Speculation: Why buying out Samuelsson really makes sense

[Frk It]

Yeah, I don't disagree with any of that. And if everything breaks right, you've got Jarnkrok, Sheahan, and Ferraro grabbing full-time roles in 2014-15, with Jurco possibly seeing his first call-up.

Yeah we are finally making the transition to getting younger, and with some pretty good players to be excited about. Good time to be a Red Wings fan for sure!!!

 

[HTT3*]

If you honestly think that #37 is good enough to put the Wings over the top against Chicago

Just.one.point.to.advance

One point...... that is all.

 

[Peter Tosh]

The Samuelsson signing was a mistake from the beginning and would be an even bigger mistake if he takes a roster spot from Nyquist, Andersson or Tatar next season. His salery is already sunk cost and should not be considered in the buyout decision.

The same goes for Todd Bertuzzi, IMO. Give him a coaching job i GR or something.

 

[Henkka]

Okay, this Brendan Smith arbitration case opened a possibility for a regular buyout against Samuelsson.

"within the forty-eight (48) hour period beginning on the third day following the later of .... settlement of its last case"

So there's now five days to make a decision, should Sammy be bought out. (if Holland will want to buy him out and if Sammy has become healthy)

If this doesn't happen in five days, Sammy will be in team at next season.

 

[Laser Rayzor]

I'm kinda hoping they don't buy out Sammy, if he wants to claim he's not healthy they could just throw him on LTIR. If he's bought out it means we'll definitely being seeing Cleary back for 3 years (assuming a few more moves are made) and I'll take one year of Sammy (of which I think he'll spend most on LTIR) over 3 years of Cleary any day of the week.

 

[kuick]

So there's now five days to make a decision, should Sammy be bought out. (if Holland will want to buy him out and if Sammy has become healthy)

If this doesn't happen in five days, Sammy will be in team at next season.

Big IF.

That's been the only thing preventing this from day 1.

If we can't buy him out, something tells me he's headed to LTIR at the start of the season. I really doubt Sammy suits up for many games, if any.

 

[Henkka]

This would be your cap situation after a regular buyout.

1.0M for Andersson and 1.4M for Nyquist. Emmerton waived.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS

Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Stephen Weiss ($4.900m) / Daniel Alfredsson ($5.500m)
Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) / Joakim Andersson ($1.000m) / Gustav Nyquist ($1.400m)
Drew Miller ($1.350m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)

DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.775m) / Brendan Smith ($1.263m)
Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m) / Jakub Kindl ($2.400m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m)

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)

OTHER
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($1.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,132,045; BONUSES: $3,010,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,177,955

So there would be +1.1 million capspace. If we could save that space, half of the Alfredsson's bonuses would not transfer to 2014-15 season's cap. But Sammy's another buyout 1.0M would be there.

 

[Hendricks433]

This would be your cap situation after a regular buyout.

1.0M for Andersson and 1.4M for Nyquist. Emmerton waived.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS

Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Stephen Weiss ($4.900m) / Daniel Alfredsson ($5.500m)
Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) / Joakim Andersson ($1.000m) / Gustav Nyquist ($1.400m)
Drew Miller ($1.350m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)

DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.775m) / Brendan Smith ($1.263m)
Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m) / Jakub Kindl ($2.400m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m)

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)

OTHER
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($1.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,132,045; BONUSES: $3,010,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,177,955

So there would be +1.1 million capspace. If we could save that space, half of the Alfredsson's bonuses would not transfer to 2014-15 season's cap. But Sammy's another buyout 1.0M would be there.

Next year we have Quincey, E, Alfie, Eaves and Bert coming off the books. The good thing is on forwards we should be able to promote within and not have to sign any FA forwards as long as guys improve. So we will have a ton of cap space open up and need to sign 2 defenseman essentially. Ericsson if we want and another to take Q's spot. It would probably be best to sign a veteran for a short term 1 or 2 years as a stop gap until one of our young guys are ready. So I dont mind the buy out option to save 2M this year and have 1M on the books next year.

