The fact that they invited them to camp shows that they WANT that element. Hell, the teams that those guys got PTOs with ALL have enforcers (Crombeen, Reaves, Gazdic) in their lineups already and were looking to add MORE. A player making a team on a PTO is extremely rare, regardless of whether or not that player is an enforcer or fighter. Those teams WANT more toughness, but the available players didn't end up getting the job. Happens everyday.
Who will become the Bruins Enforcer???
- Thread starter bruinsfan1970
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The fact that they invited them to camp shows that they WANT that element. Hell, the teams that those guys got PTOs with ALL have enforcers (Crombeen, Reaves, Gazdic) in their lineups already and were looking to add MORE. A player making a team on a PTO is extremely rare, regardless of whether or not that player is an enforcer or fighter. Those teams WANT more toughness, but the available players didn't end up getting the job. Happens everyday.
We'll just ignore the numbers and statistics and go with Bruinsfan46 then. That seems more reasonable.
BlackNgold 84
Known Kellyist
Didn't we hear that fighting would be down coming out of lockout in 2005? they said fighting would be down and out of hockey.. boom the ducks win a cup and teams get tougher.. now with Chicago/LA winning cups with with tough gritty teams that don't fight, and now people view that they need to have a more prolific 4th line.. I think this will be going back and forth for the rest of our lives.
We'll just ignore the numbers and statistics and go with Bruinsfan46 then. That seems more reasonable.
The numbers and statistics are in my favour. These guys don't have NHL contracts. You're using PTOs as evidence that the NHL still wants goons, Ville Leino got a PTO, is Ville Leino wanted by the NHL? A lot of guys get PTOs. You're horribly wrong about this and won't just admit it. And the fact that teams that invited enforcers already employ enforcers, tells me that less and less teams want enforcers. Bissonnette wouldn't have gone to camp with a team that already had Reaves if anybody else wanted him.
Peter Mueller was waived by the same camp that invited Bissonnette...I don't know if that means the NHL is going away from skilled players either as much as they just weren't the correct fits and/or didn't have enough in the tank.
Bissonnette wasn't getting playing time even when enforcers were every night. He's a scrub. The fact that a team was even willing to look at him tells me the enforcer isn't going away just yet. It's still alive at least out west.
The Bruins wanted scoring when they invited Leino. He wasn't their man. The teams that invited the mentioned guys to camp wanted toughness. They didn't cut it. By your logic, the Bruins really didn't want scoring.
Site your numbers and statistics. Show me guys with 5 fights in the league last year that aren't in the league this year. How many supports your "trend?"
I hear 5 faceoff specialists retired last year too. Won't be long before they are out of the league, eh?
Peter Mueller played in Switzerland last year because nobody wanted him. I don't think he's a guy in high demand. If y'all can't see Bissonnette, Westgarth, Barch, Kassian, Parros, etc. all without NHL contracts, Colton Orr and Frazer McLaren in the AHL as a sign of severe decline in enforcers in the NHL I don't know what to say.
Couldn't give two sh*ts if the "enforcer" goes away, gimme middleweights who can hit and get into it through the heat of the moment all day long.
Enforcers going the way of the dodo bird does not equate to fighting going the same way, at all.
Enforcers going the way of the dodo bird does not equate to fighting going the same way, at all.
Parros and Barch both are over 35, I believe. It is a rare fourth liner in the NHL that is over 35. That likely has as much to do with them being out of the league as their role on a club.
OK if they're being cycled out because of age what young enforcers are coming in? If they're still in such demand they're should be new ones replacing them, correct?
Gazdic, Tom Wilson(that's the role he was used in last year at least), Pat Maroon, Roussel's more of a middle weight that can play, but he still popped 10 fights last year. Cody Beach was just throwing for the Blues a couple nights ago, Peluso, Rinaldo is young, Reaves is still on the right side of 30.
Point is, there are plenty. They may be mostly out west, but there are definitely plenty still hanging around.
