Speculation: Who wants to be President of Hockey OPs; survey says...

[Ice-Tray]

What exactly is the strawman here?
-I said, if the organization turns themselves around under Melnyk's ownership I will eat my hat
-You said - no one ever admits they are wrong
-I said, anyone claiming that the organization is a mess has yet to be proven wrong

I wasn’t saying that no one admits they’re wrong, though few do, it was more when a topic shifts the board rarely if ever goes back and reviews or self evaluates. The few times a poster brings up an old post, they are generally put down for doing so.

My post about circling back was made in general, there are hoards or examples from the draft alone. You came back with a general and popular management and ownership sentiment as though that’s what I was referring to, which it wasn’t.

Anyways, I wasn’t trying to make a serious post here, tongue in cheek that you won’t be eating your hat.

 

[Ice-Tray]

There are multiple teams working with the same constraints Ottawa does, many of those teams find ways to attract and keep talent. In some cases this is given to them like low income tax rates and such, but others just make it desirable to play there.
What is it that makes Ottawa desirable? The prospect to win some games despite the **** show surrounding the team?
The new CBA will soften the blow, but in the end it's still an EM owned, PD run franchise...so players will walk as soon as they can.

I agree, but winning is one of the biggest draws. I think the biggest detractor to big name signings, including our own stars, was that we’re year one of a full blown rebuild, and these guys would be responsible for mentoring for at least a few years, not even trying to drag us into the wildcard.

That’s a lot to ask a guy in the middle or near the end of his prime. I don’t blame any of them for choosing teams that can challenge for a cup, or for Duchene to take UFA for all he can.

I don’t think EM and PD are some sort of huge detractor to people signing. The hate is real in here, but when you don’t hate, you don’t feel it.

 

[RaMai]

I agree, but winning is one of the biggest draws. I think the biggest detractor to big name signings, including our own stars, was that we’re year one of a full blown rebuild, and these guys would be responsible for mentoring for at least a few years, not even trying to drag us into the wildcard.

That’s a lot to ask a guy in the middle or near the end of his prime. I don’t blame any of them for choosing teams that can challenge for a cup, or for Duchene to take UFA for all he can.

I don’t think EM and PD are some sort of huge detractor to people signing. The hate is real in here, but when you don’t hate, you don’t feel it.

I can get behind this, but I'm still hoping for a change in ownership.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

I wasn’t saying that no one admits they’re wrong, though few do, it was more when a topic shifts the board rarely if ever goes back and reviews or self evaluates. The few times a poster brings up an old post, they are generally put down for doing so.

My post about circling back was made in general, there are hoards or examples from the draft alone. You came back with a general and popular management and ownership sentiment as though that’s what I was referring to, which it wasn’t.

Anyways, I wasn’t trying to make a serious post here, tongue in cheek that you won’t be eating your hat.

I came back because that's what our topic was about, ownership and management. I have no idea you were referring to every topic on the Sens board from draft picks to trades.

Anyway yes there is no real reason to deep dive into all the nuances of this. My personal opinion is nothing will get better until the idiot at the top is gone. Whether that's 2 years or 20 from now. You obviously have a different opinion.

 

[GrantLemons]

I agree, but winning is one of the biggest draws. I think the biggest detractor to big name signings, including our own stars, was that we’re year one of a full blown rebuild, and these guys would be responsible for mentoring for at least a few years, not even trying to drag us into the wildcard.

That’s a lot to ask a guy in the middle or near the end of his prime. I don’t blame any of them for choosing teams that can challenge for a cup, or for Duchene to take UFA for all he can.

I don’t think EM and PD are some sort of huge detractor to people signing. The hate is real in here, but when you don’t hate, you don’t feel it.

I would disagree. Organizational culture always plays a large role when you're deciding to join a company. For anyone, including hockey players. It's naive to think higher profile free agents won't do their own due diligence on the organization before committing.

I'm not suggesting guys simply won't come here because of that, but if we're competing with another team, they may choose them over us because of it.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I came back because that's what our topic was about, ownership and management. I have no idea you were referring to every topic on the Sens board from draft picks to trades.

Anyway yes there is no real reason to deep dive into all the nuances of this. My personal opinion is nothing will get better until the idiot at the top is gone. Whether that's 2 years or 20 from now. You obviously have a different opinion.

I have some hope, because I’m not sure the owner is selling anytime soon, nor do necessarily think a new owner is going to save the day.

We may have to save ourselves folks, as is usually the case.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

So are we getting one or not? lol

 

[Ice-Tray]

I would disagree. Organizational culture always plays a large role when you're deciding to join a company. For anyone, including hockey players. It's naive to think higher profile free agents won't do their own due diligence on the organization before committing.

I'm not suggesting guys simply won't come here because of that, but if we're competing with another team, they may choose them over us because of it.

