Why is Gretzky so underrated on HF?

[Riddum]

Not really.

Scoring rates didn't drop until the 1997-98 season. The DPE was more of a 00's thing than a 90's thing.

Granted, Lemieux was still a 1.4 PPG player during the DPE, which -with the exception of Jagr- was better than anything anybody else was doing, but way below his best.

Let me edit that for you:

"Granted, Lemieux was 36 years old, physically broken, coming out of a long hiatus, not to mention having battled cancer a few years earlier, and he still put up 1.4 ppg in the DPE."

 

[Machinehead]

Let me edit that for you:

"Granted, Lemieux was 36 years old, physically broken, coming out of a long hiatus, not to mention having battled cancer a few years earlier, and he still put up 1.4 ppg in the DPE."

That's a completely different narrative.

To say that a player who was averaging well over 2 PPG in his prime "did his damage" during clutch and grab hockey is false. Lemieux did his damage when the NHL was a lacrosse league just like Gretzky did.

 

[VainGretzky]

"It was so much easier to score back then."

Why weren't the other players in the league pacing him?

Stop with your silly factual logic

 

[hi]

"It was so much easier to score back then."

Why weren't the other players in the league pacing him?

Because the other players in the league were really bad

 

[Mbraunm]

Because the other players in the league were really bad

That is a huge oversimplification. Wow.

 

[Plural]

Gretzky’s numbers are from the 80’s, Lemieux did his damage in a clutch and grab 90’s era.

That's not the point.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Well, the other players of his time were shooting on the same goals and the players who play now are all shooting on modern goalies. Greatness is defined by transcendence. I'm not going to get too heavily into philosophy, but according to the German philosopher Nietzsche (who theorized the "Superman"), a truly superior individual is basically one who sets himself apart from his contemporaries and transcends the apparent limitations and boundaries of his time.

It depends on what the question is, really.

 

[MajorLeaf]

"It was so much easier to score back then."

Why weren't the other players in the league pacing him?

Because the other players in the league were really bad

If other players in the league were really bad then what is the excuse for this eras players when a 44 year old Jaromir Jagr in 2015-16 season scored 27 goals and 66 points then follows up at age 45 with 16 goals and 46 points?

I mean we are only talking about two to three years ago here when Jagr was still outscoring some current era players in his mid-40's.

To put this into perspective, Jagr at ages 26 to 27 (prime years) in 1997-98 put up 35 goals and 102 point in 77 games and then followed up in 1998-99 with 44 goals and 127 points in 81 games.

Wayne Gretzky at age 36 in 1997-98 put up 23 goals and 90 points in 82 games then in 1998-99 he scored 9 goals and 62 points in 70 games. (retirement year).

Jagr could play at an older age in today's NHL and was one of Gretzky's peers in the early to late 1990's. Gretzky would still excel in today's NHL if he was in his prime and would still have been able to break some records.

 

[oilexport]

Wayne was the greatest player by far to play the game. A true oiler to this day.

 

[Outofbodyinhungary]

He’s got all the skills and good genetics. The legendary Slavic genes are undefeated, can’t believe how poor Anglo-Saxon players have been.

 

[CauZuki]

So the Nickname “The Great One” is underrated?

Well it's not the greatest one....

 

[HuGo Sham]

millennial attention deficit disorder . the NHL was created 10 years ago

 

[Tuna Tatarrrrrr]

millennial attention deficit disorder . the NHL was created 10 years ago

This!

 

[Derg12]

If anything, it's much easier to play these days. For all the interference and hooks you get now(which isn't much compared to just 5 years ago), you'd consistently have guys holding onto the puck carrier and just being dragged behind them. That popular Forsberg highlight video is full it.

There's a reason so many smaller players are having success now. As good as these small guys are, they wouldn't be nearly that successful with 220lbs defenders literally holding onto them.


Karelin?