The only guy you listed who wasn't in the NHL last year was Cody Beach and he isn't starting this year in the NHL. So I agree with you there are still young guys who can fight in the NHL. The handful of NHL enforcers I've listed aren't really being replaced by anybody and there is definitely less "enforcers" this year than last and there weren't even that many last year. Fighting's not dying, and I don't want it to die. The enforcer might not be dying but it's on the severe decline which has been my point all along that maybe the Bruins don't need an enforcer. Especially playing in the East.
And Robins has made the team, and even I'm excited for it. Guy can skate and hit. He's just not gonna have a whole lot of dance partners and as a result may not play many games.
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Replicator
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Replicator
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I think that's a big distinction. And it's not even the entire west, it's specifically the Pacific. So while enforcer types are still getting camp invites, it's really just a handful of bad teams who are actually doubling up on enforcers.
Morris Wanchuk
.......
Sad to see Orr go.. he was not a Code guy.
Ironically its this code BS is what did the goons in. They created this legend so they could fight 40 times a year without doing so and in doing so made themselves a side show.
Ironically its this code BS is what did the goons in. They created this legend so they could fight 40 times a year without doing so and in doing so made themselves a side show.
BoyntBergie
Registered User
- Mar 9, 2004
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We'll just ignore the numbers and statistics and go with Bruinsfan46 then. That seems more reasonable.
You said that every NHL organization employs a heavyweight. They don't, unless your talking about AHL and ECHL affiliates. You're also now lumping guys like Crombeen in as "enforcers". Crombeen? He's a decent 4th liner who can fight. I've never seen him enforce anything in his life. The Crombeens of the league have a future.
The heavyweights who are supposedly employed by every organization don't, unless they can play hockey too.
Who was the Rangers "heavyweight"? And don't tell me Carcillo, Boyle, or Dorsett. Those are guys who can play the game.
Red Wings? Chicago? Kings? Preds? I could go on and on. Those teams have their Clunes/Gaustads/Nolans/Bolligs but those are all guys who can actually play.
I'm really not interested in arguing about this, as I'm not even advocating the trend happening. But it is. If you want to believe otherwise, by all means.
BoyntBergie
Registered User
- Mar 9, 2004
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The conversation keeps bouncing around from "heavyweights/enforcers" to just guys who will fight. Pat Maroon is a punching bag. He's also a good player. Roussel is an agitator who can fight relatively well for one. He's not an enforcer unless you consider Kaleta one. The guys like him and the others you list obviously have futures in the NHL. The McGrattans and such, that some seem to pine for in Boston, don't. They won't be gone overnight, but the day is coming.
Teams often don't start seasons with enforcers. Thing is when the Edmonton and Calgary sideshows role into town and beat up your team, other teams will go out and sign these guys. Robins will get pounded by mcgrattan or gazdic, but he will fight them especially if forced too. I've always been under the impression we should always have an enforcer to play 30 games a year. Play him against the 5 terrible teams that employ one or two enforcers. In May and June sit your enforcer down. Those sideshows will be working on their handicap and our team that has team toughness will or should win out. If our top 3 lines can't beat calgarys top 3 lines then we simply don't deserve to win. Thornton as much as I love him was a horrible body checker. Robins will force other teams hands by drilling players every time he gets the chance.
Lobster57
Registered User
What will happen is one team will find a guy who can play at a good 3rd line level (like he would be in the exact same role even if he couldn't fight at all) AND beat the crap out of pretty much anyone (think Lucic, but not quite as good at hockey). This guy will run over his division for a year or two and then the teams in that division will bring in guys who maybe can't play that well but can keep up with the fisticuffs. Its cyclical. maybe the overall trend is towards less goons, but there will be spikes in the chart. hell the B's in 10/11 caused the rest of the NE to tool up with heavies.
LouJersey
Registered User
Did I hear correctly that the Bruins are 70-31 over the past how many ever years when they have a fight in a game? Was watching the Buffalo telecast and they mentioned it..
BlackNgold 84
Known Kellyist
ODAAT
Registered User
yep and I`ll wager those very "enforcers" will see about the same ice time when the games truly count in the playoffs and their TOI will all look like this 0:00 with a big "healthy scratch" beside their names
Sheppy
Registered User
The Bruins play their best hockey when they're nasty. That's a fact.
This whole "we gotta play nice" bs they're doing now is going to bite them in the rear end.
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