Who was the most undeserving Norris winner in the last 10 seasons?

[Hisch13r]

Subban/Doughty Norris trophies, both of which should of been awarded to karlsson.

went with doughty.

First d-man since leech to go ppg 82 in 82 since leech i think it was

Karlsson played 17 of 48 games in Subban's Norris year...

 

[Hisch13r]

I'm not saying it's necessarily right but in 2016 Karlsson had a +/- of -2 whereas Doughty was a +24, it's exceptionally rare for a Norris winner to have a minus season.

It's almost like +/- is stupid.

 

[Hisch13r]

Fox.

Subban was at least the best offensive defenseman that year.

The only other person who was on Fox's level last year was Makar and he missed 10+ more games. Hedman didn't even deserve to be nominated and wasn't all that good after he got hurt. Dougie was 4th and should've gotten the nomination over Hedman (or any number of guys over Hedman) but he didn't deserve it over Fox. Fox 100% deserved the Norris.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Lidstrom just missed otherwise its slam dunk him. Weber was a force for a number of years & never got rightly recognized for it - travesty IMO.

I voted Fox, but more so b/c the competition. Just didn't feel like there was as clear 'outstanding seasons' from defenseman this year as some in the past. Nothing against Fox (or Makar for that matter).

 

[Pavels Dog]

What was so controversial about Lidstrom's Norris win?

People were so used to Lidström winning Norrises in dominant fashion, completely undebatable, runaway victories.
So when he got one that was more of the "several guys could win it"-fashion (i.e. like nearly every other time the Norris is awarded) people thought he was undeserving.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Man, what a whine fest this thread is.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

I voted Doughty. Karlsson led the league in assists and came 4th in points that year. He had 21 more points then the next best player on the team who was 23 year old Mark Stone. That's insane production for a defenseman.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Due Doughty

 

[BruinsBtn]

It's Subban without a doubt. He was never a good defender and won it because he scored a bunch of powerplay goals in a shortened season.

 

[JackSlater]

I don't find any of these particularly egregious. Karlsson should have won a few more than he did, so I voted for 2017 when he should have won it over Burns. Doughty shouldn't have won in 2016, but he should have in 2018.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Probably Doughty 2016? Don't think any of these are really bad though.

 

[McFlash97]

Adam fn Fox by a country mile.

no playoffs
5 goals
He scored 30 of his 47 points in 24 games against Buffalo, New Jersey and Philadelphia. Mostly secondary assists.

The P.K Subban hate smells a bit odd as Subban was absolutely phenomenal during his Norris year and Montreal was absolutely dynamite because of him. He lead the team in PPG and had 11 goals.

 

[Soundgarden]

Honorable mention to Keith's '14 win when Weber's season was much more impressive in context.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Man, what a whine fest this thread is.

I mean yeah it's literally a thread to complain about something you didn't like lol

 

[Hisch13r]

Adam fn Fox by a country mile.

no playoffs
5 goals
He scored 30 of his 47 points in 24 games against Buffalo, New Jersey and Philadelphia. Mostly secondary assists.

The P.K Subban hate smells a bit odd as Subban was absolutely phenomenal during his Norris year and Montreal was absolutely dynamite because of him. He lead the team in PPG and had 11 goals.

It's almost like there's more to hockey than simple box score stats.

 

[Satoru Gojo]

Not an option but 2011 was Weber's year

Lidstrom is one of the greats for sure but not sure why he got that one

 

[nickdawg95]

Karlsson played 17 of 48 games in Subban's Norris year...

doesn't matter pk sucks

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Adam fn Fox by a country mile.

no playoffs
5 goals
He scored 30 of his 47 points in 24 games against Buffalo, New Jersey and Philadelphia. Mostly secondary assists.

The P.K Subban hate smells a bit odd as Subban was absolutely phenomenal during his Norris year and Montreal was absolutely dynamite because of him. He lead the team in PPG and had 11 goals.

 

[Voight]

Subban/Doughty Norris trophies, both of which should of been awarded to karlsson.

went with doughty.

First d-man since leech to go ppg 82 in 82 since leech i think it was

Definitely not 2013 when Karlsson missed most of the season.

Doughty should have won over Karlsson in 2015.

Lidstrom 2011 is the worst case of " wtf was that?? " reaction when it comes to the Norris.

IIRC it was the closest Norris vote in history and Weber lost by less than a percent.

