Who would you want to replace Blashill?

[MBH]

Special about Blashill? Can't really say one way or another. His boss likes what he's done as a developmental coach (and I know you disagree with that thought), but what he is being measured against isn't the same as a team with playoff aspirations at this stage. Until this team has declared that they have playoff expectations and that winning means something, it's hard to hold him to a standard of playoff appearances.

Team likes his work, the new GM employed and advocated for a coach who runs virtually the same program, and the team has made it clear they are rebuilding and riding out contracts and cultivating young talent. He very well could (and I could argue should) be back after next year. But obviously it will depend on how the season runs its course.

 

[turkleton85]

i've go to say that i really wanted him gone until last season...but i think that this last season he really had this team overachieve, and the young guys developed pretty nicely, after all. So why not keep him, cant ask for much more with a roster like this. It'll be interesting to see how far he can take a talented team

 

[plymouthmi]

I wonder if you might be able to tell me how many coaches have lasted 4 straight years out of the playoffs and come back to coach a fifth year?

Probably Barry Trotz.
Anyone else in recently memory?

Is there something extra special about Blashill that makes him better than all the other coaches fired from bad teams?

Dave Tippett is another one.

I don't think there's anything that makes Blashill extra special but I've also always thought teams give up on coaches too quickly in sports. I always thought that's part of what kept the Lions mired in mediocrity in the 2000s, only keeping coaches a year or two.

If another experienced coach becomes available (can't think of an example), then sure let's replace Blashill. If not, why not keep going with him? Am I crazy, or have a bunch of our young players like Larkin, Mantha, Athanasiou, Bertuzzi, etc. made improvements every year under Blashill?

 

[Gniwder]

Is there something extra special about Blashill that makes him better than all the other coaches fired from bad teams?

Nope. At the same time, was there a coach that was a significant upgrade to Blashill this offseason who wanted to coach a cellar dweller team?

I think Blash will finish his contract (just my opinion), unless a "must have" coach becomes available after next season. It's just all part of Stevie's patient approach. We know Stevie will make organizational changes if he thinks it's necessary, look at the scouting staff.

 

[kliq]

When I want to take someone seriously, I don't go to a hockey board, where anonymous people debate unserious things.

I wonder if you might be able to tell me how many coaches have lasted 4 straight years out of the playoffs and come back to coach a fifth year?

Probably Barry Trotz.
Anyone else in recently memory?

Is there something extra special about Blashill that makes him better than all the other coaches fired from bad teams?

I'll ask you again as you ignored this in another thread (likely because it kills your point).

Criticizing a coach for not making the playoffs 3 years in a row is only a valid argument if you feel the team had a playoff caliber roster. If a playoff caliber team misses the playoffs, 100% agree that it is on the coach (considering no major injuries).

Did you feel the Wings had a playoff caliber roster in those three years?

If yes, please explain why.

If not, why use this against Blashill?

 

[TatarTangle]

It's very difficult to make a chicken sandwich out of shit. Blashill's job is to cultivate the ingredients and then if he makes a McChicken it's time to move on.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

It's very difficult to make a chicken sandwich out of ****. Blashill's job is to cultivate the ingredients and then if he makes a McChicken it's time to move on.

He better not bring back the McRib or we need to shoot him into space.

 

[MBH]

I'll ask you again as you ignored this in another thread (likely because it kills your point).

Criticizing a coach for not making the playoffs 3 years in a row is only a valid argument if you feel the team had a playoff caliber roster. If a playoff caliber team misses the playoffs, 100% agree that it is on the coach (considering no major injuries).

Did you feel the Wings had a playoff caliber roster in those three years?

If yes, please explain why.

If not, why use this against Blashill?

I think this team could have been better than it was, in every season Blashill has coached.
A potential bubble team these last couple years with the right development approach.

But no. Let's play Abdelkader 18:26 or whatever it was. Let's use Richards in the top nine or on the PP instead of Pulkkinen or Jurco.

