Speculation: Who should the Canucks trade for Drouin

[Wildcarder]

Talent-wise I certainly like Drouin way more than Virtanen and a fair bit more than McCann.

But it comes down to attitude, and there's a fair argument on both sides. If you think it's all on TB, then fair enough, getting Drouin is a steal of a lifetime, but if you think the way he's handling the situation is indicative of a dangerous entitlement complex then it's fair to go with the guys that don't have that cloud over their heads.



This really goes to the heart of how people interpret a guy sitting at home rather than fighting through adversity. I get that you don't take that angle with him, but there are a lot of people that flag that worry.



This is getting a bit into personal perspectives, but for what it's worth, yes, I would play through the situation. The way I was raised by my parents, by my hockey coaches, in cadets, and my time in business and politics one thing I've learned is that bad things happen and it's up to you to make the most of it. If sent down, then be the best teammate imaginable, use the opportunity to learn and improve your skills and showcase not only your talent but your character, a guy who can be counted on to always be there, even when it's not the ideal situation. In business and in work I've been in situations where I got a crappy deal/assignment, but to pout and wait for a better opportunity was a bad call, bust your ass and people will fight to bring you either up in the organization or to a better opportunity somewhere else. In politics I've had Ministers who've been assigned "sacrificial" portfolios that always scars careers, the leaders who handled it best were the ones who embraced it as an opportunity to show they can handle the toughest files no one else wanted.

When I was a wee little cadet it was impressed upon us that all Generals and Admirals start by digging trenches, those that do it with the most enthusiasm and least complaint are the ones who move ahead, no matter what else you have to offer.

If there are extracurricular things going on in TB then fair enough, I don't know that and there could be reasons they're being unfair to him and he's taking a principled stand. But if it's for the reasons we've been given, no, I personally wouldn't sit out. I'd "play every game like it's my last", not take anything including my NHL status for granted, and trust that performing like that makes me a better player, someone with the character to fight through adversity for that time when I'll be in the Stanley Cup playoffs, and that the improvement to my play and the way I'm showcasing the player I am makes me more valuable for the rest of my career and is worth the admitted risk that I may get hurt doing it.

Study up on the champions in any field, business, politics, sports or the arts, and a common refrain is that they take nothing for granted and give it their all no matter what the circumstances, fair or not.

Well written and absolutely agreed here.

 

[Horse McHindu]

I might be on board with Mathonwy's suggestion for McCann + 2016 1st

I might be on board with Mathonwy's suggestion for McCann + 2016 1st

Losing McCann would suck, but given that we have Henrik, Horvat, and Sutter as our top 3 centers over the next two seasons, combined with the fact that guys like Cassels and Gaunce are in our system, along with the slowly-improving Vey, I'm wondering if McCann truly is expendable?

Sedin-Sedin-Hansen
Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen
Drouin-Vey-Etem
Burrows-Sutter-Dorsett

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

i might be on board with mathonwy's suggestion for mccann + 2016 1st

losing mccann would suck, but given that we have henrik, horvat, and sutter as our top 3 centers over the next two seasons, combined with the fact that guys like cassels and gaunce are in our system, along with the slowly-improving vey, i'm wondering if mccann truly is expendable?

Sedin-sedin-hansen
baertschi-horvat-virtanen
drouin-vey-etem
burrows-sutter-dorsett

dont trade your own first round pick when your team sucks.
Omg, people havent learn anything from 2010 toronto?

 

[Horse McHindu]

dont trade your own first round pick when your team sucks.
Omg, people havent learn anything from 2010 toronto?

Fear of loss seems to be your mindset.

Even with high 1st round picks, there are no guarantees. You could draft the next Tyler Seguin, or you could draft the next David Legwand. Even worse, you could draft the next Patrik Stefan.

Drouin was a 3rd overall pick two seasons ago, and stats seem to indicate that he was a product of a bad environment rather than he himself being "bad."

As far as the Canucks go, yes, we suck, but we aren't slated to be in the bottom 3 either. If the Canucks were ranked 28-30th, I would agree with you, but it looks like we're more likely to finish 22nd-25th, than 28th-30th.

p.s.________________As far as Toronto/Boston goes, Toronto got some very solid seasons out of Kessel. So yes - while they inadvertently gave up Seguin, it's not like they pulled a Barry Pederson-Cam Neely either.

