center of the situation.

http://search.proquest.com/docview/384630778
Turning over Leafs with quintessential coach FEATURING: Pat Quinn / Toronto boss Ken Dryden was always preaching newness, then he turned to the stogie-smoking, meat-eating embodiment of old-time hockey.
Gare, Joyce. The Globe and Mail [Toronto, Ont] 04 July 1998: A.15.

...

Quinn had been pushed by ownership, or, more precisely, the owner's minions, to fire coach Tom Renney. Not a few general managers would have given the coach a pink slip simply out of self-preservation -- the "better him than me" plan. Quinn didn't, because he understood that a coaching switch would provide only cosmetic changes, nothing substantial.

"I wouldn't fire the coach," Quinn said. "To have done that would have gone against my better judgment. A lot of things we did in Vancouver I'd second-guess. No problem with that. But increasingly, a lot of decisions were being made that were based on things other than that [my better judgment]."

..

No firing: This would be one time when Quinn tried to impose his better judgment on the direction of the team. The last time, as it turned out.

In a few hours, before the Canucks' next game, in Washington, Quinn would be made aware that his time with the club, not Renney's, was at an end. There was immense disappointment, Quinn would later admit, but also a sense of relief.

...

If there was any doubt about that point, it was clarified when Orca Bay only notionally replaced him for the remainder of the season with Steve Tambellini and Steve Bellringer. Tambellini was a former public-relations flack and Bellringer had but two months of experience as a John McCaw underling.

This wasn't the end of hockey's descent into hell occupied by corporate devils' apprentices. It was just the point where Quinn was pushed off.

...

"There were mixed messages . . . an unmanageable situation really," Quinn said. "In the summer of 1996, ownership was pushing me to cut the payroll. Then the push came to sign Wayne Gretzky. When we weren't able to sign Wayne that summer, [Orca Bay] thought that we needed a name. That meant the next summer the push was to sign Mark Messier."

Messier was supposed to fill a leadership void -- at least that's the way it was imagined by marketing types who had only ever ventured into the Canucks' room for autographs. Messier, in fact, created a leadership void, a space previously occupied by the general manager.

"Messier was consulted by ownership on personnel decisions," Quinn said. "When that happens, it's deadly."

It was a long way from a ticket to Tulsa. Messier's word, not Quinn's, was final. How could Renney coach or Quinn manage a team whose captain had the owner's ear? They couldn't. Soon enough, they weren't.

...
"Pavel Bure: The Riddle of the Russian Rocket said:
The Canucks only won one of their next 12 games and players continued to anonymously leak details about angry confrontations between Keenan and his players. On January 30, in a long article in the Vancouver Sun, Gary Mason revealed more details of discord, describing an incident in which Donald Brashear challenged his coach to duke it out on the bench, and a heated verbal exchange between Odjick and Keenan that was sparked when Keenan sarcastically described Odjick as "one of Pat Quinn's boys."

The revelations didn't sit well with Messier, who kept tabs on what the press was saying by having clippings delivered to him daily. Messier sounded off in an interview with Mason, calling the leaks "completely gutless." He disputed that Keenan's tongue-lashing of Linden in St. Louis was extreme. "Sure, it's tough, but you have to be able to accept criticism and accept the truth." He also denied, as some believed, that he was a GM disguised as a captain. "My allegiance has always been toward the players. I have nothing to do with player personnel on this team or who's going where."

Messier's comments rang hollow. Rather than defend his teammates, he had been silent when Keenan began his verbal assaults, and contrary to his claim of noninvolvement in personnel decisions, Messier actually had considerable input on player moves. As early as training camp, he had talked to Renney about players he felt were of no value to the team. As Quinn told Toronto's Globe and Mail in 1998, "Messier was consulted by ownership on personnel decisions. When that happens it's deadly."

In fact, the entire episode was filled with duplicity, as Keenan himself, rather than his players, had actually been the source of some of the leaks. It appeared Keenan was actually attempting to foster a sense of paranoia and mistrust in order to increase his control. The tactic worked. Alarmed by the dissension, Orca Bay gave Keenan a promotion in late January that gave him the power to make trades. He had become the de facto GM.
With regards to Wayne Maki's #11:
Maki clan seeing red
BYLINE: ELLIOTT PAP; VANCOUVER SUN
SECTION: SPORTS; Pg. E1 / Front
LENGTH: 307 words
The Vancouver Sun (British Columbia)
July 29, 1997, Tuesday, FINAL EDITION

The widow and son of the late Wayne Maki are furious that the Vancouver Canucks have issued jersey No. 11 to Mark Messier.

...

"I spoke to Pat Quinn after the press conference and he apologized and told me he never lost respect for my father," said Wayne Maki Jr., 25. "They said they had tried to get a hold of us but obviously they didn't try hard enough to get our blessing, which they don't have."

The junior Maki said he was told by Quinn that a clause in Messier's contract included him receiving the No. 11.

"Pat Quinn basically said there was nothing he could do about it now," concluded a bitter Maki.
More: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=62431013&postcount=6
 
Last edited by a moderator:

SillyRabbit

Trix Are For Kids
Jan 3, 2006
7,404
6,146
This is why I never bought the whole "greatest leader ever" argument.

He was an absolute cancer for Vancouver, with an ego the size of the moon.

Everyone likes to talk about his game 6 "guarantee" against New Jersey, but everyone seems to forget that in the 1999-2000 season, with 7 games remaining, Messier publicly guaranteed that the Canucks would make the playoffs. They missed by 4 points.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
3,201
Pretty much covers it & then some... tbh, hadnt been a Messier fan at any point in his career, from Indianapolis through Edmonton, New York, certainly not here in Vancouver. Foolish move by Quinn, exacerbating matters with Keenan...
 

Megahab

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
7,162
1,258
Toronto
The story begins in the 1997 off-season when the Canucks were in search of a top-line center. Pat Quinn, the Canucks' general manager at the time, had apparently targeted Wayne Gretzky as his free agent of choice.

Wasn't Gretzky still under contract with the Rangers at this time?
 

JA

Guest
Below is information regarding the situation with Wayne Maki's #11 when Mark Messier was signed by the Canucks. Some have attempted to defend Messier's decision to wear #11 by saying that he was unaware of the situation, that the Maki family gave him their blessing, or that Messier would have changed his number if not for the team's assurance that he was allowed to wear it.

This should end all speculation.

Messier had a clause in his contract that forced the team to give him #11. Legally, the Vancouver Canucks were not allowed to deny him that number. This led to the embarrassing and disgraceful problem of trying to find a compromise that would ease the minds of the Maki family and appease Mark Messier.
Maki clan seeing red
BYLINE: ELLIOTT PAP; VANCOUVER SUN
SECTION: SPORTS; Pg. E1 / Front
LENGTH: 307 words
The Vancouver Sun (British Columbia)
July 29, 1997, Tuesday, FINAL EDITION

The widow and son of the late Wayne Maki are furious that the Vancouver Canucks have issued jersey No. 11 to Mark Messier.

Beverly Maki, whose husband died of cancer 23 years ago, said she was told by former general manager Hal Laycoe the number was retired and would only be worn again by either Maki's son or grandson.

Beverly Maki said she was heartbroken when she saw Messier display No. 11 at the press conference Monday to announce his signing with the Canucks. She said she was not informed the number was being re-issued.

"I was watching the 12 o'clock news and I was really shocked when Mark Messier turned around and was wearing Wayne's number," she said." Wayne's mother then phoned me from Sault Ste. Marie and she was really upset, too. I always felt the number was retired and nobody from the Canucks phoned me to ask our permission."

Beverly Maki, who lives in North Vancouver, said she phoned the Canucks repeatedly Monday afternoon and finally received a return call from GM Pat Quinn.

"He said I should be honored and I told him 'I'm not honored'," said Beverly Maki. "Messier can wear No. 111 if he wants. I guess this is the way it's going to be but I'm just hurt the way it happened."

According to the Canucks, No. 11 has never been retired but was merely taken out of circulation out of respect for Maki.

"I spoke to Pat Quinn after the press conference and he apologized and told me he never lost respect for my father," said Wayne Maki Jr., 25. "They said they had tried to get a hold of us but obviously they didn't try hard enough to get our blessing, which they don't have."

The junior Maki said he was told by Quinn that a clause in Messier's contract included him receiving the No. 11.

"Pat Quinn basically said there was nothing he could do about it now," concluded a bitter Maki.
USA Today reported this as well:
Arbitrator denies Devils' Dunham in free-agency case
BYLINE: Kevin Allen
SECTION: SPORTS; Pg. 14C
LENGTH: 514 words
USA TODAY
July 30, 1997, Wednesday, FINAL EDITION

...

No. 11 discord: Messier's desire to continue to wear No. 11 has created controversy in Vancouver.

Even though the number isn't officially retired, it hasn't been worn in 23 years out of respect to the last No. 11, Wayne Maki, who died of brain cancer.

Messier put a clause in his contract that guarantees him No. 11. The Canucks had hoped to discuss the issue with members of the Maki family but didn't reach them before it became public.

Maki's widow, Beverly, isn't pleased, claiming former Canucks general manager Hal Laycoe promised her No. 11 would not be worn by anyone other than Maki's son or grandson.
The news rippled across the continent and was also published in newspapers in New York, Toronto, and elsewhere.
A MARK OF CONTROVERSY
MAKI'S WIDOW, SON PEEVED OVER NO. 11

BYLINE: By JOHN DELLAPINA With FRANK BROWN
SECTION: Sports; Pg. 54
LENGTH: 532 words
Daily News (New York)
July 30, 1997, Wednesday

It didn't take long for Mark Messier to get a harsh reminder that he's not in New York anymore.