Z, Datsyk, Abby
Franzen, Weiss, Nyquist
Tatar, Andersson/Helm, Jurco/Frk
Miller, Andersson/Helm, Ferraro/Sheahan/Tootoo

That's way cheaper and Tatar, Nyquist, Andersson all have had time to adapt and help lead the 2 new guys coming up and limit the inexperience.

Kronwall, FA/E
Dekeyser, Smith/Kindl
FA, Smith/Kindl

It really depends how Kindl, Dekeyser and Smith improve for what we would need to sign next offseason. It could be a bottom 6 guy and a top 2 guy which would be 4M and 1.5/2M or so.

I say buy him out and eat the 1 million next year.

 

[crashman]

I'm truly curious if Sammy or Tootoo could be traded without Holland having to send an asset along with them. Maybe Holland was confident that he could convince some team to take our garbage, and that's why he didn't use the other buyout.

I'm also not sure if Eaves could be traded. Some teams might see some value in him, but his recent injury might make them lose interest.

I don't think Bertuzzi will be traded, but if he's healthy and able to contribute, I'd rather he stick around anyway.

Emmerton might have a little bit of trade value, but nothing more than a late round pick.

Holland really got himself into a crunch signing all these redundant players. I'm really anxious to see if/how he's able to get out of it.

 

[Winger98]

I'm truly curious if Sammy or Tootoo could be traded without Holland having to send an asset along with them. Maybe Holland was confident that he could convince some team to take our garbage, and that's why he didn't use the other buyout.

I'm also not sure if Eaves could be traded. Some teams might see some value in him, but his recent injury might make them lose interest.

I don't think Bertuzzi will be traded, but if he's healthy and able to contribute, I'd rather he stick around anyway.

Emmerton might have a little bit of trade value, but nothing more than a late round pick.

Holland really got himself into a crunch signing all these redundant players. I'm really anxious to see if/how he's able to get out of it.

Samuelsson and/or Bertuzzi will start the year on LTIR, and quite possibly just stay there. At least a couple of guys seem to always get hurt in camp, too. Injuries in other camps might open up a couple of trades for guys like Eaves and Tootoo.

We could even gain enough cap room by just demoting two of Sammy, Bert, or Tootoo.

 

[crashman]

Samuelsson and/or Bertuzzi will start the year on LTIR, and quite possibly just stay there. At least a couple of guys seem to always get hurt in camp, too. Injuries in other camps might open up a couple of trades for guys like Eaves and Tootoo.

We could even gain enough cap room by just demoting two of Sammy, Bert, or Tootoo.

I've read this many times but I don't know where it's coming from, what evidence do people have that's going to happen?

Players can't be (and certainly don't want to be) put on LTIR if they're healthy. Bert was healthy enough to play during the playoffs last year, he was just out of game shape. Sammy will have had all off-season to recover from his injuries.

What makes people think that's a solution?

 

[InjuredChoker]

I've read this many times but I don't know where it's coming from, what evidence do people have that's going to happen?

Players can't be (and certainly don't want to be) put on LTIR if they're healthy. Bert was healthy enough to play during the playoffs last year, he was just out of game shape. Sammy will have had all off-season to recover from his injuries.

What makes people think that's a solution?

Sammy might be healthy.

But doubt Bert would pass true physical. He was only declared 'healthy' bc it was playoffs and hope that he would help the team. imo.

 

[Henkka]

I don't understand either that people are already counting players in LTIR when there's almost 3 months (!) for the season start (the real moment to trim the roster).

You just can do it that way. If they are healthy, they are healthy. That's to only way to think until the team says anything else.

So far there hasn't been any report about Bertuzzi, that he isn't healthy. Helm is also going towards being healthy.

But with Samuelsson, it has been very quiet, and the situation is weird. He had that some kind of pectoral injury and wasn't healthy at compliance buyout time (end of june). Since that, there has been three weeks time to heal. Maybe he is healthy? And after three months, at the season start, he should be healthy for sure. So you can't count anything for the LTIR.

