Why are bad faceoff men used at center?

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

My ignore list, made it so. No biggie. Just wanted to set record straight.

Yea, that’d do it. Was genuinely confused.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I just ignored people for the first time in the past couple of months and I've experienced the same confusion on occasion. I re-read stuff really good to make sure I'm not mixing stuff up haha.

You aren't very manly if you ignore posters, just sayin'

 

[Blue Liner]

You aren't very manly if you ignore posters, just sayin'

There's actually only one, and it took me damn near 10 years to finally use the function on somebody. At some point I just don't need to see what you're saying, I know what you are and don't need the aggravation.

 

[AmericanDream]

late to the discussion, but for me, the main importance is where are the faceoffs being taken from? defensive zone faceoffs are beyond critical, which is where we really sucked this year and the past few to be honest. allowing teams to keep pressure in our zone draw after draw was maddening - that puts such a strain on our defense and cripples our transition game and forwards.

the other area is on power plays in the offensive zone. losing draws there killed so many power plays for us, again it was maddening. faceoffs are very important, just in certain zones. I do not care less about regular draws at center ice or draws in the offensive zone not on the man advantage, those you deal with the flow of the game and win pucks back...

I think the bigger issue is shitty line changes, that affects a game more than draws IMO - the team that gets asses on/off the ice faster and correctly usually gets more offensive chances and better overall matchups, something Q has been decent to solid at if you ask me.

I have been a proponent of moving Schmaltz to wing mainly to help spark Toews, and only if AA and a Stastny or Nash could step in and take over the other two center spots....welp, that didn't happen, so Little Nicky stays down the middle likely for good, and hope he develops a better faceoff percentage this year and beyond.

Hayden would have giant leaps to make to stick as a top 9 center for us, though I think he can do it and should be given that shot, just do not think that is in the cards right now folks.

 

[ChiHawks10]

I doubt it, we are among the few who understand their importance.

Really MM? On a board filled with former players(many at higher levels), referees, coaches, scouts, etc... you're among the few who understand the importance of faceoffs? JFC, step off the high horse for a bit bud.

Every single person on this board understands the importance of winning specific faceoffs. Some matter much more than others. The first draw of a game at center ice? Doesn't matter all that much. I couldn't care less if it is won or lost. The offsides faceoffs? Not as critical. Really any neutral zone faceoff is way down on the list of importance, unless of course there are extenuating circumstances, like empty nets, limited time left on the clock, man advantage situations, etc.

The critical faceoffs are the special teams FOs, and most of the ones in either offensive/defensive zone. And everyone understands these can be very important. A faceoff win in the offensive zone can switch around the entire momentum of a game if you can win it and pin the defenders in their zone. A faceoff win in the defensive zone can keep momentum on your side, and/or take it back by allowing for a breakout after being hemmed in your zone for an extended period of time. And I'm pretty sure I don't have to explain why special teams FO wins are extremely important.

I think a lot of people put far too much stock into them. And some people undervalue their importance. That said, in general, I'm pretty sure most people on here do understand why they can be important... and why they sometimes don't matter.

Now, more on topic... centers can be mediocre/average/bad at faceoffs, and still be used at center, because they're very good at all the other responsibilities of centers. Being a 3rd D in the defensive zone is part of it. A lot of times, centers float the square from the tops of the circles to the corners in both zones, and should be solid both defensively, and offensively. There's a reason the majority of your Selke winners and best two-way players in the game are centers. The responsibilities call for you to be very good on both sides of the puck. To be a good skater. To be intelligent on the ice in both zones, and being able to anticipate opponent's actions. Not everyone is that player. Kane has to cover a point/down to about the hash marks along the boards on his side in the D zone. Toews has to cover the entirety of the center of his zone, both in the offensive and defensive zones, help D in the corners, help D in front of the net, etc. Very good, responsible, two-way players, whether good at FOs or bad at FOs, are harder to come by than wingers, and/or one-dimensional players, hence why they're used in a position that demands more from them, whether they can take draws well, or not.

