Who's more at fault, the goalie or the team?

[SnowblindNYR]

Your team gives up 5 grade A chances that are almost unstoppable, cross crease stuff, perfect breakaway snipes and the goalie gives up the 5 goals. however, the team shut it down other than those 5 chances and only gave up 15 shots total. They had 40 shots on offense and scored 4 goals. The team ended up losing 5-4. Is the goalie at more at fault for not coming up big at least one time or is the rest of the team more at fault for giving up these 5 grade A chances? Most likely the answer is a mix of both, but I don't want to give a cop out option.

Click to read more...

 

[Pyrophorus]

It does depend.
Could be even game to game.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

The goalie. Only giving up 5 grade A chances in a game of NHL hockey and nothing else is a pretty good game, at least in this era.

Team Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

For HDCA/60 in the last full regular season (18-19), the range was between 9.17 and 14.07, with 2/3rds of the League falling between 10 and 12. Since HDCA against is a measure of distance, we can safely half that and still have all but the elite teams giving up more than 5.00 quality chances per game. Though that number may have to be reduced further, which would refute this argument.

 

[bobholly39]

The goalie.

Even if theyre the 5 craziest chances ever (5 3 on 0 breakaways) - you still want your goalie to at least block one. Thats the goalies job after all, saving his teammates when they make mistakes

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The goalie.

Even if theyre the 5 craziest chances ever (5 3 on 0 breakaways) - you still want your goalie to at least block one. Thats the goalies job after all, saving his teammates when they make mistakes

So if each chances has a 90% chance of going in, which I don't think any chance does, you still have a 40% chance that your goalie will stop at least 1. So I voted for the goalie in this poll.

 

[SotasicA]

The goalie. The goalie is the most important player on your team, and you need those big plays. Goalie in hockey is like the quarterback in football. You win that matchup against the opponent and you're looking pretty good.

 

[Woncka]

Its the goalies job to make some tough saves.. however dont dare tell a goalie its his fault after letting up five grade-A chances

saying its on the goalie to come up clutch is one thing. But to place blame? Thats mightily unfair IMO

no goalie in history is going to have a successful career if, in most of their important games, your team is leaking high danger chances like a siv

id place blame on the team. Unless this happens often - then at some point the numbers likely point to the goaltender not bailing out enough. But that isnt the OPs question idt

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The goalie. The goalie is the most important player on your team, and you need those big plays. Goalie in hockey is like the quarterback in football. You win that matchup against the opponent and you're looking pretty good.

Except, QB is the most important position and goalies are considered a devalued position by many. People consider goalies pretty interchangeable.

 

[biturbo19]

It's a hard hypothetical to even gauge. But that would be an absolutely nightmarish game to play for a goaltender. You'd be just standing around doing nothing for almost the entire game, aside from like 5 little flurries of a handful of seconds of complete and utter defensive breakdown in front of you? Just hard to really stay in the game like that, while only feeling the puck 10 times all night. There are some goaltenders out there who seem less phased by it, but there are a lot of really good, top-end goaltenders who can completely fall apart when they aren't afforded the opportunity to really "get into the game" and feel the puck semi-regularly.

 

[Woncka]

It's a hard hypothetical to even gauge. But that would be an absolutely nightmarish game to play for a goaltender. You'd be just standing around doing nothing for almost the entire game, aside from like 5 little flurries of a handful of seconds of complete and utter defensive breakdown in front of you? Just hard to really stay in the game like that, while only feeling the puck 10 times all night. There are some goaltenders out there who seem less phased by it, but there are a lot of really good, top-end goaltenders who can completely fall apart when they aren't afforded the opportunity to really "get into the game" and feel the puck semi-regularly.

That was the Brodeur special

see ten shots through two periods then stop ten high danger chances in the third alone

dude could go a week without touching pads and then suit right back up and get a shutout

 

[biturbo19]

That was the Brodeur special

see ten shots through two periods then stop ten high danger chances in the third alone

dude could go a week without touching pads and then suit right back up and get a shutout

Yeah. He was pretty special at that.

Feel like he basically just kept himself in the game somehow by wandering around and pretending to be a defenceman moving the puck to occupy his time.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

The goalie.