That's how you LOSE and f*** up your rebuild.
Lose-Lose.

 

[MBH]

Nope. At the same time, was there a coach that was a significant upgrade to Blashill this offseason who wanted to coach a cellar dweller team?

I think Blash will finish his contract (just my opinion), unless a "must have" coach becomes available after next season. It's just all part of Stevie's patient approach. We know Stevie will make organizational changes if he thinks it's necessary, look at the scouting staff.

Look around the front office and scouting department.

Yzerman will be patience with the rebuild. He won't be patient with ineptitude.

Blash is done after this year.

It's f***ing hilarious. This team sucked all year. Blash had no choice but to play the kids. And suddenly, the team looks dangerous and exciting. And they win just enough to f*** the draft position.

 

[kliq]

I think this team could have been better than it was, in every season Blashill has coached.
A potential bubble team these last couple years with the right development approach.

So in short, you dont think they were a playoff team. With this being the case, you shouldnt use "not making the playoffs 3 years in a row" as your reasoning for him being fired. That is my sole point.

 

[MBH]

So in short, you dont think they were a playoff team. With this being the case, you shouldnt use "not making the playoffs 3 years in a row" as your reasoning for him being fired. That is my sole point.

In the current NHL, if you're a bubble team 3 years running, you should probably make the playoffs one of those years.

We play with poor structure.
Our PP is absolutely awful - 29th over the last three years.
Our PK is only slightly better at 26th.

PPs and PKs are the ways good coaches can overcome talent deficiencies.

You go back and look at Babcock's first season in Toronto. He had those f***ers on the verge of making the playoffs until they decided to tank.

Or Babcock taking Anaheim to the finals in 03. That wasn't a team of stars. That wasn't a star-studded defense.

Trotz taking some of his Nashville teams to the playoffs.

What about the Islanders last year? Was that a stacked team?

Arizona with 86 points last year.

Vancouver trusting their kids and getting 7 more points than we did.

I think Blashill is mediocre. I don't think he'll be around after this season.

 

[kliq]

In the current NHL, if you're a bubble team 3 years running, you should probably make the playoffs one of those years.

We play with poor structure.
Our PP is absolutely awful - 29th over the last three years.
Our PK is only slightly better at 26th.

PPs and PKs are the ways good coaches can overcome talent deficiencies.

You go back and look at Babcock's first season in Toronto. He had those ****ers on the verge of making the playoffs until they decided to tank.

Or Babcock taking Anaheim to the finals in 03. That wasn't a team of stars. That wasn't a star-studded defense.

Trotz taking some of his Nashville teams to the playoffs.

What about the Islanders last year? Was that a stacked team?

Arizona with 86 points last year.

Vancouver trusting their kids and getting 7 more points than we did.

I think Blashill is mediocre. I don't think he'll be around after this season.

Again, I am not saying Blashill is a great coach, I was arguing the point you used to make your argument as I thought it was a very weak point. I feel like you think I am arguing Blashill is good, so you are trying to throw reasons at me to prove he isnt. To be clear, my argument is not making the playoffs 3 years in a row with a roster that is probably the 25th(ish) best team in the NHL is not a good argument to fire the coach.

There are definitely ways to put down Blashill, but why are you referencing Trotz and Babs? They are elite coaches, both are significantly better then Blashill. Are you under the impression that I think Blashill is at that level? Did anyone even insinuate that? It would be like me trying to argue with you that AA is not good because McDavid is better.

 

[MBH]

Again, I am not saying Blashill is a great coach, I was arguing the point you used to make your argument as I thought it was a very weak point. I feel like you think I am arguing Blashill is good, so you are trying to throw reasons at me to prove he isnt. To be clear, my argument is not making the playoffs 3 years in a row with a roster that is probably the 25th(ish) best team in the NHL is not a good argument to fire the coach.