After six years of playing for an organization and general manager who are meticulous to the point of obsession with treating their current players and alumni in a first-class manner while protecting the franchise's tradition, Messier instantly became embroiled in a Canucks' faux pas on his first day in Vancouver.

Contrary to earlier indications, the Canucks never received the blessings of the widow and son of the late Wayne Maki to bestow his No. 11 upon Messier. The number, though never officially retired, was taken out of circluation when Maki died of a brain tumor 23 years ago. And, at the time, then-Canucks GM Hal Laycoe promised Beverly Maki the number would be retired and only worn either by Maki's son or grandson.

Stunned to see a No. 11 on the Canucks jersey that Messier donned for Monday afternoon's introductory press conference, Beverly Maki called the Vancouver Sun to express her outrage.

"I was watching the 12 o'clock news (Monday afternoon) and I was really shocked when Mark Messier turned around and was wearing Wayne's number," Mrs. Maki told the Sun.

She said she repeatedly telephoned the Canucks following the press conference and finally received a return call from GM Pat Quinn.

"He said I should be honored and I told him I'm not honored," Mrs. Maki said. "Messier can wear No. 111 if he wants. I guess this is the way it's going to be, but I'm hurt."

So is Wayne Maki Jr.

"I spoke to Pat Quinn after the press conference and he apologized and told me he never lost respect for my father," said Maki. "They said they had tried to get ahold of us. But, obviously, they didn't try hard enough to get our blessing, which they don't have."

That marked quite a contrast from Messier's first few days as a Ranger.

...
Canucks look rich and confused: [Final Edition]
By Damien Cox Toronto Star. Toronto Star; Toronto, Ont. [Toronto, Ont] 28 Aug 1997: D.9.

...

* The splash of the Messier signing was muffled somewhat by the callous manner in which the club gave No. 11 to the former Ranger captain, a jersey number that had been unofficially retired by the club for almost a quarter-century in honor of former Canuck Wayne Maki.

Maki died of cancer in 1974, and his family wasn't asked for permission to put his number back in circulation.

``They said they tried to get a hold of us, but obviously they didn't try very hard to get our blessing, which they don't have,'' said Maki's son, Wayne Jr.

...
Messier chooses Vancouver
BYLINE: Al Strachan
SECTION: SECTION 3, SPORTS; Pg. 55, National Hockey League
LENGTH: 575 words
The Financial Post (Toronto, Canada)
July 29, 1997, Tuesday, DAILY: TORONTO; VANCOUVER EDITION

...

After spending Sunday night in hiding from the media in San Francisco, Messier was in Vancouver yesterday to appear at a press conference and pose for pictures wearing his familiar No. 11.

Only one Vancouver player has ever worn that number, the late Wayne Maki, and although it was never retired, there had been an understanding it would not be used.

...
On the day that he was signed, every article published about his signing mentioned the Maki family. The news was even published across the country in the Toronto Star prior to the season.
JIM TAYLOR - ORCA BOY - Canucks empty moneybags to sign Messier
Taylor, Jim. Times - Colonist; Victoria, B.C. [Victoria, B.C] 29 July 1997: 1.

...

"When Pat and [Orca Bay Sports and Entertainment president] John Chapple came to Hilton Head, it was like we clicked," Messier said of a visit to his South Carolina home. "Their enthusiasm, their energy, their ideas, the direction they wanted to go - everything seemed to fit.

...

First, the 11 on the jersey - a number formerly worn by Canuck Wayne Maki, who died in 1976 and, though not officially retired, never used by the Canucks again until now.

...

Canuckleheads no more; Messier signs with Vancouver; BACK IN CANADA: [FINAL Edition]
Haysom, Ian. Edmonton Journal; Edmonton, Alta. [Edmonton, Alta] 29 July 1997: D.1.

Mark Messier pulled a Vancouver Canucks jersey over his expensive designer shirt Monday, gave a wide grin, lifted his arms aloft and said he was excited to be ``back in Canada, back home.''

Messier, 36, signed a three-year deal with the Vancouver Canucks for what sources say is $18 million US over the life of the contract.

He said he expected to finish his career in Vancouver.

...

Messier will wear his famous No. 11 as a Canuck.

The number hasn't been worn in Vancouver since forward Wayne Maki died of cancer following the 1972-73 season.


...
Messier signing said done: If so, can Renney survive if Mess asks for Keenan?: [Final Edition]
Gallagher, Tony. The Province; Vancouver, B.C. [Vancouver, B.C] 28 July 1997: A38.

Late Sunday night there was every indication the Vancouver Canucks will today announce the signing of Mark Messier after the free agent centre's meeting with the Orca Bay troop Saturday in Seattle.

...

Assuming the announcement is made, the Canucks must decide whether Trevor Linden will remain captain and whether Messier will wear No. 11 given that number was reserved for the late Wayne Maki although never formally retired.

...
This saga stretched into the start of the season, when Messier himself spoke about it.
Maki jersey status unresolved: [Final Edition]
Pap, Elliott. The Vancouver Sun; Vancouver, B.C. [Vancouver, B.C] 17 Oct 1997: C1 FRONT.

The widow of Wayne Maki, the Vancouver Canuck winger who died of brain cancer 23 years ago, is still upset that the Canucks refuse to acknowledge her husband's No. 11 jersey was retired following his death.

The number is currently being worn by new Vancouver captain Mark Messier. Canuck management contends the number was never officially retired, but merely taken out of circulation, before being issued to Messier on July 28.

Beverly Maki, through her lawyer George Majic, has written Canuck president Pat Quinn three times and forwarded documentation to his office, offering proof that No. 11 was in fact retired following the 1973-74 season. As well, there has been a number of telephone conversations between parties representing both sides. Not satisifed with the Canuck responses, Beverly Maki opted to go public this week.

...

In her most recent conversation with Quinn one week ago, Beverly Maki said she was told the Canucks "wouldn't do anything because the number was never retired."

Among the documentation Majic sent Quinn was a Vancouver Sun article that appeared on May 18, 1974, six days following Maki's death, in which the Canucks reportedly "announced they will retire the late Wayne Maki's sweater from the National Hockey League . . . . the Canucks will make a presentation of the sweater to the Maki family."

Majic's correspondence also included a picture from the B.C. Sports Hall of Fame showing a display of Maki's sweater with the inscription: "This jersey was worn by Wayne Maki, #11, during the season of 1972-73. The number is now retired."

As well, one-time Canuck captain Chris Oddleifson briefly wore No. 11 following his February 1974 trade to the Canucks from Boston. Maki died that spring and the next season, Oddleifson was issued No. 14.

"When I came over in the [Bob] Schmautz trade, I wore No. 11 for the remainder of the season but when I came to training camp in the fall, I was told the No. 11 was retired because of Wayne's death," Oddleison said Thursday. "The Canuck argument is that jerseys are retired because of service. Mrs. Maki is not looking for an ounce of money. She's appealing to the Canucks on a humanitarian stance, not a legal one. She is offering a win-win situation."

Messier, told Thursday of the family's emotional reaction to the issue, said he would be more than happy to meet the Makis.

"Yes, I'm aware No. 11 was worn by Mr. Maki and I have offered to do numerous things," Messier said. "I've had numerous talks with Pat and he assured me not to worry about it, he was taking care of it. We even talked about doing some kind of ceremony."


...
He would have done a variety of things, except switch to a different number.

An example of a re-print in a different major newspaper:
Jersey flap hits Canucks: Maki's widow says NHL team ignores promise
BYLINE: ELLIOT PAP; THE VANCOUVER SUN
SECTION: SPORTS; Pg. G3
DATELINE: VANCOUVER
The Ottawa Citizen
October 18, 1997, Saturday, EARLY EDITION

...
The inclusion of a clause in his contract to wear #11, and his refusal to change his number in spite of his knowledge of the Maki family's plight, is proof enough that he put consciously himself ahead of others in this situation. The responsibility of switching away from #11 was entirely Messier's as soon as he signed that contract. He did not.

He handcuffed Quinn, who legally was not able to deny Messier #11:
"I spoke to Pat Quinn after the press conference and he apologized and told me he never lost respect for my father," said Wayne Maki Jr., 25. "They said they had tried to get a hold of us but obviously they didn't try hard enough to get our blessing, which they don't have."

The junior Maki said he was told by Quinn that a clause in Messier's contract included him receiving the No. 11.

"Pat Quinn basically said there was nothing he could do about it now," concluded a bitter Maki.
This clause is proof that Mark Messier cared enough about his #11 to make it a part of contract negotiations. Pat Quinn had no choice but to oblige if he was to sign Messier. There were other serious suitors for Messier's services, including the Detroit Red Wings, Washington Capitals, New York Islanders, and the New York Rangers.

The Capitals and Red Wings were Stanley Cup Contenders, while the Rangers were the team he was poised to leave. Initially, on the day of the Rangers' locker clean out in May 1997, Messier stated that he was willing to take a pay cut and play on a year-to-year basis "for the enjoyment of playing to win." He said he had earned enough, and also emphasized loyalty. Of course, he ultimately acted hypocritically as he turned his back on the team just a few weeks later in order to chase a lucrative contract.

