Why did the Caps Move on from McPhee?

[CupInSIX]

McPhee reminds me of Gainey. A respected hockey mind that had his reputation tarnished because they got desperate and made a very shortsighted move.

I don't think either men are deserving of scorn.

 

[g00n]

McPhee reminds me of Gainey. A respected hockey mind that had his reputation tarnished because they got desperate and made a very shortsighted move.

I don't think either men are deserving of scorn.

I wonder if you'll think the same thing in 15 years if you lose in the Finals this year and then never get past the 2nd round.

 

[CupInSIX]

I wonder if you'll think the same thing in 15 years if you lose in the Finals this year and then never get past the 2nd round.

now that's the kind of mentality the Knights need to have in the SCF tomorrow. I can't entertain such a pessimistic thought right now.

 

[Combat Koala]

Because he wasn't getting the job done with a team that look to be primed for making at least the Conference Finals for many years. Surely, that one trade was awful from the get go, and it was eventually the moment where you just had to look at him and say "goodbye and good luck". But it wasn't just about that. He was as inept as a GM can be. Before Kuznetsov they didn't have a good 1c-2c situation. Defense was trash for the most part. Depth was awful for the most part. He really never tried to push them over the top. He just stood sill with his team, doing pretty much nothing while Ovi and Bäckström were in their prime.

 

[Bieronymus Trotz]

Just to correct a few incorrect things that were said:

his big time additions were joe corvo, dennis wideman, eric belanger, curtis glencross and jason arnott. all who barely did anything

Glencross was acquired by MacLellan, in 2015. (McPhee also added Fedorov, Huet, Ribeiro, etc.)

pronger was rumored to cost carlson, alzner and varlamov fwiw

I'm pretty sure it was Varlamov and one of Carlson/Alzner. It may have even been one of Varlamov/Neuvirth and one of Carlson/Alzner. Plus a first-round pick, I think.

green and schultz arent defenders, they are forwards playing defense

Schultz is one of the least offensively inclined (and most offensively inept) defensemen they've ever had. He was the last guy in the league who could've been confused for a forward.

 

[John Price]

They missed the playoffs and Leonsis just cleaned house. Plus McPhee was detested by Caps fans in his later stages. People were like Y U NO MAKE DEALS AT DEADLINE and they were very negative towards him, especially when his teams continued to flounder in the playoffs and get eliminated by the likes of a #8 Hab seed. Just having the Caps miss the playoffs for the first time in forever was enough for Leonsis to fire McPhee and Oates and say "f*** it we're starting from scratch."

I will say though that I was wary of MacClellan as he was pretty much McPhee's lieutenant. MacClellan made a lot of huge moves that at the time didn't lead immediately to a title, but set the foundation. Acquisitions like Orpik and Niskanen helped shore up the team's defense, both are now mainstays of the organization.

 

[maacoshark]

Makes all the Gm's in league look like fools by drafting their discarded players and making Stanley Cups Finals with them in 1 year. Looks like a genius now.

Any moron could have drafted a decent team with what was made available. The draft rules were a joke. Each team should have been able to protect 2 or 3 more players. It would gave been closer to previous expansion drafts.

 

[Bluesguru]

Come on now, he sucked balls as the Caps' GM. Him building a contender right off the bat in Vegas doesn't mean he did great as the Caps' GM.

(7) Division Championships, (1) SC Finals appearance, (8) 40 or more win seasons, including a franchise record 121 points. Sounds impressive but I get your point.

Doug Armstrong has some pretty good numbers here in STL but I think he's mediocre at best. Numbers don't always tell the whole story.

 

[pezpunk]

because you can't GM a team for 14 straight ****ing years without getting past the 2nd round.

The only reason he hung on as long as he did was because the caps have the most beta owner in the league

"beta" is such an insanely stupid insult. it only makes the poster look like a fool.

 

[Bluesguru]

Any moron could have drafted a decent team with what was made available. The draft rules were a joke. Each team should have been able to protect 2 or 3 more players. It would gave been closer to previous expansion drafts.