I can't say I know much about wrestling either but if the 887 wins and 2 losses record is accurate, that does sound like something that might be more impressive than Gretzky.

Aleksandr Karelin in wrestling, Efren Reyes in pool, Ronnie O'Sullivan in snooker, Michael Phelps in swimming, Michael Jordan... Usain Bolt, Lionel Messi....

Gretzky is pretty much that guy in hockey - just that dominant.

 

[hellstick]

I would love to see a prime Gretzky playing hockey in this league today. I'm sure he would still do well, but those numbers won't be nearly as impressive.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I would love to see a prime Gretzky playing hockey in this league today. I'm sure he would still do well, but those numbers won't be nearly as impressive.

Mario's game would translate better to today's NHL

 

[BRUINS since 1995]

Because Mario was better...

99 and 66 are THE most dominant players i have ever see play the game of hockey

 

[BRUINS since 1995]

I would love to see a prime Gretzky playing hockey in this league today. I'm sure he would still do well, but those numbers won't be nearly as impressive.

If it was possible, i would bet wupith you that you are wrong.

 

[Mbraunm]

Era adjusted stats indicated that in last year’s NHL (which is close enough statistically to this year), Gretzky would likely get 150-155 points. That is based on Gretzky’s career average and not his prime 10-12 years, nor his peak years.

Crazy.

 

[shtorm2005]

If other players in the league were really bad then what is the excuse for this eras players when a 44 year old Jaromir Jagr in 2015-16 season scored 27 goals and 66 points then follows up at age 45 with 16 goals and 46 points?

Nobody is saying these players wouldn't be good in modern era. It's just their numbers won't be unreachable like they are now. So it's pretty naive to admire 90+ goals season like if it happened last season.

 

[drewjenks]

Excellent post. I think you covered it all. People can make their arguments for Orr, Howe, Lemieux etc, but it’s total ignorance and lack of hockey watching IQ to downplay Gretzky like many on these forums do (outside the History of Hockey subsection of course).

Gretzky is the best ever no doubt.

My only knock on him is that the goalies were atrocious in that era.

Half his goals were off slappers as he crossed the blue line.

Those wouldn't go in today ... even with the better sticks.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Because the other players in the league were really bad

Yes, the goalies and players were worse back then, but it's not like anyone thinks Gretzky would score 92 goals and 215 points in today's NHL. Everyone unanimously agrees his stats are "inflated" due to the era he played in.

That said, he's still the best. He would absolutely lead the league in points in today's NHL, and by a decent margin. Eras overlap, and that overlapping is the proof needed to back up this claim.

97-98 was the 4th lowest scoring season in the modern era. Top goalies were guys like Hasek, Brodeur, Roy, etc... Top Dmen were Blake, Lidstrom, Pronger, Neidermayer, etc... Top forwards were Jagr, Selanne, Bure, Forsberg, a 36yr old Gretzky who finished 3rd in league scoring, etc... These are guys who were all-stars for years after Gretzky retired, and he was right up there with them. At age 36, Gretzky was well past his prime (like all players), so it's easy to make the connection that he would score more and dominate more had he been in his prime at that time (97-98). And since some of those guys also went on and competed alongside the top guys of today, you can conclude Gretzky would have also dominated now - even if it wouldn't be by stupid margins like before.

TL;DR - Gretzky is #1

 

[oilexport]

I would love to see a prime Gretzky playing hockey in this league today. I'm sure he would still do well, but those numbers won't be nearly as impressive.

He made everyone look stupid then, and he would now too.

 

[Strakanator]

The goalies in my Rec league are all better than the NHL goalies when Wayne played in the 80s. My Rec league goalies are not just better. They are way better. The top recreational goalie in my beer league would be the best NHL goalie in the 80s by 1000%. Watching goals being scored in the 80s is embarrassing.

 

[clydesdale line]

People are young.

It's like basketball. Lebron can't sniff Jordans jock all time, but all of these youngins call Lebron the GOAT lollll

Well said.