He turned down major offers from Detroit and Washington -- both of whom reached the Stanley Cup Finals the following season -- to play for Vancouver. When asked, he acknowledged that money was a factor, and said that he hoped to "help bring Canada and Vancouver a Stanley Cup." We know now, however, that clauses such as the guaranteeing that he be able to wear #11, and the "team value increase" bonus that eventually delivered him $6 million in a settlement case in 2012, were also factors.

Once the Canucks were locked in to that contract, they could do nothing about the #11 situation. Mark Messier, however, could.

He chose to wear #11.
Why didn't the Rangers just give Messier more money then the Canucks? Even $7 million per instead of $6? I have heard Messier didn't want to share the spotlight with Gretzky maybe... But really he was THE MAN in NYC after the Cup win. I think he just left for money. The Rangers could have just given him whatever money and it wouldn't have been a big deal at that time for Messier.
Below are the timeline of events during Messier's contract negotiations as a free agent in 1997:
Messier Says He'd Like to Stay
By JOE LAPOINTE. New York Times (1923-Current file) [New York, N.Y] 28 May 1997: B8.

In his sixth year as a star performer for Madison Square Garden, Mark Messier has learned a little about the timetable of his corporate employer.

"With the way the Garden works, you have to be patient," said Messier, the captain of the Rangers, who will become an unrestricted free agent on July 1. "When your number's up, they'll take care of business." And the word, number, applies to many things in the case of Messier, including age, goals and salary. After making $6 million as the highest-paid player on the team this season, Messier is free to try the free market to seek better wages. But his leverage fell with his limited production during the Stanley Cup playoffs.

In addition, Messier discussed loyalty today as the team formally broke up for the summer and the players cleaned out their lockers in Playland Ice Casino. Messier hinted that he might accept a lower salary to continue dressing in a blue shirt alongside Wayne Gretzky, Brian Leetch and other players he admires. At least, he suggested, he will not aggressively market himself elsewhere.

"I don't even foresee that much negotiation going on with other teams," Messier said. "I don't know how much interest is out there. I haven't thought about that. I haven't even thought about playing anywhere else."

The Messier subject dominated the day. It was addressed by Neil Smith, the president and general manager, and Colin Campbell, the coach. . . . Although the Rangers ousted Florida and the Devils earlier in the playoffs, Messier scored only 3 goals in 15 games. He scored 36 in the regular season, but only 4 after Feb. 8.

Smith said he wants Messier to return for a seventh season as he approaches his 37th birthday. But Smith also used phrases like "economics of our situation" and "ceiling" and "use your budget wisely" and "trying to hold the line, fiscally" when discussing Messier.

"We'd love to have Mark back," Smith said. "We want him back. It is still a business at some point. You have to have a perspective of that." He said he would have loved to have kept Pat Verbeek after last season, but that he was outbid for Verbeek's services by the Dallas Stars. "I'm going to go into the summer process with the assumption we have Mark onside," Smith said.

Campbell used words such as "delicate" and "important" regarding the Messier question.

"Hopefully, for everybody, it's a happy ending," Campbell said. "How many dollars will it take to do this? It isn't going to be an easy thing. Lots of things will be difficult. . . . There always comes a day for any athlete and a time for an athlete to take a reduced load," Campbell said, adding that Messier did this until his minutes increased during the playoffs.

Messier seemed in high spirits today. . . . He said money would not be a big issue in his negotiations with the Rangers because he has earned plenty and is satisfied to play on a year-to-year basis for the enjoyment of playing to win. He even joked that he would be willing to work on a game-to-game contract.

"Throw the crutches away and get out there," Messier said.
Six weeks later, things had clearly changed.
Messier Says He May Move To New Team: HOCKEY Frustrated Messier Says He May Move to Another Team
By JOE LAPOINTE. New York Times (1923-Current file) [New York, N.Y] 15 July 1997: B9.

Unhappy with the Rangers' approach to negotiating his next contract, Mark Messier said he was prepared to leave New York and would begin serious negotiations today with the 15 National Hockey League teams he said have contacted him about his availability as a free agent.

One of them, the Ranger captain said, is the Islanders, who "have phoned a few times." . . . If he changes teams, Messier said, he will not necessarily have to move to a Stanley Cup contender but only to a team that wants him and is moving in a positive direction. "There has been no interest on the Rangers' part," Messier said. "To say it is disappointing would be an understatement. I thought we would be able to sit down and discuss it like men and like professionals. That seems to be not the way they are wanting to do business."

...

However, Messier also said that Smith told Messier's father that the Rangers would like to sign Messier to a one-year contract at a salary similar to that of Wayne Gretzky, who will make about $5 million next season. Messier earned $6 million last season, his sixth in New York as captain of the team.

In a statement, released through Madison Square Garden late yesterday, Smith said the team's management was "surprised and disappointed by Mark's comments" in the conference call.

"As an organization, we feel that we have always treated Mark with the respect that he has earned and deserved," Smiths' statement continued. "We strongly believe that our feelings about Mark's importance to the club are apparent by our current offer, which would continue to keep him as our highest-paid player. We continue to hope that Mark will remain a Ranger for the rest of his career. As has been our policy, I will not get into specifics regarding our negotiations."

Messier said he might have accepted a Gretzky-like offer had it come during the season, after the season or even on July 1, when he became a free agent. But he seemed particularly miffed that Smith made no effort to contact him until the Messier family initiated a meeting in Hilton Head, S.C., site of the family compound and site of the American Hockey League meetings last week, which Smith was attending.

"They have taken me, my loyalty and good-natured employeeship for a sign of weakness," Messier said. "I find myself in the middle of July not having a team to go to, perhaps having to change teams. They never even asked me how many years I would like to play. They never came down and visited me. Neil was here a week and didn't come over for a beer. We've put six good years in with these guys. I mean, show a little bit of respect."

Conceding that Smith's conversation with his father may have constituted a serious contract offer, Messier added that he and his father tried to get in touch with Smith again after that and that Smith did not return their phone messages.

"We were supposed to talk Friday," Messier said, referring to last week. . . . Asked if he considered himself low man on the totem pole, Messier replied, "I don't think I'm even on the totem pole." He said more than once that he is psychologically prepared to move.

"I'm a big boy, too," Messier said. "If I'm not in their plans, all they have to do is phone me and let me know. We've already got about six phone calls to return tomorrow."
Eight days later:
Messier, Rangers talk again: [FINAL Edition]
Litsky, Frank. The Ottawa Citizen [Ottawa, Ont] 23 July 1997: E.2.

NEW YORK -- The contract negotiations between the New York Rangers and Mark Messier, which produced a series of unpleasant charges and countercharges last week, have warmed up this week, clearing the way for the hockey team to soon re-sign its 36-year-old captain and centre.

Messier has been upset because the Rangers re-signed coach Colin Campbell and the NBA's New York Knicks re-signed centre Patrick Ewing and coach Jeff Van Gundy, while the Rangers had not made an offer to him.

So Messier, a free agent, announced last week that he would look elsewhere in the NHL, and he said during a teleconference yesterday from his home on Hilton Head Island, South Carolina, that many teams had indicated interest in him.

He said he had narrowed the list to about five teams.

``I've been offered three-year deals and a lifetime deal,'' he said. ``The offers have been very strong. Obviously, some teams feel I can help them and do a lot of things for them.''

Messier also said that his father, Doug, acting as his agent, had talked ``a couple of times'' in the past few days with Dave Checketts, the president of Madison Square Garden, which owns the Rangers and the Knicks. He said his father and Checketts planned to talk by telephone again last night. Checketts was unavailable for comment.

The presence of Checketts in the negotiations seems significant. Messier was upset that Neil Smith, the Rangers' general manager, had not made a contract offer.

Although Messier said he had no conflict with Smith, he may feel more comfortable with Checketts, who is Smith's boss, and who would most likely be the person to clear the deal with the Garden's owner, Cablevision.

Although Messier was not specific, he would reportedly like a three-year contract at his current salary of $6 million U.S. a year. The Rangers would probably prefer one year at about $3 million. A compromise looms with a two-year deal for at least $4 million a year.

``I don't want to get to the point where I am now and deal with other teams and take offers,'' Messier said. ``But, being a free agent July 1 and still having nothing concrete from New York two weeks later, I had to do it. Everything is open for negotiation now. I think being able to get to this point has opened my eyes to what the market holds for me.

``It's been a nightmare. I didn't want to be in a situation where I had to make these kinds of decisions. I wanted to be in New York, but things changed in a hurry. I'm getting offers that are hard to refuse. It's been a bit of a nightmare because I love it in New York -- the team, the city.''
In response to the "nightmare" comment:
Messier Corners A Market
ARATON, HARVEY. New York Times (1923-Current file) [New York, N.Y] 24 July 1997: B9.

We should all have Mark Messier's nightmares. The kind in which your employer essentially challenges you to go out and seek a better offer and you return with one that's about three times as good. The Rangers' captain may have taken too much sun down at his Hilton Head, S.C., compound the other day before telling reporters awaiting another contract update that his time as a legend without a team has been "a nightmare." Maybe that was just a poor choice of words. Maybe he meant to say windfall.

Nightmare? . . . Whiten and Spano have only themselves to blame, but who would want to trade places with them?