I agree with you for the most part.

Where we differ in thinking I think is that I don’t think the organization is as bad as people in here think it is, nor do I think the players carry nearly the same hate for the owner or GM, or at all really. Someone earlier posted about an interview with Wideman I think it was, where he talked about how old the players are treated by the organization. All you really need to do is look at BT and how the organization is building it’s identity around him, and to an extension his family name.

Everyone involved loves the Sens, from the owner to the fans, we all just got disconnected from each other along the way because the owner is a dislikable character, and the fans are in no mood for forgiveness or reconciliation.

I personally think that every single poster in here would jump at the chance to have a mean full job with the Sens, all while claiming that PD is a coward for not standing up and quitting in principle.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The grass is always greener when you're living in a swamp.

but you never go hungry when you live in a swamp

 

[2CHAINZ]

but you never go hungry when you live in a swamp

I once farted on the set of Blue Lagoon

 

[Micklebot]

I agree with you for the most part.

Where we differ in thinking I think is that I don’t think the organization is as bad as people in here think it is, nor do I think the players carry nearly the same hate for the owner or GM, or at all really. Someone earlier posted about an interview with Wideman I think it was, where he talked about how old the players are treated by the organization. All you really need to do is look at BT and how the organization is building it’s identity around him, and to an extension his family name.

Everyone involved loves the Sens, from the owner to the fans, we all just got disconnected from each other along the way because the owner is a dislikable character, and the fans are in no mood for forgiveness or reconciliation.

I personally think that every single poster in here would jump at the chance to have a mean full job with the Sens, all while claiming that PD is a coward for not standing up and quitting in principle.

The org used to have a very good reputation around the league, not sure how it is these days. I remember Bobby Ryan taking up the org shortly after arriving. I think Murray had a big part in ensuring players were treated well, don't know if Dorion is the same way.

 

[Ice-Tray]

The org used to have a very good reputation around the league, not sure how it is these days. I remember Bobby Ryan taking up the org shortly after arriving. I think Murray had a big part in ensuring players were treated well, don't know if Dorion is the same way.

True, though I’m not sure the organization treats it’s players any different. It’s been under siege in the media, but I think the players are still treated well.

Even the big three seemed to have been traded to good fits (absolutely could have been coincidental).

PD was mentored by BM, and lives his drafted players. It’s easy for me to think that he has kept in the tradition of taking care of the players on the team. I mean, players have always said they wanted to stay, money seems to be the issue.

 

[BonkTastic]

The org used to have a very good reputation around the league, not sure how it is these days. I remember Bobby Ryan taking up the org shortly after arriving. I think Murray had a big part in ensuring players were treated well, don't know if Dorion is the same way.

It's a shame that it took his death and absence from the team for a huge chunk of the Sens fanbase to appreciate just how good Bryan Murray was at his job.

Did he miss on some trades? Sure he did. But it's becoming more and more clear that his main job within the org apparently was in making sure the hockey ops ran as smoothly as it did and managing the owner to a degree that we were actually able to hide the crazyness behind the curtain and get things done.

 

[GrantLemons]

True, though I’m not sure the organization treats it’s players any different. It’s been under siege in the media, but I think the players are still treated well.

Even the big three seemed to have been traded to good fits (absolutely could have been coincidental).

PD was mentored by BM, and lives his drafted players. It’s easy for me to think that he has kept in the tradition of taking care of the players on the team. I mean, players have always said they wanted to stay, money seems to be the issue.

To be fair, the players wouldn't say to the media that they wanted out because it was a shit show. I think it was probably both money and shit show.

Not to say Pierre is a bad guy, but I just dont think he can read a room to save his life. Him allegedly going into the room after Duchene, Dzingel, and Stone were dealt and tearing a strip off them with the "this isn't acceptable" speech is kind of insane to me (if true). The appropriate speech would probably have been something like "I know I just traded the most important guys in here and I know things are tough, but I'm going to do everything I can to get this thing back on track asap, we just need to keep going out there and working as hard as we can etc".

Same thing when Stone was traded. His media appearances should have been "This is a really tough day for everyone, especially the fans, as we all loved Mark and what he did for the team the last 7-8 years etc." And instead he's just spouting off about Brannstrom and how it's the greatest day of his life or whatever. A little empathy would have gone a long, long way in making that trade easier to swallow.

IMO Pierre is a fine human, and a great person overall. I also think he's really not good at leading people.

Slightly OT but I actually read a quote from Craig Anderson the other day about how he honored Bryan on his mask after he passed. He said something like "It was a no-brainer. My career took a drastic turn for the better as soon as I met Bryan". I thought that was an awesome quote, and perfectly encapsulates the respect level that pretty much everyone had for Bryan.

