Why did Bossy break down so quickly?

[RECsGuy*]

How did a guy who scored 658 goals in 881 games (0.75 goals per game; ) not get Gretzky's hands-off/bodyguard treatment? Did Bossy simply play a more courageous style than the Great One, thus bringing the beating upon himself? Was it worth it? Should he have changed his style?

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[Nalyd Psycho]

Gretzky's hands-off treatment is a myth. His amazing hockey sense and quick first step made him one of the hardest to hit players ever.

Bossy did go hard to the net and take a beating. As a smaller player, that certainly is a risky task and the price was paid.

Was it worth it? Four Stanley Cups should answer that.

 

[brianscot]

Changing his style wouldn't really be an option. With Bossy, it would be like tellling Sandy Koufax to stop throwing his curveball because it hurt his elbow.

It just wouldn't happen.

Bossy wasn't really small, he was average sized for his era. But as as Psycho points out, Gretzky was slippery.

Bossy was a predominantly straight ahead skater who because he wasn't Guy Lafleur or Gilbert Perreault, had to work for position rather than overwhelm with speed and jukes.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Bossy / Gretzky

Gretzky's hands-off treatment is a myth. His amazing hockey sense and quick first step made him one of the hardest to hit players ever.

Bossy did go hard to the net and take a beating. As a smaller player, that certainly is a risky task and the price was paid.

Was it worth it? Four Stanley Cups should answer that.

Physically both were almost identical, maybe a fraction of an inch and a couple of pounds +/-.

Both were fairly hard to hit cleanly but they did get hit. In the Trottier thread there is a video of Gretzky being nailed by Trottier, McCreary a rookie Toronto defenceman nailed him at the blueline and others did catch him at times.

Both Bossy and Gretzky suffered back injuries. Bossy's ended his career very quickly while Gretzky's was such that he continued with managable pain. Nature of back injuries.

 

[Tra La La]

They used to get away with a ton of cross checking,it took a toll on Bossy's back. The best pure goal scorer I ever saw. If there were ten seconds left,and I needed one guy to get a shot? Bossy.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Physically both were almost identical, maybe a fraction of an inch and a couple of pounds +/-.

Both were fairly hard to hit cleanly but they did get hit. In the Trottier thread there is a video of Gretzky being nailed by Trottier, McCreary a rookie Toronto defenceman nailed him at the blueline and others did catch him at times.

Both Bossy and Gretzky suffered back injuries. Bossy's ended his career very quickly while Gretzky's was such that he continued with managable pain. Nature of back injuries.

From what I've seen, most hits on Gretzky were clean open ice hits where his skates didn't leave the ice by much, ie, easier to recover from if you keep your head up, which was never a problem for Gretzky.

That said, when Suter did hit Gretzky with a cheap hard hit, it did effectively end his goal scoring dominance. He was never a top goal scorer after that point, but, his playmaking was still the greatest ever.

 

[Axxellien]

Players get injured, it`s just a fact of life...Some savvy forwards would avoid getting hit by fancy moves, constant fluid motion & intelligent positioning....But sooner or later...The limited confines of the ice surface.... I always preferred the larger Euro. rinks in that sense...more room to move & maneuver!!

 

[Pear Juice]

It's interesting to reflect on Bossy's retirement. Very few hockey players have retired right in the middle of their primes, another one that comes to mind is Ken Dryden, albeit for a different reason. The interesting part is not that Bossy's prime was for his entire career, but that it was for 9 years. Few stars had as short a career as Bossy, but also, very few stars had as long a continuous prime as Bossy. Wayne Gretzky

How would we view him had he continued to play despite his hurting back, scoring significantly less, perhaps earning another Cup as a complimentary player on a different team à la Trottier?

 

[lextune]

Every possible aspect of the 'protection' myth is discussed/debated/argued here:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=528494

Read the whole thread and decide for yourself

As for Bossy, he play a totally different game, and went places for goals that Gretz simply would never have the nerve to go. I have always assumed that if Mike was never injured and played out a normal career he would have finished second all-time in goals.

 

[mooseOAK*]

This may be classified as sacrilegious but maybe Bossy just didn't want to work harder in order to keep playing.

 

[Big Phil]

Bossy did have Clark Gillies on his line for the most part. Not saying he didnt take a beating but it was more because he went where angels would never tread. No one hit Bossy from behind or laid him out with a hard cheap shot because of Gillies.

I mean look at Orr with his knees. As tough of a customer as he was, sometimes even the toughest have to bow out

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

It's interesting to reflect on Bossy's retirement. Very few hockey players have retired right in the middle of their primes, another one that comes to mind is Ken Dryden, albeit for a different reason. The interesting part is not that Bossy's prime was for his entire career, but that it was for 9 years. Few stars had as short a career as Bossy, but also, very few stars had as long a continuous prime as Bossy. Wayne Gretzky

How would we view him had he continued to play despite his hurting back, scoring significantly less, perhaps earning another Cup as a complimentary player on a different team à la Trottier?

