Who would you want to replace Blashill?

MBH

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Jul 20, 2019
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I share the same feelings as Veleno, when you look at each player in hindsight individually there are so many great points people make about why they didn't cut it. But when you put the whole timeline together is what Veleno is talking about. The situations all feed off each other. If we go in a time capsule and wings go full-on Jurco Marchenko Murask and crew, current reality shows very likely it would have been a dumpster fire. But that disaster would have led to the ultimate need of rebuilding so much sooner than it did and we won't still be on the books for players like Weiss, Abby, Helm, and had to witness other disasters like Richards, Legwand, Cleary etc... The wings kept the foot on the gas long after the engine already exploded.

I always felt that Blash was pretty much a Babcock clone so when he took over I expected more of the same lines and 'tie goes to the vet' especially being under Holland. So I held no illusions that Blash was going to be a catalyst for organizational change. I think that is where Veleno and I differ. However, the overall impact of not facing reality for so many years has ripple effects that don't get acknowledged when you talk about this player or that. And in that respect, I totally agree

Playing the youngsters at this point has happened organically as a result of finally letting the older players fall off the roster and not having playoff's or else over Yzerman's head. So I think the type of impact a coach could have had back then is no longer a window of opportunity. And in that respect, I don't really care if Blash stays or goes in regards to this season.

Yeah, there's no guarantee Jurco would have been the player he promised to be.
Or Pulkkinen.

Even if I firmly believe both guys could have been 15-25 goal guys, I have to allow for the likelihood that both guys bust out the same way they did.

But in the end, if they do? Who cares?
If they don't, then we've got a couple decent players in our top nine.

Right now, Abdelkader, if he's still here, would be on a Glendening contract. Helm would be here on a Glendening contract.

I don't necessarily think we'd be much different in the standings.
But maybe we would be a bit better today if Jurco was a legit top 9 forward and Pulkkinen was a third line forward and PP player.

I don't know about you guys, but I loved the hell out of that Tatar, Pulkkinen Larkin line.

I liked the Jurco-Sheahan-Tatar line.

Those kids showed promise.

They were never going to replace Datsyuk and Zetterberg. But they could have been good guys around the outside of a new core.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
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I share the same feelings as Veleno, when you look at each player in hindsight individually there are so many great points people make about why they didn't cut it. But when you put the whole timeline together is what Veleno is talking about. The situations all feed off each other. If we go in a time capsule and wings go full-on Jurco Marchenko Murask and crew, current reality shows very likely it would have been a dumpster fire. But that disaster would have led to the ultimate need of rebuilding so much sooner than it did and we won't still be on the books for players like Weiss, Abby, Helm, and had to witness other disasters like Richards, Legwand, Cleary etc... The wings kept the foot on the gas long after the engine already exploded.

I always felt that Blash was pretty much a Babcock clone so when he took over I expected more of the same lines and 'tie goes to the vet' especially being under Holland. So I held no illusions that Blash was going to be a catalyst for organizational change. I think that is where Veleno and I differ. However, the overall impact of not facing reality for so many years has ripple effects that don't get acknowledged when you talk about this player or that. And in that respect, I totally agree

Playing the youngsters at this point has happened organically as a result of finally letting the older players fall off the roster and not having playoff's or else over Yzerman's head. So I think the type of impact a coach could have had back then is no longer a window of opportunity. And in that respect, I don't really care if Blash stays or goes in regards to this season.

No, what he's doing is obfuscating the fact. Of course situations feed off of one another, but Pulkkinen failed because of Pulkkinen. Jurco failed because of Jurco and so on and so forth.
Each of the individual player's situations is its own unique thing. If Pulkkinen failed, they should have meant that the next guy up had a chance.

The Wings didn't go full-bore on Jurco, Marchenko, Mursak and company becaues their scouts and coaches pretty much realized that they had a cap to what they were capable of. They obviously didn't know that all of them would essentially turn out to be worthless as NHL players, but they were. The Wings had a bunch of high floor, low ceiling types who lived up to that billing.

If a team is managed correctly, there should NEVER be a need for a disastrous season that leads to a rebuild. You shouldn't ever have a train wreck. You should be moving out assets for futures when you can't win... but you shouldn't ever be so bad that the season is basically a waste.

We are still on the books for Weiss because they wanted to buy him out to free up his money and roster spot for Mike Green and a younger forward.
Legwand was a fine addition until he somehow pissed off Babcock. Like he played really well early on as a Wing.
 

ShelbyZ

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Apr 8, 2015
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Oh man this part is just hilarious.

