Why isn't the OHL more popular?

[Raimu]

This is just speculaiton based on things I've seen happen in markets around the QMJHL, but -

Proximity to other hockey is a detriment, Leafs, Marlies, Hamilton until a few years ago. Junior hockey is different from NHL and AHL, fans need time to become educated. Junior hockey works in cycles, markets where fans understand this seem to do well.

The QMJHL has struggled with franchises in Montreal, and until the fall of the Nordiques, couldn't mantain a franchise in Quebec either. Proximity to an NHL team really seems to hurt the product, nobody cares about Junior hockey when you have a pro team playing out of the same building.

Then you have markets like St John's Newfoundland, the city had an AHL team for decades, so when they lost their AHL team, they tried their luck with a Junior franchise, and it floundered. Fans were used to the AHL and were never really givent the time to adjust to the junior game, the team never really attempted a proper build, and tried to be competitive as an expansion team. From what I understand the marketing wasn't great either so, unfortunately the Fog Devils never got off the ground.

The other problem I think is David Branch. He doesn't seem to be very forward thinking and runs the league like it's amature hour yet wants to present it as a viable alternative to pro hockey. I could go on a massive rant about how his rules designed to "help" small market teams are actually a massive handicap and only help teams like London make 4 trips to the Memorial Cup in 6 years. Even the optics of that look really bad to a casual fan, how are you supposed to think your team has a shot?

 

[OMG67]

This is just speculaiton based on things I've seen happen in markets around the QMJHL, but -

Proximity to other hockey is a detriment, Leafs, Marlies, Hamilton until a few years ago. Junior hockey is different from NHL and AHL, fans need time to become educated. Junior hockey works in cycles, markets where fans understand this seem to do well.

The QMJHL has struggled with franchises in Montreal, and until the fall of the Nordiques, couldn't mantain a franchise in Quebec either. Proximity to an NHL team really seems to hurt the product, nobody cares about Junior hockey when you have a pro team playing out of the same building.

Then you have markets like St John's Newfoundland, the city had an AHL team for decades, so when they lost their AHL team, they tried their luck with a Junior franchise, and it floundered. Fans were used to the AHL and were never really givent the time to adjust to the junior game, the team never really attempted a proper build, and tried to be competitive as an expansion team. From what I understand the marketing wasn't great either so, unfortunately the Fog Devils never got off the ground.

The other problem I think is David Branch. He doesn't seem to be very forward thinking and runs the league like it's amature hour yet wants to present it as a viable alternative to pro hockey. I could go on a massive rant about how his rules designed to "help" small market teams are actually a massive handicap and only help teams like London make 4 trips to the Memorial Cup in 6 years. Even the optics of that look really bad to a casual fan, how are you supposed to think your team has a shot?

I agree about the rules designed to help the smaller markets actually making it somewhat worse. IT basically gives players an open license to demand where they go if they are first round talent. The only real change is they are compensated better Gould a player not report so it means teams like London, for example, would not have the player fall to them in the draft as easily.

But, I disagree about the correlation with nhl hockey. I don’t think it is that easy. I think it is more “big city” related. Major Junior Hockey has a relation to community. The larger the centre, the less community oriented people are. As well, there are more distractions and competition for the entertainment dollar. So, it is much more difficult for those teams to manage to get a stranglehold on their fanbase.

Brampton and Mississauga are solid examples. They are simple bedroom communities for Toronto. It is difficult to get a diverse community attracted to that product and even more difficult to reach out to them.

On the flip side, what else is there to do in Owen Sound or Guelph? People in those two communities live and work in those communities. They are small enough that the team is more high profile.

The 67’s were the 1st or 2nd leading attendance in the OHL and 3rd overall for most of a decade with the Senators in their back yard. It wasn’t until the team had other issues pertaining to the redevelopment of their facility and the acquisition of the Red Blacks and the subsequent 2nd class treatment of their fans that created the mess they are in now. I believe Calgary was also a leading attendance in the WHL or close to it. That proves it isn’t NHL.

I firmly believe the Major Junior’s grass roots are based on community support. But that also means people have to support the community. The larger the population, the less of a chance of community identity and support. Pickering would be a similar base as OShawa from a population perspective and relatively similar geographically. The difference is Pickering is a bedroom community for those working in Toronto whereas OShawa isn’t or at least is much less. When discussing alternatives for a relocation or expansion, no one ever mentions Pickering and yet their population base and access to surrounding communities is vast. The reason for that is they would be marketedly similar to Mississauga and Brampton.

Major Junior Hockey is not necessarily made for bigger communities although some bigger communities make it work. The problem is the league itself is outgrowing their existing communities and is unable to tap into the larger ones. Its scalability is a huge negative. The financial aspects have outscaled its foundation of support.

