Why did the Caps Move on from McPhee?

[Hockeyholic]

Was the Erat Forsberg trade the straw that broke the camel's back? Missing the postseason? Overall underachieving?

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[hockeykicker]

18 years as gm and did nothing. got lucky in the draft with backstrom and ovechkin but could never add

his big time additions were joe corvo, dennis wideman, eric belanger, curtis glencross and jason arnott. all who barely did anything

they had tyler sloan, john erskine, jeff schultz, tom poti, a young john carlson and a young karl alzner, who was supposed to play defense? then instead of finding defensive defenders, he adds joe corvo and dennis wideman

 

[nhlfan9191]

That hurt but they weren’t having any post season success relative to regular season and he had been on for a long time. They had a good core they felt needed a new direction. Happens all the time in sports.

 

[3074326]

I don't know.

But everyone involved is very happy about it now.

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

I don't know.

But everyone involved is very happy about it now.

This.

This is the true outcome. Everyone involved being happy.
I'm happy. You're happy. Ovie's happy. It's all good, man.

 

[Carlzner]

He sucked

 

[Invictus12]

To be frank, I really think not giving up some futures for Pronger was a bad decision on his part. Pronger was definitely the time of player that would have tilted the ice for Washington. Couple of years later, he trades Forsberg for Erat, go figure. I would think he made too many knee-jerk reaction type moves and as a result, he got canned.

 

[Whale Mingo]

Can't fire all the players.

 

[hockeykicker]

To be frank, I really think not giving up some futures for Pronger was a bad decision on his part. Pronger was definitely the time of player that would have tilted the ice for Washington. Couple of years later, he trades Forsberg for Erat, go figure. I would think he made too many knee-jerk reaction type moves and as a result, he got canned.

pronger was rumored to cost carlson, alzner and varlamov fwiw

 

[Invictus12]

Given the condition that Pronger was in at the time of the trade, in comparison to how good Carlson, Alzner and Varlamov are at their best so far, not sure the trade is all that lopsided. A bit, sure and not by a mile IMO. Given the fact that none of those players were anywhere near as good at the time and Washington already having a great roster.... Even in hind-sight I think it was an opportunity missed.

 

[hockeykicker]

Given the condition that Pronger was in at the time of the trade, in comparison to how good Carlson, Alzner and Varlamov are at their best so far, not sure the trade is all that lopsided. A bit, sure and not by a mile IMO. Given the fact that none of those players were anywhere near as good at the time and Washington already having a great roster.... Even in hind-sight I think it was an opportunity missed.

im not really sure what your talking about. if they added pronger, the defense looks like this

Green-Schultz
Pronger-Poti/Sloan
Morrisonn-Erskine

mix and match if you want, green and schultz arent defenders, they are forwards playing defense. erskine was basically useless, poti was injured so tyler sloan was in

compare it to now:
niskanen-orlov
carlson-kempny
djoos-orpik

 

[Invictus12]

im not really sure what your talking about. if they added pronger, the defense looks like this

Green-Schultz
Pronger-Poti/Sloan
Morrisonn-Erskine

mix and match if you want, green and schultz arent defenders, they are forwards playing defense. erskine was basically useless, poti was injured so tyler sloan was in

compare it to now:
niskanen-orlov
carlson-kempny
djoos-orpik

McPhee, if I recall correctly (Correct me if I'm wrong) declined to trade for Pronger at the deadline going into 09 playoffs, no? They also had Fedorov playing on the back-end that year... If I'm correct, you seriously think he wouldn't be a huge boost vs the Penguins that year? I'm almost certain that Washington would have steamrolled Carolina the same way Pittsburgh did...

 

[hockeykicker]

McPhee, if I recall correctly (Correct me if I'm wrong) declined to trade for Pronger at the deadline going into 09 playoffs, no? They also had Fedorov playing on the back-end that year... If I'm correct, you seriously think he wouldn't be a huge boost vs the Penguins that year? I'm almost certain that Washington would have steamrolled Carolina the same way Pittsburgh did...

but your saying that pronger by himself would have made the defense better? cause we saw years of jeff schultz and mike green wayyyy out of position and not playing defense

 

[AZRoadRunner]

Was the Erat Forsberg trade the straw that broke the camel's back? Missing the postseason? Overall underachieving?

McPhee wasn't fired - technically. His contract wasn't renewed in 2014. I gave a somewhat lengthy reply to your question which you originally posed in the 'Nate Schmidt' discussion.

 

[Carlzner]

but your saying that pronger by himself would have made the defense better? cause we saw years of jeff schultz and mike green wayyyy out of position and not playing defense

Yeah dude, a HOF defenseman still playing close to the top of his game would have absolutely made that defense better. Not really sure what you're trying to argue.

He was dominant on Philly the next year's playoffs.