 

[Huggy]

I might be on board with Mathonwy's suggestion for McCann + 2016 1st

Losing McCann would suck, but given that we have Henrik, Horvat, and Sutter as our top 3 centers over the next two seasons, combined with the fact that guys like Cassels and Gaunce are in our system, along with the slowly-improving Vey, I'm wondering if McCann truly is expendable?

Sedin-Sedin-Hansen
Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen
Drouin-Vey-Etem
Burrows-Sutter-Dorsett

Burn it with fire. Now.

 

[Huggy]

Sorry to suggest trading mccann and a 1st for a scrub like drouin. Is so astronomically dumb it makes the sbisa signing and vey deal look like michal angelos sistine chapel.

Do not trade a 1st or mcccann. If we do i will no longer invest.

Worst trade of all time.

 

[Canucker]

So we possibly give up a Sean Monahan, or a Morgan Reilly, or a Rasmus Ristolainen AND a Jared McCann for Drouin? I like Drouin, but no thanks...that's an over payment I don't make at this stage.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Burn it with fire. Now.

2005

1 Sidney Crosby (C)
2 Bobby Ryan (RW)
3 Jack Johnson (D)
4 Benoit Pouliot (LW)
5 Carey Price (G)

2006:

Erik Johnson (D)
Jordan Staal (C)
Jonathan Toews (C)
Nicklas Backstrom (C)
Phil Kessel (RW)

2007:

1 Patrick Kane (RW) (superstar)
2 James van Riemsdyk (LW)
3 Kyle Turris (C)
4 Thomas Hickey (D)
5 Karl Alzner (D)

2008:

1 Steven Stamkos (C)
2 Drew Doughty (D)
3 Zach Bogosian (D)
4 Alex Pietrangelo (D)
5 Luke Schenn (D)

2009:

1 John Tavares
2 Victor Hedman
3 Matt Duchene
4 Evander Kane
5 Brayden Schenn

2010:

1 Taylor Hall (LW)
2 Tyler Seguin (C)
3 Erik Gudbranson (D)
4 Ryan Johansen (C)
5 Nino Niederreiter (LW)

2011:

1 Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (C)
2 Gabriel Landeskog (RW)
3 Jonathan Huberdeau (C)
4 Adam Larsson (D)
5 Ryan Strome (C)

2012:

1 Nail Yakupov (RW)
2 Ryan Murray (D)
3 Alex Galchenyuk (C)
4 Griffin Reinhart (D)
5 Morgan Rielly (D)

2013:

1 Nathan MacKinnon (C)
2 Aleksander Barkov, Jr. (C)
3 Jonathan Drouin (LW)
4 Seth Jones (D)
5 Elias Lindholm (C)

I haven't included 2014 or 2015 yet as it's way too early to pass any kind of judgement.

Anyway, based on these 45 Top 5 picks, I'd say that at least 18 of those haven't quite lived up to expectations.

If you have time to go through the re-drafts of those drafts, you'd also realize that often times, a number of the best picks were not in the Top 5.

There is a huge advantage in drafting at or near the top obviously, but there are plenty of landmines as well. Drafting at or near the top is far from a "sure thing."

 

[coastal_nuck]

Yeah, I'm not willing to trade our first for Drouin at this point. McCann and a 2nd? Maybe. But not a first.

 

[Horse McHindu]

So we possibly give up a Sean Monahan, or a Morgan Reilly, or a Rasmus Ristolainen AND a Jared McCann for Drouin? I like Drouin, but no thanks...that's an over payment I don't make at this stage.

It's also possible that we give up a Brett Connolly, Luke Schenn, Erik Johnson, AND a Jared McCann for a Drouin (i.e. a guy that according to advanced stats, has actually played quite well in Tampa and just might be a part of a bad environment).

#TwoSidesToEveryCoin

 

[Cogburn]

I think I could live with a first being given up, but not if McCann is the other piece.

What happened to Edler for Drouin+Carle? That was well received, as much as losing Edler would hurt.