Mrazek got so many second chances I couldn't keep track of them all. How many times did we say "hmm this past 2 weeks Mrazek has been lights out- let's hope he can keep it going this time and not regress AGAIN"?

The whole not trading Howard thing was so moot anyway... Mrazek started the first year of that deal as the #1 goalie. He started 9 of the teams first 12 games. Whether you agree with it or not, the team was still trying to make the playoffs that season. When Mrazek shit the bed in three straight starts, they went with the hotter hand in Howard. Mrazek dirtied the sheets again in his next start, before Howard goes down with in injury (and Mrazek allows 3 goals on 16 shots in relief). Mrazek is actually good while Howard's gone for a few games. Then Mrazek bombs a start, then another, before Jensen falls on Howard and takes him out for 2.5 months. Here's 2.5 months where it's almost like Howard got traded and Petr can make him a complete afterthought like he almost did the season before. Let's see how he did:

22 Games/20 Starts/6-11-4/.903 SV%/1 Shutout/2.94 GAA

If Jimmy Howard puts up play like that, he's overpaid. What was Mrazek at $4M?

He then platoons with Howard for the rest of the lost season:

Howard - 9 Games/9 Starts/5-4-0/.916 SV%/2.33 GAA
Mrazek - 8 Games/8 Starts/3-3-2/.899 SV%/3.28 GAA

"DAMN, You were right Petr! We should've traded Howard after all!"

Mind you, this was after they fired the goalie coach Petr said was only good for Jimmy, to bring in the guy that he worked with in GR. So his attitude cost Jim Bedard his income and livelihood. Thanks Petr.

If anything, Petr's demand for Howard to be traded just showed how immature he was. The team still needed a backup goalie and had (as unrealistic as they were) playoff aspirations. if Petr was going to play like garbage, any other goalie would be breathing down his neck whether it was Howard, Jared Coreau, or Kevin Hodson.

Mrazek then got his wish and went to a Howard-less team where the net was all his. He was a SOLID .891 for that team.

Jim Nill: "Hey Kenny, remember when Petr Mrazek put up that IG post that said "This how we gonna deal with Ken Holland" and some dollar sign emoji's?"
Ken Holland:

upload_2019-8-26_14-38-13.jpeg
 
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ShelbyZ

Registered User
Apr 8, 2015
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But in the end, if they do? Who cares?
If they don't, then we've got a couple decent players in our top nine.

Pulkkinen is over that 27YO value threshold and Jurco is a few months from crossing it. They'd now be entering the point where they're either overpaid or should be traded for whatever return because they can easily be replaced by David Pope and Givani Smith and won't be good anymore when the team is competitive in 5 years.
 
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Retire91

Stevey Y you our Guy
May 31, 2010
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No, what he's doing is obfuscating the fact. Of course situations feed off of one another, but Pulkkinen failed because of Pulkkinen. Jurco failed because of Jurco and so on and so forth.
Each of the individual player's situations is its own unique thing. If Pulkkinen failed, they should have meant that the next guy up had a chance.

The Wings didn't go full-bore on Jurco, Marchenko, Mursak and company becaues their scouts and coaches pretty much realized that they had a cap to what they were capable of. They obviously didn't know that all of them would essentially turn out to be worthless as NHL players, but they were. The Wings had a bunch of high floor, low ceiling types who lived up to that billing.

If a team is managed correctly, there should NEVER be a need for a disastrous season that leads to a rebuild. You shouldn't ever have a train wreck. You should be moving out assets for futures when you can't win... but you shouldn't ever be so bad that the season is basically a waste.

We are still on the books for Weiss because they wanted to buy him out to free up his money and roster spot for Mike Green and a younger forward.
Legwand was a fine addition until he somehow pissed off Babcock. Like he played really well early on as a Wing.

I don't understand your point. What about signing Richards Alfredson Neilson and company and trading for rentals avoided exactly that? Wasted train wreck seasons. We got there anyway the only difference is it got there more slowly and more painfully to a deeper hole.
 

kliq

Registered User
Dec 17, 2017
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What about Holland?

Lol, at least 10 years! You still hear people complaining about the Legwand trade.

You have to love how a thread about Who should replace Blashill turns into the same rhetoric we’re seeing in half the threads on the board. (This part is not directed at you Gwiwder).
 

Retire91

Stevey Y you our Guy
May 31, 2010
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Lol, at least 10 years! You still hear people complaining about the Legwand trade.

You have to love how a thread about Who should replace Blashill turns into the same rhetoric we’re seeing in half the threads on the board. (This part is not directed at you Gwiwder).