To continue playing and winning would've tarnished his legacy.
Cups are merely the product of being on a good team, points per game and goals per game are the true measure of a player.

Like others have echoed, some players are affected differently by injuries than others. Bossy went into tougher areas to score and once he started getting he hurt he lost some of that effectiveness. Gretzky was able to change his game to stay on the perimeter and stay the supreme playmaker.

 

[Trottier]

This may be classified as sacrilegious but maybe Bossy just didn't want to work harder in order to keep playing.

It's not sacreligious. But it is baseless.

The guy could not bend over at the waist on skates by the time his career was finished.

One recalls the spring of '87, Isles v. Caps playoff series. Bossy is checked in offensive corner, play moves up the opposite direction and #22 is on his knees, unable to lift himself up.

Just me, but I never try to judge the pain threshold of another man.

***

As for the "protection" issue: In Bossy's rookie year, Denis Polonich, Wings instigator, jumped Bossy at the start of the game at Olympic arena. Clark Gillies proceeded to destroy the much smaller Polonich, as well as multiple teammates of his that evening. Fast forward a couple of years. Ed Hospodar of NYR crosschecks Bossy. Mike scores on the ensuring PP and skates toward the penalty box where Hospodar is exiting and talks smack. But retribution against Hospodar does not end there. Next season, Gillies gets a hold of Hospodar...and proceeds to break his jaw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0_3oosIHZY

Memories run long in the NHL.

Point being, the NHL of those times was such that if you were dirty with the other team's top players, you were going to pay. That said, officiating, generally speaking, allowed more contact (both legal and illegal) in the high traffic areas, compared to today.

Not saying it was a tougher, or more physical game, but you certainly could get away with more and longer.

Hence, Bossy paid the price.

 

[Ward Cornell]

Didn't Bossy come into the NHL with a suspect back?
(just going my memory but it could be wrong)

 

[Darth Milbury]

It's not sacreligious. But it is baseless.

The guy could not bend over at the waist on skates by the time his career was finished.
.

Baseless? Your response was displomatic, but the above posters' comment was flat-out ignorant. You can knock Bossy for his lack of grit and one-dimensional play (at least early in his career) but not his drive or energy level. Bossy was one of the hardest workers on the Island. And, he never back down, and played through the pain to get the puck in the net.

Bossy suffered a lower back injury. He didn't "break down" because of lack of hard work, etc. It was a simply freak injury, like Orr's knee. Happens in all professional sports.

 

[Darth Milbury]

Bossy did have Clark Gillies on his line for the most part. Not saying he didnt take a beating but it was more because he went where angels would never tread. No one hit Bossy from behind or laid him out with a hard cheap shot because of Gillies.

I mean look at Orr with his knees. As tough of a customer as he was, sometimes even the toughest have to bow out

Jethro and Bossy did not play together for that long. By the cup years, Gillies played with the Sutter brothers. Trottier and Bossy had an assortment of winger, including John Tonelli, Greg Gilbert, and Bob Bourne.

 

[Darth Milbury]

It's interesting to reflect on Bossy's retirement. Very few hockey players have retired right in the middle of their primes, another one that comes to mind is Ken Dryden, albeit for a different reason. The interesting part is not that Bossy's prime was for his entire career, but that it was for 9 years. Few stars had as short a career as Bossy, but also, very few stars had as long a continuous prime as Bossy. Wayne Gretzky

How would we view him had he continued to play despite his hurting back, scoring significantly less, perhaps earning another Cup as a complimentary player on a different team à la Trottier?

He physically was not able to play. He could barely stand when he retired. I got to talk to him after a game one night and he looked like the spinal cord injury patients I went on to work with later in my own life.

 

[Darth Milbury]

Didn't Bossy come into the NHL with a suspect back?
(just going my memory but it could be wrong)

Nope.

You should read the book "Boss." He discusses all of this.

 

[mooseOAK*]

It's not sacreligious. But it is baseless.

The guy could not bend over at the waist on skates by the time his career was finished.

One recalls the spring of '87, Isles v. Caps playoff series. Bossy is checked in offensive corner, play moves up the opposite direction and #22 is on his knees, unable to lift himself up.

Just me, but I never judge the threshold of a man's pain that I am unable to experience myself.

Back problems aren't uncommon among hockey players over 30 who have played a lot of games and a lot of players work through them so it isn't baseless at all. Players have surgery on their back and return to play so without knowing the specifics that option is still out there.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Back problems aren't uncommon among hockey players over 30 who have played a lot of games and a lot of players work through them so it isn't baseless at all. Players have surgery on their back and return to play so without knowing the specifics that option is still out there.