Messier's nightmare, on the other hand, is having to choose between a reported three-year, $18 million offer by Vancouver, expected bids by Edmonton and Montreal, and the "bigger, longer deal" that Dave Checketts, the Madison Square Garden president, was authorized to put on the table yesterday by Charles Dolan of Cablevision, said one Garden official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. Seems to me, Messier woke up from his nightmare -- could it have been the position he was in after saying weeks ago that he was merely seeking a one-year contract? -- and smelled the leverage.

Angry that their team may lose the man most responsible for delivering the long lost Stanley Cup three years ago, Ranger fans keep calling the local all-sports radio station and screaming about how the Rangers are cheating a man who is true Ranger blue. They throw out the $65 million handed Patrick Ewing by the Knicks and say how dare the Rangers be disloyal to Messier. They are right about that but wrong about whom the Garden owes its loyalty to. Not so much to Messier, who has been handsomely rewarded by the Rangers for winning the cup, but to the fans themselves.

The ones who, you know, buy those tickets that Checketts announces ever spring the Garden must regrettably charge a lot more for. Just the other day, in fact, Checketts was quoted in one metropolitan area newspaper as expressing his "concern" about Knicks and Rangers prices escalating to the point where banks may soon want to consider offering season-ticket mortgages. I believe Checketts is sincere about this not really the person to yell at anyway.

...

Messier made a transparent grandstand move last week, claiming the Rangers were insulting him with indifference. The Rangers insisted they had made the one-year offer Messier wanted in the first place. Sounds as if the Rangers were adroitly maneuvered into a corner, but that's business. Messier obviously knows how popular he is.

...

Even without Ewing, the Knicks would have had little operating room, no chance to even create the illusion of contention for next season and a handful of seasons beyond.

Messier doesn't have that sort of leverage.

...
The Rangers raised their offer, while the other teams that were interested became known:
In Competition for Messier, Rangers Raise Their Offer: The Canadiens may enter the bidding for the 36-year-old star.
By FRANK LITSKY. New York Times (1923-Current file) [New York, N.Y] 24 July 1997: B13.

Because Mark Messier fever has struck several National Hockey League teams, the Rangers have increased their offer to re-sign their 36-year-old center and captain, who is now a free agent.

A person familiar with the negotiations said the Rangers offered Messier a one-year contract earlier this month calling for $3.25 million in salary and $1.75 million in deferred payments. The present value of that offer was $4 million.

That person said Messier was disappointed by both the duration and the dollar value of the offer. Messier then said publicly that perhaps the Rangers did not want him back and that he was open to offers from other teams.

During a conference call Tuesday, Messier said several teams had made offers, some for three years and others for the rest of his career. He said Doug Messier, his father and agent, planned to talk that night with Dave Checketts, the president of Madison Square Garden, which owns the Rangers.

Yesterday, the person familiar with the negotiations said, the Rangers raised their offer significantly. Checketts was unavailable for comment.

Teams said to be interested in Messier include the Islanders, the Edmonton Oilers (his first N.H.L. team), the Vancouver Canucks, the Montreal Canadiens, the Washington Capitals and the Chicago Blackhawks.

Ginger Killian, a spokeswoman for the Islanders, said the team had not made an offer to Messier.

"We talked with Doug Messier on Monday," she said, "and agreed to talk again, probably later in the week. We have not talked numbers. We are still gathering information."

Bernard Brisset, a vice president of the Canadiens, said his team was interested in Messier.

"We're considering making him an offer," Brisset said, "and right now we are analyzing the whole thing. Obviously, this would not be a small contract. I expect it will be a few days before we do anything with Mark."

Brisset indicated that Montreal was not concerned over Messier's age.

"He's 36," Brisset said, "and by 36 most players are winding down their careers. A three-year-deal would make him 40 years old at the end of the contract. There are exceptions, though, and obviously Mark is one of them. From our team's standpoint, we've always recognized Mark as one of the best players in the league. With his strong leadership skills, he could fit into the Montreal Canadiens role, along with the leaders we have now in Vincent Damphousse, Mark Recchi and Saku Koivu."
A day after that:
Rangers Add to Big Offers In the Race to Land Messier
By JASON DIAMOS. New York Times (1923-Current file) [New York, N.Y] 25 July 1997: B11.

Negotiating his way brilliantly through a high-stakes poker game with his future as the pot, the Rangers' captain, Mark Messier, seems to have all the cards on his side right now. All the 36-year-old unrestricted free agent appears to be doing is playing out his hand.

At the table: the Vancouver Canucks with a three-year, $18 million offer; the defending Stanley Cup champion Detroit Red Wings and their three-year, $15 million bid; and the Rangers, who are now believed to have raised their ante to two years, $10 million, with a club option or buyout for a third year that could increase the package's value to $15 million, too.

The Islanders announced yesterday that they have folded from the game. The Montreal Canadiens apparently never really were in. And contrary to popular belief, the Edmonton Oilers, Messier's former team, never tendered an offer.

"Of course I'm interested," said the Oilers' president, Glen Sather, a longtime friend of Messier's. "Can I afford him? No." The Rangers, the Red Wings and the Canucks apparently can.

The play is now Messier's. But he and his father, Doug, who serves as his agent, might makes the Rangers' president, Neil Smith, and the folks at Madison Square Garden sweat a little more before they make their next move.

"I spoke to Doug Messier this morning because I wanted to know if those figures were somewhat accurate," General Manager Mike Milbury of the Islanders said yesterday of the various reported offers. "He said they were." And so Milbury bowed out.

Neither Smith, Mark Messier nor the Garden's president, Dave Checketts, was commenting publicly yesterday, one day after the Rangers significantly increased their initial offer of one year for $5 million to Messier, with less than $4 million up front. The Rangers blinked because of the Canucks' enticing bid, which became public knowledge earlier this week.

"I don't know anything and I don't want to know anything," Rangers Coach Colin Campbell said yesterday from his summer home in Ontario, adding that he last spoke with Messier at Mike Richter's wedding earlier this month. "Certainly I would like to have Mark Back and Neil as general manager would love to have him come back, too. But I have respect for both sides."

Campbell is not the only coach who would love to have Messier, however.

"As a coach, I'd take him as a player," Detroit's Scotty Bowman said yesterday, mindful that the presence of the veteran center, who has six Stanley Cup rings, might make it easier for the Red Wings to win another title this season. "But I'm not involved with the economics."

That responsibility belongs to Ken Holland, who became the Detroit general manager effective last Friday. It is believed that the Red Wings will not go four years and will not match Vancouver's offer.
[ Mark Messier signs an $18-million US deal... ]
Haysom, Ian. CanWest News [Don Mills, Ont] 28 July 1997: 1.

VANCOUVER - Mark Messier pulled a Vancouver Canucks jersey over his expensive designer shirt Monday, gave a wide grin, lifted his arms aloft and said he was excited to be "back in Canada, back home." Messier, the 36-year-old Alberta-born former Edmonton Oiler and New York Ranger, signed a three-year deal with the Canucks for what sources say is $18 million US over the life of the contract. He says he expects to finish his illustrious career in Vancouver.

The Canucks won the bidding war for the free-agent centre against a number of NHL teams, including Edmonton and Detroit, after 10 days of negotiations, culminating in a one-on-one meeting between Messier and wealthy Seattle team owner John McCaw in San Francisco on the weekend. The Canucks unveiled their new signing at a lavish press conference at GM Place where officials were unabashedly ecstatic over the signing of the aging superstar. Videos were played, featuring the reading of Rudyard Kipling's If (If you can walk with kings and never lose the common touch . . . one day you'll be a man, my son), backs were slapped, toasts were drunk, and team officials spoke of Messier as a legend, a leader, a champion and a repatriated Canadian and westerner.

Canucks president and general manager Pat Quinn saluted Messier's "sheer passion" for the game, as well as his steely jaw and deep- set eyes, and said the Canucks had added "to our base a core of leadership. The native son is returning to Canada to play Canada's game."

...

"His winning attitude is going to rub off on all of us," said Quinn. . . . Messier will wear his famous No. 11 as a Canuck, despite the fact the signature number hasn't been worn in Vancouver since forward Wayne Maki died of cancer following the 1972-73 season.

...

Money, however, was - "I'd be lying if I said it wasn't - but Messier added he was swayed by the intense negotiations conducted by Quinn and former Orca Bay president John Chapple, who now works on special projects for McCaw.

"There was great goodwill and unbelievable energy from these two men," he said. "Hopefully, I can help bring Canada and Vancouver a Stanley Cup." Messier told reporters he was sad to leave the Rangers, but didn't bad-mouth his former team, who failed to come close to matching the Canucks' offer. "New York was a wonderful experience, and it was hard to leave the team, the players and the fans. I was always treated first class, right to the end." He said he had spoken to team mate and close friend Wayne Gretzky about the move. "It was difficult. But it was difficult to leave everyone there, all the players."

...

Messier said he had spoken "a couple of times" with Oilers general manager Glen Sather.

"Glen and I talked about the possibility. I know Glen well. But when Pat and Mr. Chapple came along with that incredible goodwill, I felt I was drawn to their philosophies.

"In the end, you just have to go with your gut instincts."

...
Vancouver's gain is NYC's pain: [Final Edition]
Jamieson, Jim. The Province [Vancouver, B.C] 29 July 1997: A47.

Monday morning's sports front in the New York Post said it all.

The headline, perched above head shots of Madison Square Garden president and chief executive officer Dave Checketts and New York Rangers president Neil Smith., screamed: Marked Men.

Another headline said simply: He's Gone.

