Why don't the Habs sign many undrafted free agents from the NCAA?

[The Price is Right]

Like the Captain of the Habs?

I've been able to see all the MA teams (Boston College, Providence, Harvard, etc.) Man, we should really be drafting out of here more often.

We are going to hate Macavoy, probably sooner than later.

No Patches was drafted he was not a undrafted player... There is a big difference

 

[Prairie Habs]

There's a thread on the main board about whether or not Bozak is the best undrafted NCAA signing of the last 10 years (he's not, but he isn't THAT far away). Less guys slipping through the cracks nowadays, not much to choose from from. As mentioned, they also have to want to come here.

 

[montreal]

Any good NCAA UFA players left to sign ?

yes, plus there are some interesting players left but they are still playing so we'll see.

We sign them - just not the top ones.

Yann Danis, Lindgren and Brock Trotter were likely the top ones at the time. Danis was in the running for the Hobey Baker and a few teams were trying to sign him. He had a great Senior year at Brown. Trotter got kicked out of Denver so that likely hurt his value. Lindgren had a big year at SCSU and was one of the top goalies in the NCAA last year. (at the time I liked Alex Lyon more but so far Lindgren has been great)

 

[Sterling Archer]

It's just an impression... I mean do we really need stats for this one?

Penguins sign a few of them and it seems to work. Connor Sheary, Zach Aston-Reese, jury is still out on Thomas DiPauli.

When you play with the Pens you have a better shot of staying in the lineup and doing well with their supporting cast.

Montreals signed our share of NCAA players too. Just harder to stay on a Habs roster that doesn't have the same cap issues as a team like the Pens or Hawks have with a handful of players making all the bank and their need for cheap young talent to step right in.

I guess we're just in a different situation where we don't need the immidiate relief that some other teams do and don't have the same spots available.

 

[montreal]

One thing I have wondered is with the move to Laval, would they look more at FA's out of the Q, then the NCAA?

 

[QuebecPride]

One thing I have wondered is with the move to Laval, would they look more at FA's out of the Q, then the NCAA?

I doubt it.

 

[LePoche69]

1- The actual list of FA players signed by Habs from US colleges is pretty ok already.
2- We don't know if they tried or not to sign some of the other players got by other teams. You can't have them all.
3- The 50 contracts limit is a factor if the team plans to sign many of its actual prospect + retain some of the actual FA.

 

[habergeon]

One thing I have wondered is with the move to Laval, would they look more at FA's out of the Q, then the NCAA?

I think the answer to this is yes.

They have already increased their Quebec area scouting a lot in the last number of years, and I believe the organization stated it was a goal to get better in identifying and getting high quality Q prospects and they could improve in that area.

This isn't a French thing, as Toronto has taken the same approach with Ontario players. I'm sure Calgary, Edmonton place a premium on Westerners...Ottawa loves Ottawa / Gatineau players, etc. It just makes sense.

And I'm going to go waaaay back and look at both the Sherbrooke and Fredericton Canadiens. There was a premium placed on Quebec placed players as free agents, and we identified a lot FA players who turned out OK and played in the NHL (Stephane Lebeau...the Roberge brothers...lol....and Boullion too I believe). We drafted a lot more francophone players during that time period as well.

The results speak for themselves, as when we won the cup in 2003 we had 11 French players on the team, including Stephane Lebeau & Mario Roberge. I can't imagine that feeling as someone from Quebec, winning with the Canadiens. That's why I think teams target these guys as they grow up visualizing and wanting to be in that position, hoisting the cup with the red, which and blue on.

It makes sense to me. We should be drafting the best players out of Quebec if we can, and signing the best FA's out of there as well. And it can't hurt attendance in Laval either.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I think the answer to this is yes.

They have already increased their Quebec area scouting a lot in the last number of years, and I believe the organization stated it was a goal to get better in identifying and getting high quality Q prospects and they could improve in that area.

This isn't a French thing, as Toronto has taken the same approach with Ontario players. I'm sure Calgary, Edmonton place a premium on Westerners...Ottawa loves Ottawa / Gatineau players, etc. It just makes sense.

And I'm going to go waaaay back and look at both the Sherbrooke and Fredericton Canadiens. There was a premium placed on Quebec placed players as free agents, and we identified a lot FA players who turned out OK and played in the NHL (Stephane Lebeau...the Roberge brothers...lol....and Boullion too I believe). We drafted a lot more francophone players during that time period as well.