TL;DR: FOs can be important, but not always, and most the time, not even often. Bad FO players are still used at center because they excel at every other responsibility/aspect of the position, so their FO abilities aren't as critical. They more than make up for their lack of FO abilities in other ways.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Really MM? On a board filled with former players(many at higher levels), referees, coaches, scouts, etc... you're among the few who understand the importance of faceoffs? JFC, step off the high horse for a bit bud.

Every single person on this board understands the importance of winning specific faceoffs. Some matter much more than others. The first draw of a game at center ice? Doesn't matter all that much. I couldn't care less if it is won or lost. The offsides faceoffs? Not as critical. Really any neutral zone faceoff is way down on the list of importance, unless of course there are extenuating circumstances, like empty nets, limited time left on the clock, man advantage situations, etc.

The critical faceoffs are the special teams FOs, and most of the ones in either offensive/defensive zone. And everyone understands these can be very important. A faceoff win in the offensive zone can switch around the entire momentum of a game if you can win it and pin the defenders in their zone. A faceoff win in the defensive zone can keep momentum on your side, and/or take it back by allowing for a breakout after being hemmed in your zone for an extended period of time. And I'm pretty sure I don't have to explain why special teams FO wins are extremely important.

I think a lot of people put far too much stock into them. And some people undervalue their importance. That said, in general, I'm pretty sure most people on here do understand why they can be important... and why they sometimes don't matter. they can take draws well, or not. .

Don't be so ridiculous, is a neutral zone faceoff important in a 5-1 game? Of course. NOBODY said they were all equal.

The people who know practice faceoff plays religiously, have special faceoff coaches come in and work with centermen and keep players on their roster because they can win faceoffs ONLY.

Learn some context to the game and you could have spared a few paragraphs of nothingness.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Don't be so ridiculous, is a neutral zone faceoff important in a 5-1 game? Of course. NOBODY said they were all equal.

The people who know practice faceoff plays religiously, have special faceoff coaches come in and work with centermen and keep players on their roster because they can win faceoffs ONLY.

Learn some context to the game and you could have spared a few paragraphs of nothingness.

WTF are you even talking about? The entire portion of my post discussing faceoffs was about context of the game/specific game situations. And uhhh... no, a neutral zone faceoff in a 5-1 game is hardly important, especially in comparison to a neutral zone faceoff in a 2-1 game, or a defensive zone faceoff in a 2-1 game when you're leading.

Again, read the post... the entire thing talks about context/game situations. Not every faceoff matters. And the context of the game dictates if/when they do...

 

[Marotte Marauder]

WTF are you even talking about? The entire portion of my post discussing faceoffs was about context of the game/specific game situations. And uhhh... no, a neutral zone faceoff in a 5-1 game is hardly important, especially in comparison to a neutral zone faceoff in a 2-1 game, or a defensive zone faceoff in a 2-1 game when you're leading.

Again, read the post... the entire thing talks about context/game situations. Not every faceoff matters. And the context of the game dictates if/when they do...

Funny that you think the faceoff supporters did not understand game context.

Faceoffs are an extremely important factor in a game. Period.

 

[ijuka]

Because faceoffs are some of the least important things when it comes to being a center and the other factors are far more important.

40% vs 60% faceoff win% has a very marginal impact on everything.

Faceoffs are an extremely important factor in a game. Period.

Not really, no. Realize that the difference is 40-60 not 0-100.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Funny that you think the faceoff supporters did not understand game context.

Faceoffs are an extremely important factor in a game. Period.

I'm having a conversation with people, and yes, some people on here don't understand it. It's the whole point of the original post in the thread. The OP asked a question.

And when did I say "faceoff supporters" don't understand context? Do you struggle with reading comprehension? Honest question.

Faceoffs can be important. Not all are critical. And they have different degrees of importance. As my original post stated...

 

[AmericanDream]

....well, this got out of hand!

next up, Fiddy is going to show up and kill a guy with a trident!!

 

[ChiHawks10]

....well, this got out of hand!

next up, Fiddy is going to show up and kill a guy with a trident!!

Lack of reading comprehension can do that quick. Or just plain ignorance/ego. Not sure which it is with MM.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

I'm having a conversation with people, and yes, some people on here don't understand it. It's the whole point of the original post in the thread. The OP asked a question.