Such is the outrage and sense of loss in the Big Apple after the Vancouver Canucks hijacked the Rangers' popular captain with a monstrous three-year, $20 million US contract.

Adam Graves, to whom Messier has been a mentor since their days together in Edmonton, was clearly devastated.

"All I know is I've been very fortunate," said Graves, Messier's left winger for what seems countless seasons.

"I've learned so much from him. It hurts me a little more than losing somebody else because I have so much respect for him. No one in the league is going to have a presence like that. That's what makes him Mess. Luckily we still have Wayne and that helps immensely, but no one can be Mess. We have to take what he taught us and carry on."

Checketts was in full damage control.

"We really thought Messier would come back to us," said Checketts. "We were never given the opportunity. We had an extra year and extra money, but we never got the chance. He made a decision. For some reason the owners in Vancouver decided they could give whatever it would take to get the deal done," continued Checketts. "Twenty million dollars over three years shocked 26 teams. He hit the lotto."

Meanwhile, the other teams that were seriously interested in Messier said they simply couldn't beat what the Canucks had to offer.

"We still feel Mark Messier is one of the top players in the league and his leadership is unparalleled, but we simply weren't able to match the kind of commitment made by Vancouver," said Detroit Red Wings GM Ken Holland.

The Red Wings had offered $15 million over three years, but drew the line there.

The Washington Capitals were the other serious bidders. Their offer was said to be worth more ($21 million over three years), but Messier's desire to minimize playing against Gretzky and his other New York pals put them out of the running.

"We were in the vicinity of the Canucks' offer ... but were told by Mark and his father he didn't want to go to a team where he'd have to play his old friends on the Rangers six times a year," said new Caps GM George McPhee.
In Signing Messier, Canucks' Persistence Paid Off: HOCKEY In Signing Messier, Persistence Paid Off
By JASON DIAMOS. New York Times (1923-Current file) [New York, N.Y] 31 July 1997: B7.

...

It was Saturday, July 19, and Pat Quinn, the Vancouver Canucks' general manager, decided to take the initiative. The Canucks badly wanted to sign Mark Messier, so Quinn figured he would get a head start on other suitors by flying to Hilton Head Island to lobby the Messiers in person. Quinn and another team executive, John Chapple, arrived in South Carolina the next day.

...

"I named myself The Thing That Wouldn't Leave," Chapple said. ". . . We looked at this as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. . ."

...

Dissatisfied with the way the Rangers were negotiating, Doug Messier, Mark's father and agent, called Quinn and told him his son might be interested in playing for Vancouver. The Canucks were still smarting from a year ago, when they thought they were going to land Wayne Gretzky and he ended up signing with the Rangers instead. Gretzky's agent, they felt, had perhaps used the Canucks as a bargaining tool. But with Messier, Chapple said, "I never felt we were being used to cattle-prod the Rangers." . . . So Quinn went home on Wednesday. But Chapple stayed on, trying to persuade the Messiers to fly out to San Francisco to meet with McCaw, the cellular entrepeneur who is based in Seattle, on his yacht. Chapple's persistence paid off.

The Messiers made a stop in Washington on Friday to meet with the Capitals' owner, Abe Pollin. There were other offers as well. Detroit was reportedly in the running with a three-year, $15 million bid. The Capitals apparently offered the most at $21 million for three years. But the Capitals are in the Rangers' division, and Messier simply did not want to face his former teammates at least six times a year. . . . Messier met McCaw for the first time on Saturday on the owners' boat, and a deal was struck that afternoon.

"It wouldn't be fair to say we had a contract," Chapple said. "But we had an understanding." On paper. Back in New York, however, Messier's close friends were saying privately that he was still not sure about moving, that he wanted to somehow remain with the team he helped guide to the Stanley Cup in 1994, breaking a 54-year drought.

"It was clear that he was wrestling with a highly emotional situation," Chapple said. So that evening Messier phoned the Rangers to give them one last chance. He wanted to know if New York's final offer was indeed for $10 million over two years, the figure the Rangers had leaked to the New York news media. Messier said that Smith's reply was one year, $4.6 million.

"And we said, 'Thank you, very much,'" Messier said. That is, thanks, but no thanks.
The Messiers stayed in San Francisco on Sunday, then flew to Vancouver for Monday's news conference. The signing was hailed in the Canadian news media as a victory for small-market Canadian clus, whose influence has diminished in the modern-day National Hockey League.

The Canucks are getting a 36-year-old center with six Stanley Cup rings, a proven leader and fierce competitor. But they will pay heavily for it. Messier will earn $5 million a season (in United States money) for each of the next three seasons, plus an additional $1 million each season for promotions and marketing. The contract includes team and individual incentives that could push the total close to $20 million -- and the Canucks have team options for fourth and fifth years that could push the total value beyond $30 million.

So, Quinn was asked, did the Canucks overpay for Messier? "That's a difficult question to answer," he said. "But we believe he's the player we needed."

...
Some fan reactions:
Rangers fans disbelieving: [FINAL Edition]
Litsky, Frank. The Gazette [Montreal, Que] 29 July 1997: F.2.

...

Aimy Herman has been a season- ticket holder since 1982, when her husband gave her the tickets as a wedding gift. She said she was upset with Messier.

"He was telling the Rangers one thing and doing something else," she said. "He gave the Rangers the impression that he wanted to come back and that money was not an issue. But when it came down to it, money was the deciding factor. When you're 36, going on 37, you're not worth as much as the last contract he signed.

"I wish that he could have finished his career with Wayne Gretzky. That's the way it should have been. But I have other favourite players on the team that I like to root for. I'm a Ranger fan, not a Mark Messier fan."


Ted Kalamaras lives in Florida and came north to pay his bill for season tickets. He said he felt like heading back south when he heard that Messier was gone.

"It sure is ironic that the day our money is due for our season tickets, Messier signs with Vancouver," Kalamaras said. "This is how the Rangers reward me for commuting up north eight months a year. I'm just sick over this whole thing.

"If they would have just given him a two-year, $10-million contract before that July 1 free-agent deadline, he would still be here. They dropped the ball, and now they have a tremendous void to fill."

Bill Neville, who teaches social studies at Great Neck South High School on Long Island, said the Rangers did not give Messier the respect he deserved.

"The Knicks made Patrick Ewing feel appreciated and wanted," Neville said. "Messier wasn't given the same treatment. Maybe the three-year contract he wanted was too much, but as long as they're building the team with a veteran like Gretzky, they might as well go for it now. I'll survive this, but I hope they go out and get someone else."

At least one person had hoped Messier would reject both the Rangers and the Canucks. Jim Devellano, the senior vice-president of the Detroit Red Wings, has been unable to re-sign Igor Larianov and Sergei Fedorov, both free-agent centres, and he was trying to sign Messier. But Devellano said he, too, would survive.

"He'll play well for Vancouver," Devellano said. "He's an interesting player, a very complete player. You make a pitch, but you don't count on it."
Messier setting record straight: Newest Canuck says Rangers didn't want him back on team: [FINAL Edition]
Duhatschek, Eric. Calgary Herald [Calgary, Alta] 20 Sep 1997: C.2.

...

Messier broke his self-imposed silence on his contract negotiations with the Rangers last week, saying the best word to sum up his emotions about leaving New York was ``disappointment.''

``When I left Edmonton, it was because I wanted to leave,'' Messier told The New York Post. ``I needed a change in my life; I needed a city like New York. So that was a lot different than this. Because the fact is, no matter what the Rangers want to tell people, I never wanted to leave. Never.

``The fact is, the Rangers never wanted me back, not at all. They did not want me to be a Ranger. It wasn't about money. How could it have been about money when we never even had negotiations? There was one offer, for one year guaranteed at $3.2 million, with another $1.6 million deferred. So it wasn't about money
, even though when I signed (with Vancouver), the Rangers tried to make it seem as if I were a money-hungry player who'd gone back on his word.

``You know what's almost funny about the situation? There were signs all year that maybe some other people picked up on and I didn't, so I have to admit I was caught by surprise. I guess I wasn't paying attention until I was literally slapped across the face.''

Messier, asked why the Rangers would make so feeble an offer for the man who helped them win the 1994 Stanley Cup, theorized: ``It's because management and the coaches thought I had control of the team and they wanted it back. Obviously I can't get into their heads and, obviously, they're going to deny it, but that's the truth as I see it.

``I put pressure on them to do the right thing. I spoke up. I think they just got tired of it . . . They didn't feel they could do what they wanted because the loyalty of the players was with me. Of course, that's exactly the reason they brought me to the team in the first place.''

...
Wasn't Gretzky still under contract with the Rangers at this time?
Yes. Had Gretzky signed with Vancouver, the Messier fiasco would have been avoided entirely. He was leaning towards signing with the team, and had been thrilled about the idea of returning to Canada and playing with Pavel Bure, as he later expressed. Unfortunately, Quinn completely mishandled the situation and drove Gretzky away. Desperate to sign a high-profile centerman, he opted for Messier instead the following season.

Here's an excerpt from a piece by Al Strachan:

http://anecdotage.com/articles/106292/how-wayne-gretzky-almost-joined-the-vancouver-canucks
In 1996, Wayne Gretzky was the greatest name in hockey. Yet he was a free agent who had to go to the United States [with the Los Angeles Kings] to exhibit his talent...

Gretzky was leaning towards a return to Canada and let it be known that he would have no objection to playing for Vancouver [Canucks], but the GM of the day, Pat Quinn, said he had no interest and departed for a vacation in the Far East.