The results speak for themselves, as when we won the cup in 2003 we had 11 French players on the team, including Stephane Lebeau & Mario Roberge. I can't imagine that feeling as someone from Quebec, winning with the Canadiens. That's why I think teams target these guys as they grow up visualizing and wanting to be in that position, hoisting the cup with the red, which and blue on.

It makes sense to me. We should be drafting the best players out of Quebec if we can, and signing the best FA's out of there as well. And it can't hurt attendance in Laval either.

Everybody grows up wanting to win the Stanley Cup.

If the Habs want to increase their presence with Quebecois players, coaches and management, they should invest money in grass roots hockey, programs for coaches and managers. A program of excellence for Quebec born players. Otherwise, narrowing your focus to one region, which hasn't been producing great talent like it was back when the Habs were more represented by francophone players, is a competitive disadvantage. Which is being proven by the slew of bad coaches and GMs we have had for the past 20 years.

 

[FerrisRox]

Apart from Parisi, Lindgren, Carr and Johnston, I don't recall the Habs signing many free agents from the NCAA. Lindgren was a great signing though.

I mean, the Habs could use a Drake Caggiula, Zachary Aston-Reese (producing well in the AHL) or Mike Vecchione no? Even Tyler Kelleher could be an interesting signing given his offensive production... EDIT: just saw Kelleher is playing for the Milwaukee Admirals ATM.

I don't watch much NCAA hockey so maybe some guys could give some input on the situation?

So you open your post by disproving the question you are asking.

Odd.

 

[habergeon]

Everybody grows up wanting to win the Stanley Cup.

If the Habs want to increase their presence with Quebecois players, coaches and management, they should invest money in grass roots hockey, programs for coaches and managers. A program of excellence for Quebec born players. Otherwise, narrowing your focus to one region, which hasn't been producing great talent like it was back when the Habs were more represented by francophone players, is a competitive disadvantage. Which is being proven by the slew of bad coaches and GMs we have had for the past 20 years.

Maybe I didn't phrase that right, I meant wanting to win the cup as a member of Montreal and wearing the jersey, that's what I meant. Don Cherry (and I can't believe I'm going to paraphrase him ) had a rant on HNIC about the lack of Ontario born players on Toronto as being one of the major reasons behind their lack of success. You don't have the same kind of passion from players that grow up wanting to win the cup, wearing the jersey of the local team. Is it a coincidence that Toronto has a lot more Ontario guys on their roster and they are playing better? That's a bit of a reach, but maybe it's a small part of a bigger puzzle.

But you are right on the money on development, it's the key to developing local kids. It's been a while since I've been involved in any of that, but I know that Hockey NS, who has been very successful in developing QMJHL / NCAA players compared to their population, was basically run exactly the same as Hockey Canada late 90's onward. Attending a Hockey NS (or NB, PEI, etc) identification camp was the same as going to a junior evaluation. It put a lot of structure in place and a lot of money in coaching development as well. The results speak for themselves, great kids coming out of every province.

I'm not sure Quebec is taking the same approach, or if Hockey Canada is simply not putting the resource into a province that routinely only makes up a small percentage of the national rosters but has a high population. The Q is still a strong league, but you are right they are not developing NHL'ers like they used too.

 

[PecnoTrunk]

I think the answer to this is yes.

They have already increased their Quebec area scouting a lot in the last number of years, and I believe the organization stated it was a goal to get better in identifying and getting high quality Q prospects and they could improve in that area.

This isn't a French thing, as Toronto has taken the same approach with Ontario players. I'm sure Calgary, Edmonton place a premium on Westerners...Ottawa loves Ottawa / Gatineau players, etc. It just makes sense.

And I'm going to go waaaay back and look at both the Sherbrooke and Fredericton Canadiens. There was a premium placed on Quebec placed players as free agents, and we identified a lot FA players who turned out OK and played in the NHL (Stephane Lebeau...the Roberge brothers...lol....and Boullion too I believe). We drafted a lot more francophone players during that time period as well.

The results speak for themselves, as when we won the cup in 2003 we had 11 French players on the team, including Stephane Lebeau & Mario Roberge. I can't imagine that feeling as someone from Quebec, winning with the Canadiens. That's why I think teams target these guys as they grow up visualizing and wanting to be in that position, hoisting the cup with the red, which and blue on.

