Why did Sergei Fedorov lose his alternate captaincy?

[quoipourquoi]

Run around all you want but the deal was the same for both teams.

Whatever.

the deal was structured specifically to screw Detroit if they matched.

The Rangers structured their offer to make it difficult for Colorado to match.

Unless the definition of "screw" is specifically introducing a contract clause that pays a player differently for one team than it does for another, and specifically does not cover over-paying a star player by four times his value in one year because the other team doesn't have the money, subsequently contributing to elevated salaries and a lockout, I'm going to say that it was structured to screw the Avalanche.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Unless the definition of "screw" is specifically introducing a contract clause that pays a player differently for one team than it does for another, and specifically does not cover over-paying a star player by four times his value in one year because the other team doesn't have the money, subsequently contributing to elevated salaries and a lockout, I'm going to say that it was structured to screw the Avalanche.

There would not have been any point in making an offer sheet that was a piece of cake for them to match.. cause they would have matched it and you would have just wasted everyone's time.

The difference here is that Fedorov's deal was structured so that Detroit wasn't only matching the offer but paying out an extra 10 million dollars for about 40 games played that Carolina would not have had to pay.

I'm sorry you can't see that. Feds took home something like 28 million dollars that first year playing 20 regular season games and the playoffs. Sakic's screw you deal: 17 million first year either for the Avs or the Rangers.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Cause he went for the money.

that contract was a big bird flipping to the owners really..

Sakic's screw you deal: 17 million first year either for the Avs or the Rangers.

When you're paying your first-line center $4 million on a new contract because you're losing money and your second-line center signs a contract for $17 million, is he not going "for the money" and "bird flipping" as well? Fedorov's contract didn't make anyone break the piggy bank; everyone in Michigan just went to Little Caesar's more often to pay for it.

There was risk in the Carolina deal. Carolina/Detroit might have to pay the $12 million up front (making the Conference Finals) or they might have to pay it over six years. Either way, Fedorov was getting the money. Sakic's bonus was guaranteed up-front. To **** Colorado.

 

[quoipourquoi]

The article is no longer there, but the quote is still archived on HFBoards:

Simple math averages the deal out to $6.33 million per year, which wouldn't be unreasonable for the defending Stanley Cup-champion Red Wings to match. But the offer was set up in a way that should discourage that from happening.

Only $12 million of the $38 million total is Fedorov's base salary. The rest will be paid through bonuses -- $14 million up-front and $12 million in deferred payments over the next four years, beginning in 1998-99. Here's the catch: A clause in the contract states that Fedorov will receive the entire $12 million deferred bonus -- or whatever has yet to be paid -- in a lump sum if his team reaches the conference finals.

The Hurricanes (21-29-6) are unlikely to enjoy that kind of success any time soon. But the Red Wings (31-15-12) are Cup contenders again this season. And if the Red Wings were to match, Fedorov might be in position to take home $28 million by July 1 -- only $500,000 less than Detroit's entire payroll this season.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=14682110&postcount=2


Again... that's Fedorov making $16 million in 1998 with the possibility of making either an additional $12 million in 1998 or an additional $12 million over the course of the contract. He's getting paid the same amount either way... and less than Joe Sakic.

 

[BraveCanadian]

The article is no longer there, but the quote is still archived on HFBoards:



http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=14682110&postcount=2


Again... that's Fedorov making $16 million in 1998 with the possibility of making either an additional $12 million in 1998 or an additional $12 million over the course of the contract. He's getting paid the same amount either way... and less than Joe Sakic.

Yes, if we ignore the timing of the payments, sure.

And the fact that the owners had a well publicized spat going on at the time.

I stand by my point that the hold out and contract were the reason Feds lost his letter.

 

[quoipourquoi]

The difference here is that Fedorov's deal was structured so that Detroit wasn't only matching the offer but paying out an extra 10 million dollars for about 40 games played that Carolina would not have had to pay.

Yes, if we ignore the timing of the payments, sure.

Is there anything else that you didn't understand and would like to back-track on?

