Who is your choice at 4th

[Monk]

worth noting that there isn't a draft-eligible player i can remember outside mcdavid who this didn't apply to

Not sure I follow or agree... Sure, every prospect can get faster, improve their edgework, whatever...

For comparison's sake, here's the random blurb on Adam Fantilli's skating from the same source I used for W Smith:

"Fantilli’s skating is by far the biggest weapon in his arsenal. It is the motor that runs his game. Acceleration, edgework, and smooth crossovers all work in tandem to make him one of the best skaters in this year’s draft class."

There's an obvious difference there, no?

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Not sure I follow or agree... Sure, every prospect can get faster, improve their edgework, whatever...

the smith quote was basically "he can skate circles around 17-year-olds but NHL guys are bigger and faster" which is lazy analysis imo because it applies to just about every tool that every draft-eligible player has.

For comparison's sake, here's the random blurb on Adam Fantilli's skating from the same source I used for W Smith:

fantilli's skating is the best in the entire draft – to say that smith's skating isn't at that level doesn't mean that smith's skating is a problem or will be a problem at the NHL level. it won't be an issue – he's a good skater.

 

[Monk]

the smith quote was basically "he can skate circles around 17-year-olds but NHL guys are bigger and faster" which is lazy analysis imo because it applies to just about every tool that every draft-eligible player has.

fantilli's skating is the best in the entire draft – to say that smith's skating isn't at that level doesn't mean that smith's skating is a problem or will be a problem at the NHL level. it won't be an issue – he's a good skater.

I'll just go back to the actual quote about Smith:

"Smith’s skating might limit him a little bit in the NHL"

I've watched like 6 minutes of highlights of the guy, I have no opinion of my own. But obviously there are concerns about his skating more so than other draft-eligible players, generally speaking. You're acknowledging that yourself.

More than anything, I just think it's funny KJD is so offended by MM's comparison to recent Kane. That's still pretty high praise. And I'm not offering an opinion on whether or not he's a good choice at #4, to be clear.

 

[majormajor]

As for Smith, he's not close to a Bobby Ryan skater. I'm no expert so all I do is read and watch highlights and games where I can. He's no Jack Hughes but his skating would not be a detraction to his game. Any improvement would only make him that much better. And he's an 18 year old kid with time on his side to get stronger and improve. He's NHL average if not better by several accounts. If we're talking about skating concerns you need to include Leo in that list as his skating is worse. He's just bigger and plays a different style game. Certainly more engaged in all 3 zones but he needs skating work. And, again, that's from the same experts that find Smith's skating to be more than adequate if not a plus.

I realize I sound like a Smith defender. I'm not, but I do think he's got special gifts that would be welcome on this team if that's what it came down to. I'm still focused on Bedard or Fantilli, then we'll see what happens.

Please 5/8... hurry and get here!

I see problems with skating for both of them. Carlsson's I know how to fix though. His edges are really good and he gets a lot of power despite having far too little flexion (not bending enough at the ankle, knee, and hip). He just needs to up the flexion and that's something that can come from strength training. He'll be an amazing skater once that comes through because of how powerful he is.

Smith's skating doesn't seem that bad technically, he's just not nearly the athlete. He doesn't get much power at all out of his stride. Some scouts have said he's improved it a lot over the last few years so maybe he has more to go along those lines, I don't know.

the smith quote was basically "he can skate circles around 17-year-olds but NHL guys are bigger and faster" which is lazy analysis imo because it applies to just about every tool that every draft-eligible player has.

fantilli's skating is the best in the entire draft – to say that smith's skating isn't at that level doesn't mean that smith's skating is a problem or will be a problem at the NHL level. it won't be an issue – he's a good skater.

The difference is some guys are already above average skaters by NHL standards: Moore, Fantilli, Leonard, etc... they'll be able to blow by NHL defenders at times. And Smith is in the unenviable group that is passable by junior standards. Going from average skating at junior to below average vs NHLers is where you have to ask hard questions about translatability.

 

[stevo61]

I see problems with skating for both of them. Carlsson's I know how to fix though. His edges are really good and he gets a lot of power despite having far too little flexion (not bending enough at the ankle, knee, and hip). He just needs to up the flexion and that's something that can come from strength training. He'll be an amazing skater once that comes through because of how powerful he is.

Smith's skating doesn't seem that bad technically, he's just not nearly the athlete. He doesn't get much power at all out of his stride. Some scouts have said he's improved it a lot over the last few years so maybe he has more to go along those lines, I don't know.



The difference is some guys are already above average skaters by NHL standards: Moore, Fantilli, Leonard, etc... they'll be able to blow by NHL defenders at times. And Smith is in the unenviable group that is passable by junior standards. Going from average skating at junior to below average vs NHLers is where you have to ask hard questions about translatability.

So lots of strength and explovsiveness training sounds easy enough. Hes no burner but Bjorkstrand had a big boost to his skating. I remember watching him live with Portland pre draft and wasnt super impressed, we all know what he became

 

[majormajor]

So lots of strength and explovsiveness training sounds easy enough. Hes no burner but Bjorkstrand had a big boost to his skating. I remember watching him live with Portland pre draft and wasnt super impressed, we all know what he became

Easy enough but most of the population can't improve it by that much. For every Bjorkstrand there's a guy or two who's skating never came along. And that's true even with technique held constant, you could have two guys with the same stride and one is just a lot faster, perhaps just more fast twitch muscle.