It makes sense to me. We should be drafting the best players out of Quebec if we can, and signing the best FA's out of there as well. And it can't hurt attendance in Laval either.

I 100000% agree with this

we should be looking hard and trying to draft and trade for quebec born players

Toronto does it - they look at players from toronto
Ottawa does it - they look at players from Ottawa/Ontario
Minnesota does it - they look at players from Minnesota
Western Canadian teams do it
Florida teams try to do it
Detroit


Why not quebec team ? some here say blah to that...mostly the english ....i am english...and i say DRAFT and SIGN from quebec IF YOU HAVE the chance...

those marginal American players who will NEVER become NHL stars or NHL players, why not replace them by marginal Quebec players...I never understood why we cant do that !!!!

 

[gunnerdom]

I 100000% agree with this

we should be looking hard and trying to draft and trade for quebec born players

Toronto does it - they look at players from toronto
Ottawa does it - they look at players from Ottawa/Ontario
Minnesota does it - they look at players from Minnesota
Western Canadian teams do it
Florida teams try to do it
Detroit


Why not quebec team ? some here say blah to that...mostly the english ....i am english...and i say DRAFT and SIGN from quebec IF YOU HAVE the chance...

those marginal American players who will NEVER become NHL stars or NHL players, why not replace them by marginal Quebec players...I never understood why we cant do that !!!!

You're also forgetting the fact that many Quebec players actually don't want to play in Montreal.

And Florida "tries" to do it? So you assume the Habs are not trying to get Quebec players?

Toronto have 3 players from the GTA.
Wild have 3 players from Minnesota
Calgary and Edmonton have 3 players each from Alberta.
Vancouver has 1 single player from British Columbia.
Red Wings have 4 players from Michigan.

We have 2 players from the Montreal area plus one from Ottawa. We traded Desharnais who was also from Montreal. So we're not any different than any other teams. Perception is a funny thing.

 

[hototogisu]

^ In fact it seems like we draft at least one Quebecois player in almost every draft. Simon Bourque, Daniel Audette, Zach Fucale, Jeremy Gregoire, Charles Hudon, Olivier Archambault, Louis Leblanc, Gabriel Dumont...

I would say the Canadiens try to draft from their backyard at least as much as, if not more than, any team in the league...

 

[gunnerdom]

^ In fact it seems like we draft at least one Quebecois player in almost every draft. Simon Bourque, Daniel Audette, Zach Fucale, Jeremy Gregoire, Charles Hudon, Olivier Archambault, Louis Leblanc, Gabriel Dumont...

I would say the Canadiens try to draft from their backyard at least as much as, if not more than, any team in the league...

Dude those are alternative facts!

Will Bitten is from Gloucester, which is a very french area of Ottawa.

I love how people throw out comments without looking it up first. Not talking about you, obviously.

 

[1909]

Dude those are alternative facts!

Will Bitten is from Gloucester, which is a very french area of Ottawa.

I love how people throw out comments without looking it up first. Not talking about you, obviously.

Bitten is fluently bilingual. His Mom is francophone.... Same as Toews who's Mom is born in Beauce, I think.. Too bad he is not the one playing in Montreal and with a little "C" on his upper left shoulder.

 

[FerrisRox]

Don Cherry (and I can't believe I'm going to paraphrase him ) had a rant on HNIC about the lack of Ontario born players on Toronto as being one of the major reasons behind their lack of success. You don't have the same kind of passion from players that grow up wanting to win the cup, wearing the jersey of the local team. Is it a coincidence that Toronto has a lot more Ontario guys on their roster and they are playing better?

Yes, its a coincidence. The Leafs are better because of a coach from Saskatchewan, a centre from Arizona, a winger from Sweden and a goalie from Denmark.

 

[deandebean]

I think the answer to this is yes.

They have already increased their Quebec area scouting a lot in the last number of years, and I believe the organization stated it was a goal to get better in identifying and getting high quality Q prospects and they could improve in that area.

This isn't a French thing, as Toronto has taken the same approach with Ontario players. I'm sure Calgary, Edmonton place a premium on Westerners...Ottawa loves Ottawa / Gatineau players, etc. It just makes sense.

And I'm going to go waaaay back and look at both the Sherbrooke and Fredericton Canadiens. There was a premium placed on Quebec placed players as free agents, and we identified a lot FA players who turned out OK and played in the NHL (Stephane Lebeau...the Roberge brothers...lol....and Boullion too I believe). We drafted a lot more francophone players during that time period as well.