 

[Invictus12]

but your saying that pronger by himself would have made the defense better? cause we saw years of jeff schultz and mike green wayyyy out of position and not playing defense

Well it certainly was good enough to make it to the second round that year... Pronger was in many ways what Washington was missing. He isn't just simply a good defenseman. He's an all-around excellent player and a very physical one at that. Having him for 25 minutes on the ice certainly helps more than hurts. Especially in a 7 game series where he can and will where down the guy he's matched up against.

 

[third man in]

Posted this in the other McPhee thread.


Not being able to put the finishing touches on a perennial playoff team seems like a pretty big flaw. There was the constant rotation of mostly subpar 2nd line Centers. Federov, Brendan Morrison, Ribeiro, Grabovski, Laich and I'm sure I'm missing a few. 3rd line Center was even worse during McPhees time.


Defense was appalling. Mike Green was never given a good steady vet mentor to play with when he was coming up. Poti was decent for a couple years but was their 2nd best defenseman. Carlson and Alzner were solid after they developed but for a good 3 or 4 playoff runs it was Green and Poti and a bunch of discarded trash.


He also didn't seem to understand when he kept players like Semin, Green, Flash and Brouwer for too long. Mostly guys that more often then not looked like passengers in the playoffs but who still had trade value.


He made some good trades over the years as mentioned getting a first for Eminger was insane. He was always competent but something always seemed missing in his thought process.

 

[Tavares to Marner]

So that they could be in the Stanley Cup Finals today?

 

[Bluesguru]

He sucked

Makes all the Gm's in league look like fools by drafting their discarded players and making Stanley Cups Finals with them in 1 year. Looks like a genius now.

 

[Revelation]

because you can't GM a team for 14 straight f***ing years without getting past the 2nd round.

The only reason he hung on as long as he did was because the caps have the most beta owner in the league

 

[Revelation]

Makes all the Gm's in league look like fools by drafting their discarded players and making Stanley Cups Finals with them in 1 year. Looks like a genius now.

Anyone would have had to draft a player a team and would have largely drafted the same players since they were relying on analytics guys/assistants and making deals with teams who wanted to protect certain players and get rid of others, and those guys would have organically come together the same way. Put any other mid level player on Vegas, tell him he was unwanted and this is his chance to prove everyone wrong and create a legacy from scratch and he puts up a 30-30 season too. You think Deryk Engelland was a top 4 defenseman this whole time and no one else could figure out that he wasn't a 7D enforcer until he turned 36? No, he's riding an emotional cocktail just like most of the Vegas guys. Gallant was really the only really good move that was all him afaik.

His actual GMing was signing Shipachyov and the brutal Tatar trade.

 

[DeluzioN]

im not really sure what your talking about. if they added pronger, the defense looks like this

Green-Schultz
Pronger-Poti/Sloan
Morrisonn-Erskine

mix and match if you want, green and schultz arent defenders, they are forwards playing defense. erskine was basically useless, poti was injured so tyler sloan was in

compare it to now:
niskanen-orlov
carlson-kempny
djoos-orpik

It was Jeff Schultz not Justin Schultz ;P

 

[Armourboy]

Makes all the Gm's in league look like fools by drafting their discarded players and making Stanley Cups Finals with them in 1 year. Looks like a genius now.

This narrative has gotten old frankly, mainly because its BS. In the past teams basically only had to expose scraps to expansion teams, this go around some teams had to make some difficult choices. Nashville didnt want to get rid of James Neal, heck Poile even tried to work out a deal to keep him.

Now there are some teams that threw some guys away, but not every team was in that position. Vegas players may use that narrative as motivation, but this wasnt the expansions of the 90's where teams were dropping scraps and guys barely able to stay in the league.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Come on now, he sucked balls as the Caps' GM. Him building a contender right off the bat in Vegas doesn't mean he did great as the Caps' GM.

 

[g00n]

People forget the Huet trade. That's probably his high point as a Caps GM.

Other than that he was lucky to land his core players and couldn't build around them. Lucked into a Cup Finals team early in 1998.

Early career drafting was bad and things didn't improve until he relied on his staff more. Even then they neglected the defense for years and frequently had to dumpster dive for cast-off talent of a quality far below what he was handed in Vegas.

Ultimately, the Vegas expansion draft was McPhee's dream come true. Prior to the 2004 lockout he and Ted Leonsis talked endlessly about the new "cost certainty" of a salary cap that would force teams to jettison good players that could be had on the cheap. This was their rationale for selling off Caps talent and spending well below the Cap in Ovie's early years. They didn't account for two main factors, which were the changes to the CBA that would be inevitable when the owners again couldn't keep spending down, and the fact that other teams would be bidding for the same players no matter what. Now here we are 14 years later and McPhee FINALLY gets to vulture the entire league for cap casualties.

But the short answer is the Erat desperation trade and missing the playoffs.