He should have checked with the team owner, John McCaw -- an American. When McCaw found out that Gretzky was willing to play for his Canucks, he was thrilled and called Quinn back from his vacation.

The logisitics of the negotiations were unusual... Gretzky's agent and lawyer were trying to hammer out a contract with Quinn, Canucks assistant GM George McPhee and team accountants. Meanwhile, in an adjacent room, Gretzky and McCaw chatted, relaxed, shared reminiscences and generally set the foundation for a firm friendship.

Late in the evening, with negotiations still dragging on, those two decided that they'd hung around long enough. McCaw went his way and Gretzky went back to his hotel room.

In the wee hours, the phone rang. A deal had been reached. Gretzky had to return to the offices and sign it immediately.

Gretzky refused. He would give his word that he would sign the deal in the morning, but he had no intention of trooping back to the office at 2 a.m...

That wasn't good enough. "It's now or never," was the response.

"That's up to you," said Gretzky.

No doubt the Canucks management felt that Gretzky was trying to use their offer as leverage. That simply was not true. Either way, Gretzky was lost to the Canucks. When McCaw found out, he was furious... Because the Canucks wanted a big name, they went after Mark Messier. They got him, but the contract cost $20 million, considerably more than the proposed Gretzky deal, and Messier's tenure was something less than a resounding success.

In November 1997, McCaw fired Quinn.

It was ultimately Quinn's blunder during the Gretzky negotiations that resulted in the Canucks' search for an alternative centerman. The team looked at the next available option: Mark Messier.

Marm%20Messier.jpg


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hi-res-4dd43c32ea3fe802c73593b0fb8a4164_crop_north.jpg
 
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Megahab

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
7,162
1,258
Toronto
Were there any other Canadian teams that came close to signing Gretzky in the 1996 off-season? I was only 10 in the 1996 off-season, don't really remember what the rumours were or even if I was paying attention. I do remember rumours of the Leafs trying to get him from the Kings, before he got traded to the Blues.

Also didn't know about Quinn's ultimatum to Gretzky. Did this cause any long-term conflict between the two? It's interesting considering they worked together for the 2002 Olympics.

Imagine Gretzky centering Bure. Wow.
 

Sonny Lamateena

Registered User
Nov 2, 2004
1,261
14
Ottawa, Ontario
I've spoken to many Canucks fans about Mark Messier and they all agree he was awful in Vancouver and his signing was a huge mistake for the franchise. But the reason he is not just considered a lazy, overpaid, dissapointment and instead is hated with such passion is because he is a symbol for eveyrthing that went wrong during a dark time in Canucks history. On the ice Messier's didn't live up to to expectations the team and fans had for him but some of the truths have been stretched and some details that might spread some of the blame around to other parties are often omitted to vilify him.

Some of those things are:

1 The organizations problems started with the signing of Messier, Messier was responsible for the getting rid of talent. the team started to imrove as soon as Messier left.

The Vancouver Canucks had went to the Cup final in 94 and they had declined each season since and missed the playoffs prior to Messier's arrival.

1994 - 85pts, 2nd in the Pacific, Lost Stanley Cup Finals
1995 - 48pts, 2nd in the Pacific, Lost Conference Semifinals
1996 - 79pts, 3rd in the Pacific, Lost Conference Quarterfinals
1997 - 77pts, 4th in the Pacific, Did not qualify

In Summer of 1997 the Canucks signed Messier (age 36) to a 3 year $6 million/season deal.

During Messier's first 2 seasons, the Canucks continued their decline. Pavel Bure (the teams leading scorer) held out and demanded a trade blaming a history of being mistreated by management. They also moved out many popular players due to poor play.

Trevor Linden (Age 27): 42GP 7G 14A 21Pts -13
Martin Gelinas (Age 27): 24GP 4G 4A 8Pts -6
Gino Odjick (Age 27): 35GP 3G 2A 5Pts -3
Dave Babych (Age 36): 47GP 0G 9A 9Pts -11
Kirk McLean (Age 31): 3.68 GAA 6W 17L 4T/OT 0.879SV%

1998 - 64pts, 7th in the Pacific, Did not qualify
1999 - 58pts, 4th in the Northwest, Did not qualify

In Messier's 3rd Season the Canucks lead by a younger retooled team had their best season since 1994, falling 4 points short of a playoff spot.

2000 - 83pts, 3rd in the Northwest, Did not qualify

Messier signed with Rangers as an UFA and the Canucks continued their rise back to the playoffs.


2 Messier wasn't the same player in Vancouver because of lack of interest. While it's true Messier did score 14 less goals and 22 less points than he did the previous year in NY, ths decline started the year before with the Rangers when his goals total dropped by 11 and points total dropped by 15. Messier was getting old and his play was declining rapidly. Despie Messier's huge drops in production, during his 3 years in Vancouver (ages 37-39), he finished 2nd, 2nd, and 3rd in team scoring.

3 Trevor Linden and the captaincy. At the press conference when Messier was signed by Vancouver, Messier was asked about the captaincy, he said, "Everybody knows Trevor Linden is the captain of Vancouver and that he's done a tremendous job being captain. Their is no reason to change that."

Messier had said Linden was captain, yet Linden still asked teammates and Messier himself what he should do with the captaincy and they all told him to do what he thought was right, Linden stands up in front of the whole dressing room and says to his teammates that he wanted to turn the captaincy over to Messier. Messier accepted.

Trevor Linden told Gary Mason of the Vancouver Sun tht, "It was just something I had to do. If I remained the captain, bringing in a player with his history and leadership qualities, if things did go wrong I was going to be second-guessed the whole time. So my only option was to say to, 'Mark, listen, I think this is the way it should be,' and Mark accepted it, so we moved on."

Linden was playing poorly and was dealt for Todd Bertuzzi and Bryan McCabe (who was packaged with a 1st round pick for Chicago's 1st round pick so the Canucks could draft both Sedin's).

4 Wayne Maki and #11. Mark Messier was told that using the number had been cleared with the Maki family. They had no idea Messier was going to be wearing the number and found out watching the news. They were hurt and when finally contacted by the Canucks were told they should be honored that Messier is wearing the number, they understandably weren't. Later they offered their blessing to have Messier wear the number during the length of his contract as long as the Canucks would acknowledge the number as retired. The Canucks refused saying the number never was retired.
 

JA

Guest
Were there any other Canadian teams that came close to signing Gretzky in the 1996 off-season? I was only 10 in the 1996 off-season, don't really remember what the rumours were or even if I was paying attention. I do remember rumours of the Leafs trying to get him from the Kings, before he got traded to the Blues.

Also didn't know about Quinn's ultimatum to Gretzky. Did this cause any long-term conflict between the two? It's interesting considering they worked together for the 2002 Olympics.

Imagine Gretzky centering Bure. Wow.

It seems Vancouver and Toronto were the only two Canadian teams seeking Gretzky's services during the 1996 off-season. Here are two sources, one from a 2011 Damien Cox article, and the other from a 2008 Howard Berger article.

http://www.bergerbytes.ca/gretzky-to-run-leafs/
In the summer of 1996 — long after he had re-written the NHL record book — Gretzky wanted to finish his playing career as a member of the Leafs. Fletcher, in his first coming as Toronto GM, had all but worked out the details of a free agent contract with Barnett when Leafs’ owner Steve Stavro put the kibosh on the deal. In the ensuing years, two stories have made the rounds. The first, and most prominent, is that Stavro denied approval on the grounds that Gretzky could not possibly fill any vacant seats at the Gardens. Stavro was in a financial crunch at the time and had recently slashed the Leafs’ payroll. But, Stavro, himself, had a different take — one he relayed to me on a long flight from Vienna to Toronto after the 2005 World Hockey Championships. The owner, who would pass away just more than a year later, claimed that Gretzky and Barnett wanted equity in the Leafs — a demand that he and his board of directors were unprepared to meet.

Whatever the case, the situation didn’t pan out, and Gretzky signed with the New York Rangers — the club with which he finished his career three years later.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/2011/11/18/cox_gretzky_contacted_to_join_bid_for_leafs.html
In 1996, Gretzky was a 35-year-old free agent, and set up an arrangement with then Leaf GM Cliff Fletcher to leave St. Louis and join the Leafs.

“We were talking about something between $2 million and $3 million a season,†Gretzky told Gord Stellick for the book ’67: The Maple Leafs, Their Sensational Victory and the End of An Empire, published in 2004.

“And you know, the ridiculous part is that Vancouver was offering me $8 million a season. But I wanted to be a Leaf in the worst way. I told Cliff, ‘I’ll do whatever it takes to make it work. You can defer my salary for 25 years if you have to. Whatever it takes to get the deal done.’â€

Ultimately, partly because Stavro was forced to pay millions to the charities named in Harold Ballard’s will, the Leafs declined to sign Gretzky, who joined the New York Rangers, instead.

“(Fletcher) said he couldn’t get the deal approved,†said Gretzky, who said he was convinced at the time he was going to play for the Leafs. “Oh, definitely. I thought that way for a few weeks.â€

Based on these two articles and Pat Quinn's infamous mishandling of his negotiations with Gretzky, it's difficult to say in which order Gretzky was approached by each team. I'm not sure whether the ordeal between him and the Canucks had an influence on what he says in the Cox article; of course, resentment of any sort would change the story he would report, though none can be sure except him.

