Why Doesn't John Carlson Get More Norris Love

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by Ovie's Neighbor, Oct 23, 2018.

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  1. Ovie's Neighbor

    Ovie's Neighbor Registered User

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    This guy is following up a spectacular year least year with another great start. Last year he led the league in points for a D-man, and anchored the Caps D to a cup win. This year he is right up there in points again and second in the league in minutes. I am curious, from other fans why do you think he isn't in the Norris talk.
     
  2. third man in

    third man in Registered User

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    Honestly I think last year he got some recognition especially in the cup run. If he leads the league in scoring this season I think he takes the Norris.
     
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  3. gtrower

    gtrower Registered User

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    Norris love usually lags a season or two behind. More of a "recent career" award than a season award. He had an argument to be a finalist last year, but the top 3 were pretty entrenched. Wouldn't surprise me to see him knock one of those guys out this year. He's picked up where he left off with 5G 8A through 8 games. 4 of those goals coming ES.

    (fixed up A/P error)
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  4. Carlzner

    Carlzner Registered User

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    He will this season. Easily better on defense than the other guys putting up the offensive numbers he is, and he is putting up insane points so far.

    Underrated passing & transition game as well.
     
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  5. Kuz

    Kuz Registered User

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    He has 5G 8A 13P to start the season in 8 games played. 5 of the points on ES and the points per game in front of Rielly. Doughty, Hedman and Karlsson havent had strong starts so far so it should be possible to at least be a finalist this year.
     
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  6. um

    um Registered User

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    One thing he has over Rielly is he actually plays 1D minutes. He's at 26 minutes and game and Rielly is around 21 minutes.
     
  7. DCRedhawk21

    DCRedhawk21 Registered User

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    He never really had an argument to be included in the conversation until last year and, as mentioned, this award tends to lag a year or two behind actual play.

    The biggest hurdles are the fact that he has a questionable reputation for defensive play (somewhat fair - Orlov/Niskanen take the toughest assignments) and he racks up a ton of his points on a PP that has been a points boon for the good offensive RD that have played on it. His contributions might be unfairly downplayed, but Backstrom and Ovi are the keys to making the PP work.

    The cup run will help for this year if he puts up another big offensive season.
     
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  8. marciiauzii

    marciiauzii Registered User

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    When Ovi shoots from one side, Kuz from the other - Carlson just needs to feed the puck. Nevermind Backstrom who can make plays on that PP and Oshie who is gonna do the dirty work. When the PP dies, his production dies.
     
  9. Duodenum

    Duodenum Registered User

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    Edler has Boeser on one side and Petersson on the other and can't seem find either :huh:

    (Edler has been good this season but he's out of place on the PP because the Canucks have nobody better).

    His 5 on 5 play is just as dynamic. Great skater with good vision and a solid one-timer.
     
  10. BillNy

    BillNy Registered User

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    Because defensemen points are highly variable and dependent on teammates/usage, and because he doesn't noticeable drive play. Looking purely at his Corsi/Corsi rel, I'm sure his raw Corsi would be better over the years if his partner hadn't always been Alzner or Orpik, who suck, and I'm sure his Corsi Rel would be better if not for the fact that like 75% of the time he's not on the ice, it's Matt Niskanen in his place (who rules). He's fine and whatever, but he's not Karlsson/Doughty/Subban by a long shot, and I'd honestly take Niskanen over him (and that's probably me valuing the Capitals defense more than most people, rather than less). (I understand that almost no voters think about the Corsis, but it's easily presentable evidence of what we can see on the ice.)
     
  11. trick9

    trick9 Registered User

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    He leads all D's in ES goals.

    Try again.
     
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  12. topshelf15

    topshelf15 Registered User

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    Not sure,he has always been a excellent top pair defender...Maybe this year he gets some love??
     
  13. Connor McConnor

    Connor McConnor Registered User

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    Because this is his first season, and it's only been 8 games, where he's actually looked like a Norris candidate. Unfortunately you don't win RS awards for playoff performances, as great as they were.

    He does look like a completely different player right now though, so much more confidence and playing a much better two way game.
     
  14. StoneHands

    StoneHands Registered User

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    Finishing 5th in voting isn't considered "in the Norris talk"?
     
  15. Filthy Dangles

    Filthy Dangles Registered User

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    Because he's not THAT good of a defenseman...
     
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  16. topshelf15

    topshelf15 Registered User

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    He was the number 1 defender on a cup team,I would say that would make him a very good defender
     
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  17. ESH

    ESH Registered User

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    He was 5th in Norris voting last year; he got lots of recognition for his season. If he puts up big points again this year he'll generate more votes again. I think he got more than enough recognition for his play last season. I see people claim that he's not very good defensively, but he's always seemed solid to me. Another big knock is his powerplay production. I'm sure playing on the Capitals' PP helps, but he's part of the reason why it's so good.

    He has great puck skills, and a rocket of a slapshot. He's also an underrated distributor in the offensive zone.

    For what it's worth I thought Niskanen was Washington's best defenseman in the playoffs last year.
     
  18. Filthy Dangles

    Filthy Dangles Registered User

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    He really wasn't. Matty Niskanen and Orlov pairing did the yeoman's work on defense. And Brian Dumolin was technically the 1D on a cup winning team the year prior.
     
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  19. Dr John Carlson

    Dr John Carlson Light is all over us

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    He's looked better to start this season than he has in a long time. Particularly his skating.
     
  20. Kamiccolo

    Kamiccolo Proud Leafs and Hurricanes fan

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    Babcock limits all of his players ice time like that.
     
  21. Demandedace

    Demandedace Registered User

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    Carlson sometimes goes into Johnny Qualude mode where he looks like a total stoner bro that doesn't care haha. When he is really going 100% he's pretty impressive both offensively and defensively, but those lapses tend to stick out at times
     
  22. gtrower

    gtrower Registered User

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    Well that’s just not true. Fun fact - through 8 games, Carlson has more ES goals than any skater on the Rangers.

    And people love to say that Carlson has it easy with Ovi and company on the PP. And it does have merit. But let us not forget watching Shattenkirk fumble around running QB for the Caps two years ago. There’s still skill involved in serving it up in Ovis wheelhouse.
     
  23. Machinehead

    Machinehead Ferrari Crew

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    He puts up terrible defensive metrics despite facing pretty soft competition.

    He's an offense/PP specialist.
     
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  24. Trade

    Trade Guentzel is ELITE Sponsor

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    Came here to say this.

    He’s a great PP player and has a good shot from the point. He’s also perfected the dish to Ovi.

    Defensively he leaves a lot to be desired, he’s not even top 3 on the defense when we’re talking about actual defensive skill, awareness, etc.
     
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  25. marciiauzii

    marciiauzii Registered User

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    Never said he's not skilled. I said he fits where he is, obvious chemistry with that PP squad. Also those ES goals you talk about? last 3 goals were from very good feeds, he didn't have to do much. Playing against Rangers, Canucks and Panthers are not a great achievement this season. Let's see how long can he go with this kinda rate. He will come down to earth - also playing huge minutes helps.
     

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