The results speak for themselves, as when we won the cup in 2003 we had 11 French players on the team, including Stephane Lebeau & Mario Roberge. I can't imagine that feeling as someone from Quebec, winning with the Canadiens. That's why I think teams target these guys as they grow up visualizing and wanting to be in that position, hoisting the cup with the red, which and blue on.

It makes sense to me. We should be drafting the best players out of Quebec if we can, and signing the best FA's out of there as well. And it can't hurt attendance in Laval either.

Well, they haven't invested wisely. Or, as I believe it is, the Q scouts are mostly Marc's buddies (again). Or Mister Universe doesn't believe too much in drafting pure talent from the Q; he prefers the 'complete players' in the latter rounds. The Fortiers of this world.

If you believe this team has achieved in its objective of 'identifying and getting high quality' players, then your expectations were very low, my friend.

 

[deandebean]

^ In fact it seems like we draft at least one Quebecois player in almost every draft. Simon Bourque, Daniel Audette, Zach Fucale, Jeremy Gregoire, Charles Hudon, Olivier Archambault, Louis Leblanc, Gabriel Dumont...

I would say the Canadiens try to draft from their backyard at least as much as, if not more than, any team in the league...

I don't believe that to be true. In fact, we tend to pick the Q players in the latter rounds, instead of the higher rounds. Leblanc is the only one taken in the first round.

The Q scouts we have are not very good.

Tampa has picked better with the Q players; and not only the francos.

 

[hototogisu]

I don't believe that to be true. In fact, we tend to pick the Q players in the latter rounds, instead of the higher rounds. Leblanc is the only one taken in the first round.

The Q scouts we have are not very good.

Tampa has picked better with the Q players; and not only the francos.

Well now you're moving the goalposts, saying that we don't pick better players from the Q in general (not just francophones), and that we don't pick francophone players high enough. That wasn't the original argument.

So that becomes an issue of whether or not our scouting department is doing their job properly. Not an issue of whether or not we've doing our part to draft homegrown players.

 

[LastWordArmy]

^ In fact it seems like we draft at least one Quebecois player in almost every draft. Simon Bourque, Daniel Audette, Zach Fucale, Jeremy Gregoire, Charles Hudon, Olivier Archambault, Louis Leblanc, Gabriel Dumont...

I would say the Canadiens try to draft from their backyard at least as much as, if not more than, any team in the league...

Since 2003 (Timmins Hired)... No NHL team has made more picks out of the QMJHL than the Montreal Canadiens.

 

[groovejuice]

One thing I have wondered is with the move to Laval, would they look more at FA's out of the Q, then the NCAA?

That's hard to say. What they absolutely should do is improve the scouting in the Q in both quality and quantity.

Despite what far too many posters suggest, anyone who is a true Habs fan regardless of ethnicity or language, absolutely wants a greater homegrown presence on the ice.

You can't grow up having favourite players named Richard, Beliveau, Lafleur, Savard, Cournoyer, Turgeon and dozens more, and not always crave for more French heroes to root for.

 

[LastWordArmy]

That's hard to say. What they absolutely should do is improve the scouting in the Q in both quality and quantity.

Despite what far too many posters suggest, anyone who is a true Habs fan regardless of ethnicity or language, absolutely wants a greater homegrown presence on the ice.

You can't grow up having favourite players named Richard, Beliveau, Lafleur, Savard, Cournoyer, Turgeon and dozens more, and not always crave for more French heroes to root for.

I crave wins, and Stanley Cup parades. The name of the hero who delivers that, and what his heritage is, means nothing.

 

[montreal]

That's hard to say. What they absolutely should do is improve the scouting in the Q in both quality and quantity.

Despite what far too many posters suggest, anyone who is a true Habs fan regardless of ethnicity or language, absolutely wants a greater homegrown presence on the ice.

You can't grow up having favourite players named Richard, Beliveau, Lafleur, Savard, Cournoyer, Turgeon and dozens more, and not always crave for more French heroes to root for.

I was thinking more along the lines of looking to more FA's from the Q to sell more tickets in Laval. I know they have had trouble with past AHL teams selling tickets and had wondered if they would look to have more kids from the Q.

 

[groovejuice]

I crave wins, and Stanley Cup parades. The name of the hero who delivers that, and what his heritage is, means nothing.

It actually means a great deal in Montreal. I'd have thought that you, being a rather thoughtful poster, would understand that.