 

[brokenhole]

2005

1 Sidney Crosby (C)
2 Bobby Ryan (RW)
3 Jack Johnson (D)
4 Benoit Pouliot (LW)
5 Carey Price (G)

2006:

Erik Johnson (D)
Jordan Staal (C)
Jonathan Toews (C)
Nicklas Backstrom (C)
Phil Kessel (RW)

2007:

1 Patrick Kane (RW) (superstar)
2 James van Riemsdyk (LW)
3 Kyle Turris (C)
4 Thomas Hickey (D)
5 Karl Alzner (D)

2008:

1 Steven Stamkos (C)
2 Drew Doughty (D)
3 Zach Bogosian (D)
4 Alex Pietrangelo (D)
5 Luke Schenn (D)

2009:

1 John Tavares
2 Victor Hedman
3 Matt Duchene
4 Evander Kane
5 Brayden Schenn

2010:

1 Taylor Hall (LW)
2 Tyler Seguin (C)
3 Erik Gudbranson (D)
4 Ryan Johansen (C)
5 Nino Niederreiter (LW)

2011:

1 Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (C)
2 Gabriel Landeskog (RW)
3 Jonathan Huberdeau (C)
4 Adam Larsson (D)
5 Ryan Strome (C)

2012:

1 Nail Yakupov (RW)
2 Ryan Murray (D)
3 Alex Galchenyuk (C)
4 Griffin Reinhart (D)
5 Morgan Rielly (D)

2013:

1 Nathan MacKinnon (C)
2 Aleksander Barkov, Jr. (C)
3 Jonathan Drouin (LW)
4 Seth Jones (D)
5 Elias Lindholm (C)

I haven't included 2014 or 2015 yet as it's way too early to pass any kind of judgement.

Anyway, based on these 45 Top 5 picks, I'd say that at least 18 of those haven't quite lived up to expectations.

If you have time to go through the re-drafts of those drafts, you'd also realize that often times, a number of the best picks were not in the Top 5.

There is a huge advantage in drafting at or near the top obviously, but there are plenty of landmines as well. Drafting at or near the top is far from a "sure thing."

By the way the Canucks have tracked so far they might have a legit shot at the top 5 in this years draft. I would keep that pick and McCann. Drouin comes with baggage that could turn into a nightmare in future contract negotiations 40-50 point player that wants a 100 point contract, too many red flags that cancel out his supposed potential.

 

[Cogburn]

It's also possible that we give up a Brett Connolly, Luke Schenn, Erik Johnson, AND a Jared McCann for a Drouin (i.e. a guy that according to advanced stats, has actually played quite well in Tampa and just might be a part of a bad environment).

#TwoSidesToEveryCoin

Still tough to do, Some of the "less then expectations" guys are still fine NHL players. Turris, Staal, either Johnson, JVR Bogo, Alzner....all of them with McCann would be an overpayment.

Pouliot, Connolly, Luke Schenn...these are the exceptions. Until we see them in action it's like saying Virtanen and McCann though,another young player with the chance to be an impact player, until he does something to not be.

 

[VC]

Like Dourin, would be a nice add. I wouldn't move the little prim assets unless it was for the teams actual need, #1C or D.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

McCann+A top ten pick for Drouin? Omg are you people serious??

 

[Horse McHindu]

McCann + Cody Hodgson for Drouin. omg are you people serious?!?!

Like I said (and proved) - high 1st round picks are great, but aren't necessarily guarantees. In the list above that I posted, I proved that 18 of the those 45 picks in the Top 45 between 2006-2013 did not come close to meeting expectations.

Drouin hasn't exactly lit it up either but advanced stats show that he's actually played quite well in Tampa and was more of a product of a bad environment and mis-use. I'm normally quite critical someone if they show traces of 'primadonna' but in Drouin's case, he might have a valid case. Drouin is also closer to the age group of Horvat, Baertschi, Hutton, etc., and so if the Canucks are looking for a more immediate impact from their next core once the twins retire, it might be a wise move to make a pitch for Drouin.

 

[Black Noise]

Fear of loss seems to be your mindset.

Even with high 1st round picks, there are no guarantees. You could draft the next Tyler Seguin, or you could draft the next David Legwand. Even worse, you could draft the next Patrik Stefan.

Drouin was a 3rd overall pick two seasons ago, and stats seem to indicate that he was a product of a bad environment rather than he himself being "bad."

As far as the Canucks go, yes, we suck, but we aren't slated to be in the bottom 3 either. If the Canucks were ranked 28-30th, I would agree with you, but it looks like we're more likely to finish 22nd-25th, than 28th-30th.

p.s.________________As far as Toronto/Boston goes, Toronto got some very solid seasons out of Kessel. So yes - while they inadvertently gave up Seguin, it's not like they pulled a Barry Pederson-Cam Neely either.

David Legwand has 600 points in 1100 games. If the Canucks can draft a player with their pick this year and he goes on to put up those stats I think everyone will be incredibly happy. The Canucks have only drafted 5 players with over 1000 games in their entire history.