And when did I say "faceoff supporters" don't understand context? Do you struggle with reading comprehension? Honest question.

Faceoffs can be important. Not all are critical. And they have different degrees of importance. As my original post stated...

You're having a conversation with people? Your 1st post in the thread quotes me. Then YOU wish to lecture about various areas on the ice that constitute key faceoff areas. Puhleeze.

I forgot more about this game, 20 years ago, than you'll likely ever grasp.

Since faceoffs are no different to some as any other 50/50 battle, why do ALL teams work on it so much?

Because they like to waste time or resources?

 

[ChiHawks10]

You're having a conversation with people? Your 1st post in the thread quotes me. Then YOU wish to lecture about various areas on the ice that constitute key faceoff areas. Puhleeze.

I forgot more about this game, 20 years ago, than you'll likely ever grasp.

Since faceoffs are no different to some as any other 50/50 battle, why do ALL teams work on it so much?

Because they like to waste time or resources?

Forgot why I didn't have conversations with you. The self-proclaimed MENSA member and all-knowing MM. Whatever you say gramps.

I wasn't lecturing to you, Mr. Self-Importance. I commented to you in part of my post. The rest was talking to the OP. Again... reading comprehension. Not your strong suit I see.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Forgot why I didn't have conversations with you. The self-proclaimed MENSA member and all-knowing MM. Whatever you say gramps.

I wasn't lecturing to you, Mr. Self-Importance. I commented to you in part of my post. The rest was talking to the OP. Again... reading comprehension. Not your strong suit I see.

Certainly won't see you at any MENSA meetings nor behind the bench of any competitive hockey games but good luck to you. It's OK to be a casual observer.

Here's a good starting point for ya!

John Russo

 

[ChiHawks10]

Certainly won't see you at any MENSA meetings nor behind the bench of any competitive hockey games but good luck to you. It's OK to be a casual observer.

Here's a good starting point for ya!

John Russo

Thanks gramps. I was wondering where you picked up your knowledge of the game. Knew it couldn't be on the ice. Back to ignore you go.

 

[BK]

Certainly won't see you at any MENSA meetings nor behind the bench of any competitive hockey games but good luck to you. It's OK to be a casual observer.

Here's a good starting point for ya!

John Russo

Did we just get a MENSA shout out?

Russo is big up here.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

You're having a conversation with people? Your 1st post in the thread quotes me. Then YOU wish to lecture about various areas on the ice that constitute key faceoff areas. Puhleeze.

I forgot more about this game, 20 years ago, than you'll likely ever grasp.

Since faceoffs are no different to some as any other 50/50 battle, why do ALL teams work on it so much?

Because they like to waste time or resources?

I almost strained my neck eye rolling so hard.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Did we just get a MENSA shout out?

Russo is big up here.

John is big pretty much everywhere.

 

[BK]

John is big pretty much everywhere.

Not as big in MI but that is not a shock.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Not as big in MI but that is not a shock.

True but it's always been M against M against M.

A friend of mine that was on the 84 Olympic team told some very wild stories of how the M's hated each other.

 

[BK]

True but it's always been M against M against M.

A friend of mine that was on the 84 Olympic team told some very wild stories of how the M's hated each other.

Yeah. I have experienced it. Fights at summer camps and festivals were common.

It has become much less stressed with the growth of the sport.

Michigan and Mass got along much better than either did with MN.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Nobody knows as much as me, me special.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

You're having a conversation with people? Your 1st post in the thread quotes me. Then YOU wish to lecture about various areas on the ice that constitute key faceoff areas. Puhleeze.

I forgot more about this game, 20 years ago, than you'll likely ever grasp.

Since faceoffs are no different to some as any other 50/50 battle, why do ALL teams work on it so much?

Because they like to waste time or resources?

That’s some high level self-fluffing, my goodness. It’s almost at the NSFW point.

 

[BobbyJet]

There are a few posters who refreshingly went quiet for a while around here. Now that they're back posting their yes man crap I'm feeling nauseous all over again .... and I don't mean MM.

I guess it's time to revisit my ignore list.