Whose peak season was better, Jagr in 1998-99 or Fedorov in 1993-94

[habsfanatics*]

The scoring was higher in 2006-07. Look for Crosby to score 130 points this coming season of which 80-90 is assists. OR he wins the Richard with nearly 60 goals, pick your poison.

Crosby will be lucky to ever get 50 again, 60 is basically out of the question imo.

 

[Big Phil]

Exactly. You just proved why your Crosby > Forsberg opinion makes no sense. Crosby has < 471 games played and is still young.

If I remember correctly, I stated that Crosby is close career wise to him already, but when judging them at their best Crosby came out on top.

A little different with Jagr here. Jagr had the better career. Jagr was the better proven playmaker. Jagr was clearly better at his best, over Forsberg.

 

[habsfanatics*]

Ifs and buts? We arent talking about "over the course of a season" we are talking about (albeit a bit OT) who is the better playmaker between Jagr and Forsberg and Forsberg were better as a playmaker wether he was injured or not. Just like Crosby is better than Giroux wether he is injured or not.

Except he's not and the fact Jagr didn't sacrifice goals for his playmaking, it's really a no contest.

 

[habsfanatics*]

Gee, I wonder who made the argument that 2000 - not 1999 - was Jagr's best season and the best season ever by a European player in this thread?

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=70877565&postcount=56




Because no one really talked about his TOI in 1999 before this thread. We're not turning it into a negative (I even said it was a positive argument for the Hart Trophy), but it is a factor that benefited his raw points total just as Kip Miller is a factor that did not benefit his raw points total. We're talking about all of it, but for some reason, some people (including habsfanatics) are claiming that TOI is irrelevant.




And yet you took offense with my challenge to Big Phil claiming that there was "no debate"? I threw out the end of Jagr's career, I threw out the beginning of Jagr's career - there is no section of Jagr's career that meets up with the assist rate of Forsberg from 1995-2011. The claim that he only has a higher APG than Jagr because of a shorter career is false. It is arguable that Forsberg was a better playmaker than Jagr. That was the whole point.




I look forward to you quoting the post where I said it was the only factor.




So did I in my very first post in this thread that you read in its entirety.

Obviously more ice time provides more opportunity, my point was that it's not even close to one of the top determining factors imo, Jagr did this with more icetime/less icetime, and you can have all the icetime in the world with hrdina and miller and it's relatively meaningless.

It was a benefit, but when you count the things working against jagr (mauling him, poor linemates, generally a pretty poor team) ect, I don't see it as a deciding factor.

There's also nothing to suggest that Jagr didn't just earn the ice-time he received, which makes the point pretty moot.

 

[PaPaDee]

Tough call, but went with Federov.

 

[Milliardo]

When a player gets hurt again and again and again it's not a fluke: That player is injury prone.

I don't think an injury caused by a slap shot to the face has anything to do with being injury prone. Crosby basically had one neck injury that cut into two seasons and a high ankle sprain, that's it.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

I don't think an injury caused by a slap shot to the face has anything to do with being injury prone. Crosby basically had one neck injury that cut into two seasons and a high ankle sprain, that's it.

Forgetting the concussions hmmmmm?

 

[Pominville Knows]

Forgetting the concussions hmmmmm?

Fact is he does not have any lingering injuries, but different injuries alltogether. I dont think the neck problem/concussion, ankle sprain and broken jaw has anything to do with eachother. Only the concussion/neck has been prone to come back, but anyone that dont think that's in the past by now in terms of being chronic by now is sorely mistaken. The guy took a puck to the jaw and it did not return!

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Fact is he does not have any lingering injuries, but different injuries alltogether. I dont think the neck problem, ankle sprain and broken jaw has anything to do with eachother. Only the concussion has been prone to come back, but anyone that dont think that's in the past by now in terms of being chronic by now is sorely mistaken.

And like I said, I've heard all these excuses and claims of "fluke injury" ect ect before with Lindros. Some players are just injury prone: Get over it.

 

[Pominville Knows]

And like I said, I've heard all these excuses and claims of "fluke injury" ect ect before with Lindros. Some players are just injury prone: Get over it.

You forget that he took a puck to his jaw and the concussion did not come back by it. That fluke injury actually provided proof right there that the concussion is not very chronic.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

You forget that he took a puck to his jaw and the concussion did not come back by it. That's proof right there that it's not very chronic.

When he takes one between the eyes give me a call. Regardless, when a player is injury prone its always SOMETHING. The injuries don't have to be related, sooner or later that player WILL find their way back on the disabled list for long stretches. I'm sorry, but you're allowing your fondness for Crosby cloud your judgement.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

You forget that he took a puck to his jaw and the concussion did not come back by it. That fluke injury actually provided proof right there that the concussion is not very chronic.

And why are you hijacking a thread about Jagr vs Federov and making it about Crosby? Or Forsberg?

 

[Pominville Knows]

When he takes one between the eyes give me a call. Regardless, when a player is injury prone its always SOMETHING. The injuries don't have to be related, sooner or later that player WILL find their way back on the disabled list for long stretches. I'm sorry, but you're allowing your fondness for Crosby cloud your judgement.

Okey, although i dont think the shaking of the brain gets as big on the nose as on the side of the jaw. Be prepared to see Crosby receive at least three major trophies this season, not counting the Masterton.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Okey. Be prepared to see Crosby receive at least three major trophies this season, not counting the Masterton.

Again, why are you using a thread about Jagr vs Federov to try and big up your boy Crosby?

 

[Milliardo]

Forgetting the concussions hmmmmm?

Well, concussion/neck injury, whatever it was. I just called it neck unjury because that's what kept him out so long. But again, that has nothing to do with being injury prone.

Lindros hat like 12 concussions and always returned way too early. There is absolutely no correlation zu Crosby. And it's not about excuses. It's about proving a false statement wrong.

 

[Milliardo]

Again, why are you using a thread about Jagr vs Federov to try and big up your boy Crosby?

You brought im up.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

You brought im up.

No I didn't >>>>>

Ifs and buts? We arent talking about "over the course of a season" we are talking about (albeit a bit OT) who is the better playmaker between Jagr and Forsberg and Forsberg were better as a playmaker wether he was injured or not. Just like Crosby is better than Giroux wether he is injured or not.

All I did was respond to someone saying that injuries were irrelevant. And that was after someone tried to make the thread about Forsberg.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Well, concussion/neck injury, whatever it was. I just called it neck unjury because that's what kept him out so long. But again, that has nothing to do with being injury prone.

Lindros hat like 12 concussions and always returned way too early. There is absolutely no correlation zu Crosby. And it's not about excuses. It's about proving a false statement wrong.

Calling repeated missed time with injuries a fluke IS making excuses. And when you miss large portions of season after season you ARE injury prone regardless of the excuses fans of that player make.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I see a thread that has devolved into numerous off-topic tangents with more than one poster who is involved in the off-topic tangents telling other posters to stay on topic.

Time to lock this one down.