Also, saying you could also draft the next Patrik Stefan is dumb because he is such an anomaly it's not even worth using him as an example. Odds are Top 5 picks end up being useful and productive NHLers, I'd say lets keep our pick and McCann. Trading our first because of the "unknown" factor is just plain stupid.

Also, all the players you bolded may not have met expectations, but the majority are good NHLers.

 

[Bobby Digital]

McCann + Cody Hodgson for Drouin. omg are you people serious?!?!

Like I said (and proved) - high 1st round picks are great, but aren't necessarily guarantees. In the list above that I posted, I proved that 18 of the those 45 picks in the Top 45 between 2006-2013 did not come close to meeting expectations.

Drouin hasn't exactly lit it up either but advanced stats show that he's actually played quite well in Tampa and was more of a product of a bad environment and mis-use. I'm normally quite critical someone if they show traces of 'primadonna' but in Drouin's case, he might have a valid case. Drouin is also closer to the age group of Horvat, Baertschi, Hutton, etc., and so if the Canucks are looking for a more immediate impact from their next core once the twins retire, it might be a wise move to make a pitch for Drouin.

I literally never agree with anything you say lmao. Trading our 1st round pick this year would be incredibly dumb. We need to keep adding prospects to the system. This year's top 10 is looking pretty good and with the lottery giving up our pick just doesn't make sense. If we were smart we'd flip Hamhius, Hansen and Vrbata at the TDL. Hopefully get a 1st round pick or 2. Then we could offer McCann, one of those 1st and something small.

 

[Horse McHindu]

David Legwand has 600 points in 1100 games. If the Canucks can draft a player with their pick this year and he goes on to put up those stats I think everyone will be incredibly happy. The Canucks have only drafted 5 players with over 1000 games in their entire history.

Also, saying you could also draft the next Patrik Stefan is dumb because he is such an anomaly it's not even worth using him as an example. Odds are Top 5 picks end up being useful and productive NHLers, I'd say lets keep our pick and McCann. Trading our first because of the "unknown" factor is just plain stupid.

Also, all the players you bolded may not have met expectations, but the majority are good NHLers.

I agree with everything you're saying, and perhaps my use of David Legwand as an example is a bit direspectful given his longevity as a player and what he meant to the Nashville franchise, but lets face it - no one is going to call the guy a superstar. Period.

This is my personal opinion, but I think Drouin is going to be a superstar in this league. He hasn't gotten off to the greatest start as of yet, but advanced stats don't lie. I'm not sure if you've actually seen Drouin play, but the kid definitely has some serious talent.

What I also like about Drouin is that he's in his 20's and has already been through some growing pains. It's not completely inconceivable to believe that he'll "break out" big time over the next 1-2 years.......a time in which the twins could retire.

The Canucks will finish low this year when all is said and done, but I don't think we'll fall far enough to the point of being 28-30.

So if we can't draft Top 3 on our own accord, why not trade for a recent Top 3 pick that is available, and is an 'advanced stats' darling. People on here seem to love 'advanced stats' so why not use it in Drouin's case eh?

 

[The Drop]

1 Nathan MacKinnon (C)
2 Aleksander Barkov, Jr. (C)
3 Jonathan Drouin (LW)
4 Seth Jones (D)
5 Elias Lindholm (C)

I haven't included 2014 or 2015 yet as it's way too early to pass any kind of judgement.

Anyway, based on these 45 Top 5 picks, I'd say that at least 18 of those haven't quite lived up to expectations.

If you have time to go through the re-drafts of those drafts, you'd also realize that often times, a number of the best picks were not in the Top 5.

There is a huge advantage in drafting at or near the top obviously, but there are plenty of landmines as well. Drafting at or near the top is far from a "sure thing."

You forgot to bold Drouin as the guy from his draft year who hasn't lived up to expectations

 

[Horse McHindu]

I literally never agree with anything you say lmao. Trading our 1st round pick this year would be incredibly dumb.

The reason why you think it's dumb, is because you likely have this image in your head of our 1st round selection being the next Tyler Seguin, when it could just as easily be a Bryan Allen or a Cody Hodgson.

Drouin is a Top 3 overall pick and was drafted only 2 seasons ago. Is he a sure thing? Hardly. Is he a bust. Nope, too early to tell, but advanced stats seriously indicate that his environment could be more to blame than him.

We need to keep adding prospects to the system.