Jarnkrok is still on the roster at Nashville ;)
 

GoBoltz56

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Jul 31, 2004
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I haven't read through the 10 pages of this thread, but now that Yzerman is GM I would not be surprised if he fires Blash after (or during) this season and hires Groulx away from Syracuse.
 

Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
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I haven't read through the 10 pages of this thread, but now that Yzerman is GM I would not be surprised if he fires Blash after (or during) this season and hires Groulx away from Syracuse.
I doubt a guy with no NHL experience at all, not even as a player, gets promoted to head coach. Groulx seems like the sort of guy that needs exposure to the big league by taking an assistant job like Blashill did.

A few people mentioned this before, but if Blash gets fired mid-season, Bylsma gets the job and probably stays the following season as well. I don't see it happening, but that would be the most likely outcome.
 

Retire91

Stevey Y you our Guy
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I don't see a mid-season firing, in the cards. Unless someone that Yzerman has his eye on becomes available. I think if any change happens it will happen in the offseason and that it would have happened by now if it was going to this season.
 
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Retire91

Stevey Y you our Guy
May 31, 2010
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Nah I am not so much concerned about Mike's record as a coach, it's his line combinations and Cleary ice time the last few seasons here made me question his sanity. Really don't want to see that type of hockey again.
 

FMichael

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Dec 22, 2010
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The relationship between Babcock, and Dubas has steadily soured since Dubas took over as GM.

I had a good chuckle watching the Leafs post season presser where Babcock shrugged it all off, but Dubas didn’t, and took the heat (kudos to him).

If the Leafs fall apart again this upcoming spring - I’m certain Babcock will be let go...That said - looking at their history - I wouldn’t be surprised if Yzerman hired Babcock to replace Blashill.
 

FMichael

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Dec 22, 2010
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Nah I am not so much concerned about Mike's record as a coach, it's his line combinations and Cleary ice time the last few seasons here made me question his sanity. Really don't want to see that type of hockey again.
Babcock is certainly a good coach - it’s just his stubbornness - his pounding the square peg into the round hole that’ll drive both the players, and us fans crazy.
 
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Henkka

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Jan 31, 2004
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I don't know is it even funny when it's 100% Kyle Dubas who has built that team in so unblanced way, and Toronto idiots are considering firing Babcock.

Super-offence, crap defence + good goalie who has to stand on his head every nighy. And you expect playoff series wins ehen these regular season kids will disappear at playoff time?

No defence and kid core still too young for playoff success. There's no team which has succeeded with that plan. Ever.

And, in a cap world, that roster construction going all offence + crap defence has lead to high-scoring games and high production leads to high caphits.

And there you are. In your own built hole. In cap problems thanks to inflated scoring and can't fix the defence anymore. Or maybe you can if you trade some scoring kid out for a proven D. And when you fix the defence finally, then all the hockey world will finally see how overpaid the Leafs offence finally will be.

But that's not on Babcock. He has been demanding better defence all the time because he has always succeeded with great defence, knows the winning formula in a cap world, and it's 100% Kyle Dubas thing if he doesn't fix that defence.
 
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Retire91

Stevey Y you our Guy
May 31, 2010
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I agree Babcock is not the problem, if Toronto fires him it's their loss IMO. I wasn't too sure what Shanahan would bring to an organization but seeing the end product as a team lacking a defense is surprising to me. I guess Shanahan fell into the jake gardiner is our savior crowd.
 

NotLeddy

Trust the Yzerscam
Oct 23, 2018
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I don't know is it even funny when it's 100% Kyle Dubas who has built that team in so unblanced way, and Toronto idiots are considering firing Babcock.

Super-offence, crap defence + good goalie who has to stand on his head every nighy. And you expect playoff series wins ehen these regular season kids will disappear at playoff time?

No defence and kid core still too young for playoff success. There's no team which has succeeded with that plan. Ever.

And, in a cap world, that roster construction going all offence + crap defence has lead to high-scoring games and high production leads to high caphits.

And there you are. In your own built hole. In cap problems thanks to inflated scoring and can't fix the defence anymore. Or maybe you can if you trade some scoring kid out for a proven D. And when you fix the defence finally, then all the hockey world will finally see how overpaid the Leafs offence finally will be.

But that's not on Babcock. He has been demanding better defence all the time because he has always succeeded with great defence, knows the winning formula in a cap world, and it's 100% Kyle Dubas thing if he doesn't fix that defence.

Dubas traded for Muzzin and Barrie, it's unfair to say that he hasn't tried to upgrade the defense, even with their limited cap flexibility.
 
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