The back is very big. There are a lot of different back injuries. Any doctor will tell you that back injuries can be severely debilitating.

If Bossy had continued playing, he very well could have ended up in a wheelchair.

 

[MS]

Back problems aren't uncommon among hockey players over 30 who have played a lot of games and a lot of players work through them so it isn't baseless at all. Players have surgery on their back and return to play so without knowing the specifics that option is still out there.

Some back injuries are serious enough end careers prematurely.

Darcy Rota is a player who had his career end in similar fashion to Bossy. Was an All-Star in '83 and having another great season in '83-84 before suffering a major neck injury from a hard check. He returned for the playoffs, but then retired because he was told he risked paralysis if he continued playing.

Eric Daze is another guy whose career ended at a very young age due to back problems. Mike Ridley is another. Gary Roberts was physically done at 30 but made a miraculous recovery after 2 years off.

 

[mooseOAK*]

The back is very big. There are a lot of different back injuries. Any doctor will tell you that back injuries can be severely debilitating.

If Bossy had continued playing, he very well could have ended up in a wheelchair.

i don't profess to be a medical expert but someone with back problems as debilitating as I am being told can not spend their retirement golfing as Mike Bossy has with back injuries the number one health problem with that sport.

 

[Trottier]

i don't profess to be a medical expert but someone with back problems as debilitating as I am being told can not spend their retirement golfing as Mike Bossy has with back injuries the number one health problem with that sport.

You go right ahead with the baseless character assassination and innuendo.

Speaks nothing of Mike Bossy.

Speaks volumes of you.

Darth was correct. I was too diplomatic first time around.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

Back problems aren't uncommon among hockey players over 30 who have played a lot of games and a lot of players work through them so it isn't baseless at all. Players have surgery on their back and return to play so without knowing the specifics that option is still out there.

Lots of players rebound quickly from a concussion. Some get post concussion syndrome and can be out years. Perhaps they all didnt work hard enough.

Really, you can say the same thing about Bossy and his back for almost every player thats ever gotten injured in the history of the game. Yzerman played on one knee, why couldnt Orr? Etc etc.

Different players are affected differently by injuries.
Also just because two players have back injuries doesnt mean the severity is the same.

The proof is in Bossy's resume that he was more than willing to work hard and persevere through injury.

 

[MS]

i don't profess to be a medical expert but someone with back problems as debilitating as I am being told can not spend their retirement golfing as Mike Bossy has with back injuries the number one health problem with that sport.

From hockeydraftcentral.com

Bossy's Back Woes: Chronic back pain unofficially ended Bossy's career after the 1986-87 season, but it was more than a year before the Hall of Famer officially retired. The problem had surfaced during the N.Y. Islanders' training camp in September 1986. Bossy strained his lower back during a routine skating drill, and began to feel severe pain for the first time. That pain worsened over the next several months, causing him to miss several games and his chance to record a 10th straight 50-goal season. But Bossy had one year left on his contract, and he intended to remain in the NHL. Between his last game on May 2, 1987, and his official retirement on Oct. 24, 1988, Bossy went through a long ordeal in which he collected his $700,000 salary for 1987-88 while trying to solve his mysterious back problem. He was present at the N.Y. Islanders' 1987 training camp and denied all reports that he was going to retire, insisting at an Oct. 5, 1987, press conference that he would play at least one more season after an indefinite medical absence. On March 10, 1988, the Islanders held a Mike Bossy Night at the Nassau Coliseum. This gave him a chance to retire in style, but he was unwilling to do so. He tried every sort of back therapy, but none worked, and the Islanders were not prepared to offer him a new contract until he was ready to play. Bossy agreed that he would not sign an NHL contract for 1988-89 unless he was healthy. On July 1, 1988, after Bossy's contract expired, the Islanders offered him a 3-year personal services contract to remain with the organization until he was ready to play again. The offer, made to Bossy's agent, Pierre Lacroix, was insufficient, and Bossy refused to sign it. The media criticized Bossy for his stance until reporters learned just how little money was offered in the July 1 proposal. Although he became an unrestricted free agent, Bossy was hardly in demand. Only Los Angeles was willing to bring him into its 1988 training camp, but he said he could not attempt a comeback until the pain subsided. The pain continued until Bossy made his retirement official at age 31.

This source pretty clearly indicates that Bossy was determined to continue playing in the NHL until a point 18 months after he played his final NHL game. To claim that he made no efforts to recover and was willing to 'quietly retire' is an utterly false claim.

__________

The more interesting question would be how much Bossy's lifestyle contributed to his short career. He was a chainsmoker throughout his career, and in photos taken when he was in his late 40s he looked like he was pushing 70.