 

[bert]

Yes bert, no plan, unbelievable, nailed as usual

The permanent look on your face must be that of gobsmack given how often you’re incredulous, pained, and in a state of disbelief.

The mental image gave me a chuckle at least.

So you think the plan all along was to rebuild without their first round pick then?

 

[KnuckChuckinTkachuk]

To be fair, the players wouldn't say to the media that they wanted out because it was a **** show. I think it was probably both money and **** show.

Not to say Pierre is a bad guy, but I just dont think he can read a room to save his life. Him allegedly going into the room after Duchene, Dzingel, and Stone were dealt and tearing a strip off them with the "this isn't acceptable" speech is kind of insane to me (if true). The appropriate speech would probably have been something like "I know I just traded the most important guys in here and I know things are tough, but I'm going to do everything I can to get this thing back on track asap, we just need to keep going out there and working as hard as we can etc".

Same thing when Stone was traded. His media appearances should have been "This is a really tough day for everyone, especially the fans, as we all loved Mark and what he did for the team the last 7-8 years etc." And instead he's just spouting off about Brannstrom and how it's the greatest day of his life or whatever. A little empathy would have gone a long, long way in making that trade easier to swallow.

IMO Pierre is a fine human, and a great person overall. I also think he's really not good at leading people.

Slightly OT but I actually read a quote from Craig Anderson the other day about how he honored Bryan on his mask after he passed. He said something like "It was a no-brainer. My career took a drastic turn for the better as soon as I met Bryan". I thought that was an awesome quote, and perfectly encapsulates the respect level that pretty much everyone had for Bryan.

This x 1000... PD is not some horrid human being, he's just not good at everything Bryan Murray was (comms, managing the owner, interpersonal/people skills).

 

[Larionov]

Depending on how unhappy Bettman and the Board of Governors are with the Ottawa situation, I could see a scenario where the NHL actually hires a President of Hockey Ops and installs him over Eugene's objections, with instructions to report back to, say, Bill Daly as to what is going on in Ottawa. Keep in mind that Eugene allegedly owes the NHL a significant amount of money as well that they have fronted him over the years, so he is not in a position to fight with them too extensively. This would be a pretty extreme measure, but again, if the Board of Governors is growing weary of the revenue sharing money they keep having to send here it is a possibility. (It would also be a not-so-subtle hint to sell.)

 

[Ice-Tray]

So you think the plan all along was to rebuild without their first round pick then?

Good question, No, I think the plan to rebuild was hatched as a result of the team dropping to the bottom of the standings even after trading for Duchene. I think it became an option when even with the big three we plummeted to the bottom of the standings. It was then that it was apparent that this core was not the one, it wasn’t an add or two away, it just didn’t have it.

I think there was an attempt to keep things going perhaps, but when it was clear that EK was likely not going to sign I’m sure that was the final straw.

Look, not having a pick this year sucked, but you can’t just not rebuild because it’s inconvenient. We would have had to sign Stone and Duchene to huge deals, and try and add a bunch more, to a team that had just finished dead last in the league, in hopes that we could cobble together a contending team, just because we didn’t have a first?

No, we took our lumps on a lost gamble after the ECF run and moved on. I mean had we tried to string something together we have been stuck in mediocrity for another huge stretch, and we would all have been angry anyways.

PD ripped the bandaid off, and we got BT in the mix and a boat load of picks in these three drafts. The team is being built from scratch around TC, BT, And the rest.

Maybe it I’ll be the core that does it, and maybe not, but I like what I see so far, and I like that we have finally started a rebuild from scratch. We seem to be building from the net out and piling up Quality prospects.

Time will tell, but it’s something to look forward to seeing play out for some Sens fans.

I know you don’t see things the way I do Bert, and that’s ok, it’s all good.

 

[bert]

Depending on how unhappy Bettman and the Board of Governors are with the Ottawa situation, I could see a scenario where the NHL actually hires a President of Hockey Ops and installs him over Eugene's objections, with instructions to report back to, say, Bill Daly as to what is going on in Ottawa. Keep in mind that Eugene allegedly owes the NHL a significant amount of money as well that they have fronted him over the years, so he is not in a position to fight with them too extensively. This would be a pretty extreme measure, but again, if the Board of Governors is growing weary of the revenue sharing money they keep having to send here it is a possibility. (It would also be a not-so-subtle hint to sell.)

This would be the next best thing to Melnyk selling, but its basically taking over the NHL team by the league I dont see that happening.

 

[bert]

Good question, No, I think the plan to rebuild was hatched as a result of the team dropping to the bottom of the standings even after trading for Duchene. I think it became an option when even with the big three we plummeted to the bottom of the standings. It was then that it was apparent that this core was not the one, it wasn’t an add or two away, it just didn’t have it.