 

[ohloutsider]

2 thoughts on this - agree with some posters there is a direct correlation between distance to pro sports and how a team is able to maintain a fan base - London is 1 1/2 to 2 hours to any major sports venue. West to Detroit or east to Toronto. They probably have 500,000 people within 1/2 hour drive to the Bud - they can draw 9000 a night being the only game in town. Windsor is 20 minutes to any type of sports team, they have around 350,000 within 1/2 of the WFCU center - they draw 3000 to 5000 a night depending on what else is going on in Detroit. Both teams are able to maintain enough support to be successful but Windsor does not draw the numbers compared to London.
2nd thought - Over the holidays my family were all in town and discussion arose over sports with the grand kids seems that some of them (grand kids) had never seen a pro-sport game on TV - ( never watched a hockey game OMG!) but it turns out all 3 clans of my extended family do not have regular TV - they draw their entertainment from sites like Netflix - so no sports. It occurred to me that many younger families are doing the same thing - the way people are watching TV now has changed - it shows a clear reason why sports are in decline. All but 1 of my grand kids take part in sports ( soccer) but none watch it on TV. They can tell you about movies or video games but no interest in pro sports teams. Sports in general are in decline and finding a way to reach the masses will become an issue as time and viewing habits change.

 

[OMG67]

2 thoughts on this - agree with some posters there is a direct correlation between distance to pro sports and how a team is able to maintain a fan base - London is 1 1/2 to 2 hours to any major sports venue. West to Detroit or east to Toronto. They probably have 500,000 people within 1/2 hour drive to the Bud - they can draw 9000 a night being the only game in town. Windsor is 20 minutes to any type of sports team, they have around 350,000 within 1/2 of the WFCU center - they draw 3000 to 5000 a night depending on what else is going on in Detroit. Both teams are able to maintain enough support to be successful but Windsor does not draw the numbers compared to London.
2nd thought - Over the holidays my family were all in town and discussion arose over sports with the grand kids seems that some of them (grand kids) had never seen a pro-sport game on TV - ( never watched a hockey game OMG!) but it turns out all 3 clans of my extended family do not have regular TV - they draw their entertainment from sites like Netflix - so no sports. It occurred to me that many younger families are doing the same thing - the way people are watching TV now has changed - it shows a clear reason why sports are in decline. All but 1 of my grand kids take part in sports ( soccer) but none watch it on TV. They can tell you about movies or video games but no interest in pro sports teams. Sports in general are in decline and finding a way to reach the masses will become an issue as time and viewing habits change.

Great point regarding non-traditional television coverage at home. That surly could have a devastating effect over time.

I still don’t buy the pro sports argument though. That arguement works in Toronto and Montreal but doesn’t work in Edmonton Calgary, Vancouver, and Ottawa. Even Detroit worked really well when they played at the Joe. It didn’t start to decline until the move to Plymouth. Hell, Ottawa has two teams supported fairly well overall if you also include Gatineau.

The reality is there is no real correlation between NHL markets and Major Junior Success. The areas that seem to have the most difficulty are the bedroom communities to Major Metropolitan cities. This is the case in Montreal area teams, Toronto area teams and Plymouth. The Jets have had no effect on Brandon. The reason why the Nordiques are being talked about so fondly is the support for their QMJHL team and new arena.

For every supposed argument put forth for the NHL, there are equal numbers of NHL or successful pro sports markets that flourish.

 

[GensLensBrandon]

OHL Attendance: Going or Growing?

 

[hockieguy]

Controversial, but I think that the OHL crack down on fighting has led to a less physical product. Physicality often results in increased tension in games which brings out more passion in fans. This is especially good for rivalries. The OHL of >10 years ago was far more intense for fans IMO. The product is still good, but it was once much better.

Absolutely agree with OSA. I was talking to several NHL scouts and these guys refer to the OHL as the "No Hit League". There is barely any contact at all, let alone a fight. Dave Branch has been doing a really fine job at taking away contact and making the game about special teams.....

 

[Otto]

Absolutely agree with OSA. I was talking to several NHL scouts and these guys refer to the OHL as the "No Hit League". There is barely any contact at all, let alone a fight. Dave Branch has been doing a really fine job at taking away contact and making the game about special teams.....

And yet the OHL continues to be the top feeder league for the NHL

 

[Ward Cornell]

Absolutely agree with OSA. I was talking to several NHL scouts and these guys refer to the OHL as the "No Hit League". There is barely any contact at all, let alone a fight. Dave Branch has been doing a really fine job at taking away contact and making the game about special teams.....

Just like the NHL then!

 

[hockieguy]

And yet the OHL continues to be the top feeder league for the NHL

Maybe so..... but many fans don't like it!

 

[Former Fan]

Get some feedback from the fans in the Sault who lined up to buy tickets yesterday and the people who tried to buy tickets on line only to find the rules how you buy a ticket changed overnight and you will find another reason the OHL is not more popular.

 

[bobber]

Maybe so..... but many fans don't like it!

Maybe so...but many fans do!

 

[Sec108]

be more popular??? how can it when alot of teams cant draft top talent when having the top draft picks when players wont report and want to pick the teams they will only report to.

Parents and players holding teams hostage leave a bad taste in your mouth as a fan.

Its all about the $$$$ and the fan is near the bottom of the list for this league, why would I go see this game Live anymore and pay the bucks.Branch has ruined this once great game all in the name of political correctness.The new rules to soften the game have turned off old fans for sure.They can shove it !!!!!

 

[three dog night]

Lower ticket prices