I agree, the NHL gave way too much. When Minnesota had their expansion, teams got to protect 9 fwds and 5 defensemen. That's 4 more players. I don't see what the big deal was, lots of talent all over the world in hockey today. Vegas could of had a decent team anyway and they could of been on the 3 to 5 year plan just like every other team has to go thru. Total BS IMO.

 

[kmart]

the forsberg trade was only partly a fail by mcphee, as he was put into a win/win position... mcphee had only the option to improve/win now or lose and sign somewhere else... he didnt care what would happen with forsberg in either case. if dc would have won the cup he would look like a genius and if they would lose as they did in the second round against pit he knew another gm would have to worry with erat and he would be managing another team.

i dont know what leonsis profession is but he really blundered there. he dared mcphee to do something and he did.

Any moron could have drafted a decent team with what was made available. The draft rules were a joke. Each team should have been able to protect 2 or 3 more players. It would gave been closer to previous expansion drafts.

it should be clear by now that the nhl trys to avoid the route of previous expansions. rather start of with a bang than becoming a bottom team that eventually never gets going and becoming the trashers.

 

[TomDelonge]

"beta" is such an insanely stupid insult. it only makes the poster look like a fool.

Beta is a good way to describe a male who exhibits stereotypical passive and weak behaviors. What is a more appropriate word for this usage? Are you defensive because you have been called a beta?

GMGM was truly one of the worst GM's I have ever followed. Caps vs Pens and OV vs Crosby got me excited about the nhl like I never had been before, and it is truly GMGM fault that the caps couldn't get over the hump.

 

[stanleycaps18]

(7) Division Championships, (1) SC Finals appearance, (8) 40 or more win seasons, including a franchise record 121 points. Sounds impressive but I get your point.

Doug Armstrong has some pretty good numbers here in STL but I think he's mediocre at best. Numbers don't always tell the whole story.

The SC final team was, ironically, David Poile's composition.

 

[maacoshark]

the forsberg trade was only partly a fail by mcphee, as he was put into a win/win position... mcphee had only the option to improve/win now or lose and sign somewhere else... he didnt care what would happen with forsberg in either case. if dc would have won the cup he would look like a genius and if they would lose as they did in the second round against pit he knew another gm would have to worry with erat and he would be managing another team.

i dont know what leonsis profession is but he really blundered there. he dared mcphee to do something and he did.



it should be clear by now that the nhl trys to avoid the route of previous expansions. rather start of with a bang than becoming a bottom team that eventually never gets going and becoming the trashers.

The Thrashers never should have had a team. Hockey failed in Atlanta once before that.

 

[maacoshark]

Beta is a good way to describe a male who exhibits stereotypical passive and weak behaviors. What is a more appropriate word for this usage? Are you defensive because you have been called a beta?

GMGM was truly one of the worst GM's I have ever followed. Caps vs Pens and OV vs Crosby got me excited about the nhl like I never had been before, and it is truly GMGM fault that the caps couldn't get over the hump.

Beta is another term that is over used on these boards.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

He was more or less garbage as Caps GM. The three biggest flaws among dozens of them:

1. Refusal / inability to find a 2C. He thought Brooks Laich could be their Mike Richards -- true story.
2. Refusal / inability to ice an NHL defense. Refusing to pay up for Zdeno Chara so he could sign Brian Pothier comes to mind.
3. Insistence on hiring first time head coaches when it was clear his young core needed a veteran coach who had been there, done that.

McPhee was awful. Under any other owner besides Ted Leonsis, who is notorious for sticking with people for too long (see: Grunfeld, Ernie, Wizards GM), McPhee would have been shit canned years before he was finally let go. It took until Adam Oates almost tore the team apart at the seams that he was finally fired.

 

[koyvoo]

Intuition

 

[Revelation]

"beta" is such an insanely stupid insult. it only makes the poster look like a fool.

It's not an insult, it's an accurate description of his traits. Few owners are as deferential as Tedtalk Leonsis. If you perceive it as an insult because it hits close to home you probably have some issues you need to work out on your own time.

 

[Drake1588]

Very long tenure, disappointing results after his rookie season as a GM. Sometimes it's not that complicated. It's a results-oriented business and they went too long without securing satisfactory results in the eyes of ownership.