Subban.

Letang deserved that Norris if they were going to give it to someone that missed a bunch of games.

Same amount of points. Higher PPG. Played more every night. Twice as many 5v5 points. Less sheltered minutes. Etc.

Actually that's Suter.... he was clearly the best d-man in 2013.

I voted Doughty. Karlsson led the league in assists and came 4th in points that year. He had 21 more points then the next best player on the team who was 23 year old Mark Stone. That's insane production for a defenseman.

Karlsson was feed the puck constantly because his team lacked any other offensive talent. He also played lackadaisical if not non existent defense.

It was great that he scored a bunch of points, and the Norris usually goes to said player who does that, but it can also go to guys who are elite at both ends of the ice.

 

[Xspyrit]

Karlsson was feed the puck constantly because his team lacked any other offensive talent. He also played lackadaisical if not non existent defense.

Are we talking about 2015-16 here? The team as a whole massively underperformed (injuries killed them) but that's not true whatsoever.

Mark Stone, Mike Hoffman, Bobby Ryan and Mika Zibanejad all scored over 20 goals and 50 pts. The first 3 were basically 60 pts forwards. Bobby was dealing with several injuries (like basically every season in Ottawa) but was near PPG for the first 52 games (45 pts in 52 GP : 0.87 PPG)

Jean-Gabriel Pageau and Zack Smith had an higher opportunity than usual for the last part of the season and did pretty well. Only time Smith had some extended top-6 TOI and he scored 25 goals that season.

JG Pageau last 34 games : 9 goals 19 assists, 28 pts +19
Zack Smith last 32 games : 16 goals 9 assists, 25 pts +13

Clarke MacArthur missed the whole season due to concussions and Kyle Turris only played 57 GP. He has never really been the same player after the "gumby incident". They should have shut him down right away after that incident because he was a big detriment to the team. In 31 GP after that, he had only 2 goals, 6 assists, 8 pts but was a -22!

Milan Michalek also fell off a cliff (injuries again). There was other injuries too. They also had rookies/young players Ryan Dzingel, Curtis Lazar, Alex Chiasson, Shane Prince and Matt Puempel (these 2 were good in junior and AHL but never succeeded in the NHL) playing a good number of games.

Turris injury :



Not trying to covince you or anything. Just wanted to post this for people who would read your false/misleading statement.

I mean, he didn't play with a McDavid/Kucherov but it could have been much worse than playing with Stone, Hoffman, Ryan, Zibanejad, Turris, Pageau, Smith, Dzingel, etc (and that's despite injuries to Michalek and MacArthur)

All that being said, Erik Karlsson was a "one man breakout" and offense catalyst. That's why he went PPG in 2015-16 (2nd highest Pts by a D-man in the Crosby era, behind Brent Burns who had 83 pts in 2018-19)

 

[Sentinel]

Not an option but 2011 was Weber's year

Lidstrom is one of the greats for sure but not sure why he got that one

Because he got 14 points more than Weber while playing with Ian f***ing White. Do I need to mention which one of them was better at defense?

 

[Fataldogg]

Due Doughty.

 

[Taishici]

If Karlsson would have won in 2016 the Norris then the award would have basically been just an offensive award. He was amazing on offensive, especially 5x5. And he probably should have had more points if Ottawa's power play was better that year. But he was not good at all that year on defensive, I mean at all. I think he might have been on ice for most goals against that year or pretty close to it. He should have won in 2017 though.

Doughty was the right choice in 2016 and for me it's not even debatable. It's actually quite shocking how little Doughty is valued on these boards. If there was a Hockey player of the year, he would have had a good claim for it in 2014. Besides deservedly winning in 2016, he also has a strong argument for the Norris in 2015 and 2018. Plus he's still playing great today. The recent games against Edmonton and Tampa were perfect example of elite all round play from Doughty. Doughty's game against Tampa was almost flawless.

And for the record in 2016 I watched 60 plus full Ottawa games and 60 plus full LA games, plus highlights from the games I missed. For the sole purpose of comparing Karlsson and Doughty. I could probably write a book about that year. I also believe both Karlsson and Doughty were two of the top 10 players in the league this past decade.

 

[wetcoast]

Due Doughty

I thought he was deserving but still gave you a like for this.

 

[bobbyking]

Due Doughty

very clever . to think he beat out 82 point Erik Karlsson