There are definitely ways to put down Blashill, but why are you referencing Trotz and Babs? They are elite coaches, both are significantly better then Blashill. Are you under the impression that I think Blashill is at that level? Did anyone even insinuate that? It would be like me trying to argue with you that AA is not good because McDavid is better.

You can argue that not making the playoffs 4 years in a row is not a good reason to fire the coach (I've said he'll be given this year, even though I wish he wasn't).

But history shows that GMs don't have that kind of patience. It's rare. There aren't many of them.

After four years of losing, bad roster or not, you switch things up to give your young guys a fresh message. To make sure they're not in a rut. To give them something new, to mask the familiar losing.

I bet Yzerman keeps a close eye on Blashill. I know Yzerman respected Cooper and Cooper and Blashill are friends. But Yzerman's not going to have a lot of patience of the Red Wings' prospects aren't developing the way he thinks they should.

And prospects or not, I think Yzerman is going to want to see progress.

 

[Gniwder]

It's ****ing hilarious. This team sucked all year. Blash had no choice but to play the kids. And suddenly, the team looks dangerous and exciting. And they win just enough to **** the draft position.

I actually agree with you on that point, if he doesn't play the BLM to start the season, he should probably be fired during the season instead of waiting until the end. However, I think Yzerman will be involved in line combination discussions if he's not satisfied, so I'm not too worried. I really hope he sticks Abby, Helm, and LGC on the bottom 2 lines. (I'm inclined to believe that Holland influenced the lines to a certain extent, and that won't be a problem anymore.)

The other issue is the PP. They really need to improve zone entry, and have more set plays. Not to mention take advantage of Hronek's slapper and better passing.

So I'm giving Blash the benefit of the doubt, but if I see Abby or Hem in the top 6 again, I'm done with Blash too.

 

[kliq]

You can argue that not making the playoffs 4 years in a row is not a good reason to fire the coach (I've said he'll be given this year, even though I wish he wasn't).

But history shows that GMs don't have that kind of patience. It's rare. There aren't many of them.

After four years of losing, bad roster or not, you switch things up to give your young guys a fresh message. To make sure they're not in a rut. To give them something new, to mask the familiar losing.

I bet Yzerman keeps a close eye on Blashill. I know Yzerman respected Cooper and Cooper and Blashill are friends. But Yzerman's not going to have a lot of patience of the Red Wings' prospects aren't developing the way he thinks they should.

And prospects or not, I think Yzerman is going to want to see progress.

To clarify, are you now talking about what Yzerman should do when this season is over IF they don't make the playoffs this year? You randomly switched it to 4 years. Or did you make a typo?

There is a difference between talking about the last 3 years vs speculating how this season goes and then assessing what should be done a year from now. It is pointless to have a debate if we are discussing two different things.

 

[Henkka]

Biggest thing in this whole Blashill-discussion is, that is he gone or not, after this season or not, it doesn't make any difference.

Still need that elite talent.

He is re-signed for 2 years, and I don't think he will be fired. Maybe he is let walk after those 2 years.

That summer of 2021 is our organizational turning point. Then all dead weight except Nielsen and Abdelkader are gone.

Gone:
Player, caphit, (age at 2021)
-----------------------------
Helm, 3.85M (34 year-old)
Filppula, 3.0M (37-y)
Glendening 1.8M (32-y)
Green 5.3M (35-y)
Ericsson 4.25M (37-y)
Daley 3.16M (37-y)
Howard 4.0M (37-y)
Bernier 3.0M (33-y)
Weiss buyout 1.6M
Ouellet buyout 200k
----------------
Total + 30.2 million
30M of cap waste (overpaid players, or market-valued regressing to be expected veterans), which is ~40% of current and next season cap.

When these millions are started using again on market price in-prime players or underpriced players, then we'll see the team on rise. Blashill or not. These are the biggest factor.