Regardless, both teams failed to sign Gretzky when it seemed each deal was very close; in Vancouver's case, it resulted in the Canucks pursuing Messier instead.
 

Nona Di Giuseppe

Registered User
Jul 14, 2009
4,898
2,425
Coquitlam
Massive Canucks fan. Especially during that time.

Messier was not hated nor considered the worst Canuck of all time.

In most people's eyes around here, he just didn't work out.

Keenan, Burke, Nedved would go down as more disliked.
 

JA

Guest
In a short time, I may provide footage involving commentators' discussion about Messier from the games I have archived. Ken Daniels and Mickey Redmond of the Detroit Red Wings broadcasts make many observations during one game regarding Messier's play. In an MSG broadcast, John Davidson remarks the same. Messier took short shifts, was not physical, and looked very disinterested.

Here is a fight involving Messier from the 1998-99 season. Aside from the fight itself, the more glaring detail is the comment Jim Robson, the Canucks' legendary play-by-play announcer, makes in the following video clip:

"We haven't seen that from Messier for two seasons."


Messier was once a tough, inspired leader with the Oilers and Rangers, but was now emotionless.

In February 2000, after the infamous Marty McSorley slash on Donald Brashear, each team's coaches and players were interviewed. Everyone from Marc Crawford to Pat Burns to Brad May showed emotion. Messier lacked any emotion in contrast with everyone else.

3:41:


Massive Canucks fan. Especially during that time.

Messier was not hated nor considered the worst Canuck of all time.

In most people's eyes around here, he just didn't work out.

Keenan, Burke, Nedved would go down as more disliked.

I disagree. If you were to ask any Canucks fan from that time, they would cite Messier as a major problem. He was disliked already after 1994. To invade that dressing room along with Keenan and dismantle the entire team, and then to play without any sort of emotion or effort, made him the focal point of criticism throughout those years. The topic has arisen every few years, and the consensus has always been the same. He was hated, and he still is very much hated by Canucks fans.

Messier signed with Rangers as an UFA and the Canucks continued their rise back to the playoffs.

He was bought out in the third year of his five-year deal. The team did not want him around any longer. He was an overpaid, lazy player who showed little effort or passion, and who was supposed to represent them as their captain. At no time did he lead the team; he was 12th, 9th, and 18th in penalty minutes, took fewer shots than he had ever taken up to that point, did not hit, and simply drifted around often, taking short shifts. He and Keenan had changed the dressing room environment dramatically in his first season with the team, ousting the team's core pieces, and was now leading the team to mediocrity by coasting through these seasons with little interest.

2 Messier wasn't the same player in Vancouver because of lack of interest. While it's true Messier did score 14 less goals and 22 less points than he did the previous year in NY, ths decline started the year before with the Rangers when his goals total dropped by 11 and points total dropped by 15. Messier was getting old and his play was declining rapidly. Despie Messier's huge drops in production, during his 3 years in Vancouver (ages 37-39), he finished 2nd, 2nd, and 3rd in team scoring.

He hadn't shown any effort. That was a major factor in everyone's disappointment with his play. Had he put in any effort or showed even a portion of the aggression or passion he had played with in his previous years, he would not have bothered Canucks fans to the same degree; his on-ice play made him an even greater burden to the team, and his off-ice disturbance made him an unacceptable distraction. In those three years, he played on the team's top line and often benefited from playing with two more impactful linemates.

3 Trevor Linden and the captaincy. At the press conference when Messier was signed by Vancouver, Messier was asked about the captaincy, he said, "Everybody knows Trevor Linden is the captain of Vancouver and that he's done a tremendous job being captain. Their is no reason to change that."

Messier had said Linden was captain, yet Linden still asked teammates and Messier himself what he should do with the captaincy and they all told him to do what he thought was right, Linden stands up in front of the whole dressing room and says to his teammates that he wanted to turn the captaincy over to Messier. Messier accepted.

Trevor Linden told Gary Mason of the Vancouver Sun tht, "It was just something I had to do. If I remained the captain, bringing in a player with his history and leadership qualities, if things did go wrong I was going to be second-guessed the whole time. So my only option was to say to, 'Mark, listen, I think this is the way it should be,' and Mark accepted it, so we moved on."

Linden was playing poorly and was dealt for Todd Bertuzzi and Bryan McCabe (who was packaged with a 1st round pick for Chicago's 1st round pick so the Canucks could draft both Sedin's).

Keenan had decided to dismantle the team upon becoming the team's general manager. His feuds with Linden are certainly well-documented, and definitely played a role in Linden's removal from the team. He was previously considered the one player who would not be traded due to his importance to the team's culture, to the franchise, to the fans, and to the city. As soon as Keenan and Messier arrived, the dressing room became hostile and wholesale changes were made to remove the entire core of players.

4 Wayne Maki and #11. Mark Messier was told that using the number had been cleared with the Maki family. They had no idea Messier was going to be wearing the number and found out watching the news. They were hurt and when finally contacted by the Canucks were told they should be honored that Messier is wearing the number, they understandably weren't. Later they offered their blessing to have Messier wear the number during the length of his contract as long as the Canucks would acknowledge the number as retired. The Canucks refused saying the number never was retired.

Messier never made any effort or request to wear a different number despite the Maki family's plea. He was made fully aware of the situation. We have already documented his sense of entitlement during his time in Vancouver. He remained idle while everything else happened around him; the organization spoon-fed him anything he wanted. One has to wonder if the Keenan hiring was influenced by him, whether it be Quinn who felt Keenan could ignite a spark in Messier or if Messier wanted Keenan to coach.
 
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RobertKron

Registered User
Sep 1, 2007
15,384
8,459
Here is a fight involving Messier from the 1998-99 season. Aside from the fight itself, the more glaring detail is the comment Jim Robson, the Canucks' legendary play-by-play announcer, makes in the following video clip:

"We haven't seen that from Messier for two seasons."


It cannot be understated, too, just how much Robson loved the Canucks and their players. To hear him speak like that about a Canuck is really significant.

I remember another time when Messier was here when there was a line brawl, and everyone was going at it, and then the camera pans out and Messier is just skating around in the neutral zone gazing off into the crowd as if nothing was happening. The guy didn't give a ****.

Also, the guy went on the radio in Vancouver in 2008 or so, and had the nerve to say that he thought his time in Vancouver was a great success.

He remains the only Canuck player that I've ever heard my mother, a rabid Canuck fan since they joined the league, wish bodily harm.
 

Sonny Lamateena

Registered User
Nov 2, 2004
1,261
14
Ottawa, Ontario
He was bought out in the third year of his five-year deal. The team did not want him around any longer. He was an overpaid, lazy player who showed little effort or passion, and who was supposed to represent them as their captain. At no time did he lead the team; he was 12th, 9th, and 18th in penalty minutes, took fewer shots than he had ever taken up to that point, did not hit, and simply drifted around often, taking short shifts. He and Keenan had changed the dressing room environment dramatically in his first season with the team, ousting the team's core pieces, and was now leading the team to mediocrity by coasting through these seasons with little interest

He hadn't shown any effort. That was a major factor in everyone's disappointment with his play. Had he put in any effort or showed even a portion of the aggression or passion he had played with in his previous years, he would not have bothered Canucks fans to the same degree; his on-ice play made him an even greater burden to the team, and his off-ice disturbance made him an unacceptable distraction. In those three years, he played on the team's top line and often benefited from playing with two more impactful linemates.

Keenan had decided to dismantle the team upon becoming the team's general manager. His feuds with Linden are certainly well-documented, and definitely played a role in Linden's removal from the team. He was previously considered the one player who would not be traded due to his importance to the team's culture, to the franchise, to the fans, and to the city. As soon as Keenan and Messier arrived, the dressing room became hostile and wholesale changes were made to remove the entire core of players.

Messier never made any effort or request to wear a different number despite the Maki family's plea. He was made fully aware of the situation. We have already documented his sense of entitlement during his time in Vancouver. He remained idle while everything else happened around him; the organization spoon-fed him anything he wanted. One has to wonder if the Keenan hiring was influenced by him, whether it be Quinn who felt Keenan could ignite a spark in Messier or if Messier wanted Keenan to coach.


So your theory is after 18 seasons in the NHL Messier decided it's time to start mailing it in. He said no more hitting, racking up tonnes of penalty minutes, and super long shifts (because that's what you want from a 36-40 year old Mark Messier). It's not possible that he physically had declined to the point that he couldn't play that way anymore and that the production decline he had the previous year in NY wasn't the beginning of a steep decline for Messier?

Why is Messier so hated? It's because some vocal Canucks fans blame Messier not only for his failures but for decisions of ownership, management, and coach's. Even the poor play of other players are blamed on Messier. No one else is accountable for their actions. Everyone gets a pass, Messier either did it or made someone else do do it.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,978
Brooklyn
So your theory is after 18 seasons in the NHL Messier decided it's time to start mailing it in. He said no more hitting, racking up tonnes of penalty minutes, and super long shifts (because that's what you want from a 36-40 year old Mark Messier). It's not possible that he physically had declined to the point that he couldn't play that way anymore and that the production decline he had the previous year in NY wasn't the beginning of a steep decline for Messier?

Why is Messier so hated? It's because some vocal Canucks fans blame Messier not only for his failures but for decisions of ownership, management, and coach's. Even the poor play of other players are blamed on Messier. No one else is accountable for their actions. Everyone gets a pass, Messier either did it or made someone else do do it.

