Why do you want to get rid of Emelin (if you do)?

[mustardnight*]

Gorges does not have Emelin's size and strength. He doesn't; he cannot move players, he's stuck trying to block a shot that developed because he couldn't get the puck away. gorges is not a plus on the habs, Emelin is.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

He can play there in the sense that anybody can put on skates and stick to the left side of the ice while subban does everything else. Gorges doesn't weigh subban down. Emelin would. If you can't see how one is far superior defensively, I can't help you.

...you're mostly right...Gorges does weigh Subban down offensively cuz he treats the puck like a live grenade, but he's a rock defensively...Emelin has offensive ability, which takes a bit of pressure off of Subban to do it all, but he's nowhere near the defensive player Gorges is...

 

[Cole Caulifield]

He can play there in the sense that anybody can put on skates and stick to the left side of the ice while subban does everything else. Gorges doesn't weigh subban down. Emelin would. If you can't see how one is far superior defensively, I can't help you.

I think it's laughable that you think there's that much of a difference between Gorges and Emelin. Even if you purely base it on their play from last season and 100% discount actual skills, and do not account for the situation Emelin was in... even despite all of that.. there's really not much of a difference between the two, one way or another.

But definitely going to bump this thread next year when Emelin proves you wrong.

 

[sheed36]

I want the Habs to keep him. Ray Ferarro said during the season that players who had injuries like Emelin's usually don't get back to normal until the 2nd year after they come back from that injury. I'd like the Habs to atleast keep him for this season to see if he can rebound.

 

[calder candidate]

I don't like his contract. It's one of the few decisions of MB that I have contested. At 3.5 I would be ok. He had a "bad" year last year but that happens.

You are fine with 3.5M but not with 4.1M (I too was hoping for 3.5) but realistically considering that he was 27/28 when he signed, the income taxe in Quebec and what he would of gotten on the open market 4.1 a good deal... Nikitin got 4.5M... He came back for a knee injury and even with a avg. season playing on is wrong side he was still one of our top 4 and probably would be on most NHL team...
Also Minimum wage in the NHL is like 450K so saving 600K doen't get you much.

MB made a lot of decisions that I have contested, this is propably one of is best move (did cost any asset) if you lose Emelin to free agency who take is place he would of had to over paid a worst player to take is spot...

 

[sandysan]

Emelin might be the best open ice hitter in the NHL. His timing and technique is really incredible. It's a lost art.

And if you disagree, please give me 5 names who are better open ice hitters.

You left out "have" because since the injury he'd way less physical.

He's physical in the brooks irpik mold where he will throw big hits that some would describe as predatory. He's not a battler and no one fears him in front of the net.

As for open ice hits, subban is likely better with his bionic butt. And unlike emelin if he misses he has the speed to get back in the play.

I think people see the battles he has with lucic and think that's the norm. It's not.

 

[Bieber fever]

3rd best dman on the roster and the most physical.


nop

 

[calder candidate]

I want the Habs to keep him. Ray Ferarro said during the season that players who had injuries like Emelin's usually don't get back to normal until the 2nd year after they come back from that injury. I'd like the Habs to atleast keep him for this season to see if he can rebound.

Even with super star trement I say it can 12 to 18 months of trainning to get back to 100%. that 3%-5% lacking in the first year that is the diference between a avg. NHL and a AHL.

 

[Dagistitsyn]

I'm pretty sure Emelin has a full NMC. Not that I want to trade him anyways.

 

[overlords]

I think it's laughable that you think there's that much of a difference between Gorges and Emelin. Even if you purely base it on their play from last season and 100% discount actual skills, and do not account for the situation Emelin was in... even despite all of that.. there's really not much of a difference between the two, one way or another.

But definitely going to bump this thread next year when Emelin proves you wrong.

I don't have to base it on last year. Emelin has never shown to be more than an average top 4 guy, while Gorges has displayed top end shut down ability. What's laughable is that I keep seeing these trade proposals where gorges and emelin are mentioned interchangeably. Trading Gorges and giving emelin his spot in the lineup would be catastrophic.