I would argue that at some point, the Canucks should try trading 4 green houses for a hotel. Talents like Drouin aren't always made available. Why not trade for 20-22 year old potentially elite talents as opposed to hanging on to many 18-19 year old wildcards?

This year's top 10 is looking pretty good and with the lottery giving up our pick just doesn't make sense. If we were smart we'd flip Hamhius, Hansen and Vrbata at the TDL. Hopefully get a 1st round pick or 2. Then we could offer McCann, one of those 1st and something small.

I'd hold onto Hansen. Hansen will fetch a 2nd rounder at best and I believe he'd be far more valuable to us as a teammate/mentor as opposed to a draft pick. Move Hansen in the final year of his contract.

Vrbata - I completely agree. Move him. Ideally a first, more realistically a 2nd.

Hamhuis - Move him with the expectation that he'll land us a 1st rounder AND that we can re-sign him in the off-season. I don't like the idea of moving Hamhuis and not replacing him with a veteran D. Canucks are thin on D as is and the last thing you want to do is make a thin defense even thinner. A big priority for the Canucks right now should be in protecting and developing Hutton. Next season - I'd like to see Hutton get traces and sniffs of Top 4 duty as the #4 guy, but I do NOT want to see Hutton over-exerted to the point where he's being forced into Top 4 or even Top 2 duty.....and potentially ruining his confidence. In moving Hamhuis, we also have to think about Markstrom. If we move Hamhuis and do not re-sign him (or sign another veteran D in the off-season), how will a weakened Canucks D affect Markstrom's development?

 

[CanaFan]

I agree with everything you're saying, and perhaps my use of David Legwand as an example is a bit direspectful given his longevity as a player and what he meant to the Nashville franchise, but lets face it - no one is going to call the guy a superstar. Period.

This is my personal opinion, but I think Drouin is going to be a superstar in this league. He hasn't gotten off to the greatest start as of yet, but advanced stats don't lie. I'm not sure if you've actually seen Drouin play, but the kid definitely has some serious talent.

What I also like about Drouin is that he's in his 20's and has already been through some growing pains. It's not completely inconceivable to believe that he'll "break out" big time over the next 1-2 years.......a time in which the twins could retire.

The Canucks will finish low this year when all is said and done, but I don't think we'll fall far enough to the point of being 28-30.

So if we can't draft Top 3 on our own accord, why not trade for a recent Top 3 pick that is available, and is an 'advanced stats' darling. People on here seem to love 'advanced stats' so why not use it in Drouin's case eh?

Eh, if you want to find arbitrage based on advanced stats I'd rather go pick up Kirby Rychel from CBJ for way less. His points/60 and shots/60 blow Drouin's out of the water both this year and last and apparently he has asked for a trade too.

I'd happily pick up Drouin if the price was right, but McCann and a 5-8 pick is not right. Not based on what Drouin has shown so far.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Fear of loss seems to be your mindset.

Even with high 1st round picks, there are no guarantees. You could draft the next Tyler Seguin, or you could draft the next David Legwand. Even worse, you could draft the next Patrik Stefan.

When David Legwand was Drouin's age, he was putting up 40 points in his second NHL season, not sitting at home sulking.

 

[Shareefruck]

Can we please all agree to stop using "There are no guarantees" in our arguments?

It's completey meaningless, adds zero value or credibility to your reasoning, and it's so instinctively obvious that everyone has already considered it.

There's this feeling that saying it makes you feel more level headed, but it's actually the complete opposite-- It suggests that you only want to deal in black-and-white absolutes. The rest of us are dealing with probabilities and likelihoods, and saying that "there are no guarantees" has absolutely no bearing on that.

Ditto with "Anything can happen". It's not valid reasoning.

 

[CanaFan]

Can we please all agree to stop using "There are no guarantees" in our arguments?

It's completey meaningless, adds zero value or credibility to your reasoning, and it's so instinctively obvious that everyone has already considered it.

There's this feeling that saying it makes you feel more level headed, but it's actually the complete opposite-- It suggests that you only want to deal in black-and-white absolutes. The rest of us are dealing with probabilities and likelihoods, and saying that "there are no guarantees" has absolutely no bearing on that.

Ditto with "Anything can happen". It's not valid reasoning.

Second that notion. I mean it is *possible* we'll draft the next Jamie Benn in the 5th round this year but I doubt anyone here would be willing to put money on it happening. Seems it only gets tossed around to "win" arguments about drafting high/tanking. If anyone is so confident about getting a great talent later on PM me and we can set up a little wager on the side.