 

[third man in]

We like our team *wink*

 

[Revelation]

McPhee reminds me of Gainey. A respected hockey mind that had his reputation tarnished because they got desperate and made a very shortsighted move.

I don't think either men are deserving of scorn.

Imagine next year Vegas players largely regress to career norms. Say their D becomes a #2 (Schmidt), #3 (Miller), and then a bunch of 5-6s. That's Green, Poti, and all the caps D in the first 8 years of Ovechkin. Green is the only one who was able to stick in the league for more than a year after leaving the caps. Now imagine McPhee keeps going with these guys for the next 10 years without ever signing or trading for another top 4 D, with the only chance of getting one is Brannstrom or some future draft pick developing into one.

Next, imagine Marchessault/Karlsson/Smith continue being high end players, maybe even get better, but Haula regresses to a 3rd liner, Eakin to a mediocre 3rd liner, Perron leaves, they sign Neal but he's a ~30g-55p player, Tatar and the rest of the roster except for Tuch regress as well. Now imagine that you have Haula/Eakin be the 2C for the next 5 years until Glass takes it, with mediocre rentals like Sutter or super old ex stars like Thornton acquired to plug the hole for some deadlines until then. Your 2nd line gets dominated over and over in the playoffs despite Semin's (Neal's) best efforts because other teams have a clear center lane and nothing's done about it.

That's McPhee with the caps, content with having the same holes on the roster unplugged for a decade with the only hope of having it go away is someone like Kuznetsov, Orlov or Carlson completely blowing away their draft expectations years and years down the line. McLellan probably isn't nearly the hockey mind McPhee is (his drafting is much less impressive) but he's a lot more effective than McPhee was simply because he goes and gets a solid, if not perfect solution as soon as its needed, be it an esteemed veteran defensive D who can bark at the bench (Orpik) or established high end 2 way D (Niskanen), versatile gritty veteran top 6 winger (Oshie & Williams), 3C (Eller), high end PP defenseman coveted by division rivals (Shattenkirk), bargain basement mobile LD in his late 20s to stabilize D corps (Kempny). Only prospect's development McLellan really leaned on was Kuznetsov, all the other guys (Wilson, Burakovsky, Vrana, Djoos) are a complimentary nice bonus pushing the team over the top rather than absolute core players leaned on for carrying a major load.

 

[kmart]

The Thrashers never should have had a team. Hockey failed in Atlanta once before that.

so they would had a chance with the knights startup plan. its not perfect but still better than decades of bottom feeding, so far its the best expansion approach, do u dont agree with that ?

It's not an insult, it's an accurate description of his traits. Few owners are as deferential as Tedtalk Leonsis. If you perceive it as an insult because it hits close to home you probably have some issues you need to work out on your own time.

beta is a description but its not accurate at all... it can be used for anything, the poster who used this also wrote passive and weak which gives me way more information than this "accurate" word. i guess people think of extreme cases when they using it which are both negative and not accurate most of the time. by the way if u already can detect issues from a post like that, its u who are using it as an insult.

 

[Sam Spade]

Because he was a f***ing moron who thinks he is the smartest guy in the room.

I would bet my life it was McCrimmon, Craven and Conte who put that team together.

 

[Stephen]

18 years as gm and did nothing. got lucky in the draft with backstrom and ovechkin but could never add

He also drafted Green, Carlson, Holtby, Kuznetsov, Johansson, Orlov, Alzner, Varlamov, Semin, Alzner and basically every Caps impact player over the past 20 years.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

You gotta think that after twenty years and no progress that you gotta move on. Plus McPhee is not always good at trading unless he has a good advantage like in the expansion draft. The Erat trade was pretty brutal considering they gave up something that could've been ridiculously beneficial to Ovechkin and likely a better fit than TJ Oshie.

This final is probably the best thing that'll ever happen to George McPhee and even though he is very overrated this 100% means he has to win General Manager of the year. If he doesn't then I deem him a snub. The only way he wouldn't be in my books is if this final didn't happen, especially considering he was with an expansion team this year.