I think there was an attempt to keep things going perhaps, but when it was clear that EK was likely not going to sign I’m sure that was the final straw.

Look, not having a pick this year sucked, but you can’t just not rebuild because it’s inconvenient. We would have had to sign Stone and Duchene to huge deals, and try and add a bunch more, to a team that had just finished dead last in the league, in hopes that we could cobble together a contending team, just because we didn’t have a first?

No, we took our lumps on a lost gamble after the ECF run and moved on. I mean had we tried to string something together we have been stuck in mediocrity for another huge stretch, and we would all have been angry anyways.

PD ripped the bandaid off, and we got BT in the mix and a boat load of picks in these three drafts. The team is being built from scratch around TC, BT, And the rest.

Maybe it I’ll be the core that goes it, and maybe not, but I like what I see so far, and I like that we have finally started a rebuild from scratch.

Time will tell, but it’s something to look forward to seeing play out for some Sens fans.

I know you don’t see things the way I do Bert, and that’s ok, it’s all good.

They didnt get Tkachuk because they ripped off the bandaid, they got him when they finished second last when they put all their eggs in one basket. It was absolutely horrid judgement by the GM. He is still in charge making all the decisions. They should have signed Stone to a huge deal no matter what the scenario he is a top 10 forward that was drafted and developed by the team at 26 years old.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Naw, he went all in like GMs do from time to time. Columbus is about to deal with the consequences as well.

It’s pro sports, you’re allowed to go all in, especially when you’re about to lose your star.

It would have been nice to sign Stone, but you guys always act as though it was in the bag save for PD, but that’s not how it works.

Stone waited until the last minute to make a decision, and he took a massive deal. I wanted him to sign with us for the rebuild, but it looks like he ended up too rich for our blood, and I honestly don’t mind at this point.

Stone signed for 8 years wasn’t going to make us contenders, his role was to mentor the kids. We already rode home and Duchene to a dead last finish.

 

[JungleBeat]

Naw, he went all in like GMs do from time to time. Columbus is about to deal with the consequences as well.

Went all in how? Adding just Duchene with the subtraction of Turris isn’t going “all in”

 

[JD1]

So you think the plan all along was to rebuild without their first round pick then?

Come on Bert, you're smarter than that. I think it's pretty evident that the "plan" when they acquired Duchene was to keep some playoff revenue flowing. We were in ok position at the time, Duchene was an upgrade on Turrus, get to the TDL and assess the need and if we are lucky maybe we can get a half dozen home playoff dates.

Of course we went completely in the shitter in the few months that followed that trade not all of which stems from that trade

Surely Bert what I just laid out here makes more sense to you than rebuilding without a 1st.

 

[Knave]

Come on Bert, you're smarter than that. I think it's pretty evident that the "plan" when they acquired Duchene was to keep some playoff revenue flowing. We were in ok position at the time, Duchene was an upgrade on Turrus, get to the TDL and assess the need and if we are lucky maybe we can get a half dozen home playoff dates.

Of course we went completely in the ****ter in the few months that followed that trade not all of which stems from that trade

Surely Bert what I just laid out here makes more sense to you than rebuilding without a 1st.

That's alot of nonsense to justify the stupidest decisions relating to player and roster decisions in Sens franchise history.

"C'mon". No. That's not a good explanation.

 

[bert]

Naw, he went all in like GMs do from time to time. Columbus is about to deal with the consequences as well.

It’s pro sports, you’re allowed to go all in, especially when you’re about to lose your star.

It would have been nice to sign Stone, but you guys always act as though it was in the bag save for PD, but that’s not how it works.

Stone waited until the last minute to make a decision, and he took a massive deal. I wanted him to sign with us for the rebuild, but it looks like he ended up too rich for our blood, and I honestly don’t mind at this point.

Stone signed for 8 years wasn’t going to make us contenders, his role was to mentor the kids. We already rode home and Duchene to a dead last finish.

Lol man Stone signed for 8 years makes the team better in every single way mentor kids win later etc. If they ever did become a contender he would have been the captain most important piece and best player on the team.

Blaming Stone for not signing here is complete and utter bullshit. Its what the organization pushed through their lacky Bruce Garrioch. Its came out in the Dreger cafe that they werent willing to pay and it was confirmed by Brent Wallace. Its the most prime example of what is fundamentally wrong with this organization.

1. They cant identify elite talent and character. George McPhee literally said it himself players dont become available like this.

2. They lie to the fanbase over and over again. Specifically try and manipulate us with propeganda

3. They do not negotiate in good faith.

4. They patronize us. Pierre Dorion and i quote 'this is best day of my life' while trading an all time great in his prime for peanuts.

You want to keep coming back for this? Fine by me but anyone that does is an absolute sucker.