 

[Subnordi]

Don't trade Emelin. I just bought an Emelin shirt in March.

 

[calder candidate]

You left out "have" because since the injury he'd way less physical.

He's physical in the brooks irpik mold where he will throw big hits that some would describe as predatory. He's not a battler and no one fears him in front of the net.

As for open ice hits, subban is likely better with his bionic butt. And unlike emelin if he misses he has the speed to get back in the play.

I think people see the battles he has with lucic and think that's the norm. It's not.

Emelin hits are usually very clean, he was less Physical last (coming of a knee injury) even if is battle with Lucic aren't the norm but it a good sign that he will be back to a 100%, I don't know many D in the NHL that actually match up with Lucic shift after shift like Emelin.

 

[overlords]

Gorges does not have Emelin's size and strength. He doesn't; he cannot move players, he's stuck trying to block a shot that developed because he couldn't get the puck away. gorges is not a plus on the habs, Emelin is.

Except, you know, in the literal sense

 

[calder candidate]

Considering Age, skills, and contract Emelin is our second most valuable dman, trading would create a hole on D that could not be filled and it won't improve the team... Why would you want to trade him.

 

[Kriss E]

I don't have to base it on last year. Emelin has never shown to be more than an average top 4 guy, while Gorges has displayed top end shut down ability. What's laughable is that I keep seeing these trade proposals where gorges and emelin are mentioned interchangeably. Trading Gorges and giving emelin his spot in the lineup would be catastrophic.

I don't think it would change much if we use Emelin next to PK. It's not like he was being sheltered playing with Markov.
PK was able to make Bouillon look decent, so I'm sure Emelin would look better too. A huge helper imo would also be the fact he'd be playing on his natural side.

I'm not the biggest Emelin fan. I love his physicality, but I think he should be a bottom pairing guy. That might change if we actually start using him on the left. I was seeing some progress from him under Martin. Even Martin had tried him on the right but adjusted when he saw Emelin clearly struggled. Once Therrien came in, he just glued Emelin to Markov and I really don't understand why. Makes no sense. Oh but wait, they're russians, so they 100% have to play together.

 

[sandysan]

Emelin hits are usually very clean, he was less Physical last (coming of a knee injury) even if is battle with Lucic aren't the norm but it a good sign that he will be back to a 100%, I don't know many D in the NHL that actually match up with Lucic shift after shift like Emelin.

Yes he was less physical, the question is will it return. And "clean" has nothing to do with it, when he decides to try for big hits, it's usually when the other guy is somehow compromised. He's at best a selective hitter ( much like the aforementioned Orpik).

And his hitting May come back but the speed ( that he never had in excess) ain't. So now when he goes for the big hit, if he misses he's toast. If he keeps hitting we simply have to accept that if the hit goes south, he's not getting back into the play.

His lack of speed was exposed in the playoffs, it's going to get worse. If his lack of recovery speed means he hits less, a no hitting Emelin is no way close to a steady gorges who will continue to do what he's always done in the most predictable way.

It all stems on whether his hitting returns, if you think so that's a plus. If it doesn't he is nowhere near gorges.

 

[Kriss E]

I want the Habs to keep him. Ray Ferarro said during the season that players who had injuries like Emelin's usually don't get back to normal until the 2nd year after they come back from that injury. I'd like the Habs to atleast keep him for this season to see if he can rebound.

Yes, but that is disregarding the fact he was doing the same positional mistakes before his injury.

 

[Sorinth]

Unless he plays with subban or on the third pairing, he won't be playing his 'proper' side. [Playing him with subban would be suicide and the third pairing is no place for a 4m/year D. I think if people are expecting some great turnaround when he plays on the left that they'll be very, very disappointed when it eventually happens.

You'll have to explain to me why it's suicide. Markov-Emelin has been used as our "top" defensive pairing quite a bit over the past two seasons. Are you saying Markov is good enough to "carry" Emelin but Subban can't?