It ill be fun to see. It will be ultimate fast swing up on the standing, when both things will happen at same time. Regressing veterans go away and free that cap space. We can bolster the team with Trouba/Panarin -like UFAs at certain point. And kid-core is not yet ready, but getting better every year. Those kids should be locked in team-friendly deals, before we are generally too good and they get inflated production in a deep team (like Tampa as an example). Yzerman got an experiment of this at Tampa, and I'm quite sure he will a master of getting it done as good as he did at Lightning.

 

[MBH]

To clarify, are you now talking about what Yzerman should do when this season is over IF they don't make the playoffs this year? You randomly switched it to 4 years. Or did you make a typo?

There is a difference between talking about the last 3 years vs speculating how this season goes and then assessing what should be done a year from now. It is pointless to have a debate if we are discussing two different things.

Who would you want to replace Blashill?
To clarify, in this very thread I've said Yzerman will fire him after this season.
He's got three straight non playoff seasons under his belt. Which, i think, is damning enough in the history of Red Wings hockey.
This will be the fourth.

Blashill has enough decent forwards to put pressure on a lot of NHL teams. His defense is weak But if his forwards can press the play, that will ease the pressure on the D.

But he's going to try to play low-event hockey. Because that's his style. And it's not a style that works well with this group.

 

[kliq]

Who would you want to replace Blashill?
To clarify, in this very thread I've said Yzerman will fire him after this season.
He's got three straight non playoff seasons under his belt. Which, i think, is damning enough in the history of Red Wings hockey.
This will be the fourth.

Blashill has enough decent forwards to put pressure on a lot of NHL teams. His defense is weak But if his forwards can press the play, that will ease the pressure on the D.

But he's going to try to play low-event hockey. Because that's his style. And it's not a style that works well with this group.

Ok, so we're having two different conversations.
I was saying to you that I believe saying Blashill should be fired because he missed the playoffs 3 years in a row is a bad argument because he did not have a playoff roster in any of those 3 seasons.
You are saying that you believe that Yzerman will fire Blashill after this season because you believe that the Wings will not make the playoffs this season and that Blashill is going to coach them poorly.
Got it.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Look around the front office and scouting department.

Yzerman will be patience with the rebuild. He won't be patient with ineptitude.

Blash is done after this year.

It's ****ing hilarious. This team sucked all year. Blash had no choice but to play the kids. And suddenly, the team looks dangerous and exciting. And they win just enough to **** the draft position.

The Wings had an ECHL bottom half of the roster. The winning streak at the end of the year was a fluky thing brought on by teams kinda coasting into the end of the year and BLM going off. It was a fluky thing and not indicative of anything. Blash was forced to play all the kids early in the year too... but the Wings lost those games by 4-5 goals. But you're not interested in talking about something like that.

Any success Blashill has "Oh, literally any guy could've done that, he was forced into playing those guys"
Any failure "My god, he does not know how to manage lines".

I don't even think he did that good a job last year, but my god, man. The Wings won games at the end of the year because Larkin, Mantha, and Athanasiou all got hot at the same time and Hirose came in and was a real plus player. The actual talent on that team after the TDL that "****ed the draft position" would be a near lock to be the worst team in hockey if they played a whole season.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Who would you want to replace Blashill?
To clarify, in this very thread I've said Yzerman will fire him after this season.
He's got three straight non playoff seasons under his belt. Which, i think, is damning enough in the history of Red Wings hockey.
This will be the fourth.

Blashill has enough decent forwards to put pressure on a lot of NHL teams. His defense is weak But if his forwards can press the play, that will ease the pressure on the D.

But he's going to try to play low-event hockey. Because that's his style. And it's not a style that works well with this group.

I don't know why the three seasons is so important to you. The playoffs were not difficult to make for most of our history in the NHL. Our one down period before in the 70s is well documented as one of the most inept runs in sports history.

So because of our quarter century of excellence when the playoffs were more common to miss because of the influx of teams to compete against, this isn't surprising. Heck we made it in the Old Norris a few times with worse teams than the first two misses.