I definitely found the criticism for taking shifts that were too short to be really strange.
 

tony d

Registered User
Jun 23, 2007
76,588
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Behind A Tree
Messier and the Canucks were just not a good fit. Guess Messier was set in his ways being a league veteran at that time and wasn't willing to change for the sake of the team.
 

David Bruce Banner

Nude Cabdriver Ban
Mar 25, 2008
7,940
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Streets Ahead
Long time Canucks fan... good work, jetsalternate. You hit most of the salient points.

Messier is easily my all time least favourite Canuck (followed by Randy Boyd, but that's another story).

I just want to add that, part of the galling factor about his time here was that he sucked so bad after having been so good. Up to then, Messier had made a career out of beating the Canucks in every way imaginable. A decade plus of *****-slapping us while he was with the Oilers, and then, when we had finally seen him shipped off to the Eastern conference, he came back and yanked our Stanley Cup away.

We'd spent 15 years cursing his name and wishing we had someone like him... and then we did... but we got old, complacent, entitled Messier instead. He even managed to beat us by joining us. :rant:
 

Big Phil

Registered User
Nov 2, 2003
31,703
4,140
I always thought that with Messier coming in it opened the door to get rid of Linden. We all know how loved Linden is in Vancouver at a Beliveau-type level. He's a saint in Vancouver. The most popular player in franchise history is moved out after Messier comes in. That wouldn't have sat well with me and to be honest I can remember something similar happening in Toronto. When Clark was traded for Sundin it gutted a lot of heart from Toronto. Not that we didn't love Sundin, but it took a while to warm up to him. Gilmour got the captaincy after Clark and then Gilmour moved out and Sundin took it afterwards. Not everyone was a fan of Sundin taking the captaincy after two of the most popular players in team history.

I think the difference is Sundin never had much of an ego and was very likable and we ended up liking him. But it is sort of the same context, no?
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,978
Brooklyn
I always thought that with Messier coming in it opened the door to get rid of Linden. We all know how loved Linden is in Vancouver at a Beliveau-type level. He's a saint in Vancouver. The most popular player in franchise history is moved out after Messier comes in. That wouldn't have sat well with me and to be honest I can remember something similar happening in Toronto. When Clark was traded for Sundin it gutted a lot of heart from Toronto. Not that we didn't love Sundin, but it took a while to warm up to him. Gilmour got the captaincy after Clark and then Gilmour moved out and Sundin took it afterwards. Not everyone was a fan of Sundin taking the captaincy after two of the most popular players in team history.

I think the difference is Sundin never had much of an ego and was very likable and we ended up liking him. But it is sort of the same context, no?

Sundin was also 23 years old and, while Messier was 36, so it's not exactly the same situation.

I get that trading fan favorites sucks, but from a purely cold hockey perspective, trading Linden for Bertuzzi and McCabe has to be considered a win for the Canucks, right?
 

Hardyvan123

tweet@HardyintheWack
Jul 4, 2010
17,552
24
Vancouver
I always thought that with Messier coming in it opened the door to get rid of Linden. We all know how loved Linden is in Vancouver at a Beliveau-type level. He's a saint in Vancouver. The most popular player in franchise history is moved out after Messier comes in. That wouldn't have sat well with me and to be honest I can remember something similar happening in Toronto. When Clark was traded for Sundin it gutted a lot of heart from Toronto. Not that we didn't love Sundin, but it took a while to warm up to him. Gilmour got the captaincy after Clark and then Gilmour moved out and Sundin took it afterwards. Not everyone was a fan of Sundin taking the captaincy after two of the most popular players in team history.

I think the difference is Sundin never had much of an ego and was very likable and we ended up liking him. But it is sort of the same context, no?

this was the biggest problem with the Mess here in Vancouver, his ego just wrecked an already poor situation.

Nevermind his play on the ice, he showed a total alck of leadership and commitment to the team, it was more like "Hey I'm a legend whorship me " attitude that Canuck fans didn't like and for good reaons.

The way Moose conducted himself in Vancouver wouldn't fly in any NHL city period.
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
28,564
15,909
I always thought that with Messier coming in it opened the door to get rid of Linden. We all know how loved Linden is in Vancouver at a Beliveau-type level. He's a saint in Vancouver. The most popular player in franchise history is moved out after Messier comes in. That wouldn't have sat well with me and to be honest I can remember something similar happening in Toronto. When Clark was traded for Sundin it gutted a lot of heart from Toronto. Not that we didn't love Sundin, but it took a while to warm up to him. Gilmour got the captaincy after Clark and then Gilmour moved out and Sundin took it afterwards. Not everyone was a fan of Sundin taking the captaincy after two of the most popular players in team history.

I think the difference is Sundin never had much of an ego and was very likable and we ended up liking him. But it is sort of the same context, no?

well, sundin didn't captain the evil big market jerks that beat your franchise's best and most beloved team ever.


Massive Canucks fan. Especially during that time.

Messier was not hated nor considered the worst Canuck of all time.

In most people's eyes around here, he just didn't work out.

Keenan, Burke, Nedved would go down as more disliked.

lies. completely and total lies. messier was at the time, continues to be, and will always be the most hated canuck of all time. in the eyes of the vast majority of canucks fans who remember those years, messier was satan x hitler x brad marchand. i was there, i heard many many unrepeatable things said about him in the stands.

Sundin was also 23 years old and, while Messier was 36, so it's not exactly the same situation.

I get that trading fan favorites sucks, but from a purely cold hockey perspective, trading Linden for Bertuzzi and McCabe has to be considered a win for the Canucks, right?

luongo and one of the sedins, plus we eventually got to cheer for trevor again in his last years anyway? yep, definite win.
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
28,564
15,909
and re: the quinn/gretzky debacle, which led to the messier debacle, here's a what-if: i never heard a rumour about this so i'm this was probably never in the plans. but one of the other big ticket free agents center the year we picked up messier was joe sakic. yes, local boy joe sakic. joe was on the market because pierre lacroix was jerking him around one year after giving forsberg huge dollars. the rangers gave sakic that $21 million offer sheet only after they lost messier to the canucks. messier's contract was $20 million over the same three years. nice one, pat quinn.


interestingly, given my last post, the five draft picks we would have lost: one of the sedins, nathan smith, r.j. umberger, the first round pick sent to washington for trevor linden (boyd gordon), ryan kesler.
 

Tsiruot

Registered User
Jan 30, 2013
13
1
It should be noted that Messier never made (let alone led his team to) the playoffs again even after leaving Vancouver. In his four years in New York, he couldn't bring a team consisting of guys like Leetch, Fleury, Bure, Jagr, Kovalev, Lindros, Nedved, Holik, Graves, Dvorak, Richter, Dunham, Poti, York, Rucinsky, Berard, Barnaby, Malakhov, Malhotra et al to the playoffs once.

The season immediately after Messier's departure, Vancouver makes the playoffs despite being led on a 75-point Naslund, a 56-point Andrew Cassels and whose #1 goalie for 35 games was Bob Essensa (Potvin played the other 35, with Cloutier coming in later). And yes, the NHL season after Messier's departure, New York makes the playoffs too, for several consecutive seasons.
 
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Bexlyspeed

Registered User
May 21, 2011
2,070
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Astoria, Queens, N.Y
thanks for that. there are things i forgot and a lot more that i learned from your post.

I was very excited when Trevor Linden Became an Islander, unfortunatly we were a (no pun intended) Mess at the time.
 

Sonny Lamateena

Registered User
Nov 2, 2004
1,261
14
Ottawa, Ontario
It should be noted that Messier never made (let alone led his team to) the playoffs again even after leaving Vancouver. In his four years in New York, he couldn't bring a team consisting of guys like Leetch, Fleury, Bure, Jagr, Kovalev, Lindros, Nedved, Holik, Graves, Dvorak, Richter, Dunham, Poti, York, Rucinsky, Berard, Barnaby, Malakhov, Malhotra et al to the playoffs once.

The season immediately after Messier's departure, Vancouver makes the playoffs despite being led on a 75-point Naslund, a 56-point Andrew Cassels and whose #1 goalie for 35 games was Bob Essensa (Potvin played the other 35, with Cloutier coming in later). And yes, the NHL season after Messier's departure, New York makes the playoffs too, for several consecutive seasons.

It should also be noted that Vancouver was coming off 3 straight years of declining results including missing the playoffs the season before Messier signed. Messier's last season in Vancouver (2000) the team had 83 points missing the playoffs by 4 points, it was the franchises best season since 1994.

In New York after going the conference finals with Messier in 1997 the team missed the playoffs every year Messier was in Vancouver.

Mark Messier had nothing to do with rise or fall of either team. Vancouver was on the way down before he got there and was on it's way back up with Messier on the team. New York became a perennial non playoff team before Messier returned. Both teams had major problems and had to be totally rebuilt, 36-44 year old Mark Messier wasn't either teams problem but he wasn't a solution either.
 

Jumptheshark

Rebooting myself
Oct 12, 2003
99,854
13,837
Somewhere on Uranus
Messier and the Canucks were just not a good fit. Guess Messier was set in his ways being a league veteran at that time and wasn't willing to change for the sake of the team.

were not a good fit and I think he walked into a dressing room where Linden had the respect of the players, coaches and FANS. It became obvious from the word go that Messier walked all over Linden because he had the rings. Fans saw that, liked and respected Linden took poorly to messier and it went down hill
 

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