Last season Gorges faced the toughest competition for defenceman, 0.992 (Corsi Rel QoC), Emelin was 2nd with 0.869. And oddly enough Gorges had more offensive zone starts though both were quite low.

 

[FlyingKostitsyn]

I think he should be kept. I think a lot of people were angry because he made a few stupid plays in the playoffs and didn't have his best season. I have a feeling he's going to play better next year and become a real top4.

 

[habs03]

I don't think it would change much if we use Emelin next to PK. It's not like he was being sheltered playing with Markov.
PK was able to make Bouillon look decent, so I'm sure Emelin would look better too. A huge helper imo would also be the fact he'd be playing on his natural side.

I'm not the biggest Emelin fan. I love his physicality, but I think he should be a bottom pairing guy. That might change if we actually start using him on the left. I was seeing some progress from him under Martin. Even Martin had tried him on the right but adjusted when he saw Emelin clearly struggled. Once Therrien came in, he just glued Emelin to Markov and I really don't understand why. Makes no sense. Oh but wait, they're russians, so they 100% have to play together.

Emelin barely under Martin, and when he played both sides with Martin, On the left side only when we had 3 right handed shots in the line in Diaz, Weber and Subban. Whenever Weber would sit, it was always Emelin that played RD.

He played RD most of that year, with Kaberle for most of the season, and with Markov at the end when he came back from injury.

 

[overlords]

You'll have to explain to me why it's suicide. Markov-Emelin has been used as our "top" defensive pairing quite a bit over the past two seasons. Are you saying Markov is good enough to "carry" Emelin but Subban can't?

Last season Gorges faced the toughest competition for defenceman, 0.992 (Corsi Rel QoC), Emelin was 2nd with 0.869. And oddly enough Gorges had more offensive zone starts though both were quite low.

You might not want to get into an argument based in fancy stats if your goal is to argue emelin over gorges.

Emelin was carried by Markov. Yes, subban can 'carry' Emelin even more, but regardless, you don't want your #1 pairing having a guy who needs to be carried. Gorges is in another league than Emelin when it comes to shot/scoring chance prevention. It's not particularly close either, last time I checked.

If you really wanna have some fun on extra skater, though, start comparing diaz and emelin. Good stuff


edit: and for the record, I don't want to 'get rid of him'. I want to roll back time and force him to take a 2-2.5million/year contract like he's worth.

 

[habfaninvictoria]

I don't want to get rid of him... I want him to play with Subban on the LEFT side.

Emelin Subban
Markov Beaulieu
Tinordi Weaver
Pateryn

Done

Yes Gorges is traded

 

[Sorinth]

You might not want to get into an argument based in fancy stats if your goal is to argue emelin over gorges.

Emelin was carried by Markov. Yes, subban can 'carry' Emelin even more, but regardless, you don't want your #1 pairing having a guy who needs to be carried. Gorges is in another league than Emelin when it comes to shot/scoring chance prevention. It's not particularly close either, last time I checked.

If you really wanna have some fun on extra skater, though, start comparing diaz and emelin. Good stuff


edit: and for the record, I don't want to 'get rid of him'. I want to roll back time and force him to take a 2-2.5million/year contract like he's worth.

Like or not Emelin has been used on our first pairing quite a bit over the past couple of seasons. For whatever reason Therrien didn't trust Subban in that role and so Markov was used as our go to defenceman (And Emelin by consequence). The fancy stats back that up.

So if Emelin can be used in a first pairing role with Markov with some success why is it suicide for Emelin to play that role with Subban?

 

[ECWHSWI]

I think it's laughable that you think there's that much of a difference between Gorges and Emelin. Even if you purely base it on their play from last season and 100% discount actual skills, and do not account for the situation Emelin was in... even despite all of that.. there's really not much of a difference between the two, one way or another.

But definitely going to bump this thread next year when Emelin proves you wrong.

lets hope he practiced real hard and comes into camp a much much improved RD

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Because he is not all that great and makes good coin. I wouldn't actively shop him, but would look to upgrade that position...especially if Gorges sticks around. You can't have Gorges, Emelin in your top 2 pairings.