 

[MBH]

Ok, so we're having two different conversations.
I was saying to you that I believe saying Blashill should be fired because he missed the playoffs 3 years in a row is a bad argument because he did not have a playoff roster in any of those 3 seasons.
You are saying that you believe that Yzerman will fire Blashill after this season because you believe that the Wings will not make the playoffs this season and that Blashill is going to coach them poorly.
Got it.

I'm saying that a guy who has mostly been playing to win, instead of to develop, is failing to win.
That using Brad Richards and Abdelkader in the top 9 while playing skilled youngsters with Glendening or Miller was stupid.
That we had one of the oldest, worst defenses in hockey. And Blashill decided to go with the old shitty guys instead of young guys who would have improved with experience and confidence.

And for what?
For nothing.

Maybe it was by secret order from Ken Holland. Who was on secret order from the Ilitches?

New era. New coach.
Bring it on.

 

[MBH]

I don't know why the three seasons is so important to you. The playoffs were not difficult to make for most of our history in the NHL. Our one down period before in the 70s is well documented as one of the most inept runs in sports history.

So because of our quarter century of excellence when the playoffs were more common to miss because of the influx of teams to compete against, this isn't surprising. Heck we made it in the Old Norris a few times with worse teams than the first two misses.

3 seasons is important to me because it's 3/4s of Blashill's tenure.

 

[kliq]

I'm saying that a guy who has mostly been playing to win, instead of to develop, is failing to win.
That using Brad Richards and Abdelkader in the top 9 while playing skilled youngsters with Glendening or Miller was stupid.
That we had one of the oldest, worst defenses in hockey. And Blashill decided to go with the old ****ty guys instead of young guys who would have improved with experience and confidence.

And for what?
For nothing.

Maybe it was by secret order from Ken Holland. Who was on secret order from the Ilitches?

New era. New coach.
Bring it on.

Ok, so you’re definitely having a different conversation.

If we’re on this now, let me ask you this. Is it possible that Blashill was trying to develop players, but his way is just different then what you want to see? Are you not happy with the development of Larkin, mantha, AA, and Bertuzzi? Or do you think he has hindered those players?

 

[MBH]

The Wings had an ECHL bottom half of the roster. The winning streak at the end of the year was a fluky thing brought on by teams kinda coasting into the end of the year and BLM going off. It was a fluky thing and not indicative of anything. Blash was forced to play all the kids early in the year too... but the Wings lost those games by 4-5 goals. But you're not interested in talking about something like that.

Any success Blashill has "Oh, literally any guy could've done that, he was forced into playing those guys"
Any failure "My god, he does not know how to manage lines".

I don't even think he did that good a job last year, but my god, man. The Wings won games at the end of the year because Larkin, Mantha, and Athanasiou all got hot at the same time and Hirose came in and was a real plus player. The actual talent on that team after the TDL that "****ed the draft position" would be a near lock to be the worst team in hockey if they played a whole season.

I'm reminded of 2012-13... the year after Lidstrom and Stuart left. Babcock had no choice but to use the kids like Nyquist and defensemen he hated, like Kindl and Smith.
And it was the last time the team looked good in the playoffs - even if Babcock tried his best to f*** it up with Abby on line one.

I'm not saying Larkin/Mantha/Athanasiou/Bertuzzi/Hronek lead this team to game 7 of round two.

But I'm saying if you trust in these kids, there's a pretty good chance they lift you up.
The NHL is a young man's game these days.

Last year Mantha played 17:50 and AA played 16:58. Bertuzzi played 16:31.
I'd like to see all three guys over 18 next year.

Glendening needs to get out of the top 6.
Abdelkader out of the top nine.

Low-event hockey needs to be replaced with high-octane hockey.

 

[MBH]

Ok, so you’re definitely having a different conversation.

If we’re on this now, let me ask you this. Is it possible that Blashill was trying to develop players, but his way is just different then what you want to see? Are you not happy with the development of Larkin, mantha, AA, and Bertuzzi? Or do you think he has hindered those players?

Blashill was trying to win hockey games. And failing. That's pretty obvious.