Karlsson not even getting a nomination in 15-16 was f***ing absurd. He was top 2 with Kane
It surprises me a little more that we haven’t seen a defenseman nominated more then not seeing one actually win it. It’s a thankless position and a lot of it is points bias.
Quinn Hughes will win one at least in the next 5 years.
Karlsson not even getting a nomination in 15-16 was f***ing absurd. He was top 2 with Kane
yea there has been a couple of very very good seasons for d-men out there that certainly would've atleast deserved nominations. Both Burns season 16-17 and that one from Karlsson 15-16. Pretty sure he was top 5 points that season as well if I remember it correctly?Karlsson not even getting a nomination in 15-16 was f***ing absurd. He was top 2 with Kane
Not sure how much advanced stats measures play away from the puck, but, there's thing Pronger was able to do that Hedman can't do now-a-days. Pronger was able to affect the game so much more because of how it was back then. All the can openers, and hooks to slow opposition down to allow his partner to get the puck out clean, if he wasn't doing it himself while evading forecheckers. Not saying Hedman couldn't do those things, just that he's not allowed. So if stats takes plays away from the puck into account Pronger may have an advantage over Hedman due to the amount he was allowed to impede. Lidstrom thrived in the same era as Pronger and affected the game away from the puck as much or more just with more subtlety, to give him his credit.I'd like to see some advanced metrics in a Hedman vs Pronger comparison...
I had a family member who played with him during those years. My dad and I watched 70+ games of the blues back then. Despite being pretty young I could tell what he was doing was astonishing. Perhaps more hardcore fans of the late 90's-early 00's Blues, and 2010's Hawks can weigh in more, but my dad always said Quenville played 5D heavily and sprinkled the 6th D in. Really riding the horse that he had. Pronger was out on the ice ALL THE TIME for the blues. If it wasn't him, it was MacInnis, or it was both. Those early 00's blues teams had deep forward groups, a d-core led by 2 legends, and... Roman Turek as the starter. What a waste.He was also playing more than 30 minutes a game...
Karlsson is definitely the closest we've seen since. I think he should've gotten more consideration that year. I get his defence wasn't all world, but the best defence is a good offence and no one produced more offence from the back end than him, or arguably played a bigger role in the entire team offense than him that year. Outside of the measurable points, how he was able to just take the puck out of trouble in his end and take it to gain the opponents zone, allowing his team to change/gain momentum which leads to a goal, etc, he was incredible then.Karlsson not even getting a nomination in 15-16 was f***ing absurd. He was top 2 with Kane
I agree, Pronger is the most dominant defenseman I have seen since I started watching hockey. There is no d-man in the last 25 years I would pick ahead of him.Pronger was just that dominant...
Lead the NHL in +/- twice in a 3 year stretch with St. Louis, and then went on to lead 3 different teams to the Finals in the span of 5 years
Lidstrom gets all the glory, but I think Pronger was the best Dman of his era
What is unheard of are those kind of totals with the kind of defensive game and physicality that Pronger brought. It's going to take that kind of well-rounded game for a D to win it again; Hedman should be getting some consideration at least.
Pronger was just that dominant...
Lead the NHL in +/- twice in a 3 year stretch with St. Louis, and then went on to lead 3 different teams to the Finals in the span of 5 years
Lidstrom gets all the glory, but I think Pronger was the best Dman of his era
Sound defensive play isn't as exciting as offense and thus doesn't resonate or stand out as much. The same reason why defensive defensemen aren't even in the Norris discussion, but offensive defensemen are.
Defensemen are expected to be elite at both ends of the ice to even be considered while forwards can be extremely one way players and still win. And even then, defensemen with strong offensive output are dinged for being on the same team as top offensive forwards when it comes to MVP.
Pronger may not have been as consistent as Lidstrom, but when he was on top of his game he was an absolute monster offensively, defensively, and physically. If that is the bar for a modern defensemen to win MVP, I can't see it happening anytime soon.
I guess since the 40s and the Norris was introduced. But as someone said goalies have won the Hart despite the Vezina.