At least, send him to doctor to evaluate the situation.

 

[Winger98]

Sammy might be healthy.

But doubt Bert would pass true physical. He was only declared 'healthy' bc it was playoffs and hope that he would help the team. imo.

That was my read on Bert, too.

With Sammy, if he's legitimately still hurt, I doubt he starts the season healthy. He's either sand bagging a bit, or there's more going on than the docs can figure out.

 

[garry1221]

I don't understand either that people are already counting players in LTIR when there's almost 3 months (!) for the season start (the real moment to trim the roster).

You just can do it that way. If they are healthy, they are healthy. That's to only way to think until the team says anything else.

So far there hasn't been any report about Bertuzzi, that he isn't healthy. Helm is also going towards being healthy.

But with Samuelsson, it has been very quiet, and the situation is weird. He had that some kind of pectoral injury and wasn't healthy at compliance buyout time (end of june). Since that, there has been three weeks time to heal. Maybe he is healthy? And after three months, at the season start, he should be healthy for sure. So you can't count anything for the LTIR.

At least, send him to doctor to evaluate the situation.

I believe the LTIR talk is because it's the best case scenario that we see right now. If sammy and/or bert are healthy, not only are we hard pressed against the cap, but that also takes a spot away from a ypung player who's earned their spot. That in turn leads us back to the countless 'what was kenny thinking' posts

 

[Winger98]

I believe the LTIR talk is because it's the best case scenario that we see right now. If sammy and/or bert are healthy, not only are we hard pressed against the cap, but that also takes a spot away from a ypung player who's earned their spot. That in turn leads us back to the countless 'what was kenny thinking' posts

The best case scenario is that we trade them off somehow Since the cap was created, though, we've seen LTIR abused (such as the devils with mogilny and Malakhov), and we know it's an option - especially with two guys whose injuries appear to be lingering far longer than originally expected.

 

[LastWordArmy]

You can't buy him out.

 

[Winger98]

From Khan's article yesterday:

"I believe he's on the road to recovery,'' Holland said. “There was talk at the end of the year he might need surgery (for a torn pectoral muscle). The doctors looked at him and said no surgery, just needs time to heal. He was feeling better every day. We expect him to be ready for the start of camp."

So, start writing Sammy into your starting lineups folks.

 

[Bench]

So, start writing Sammy into your starting lineups folks.

How I imagine people reading this.

 

[Heaton]

From Khan's article yesterday:



So, start writing Sammy into your starting lineups folks.

Or... Holland is propping him up to make him look like he's tradeable.

 

[Vladdy84]

From Khan's article yesterday:



So, start writing Sammy into your starting lineups folks.

Gator-Z-Dats
Mule-Weiss-Cleary
Alfie-Helm-Sammy
Eaves-Andersson-Miller
Toots
Tatar
Emmerton waived. Nyquist sent to AHL. Bert LTIR.





So Penner just signed for 1 yr 2M...

 

[RedWingsNow*]

I don't see Sammy have a ton of value at his age/recent injury history.

I'm supportive of eating the cap hit and sending him to Toledo

 

[Winger98]

Or... Holland is propping him up to make him look like he's tradeable.

If he was willing to use injury to quash the possibility of a buyout, I have a hard time seeing him waiving his NTC to allow a trade. Maybe if just the right team was involved, but it's been awhile since so many stars aligned for Holland.

 

[Sadekuuro]

Waive him, hope to get lucky with someone putting in a claim?

 

[joe89]

From Khan's article yesterday:



So, start writing Sammy into your starting lineups folks.

If it keeps us from signing Cleary to a new 3 year deal, sign me up. With respect to what they've done for this team in the past, I'm looking forward to see our forward group not involving anyone of Cleary, Sammy and Bert in 14/15.. The problem isn't that Sammy will be a complete waste(probably 15 goals), but that he's gonna take ice time away from someone else.