 

[BraveCanadian]

Is there anything else that you didn't understand and would like to back-track on?

I had initially forgotten that Carolina got to spread the payments out, cause you know, it was 15 years ago.

However, I did remember the contract was structured to make 99.9% sure it front loaded an already front loaded contract on Detroit rather than Carolina so.. the differentiation between the Fedorov and Sakic offer sheets is still there to me.

The fact still remains that Detroit had to pay an extra 10(9?) million dollars year one that Carolina would not have to pay.

You feel free to see it differently.

I know if I was in Mike Illitch's shoes I would be unthrilled.

 

[93LEAFS]

Sakic was the captain and still the #1 center of Colorado in 1999. Sakic's deal was structured in a way that was fair to the Avalanche as it had nothing close to the poison pill the Fedorov deal had. But i don't think you can really blame either guy, its not like they sat out and tried to re-negotiate an already signed deal like Bure and Yashin. Thankfully the CBA's since the season long lockout have eliminated those situations from happening again.

 

[jkrx]

Might be worth noticing that after the offer sheet debacle Fedorov fired his agent and gave his base salary to charity.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Might be worth noticing that after the offer sheet debacle Fedorov fired his agent and gave his base salary to charity.

That is worth noticing.. good on him.

 

[DFC]

I think there was more to it than just the contract. I'm definitely not a Fedorov fan, so you can take all of this with a grain of salt, but I very rarely missed Red Wings games during his time there.

There were definitely work ethic issues with Fedorov, effort issues, and there were times when he was clearly in Bowman's dog house. He'd give you a night where he looked like the best player in the league, and then three nights where he was on cruise control. I've also never seen a softer player, and the diving became an issue later on, to the point that I'm pretty sure the team had to address it with him (that's going from memory, which is a little fuzzy at this point, and I could be wrong). He was just frustrating to watch, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't a treat to coach either. All the talent in the world, but a headcase.

 

[Sentinel]

There were definitely work ethic issues with Fedorov, effort issues, and there were times when he was clearly in Bowman's dog house. He'd give you a night where he looked like the best player in the league, and then three nights where he was on cruise control. I've also never seen a softer player, and the diving became an issue later on, to the point that I'm pretty sure the team had to address it with him (that's going from memory, which is a little fuzzy at this point, and I could be wrong). He was just frustrating to watch, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't a treat to coach either. All the talent in the world, but a headcase.

I don't remember him EVER diving. But I could be biased.

He was in the Bowman's doghouse a lot, but ultimately, I can't think of a man who sacrificed more for team's success. Yzerman did the same thing, but he was on the decline already. Fedorov's entire prime fell squarely in the Bowman's team defense system. There's no doubt in my mind that he would be a perennial Art Ross contender on many other teams. How would Lemieux feel if put on the third / blue line? But ultimately it brought the Cups.

 

[DFC]

I don't remember him EVER diving. But I could be biased.

He was in the Bowman's doghouse a lot, but ultimately, I can't think of a man who sacrificed more for team's success. Yzerman did the same thing, but he was on the decline already. Fedorov's entire prime fell squarely in the Bowman's team defense system. There's no doubt in my mind that he would be a perennial Art Ross contender on many other teams. How would Lemieux feel if put on the third / blue line? But ultimately it brought the Cups.

Bowman rolled his lines, so Fedorov was still getting about 20 minutes per night, if my memory is correct. But he had the talent to outplay everyone on the team, and yet he didn't. I wish I could find the quote, but I can't so you can choose not to believe me, where Bowman said he put Fedorov on the blueline because he wasn't getting it done up front.

History is very skewed on what this guy was, because his A-game was so good. We just rarely saw it. So there are plenty of highlight reels dedicated to Fedorov and that's what we remember. It was always more about what he could do than what he actually did. He was a very good player, but his main value was in the defensive end, on nights he chose to be valuable. And he was very valuable there, don't get me wrong. Offensively he was about a 65 point guy, and I don't think people realize that.

ADD: I should also note that I have no arguments about Fedorov in about 93-96. He was a great, great player in those years. Which made the years that followed all the more frustrating.