Five goals on 15 shots is unacceptable no matter the quality of chances. At some point your goalie needs to make some big stops.

 

[Prairie Habs]

If the team allowed 5 "almost unstoppable" chances I know who the coach would be made at the next day in practice.

 

[Fataldogg]

Goalie. They get paid $$$ to make important saves when it counts. Five high danger chances isn't terrible for the entirety of a game. Good goalies are expected to make good saves to keep their teams in games.

If a goalie needs a bunch of low danger shots to look competent, they are not a great goalie.

 

[DJJones]

Seems like a question designed to get a specific answer.

If you let in 5 goals on 15 shots, it's your fault. I don't care if half of them are breakaways

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

I don't think either is at fault to be honest. Giving up 5 grade A's in a game is not bad by the team, saving every puck the goalie should save is not a bad game by the goaltender.

It's one of those things where you likely just tip your cap to the opposing teams players for making plays and taking perfect shots that were sure goals. Assuming they really were those type of plays and not ones where it was a 50/50 if the goalie could've saved it.

Like, would it have been nice to get a highlight reel save? Sure. But is the goalie at fault for losing the game if he didn't stop pucks he shouldn't? I think fault is too strong of a word.

In reality games like this really don't happen though so it's kinda pointless to think about. 99.9% of the time every single grade A doesn't end up in the end, even if it's one of those flukey games like implied here.

Also, if you're a confident team playing great hockey and showed up competing hard stuff like this pretty much never happens. For fragile teams it happens more. So technically you could blame the team for digging themselves that hole in the first place.

 

[Albatros]

Five goals on 15 shots is unacceptable no matter the quality of chances.

Why? Not all chances are created equal and it makes no sense to judge an individual game based on numbers alone. If it occurs that 5 shots out of 15 weren't for the goalie to be had then it is what it is. Could still be a better performance than 50 shots on the logo.

 

[heretik27]

I don't usually blame the goalie when the team in front of him leaves him out to dry, which I think is what the thread is implying. It doesn't matter if he only faced 15 shots or 30, if your team is giving up back door tap-ins like free pizzas then your team is to blame. Not every goalie is capable of making highlight reel saves like Hasek or Kiprusoff.

I'll also add, the only time I really rip on the goalie is when they're just getting beat straight up on shots from sharp angles or far out with no traffic or lateral movement. Those ones you want your goalie to save because they should be routine.

 

[jetsforever]

What is the purpose of this question?

 

[its josh]

Did the goalie turn the puck over behind the net and let in a softy for the game winner?

 

[Selyanin]

To me you answered your own question in your post. If they really are "almost unstoppable", which for me is 95% of the time a goal, you can't blame the goalie. To expect a goalie to stop 20% of those is pretty ridiculous. If they are like snipe from the hashmarks or one timer from the faceoff dot, yes it's the goalies fault. That's like asking is your best sniper to blame if he misses on 5 almost unscoreable shots like from behind the net or something like that.

 

[SotasicA]

To me you answered your own question in your post. If they really are "almost unstoppable", which for me is 95% of the time a goal, you can't blame the goalie. To expect a goalie to stop 20% of those is pretty ridiculous. If they are like snipe from the hashmarks or one timer from the faceoff dot, yes it's the goalies fault. That's like asking is your best sniper to blame if he misses on 5 almost unscoreable shots like from behind the net or something like that.

If the definition of an "unstoppable shot" is 95%, then you expect your goalie to stop 1 out of 5 goals 22.622% time.

If it's 90%, then your goalie will stop one or more 41% of the time.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

5 goals on 15 shots is always a goalie issue you can't ask the defense to give up less than 15 shots

 

[elmaco]

The team. Elite players can do shots that no goalie can save.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

5 goals on 15 shots is always a goalie issue you can't ask the defense to give up less than 15 shots

Eh, how is it the goalie's fault if, as the OP put it, all 5 goals were almost unstoppable?

I can never fault a goalie if he's letting in goals that would be scored on every other goalie in the league, and would take highlight reel, save-of-the-year type saves in order to stop. I'd put the blame squarely on the team for consistently allowing those kinds of Grade-A chances.

Goalies are to blame when they're letting in shots that should be saved.