NTDP is also introducing advanced physical training much earlier than other programs. They tend to produce a lot of physical specimens like Leonard, Moore, and Gauthier. So it's likely Smith has already started pro level training. Though plenty of kids don't have the hormonal mix for strength gains until they're in their 20s, that might be the case for Smith.

Some of this sounds more anti-Smith than I mean it to, I'm pretty bullish on the player as a point producing winger, just not as a center.

 

[stevo61]

Easy enough but most of the population can't improve it by that much. For every Bjorkstrand there's a guy or two who's skating never came along. And that's true even with technique held constant, you could have two guys with the same stride and one is just a lot faster, perhaps just more fast twitch muscle.

NTDP is also introducing advanced physical training much earlier than other programs. They tend to produce a lot of physical specimens like Leonard, Moore, and Gauthier. So it's likely Smith has already started pro level training. Though plenty of kids don't have the hormonal mix for strength gains until they're in their 20s, that might be the case for Smith.

Some of this sounds more anti-Smith than I mean it to, I'm pretty bullish on the player as a point producing winger, just not as a center.

He probably has but having access to it and putting in the work are 2 different things. Sillinger seems like another case of that. Would be interesting to know how hard he actually pushes himself or if hes been less serious on that side of things because his skill has carried him to this level.
I think hes one of the harder players to project because of the level he played at and who he played with. Could be a case of if everything goes well you get one of the more skilled players in the draft and if it goes all wrong you get another Milano type guy

 

[ViD]

 

[majormajor]

He probably has but having access to it and putting in the work are 2 different things. Sillinger seems like another case of that. Would be interesting to know how hard he actually pushes himself or if hes been less serious on that side of things because his skill has carried him to this level.
I think hes one of the harder players to project because of the level he played at and who he played with. Could be a case of if everything goes well you get one of the more skilled players in the draft and if it goes all wrong you get another Milano type guy

I'm not worried about Smith busting or turning into Milano, the vision is too good. But he might be kind of annoying to watch if he's getting pushed off pucks every shift.

My impression is that the NTDP kids all do the training curriculum together, it's mandatory.

Regarding Sillinger I think he actually might have just had fun last summer, he showed up fat and clearly on first sight had big problems with his crossovers. If this organization was smart they would have sent him to the AHL to retrain immediately. Instead they wasted a whole year.

 

[BB88]

Good thing that he’s playing again and they are getting more views on him

 

[koteka]

Regarding Sillinger I think he actually might have just had fun last summer, he showed up fat and clearly on first sight had big problems with his crossovers. If this organization was smart they would have sent him to the AHL to retrain immediately. Instead they wasted a whole year.

This. Things came a little too easy for him, he got plenty of run in the media (youngest guy in the NHL), the young ladies love him (my friend’s daughter thinks he is really hot), he started dating a Canadian celebrity, etc. They should have sent him down way sooner. Let’s see how he reacts now. He has faced some adversity and was finally sent down. Make him really earn his call up back to the NHL.

 

[CBJx614]

I'm not worried about Smith busting or turning into Milano, the vision is too good. But he might be kind of annoying to watch if he's getting pushed off pucks every shift.

My impression is that the NTDP kids all do the training curriculum together, it's mandatory.

Regarding Sillinger I think he actually might have just had fun last summer, he showed up fat and clearly on first sight had big problems with his crossovers. If this organization was smart they would have sent him to the AHL to retrain immediately. Instead they wasted a whole year.

I would imagine(hope) it's all mandatory. When I played all my buddies on the AAA CBJ teams had mandatory PT at the rink. I would imagine those standards only get stricter as the competition increases.

Having said that, going through the motions, and having the drive and work ethic to be the best are two things entirely.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I hope I can close this damn thread on Monday.

 

[Cowumbus]

Regarding Sillinger I think he actually might have just had fun last summer, he showed up fat and clearly on first sight had big problems with his crossovers.

I wish I could like this more than once.

Not saying it’s the case with him, but many young players who have success during their rookie year get “big heads” and think they don’t have to put in the work to stay in the NHL. Kirby Dach is a perfect example, the trade to the Habs humbled him - he looks back to his old self now.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

I hope I can close this damn thread on Monday.

And open "Who do you take at 1st" thread

 

[Monk]

And open "Who do you take at 1st" thread

If they get the 1st overall pick I insist that we have a poll for it

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

If they get the 1st overall pick I insist that we have a poll for it

Goes to my post somewhere about some folks are gonna be disappointed we can’t draft one of these players they’ve spent so much time scouting because we win the lottery.

 

[Viqsi]

If they get the 1st overall pick I insist that we have a poll for it

The options will be "Bedard", "Fantilli", "Carlsson", "Smith", "That Russian guy", "Trade Down", "William Karlsson", and "Fire Everybody".

 

[Monk]

The options will be "Bedard", "Fantilli", "Carlsson", "Smith", "That Russian guy", "Trade Down", "William Karlsson", and "Fire Everybody".

Might as well cut to the chase and put a "Whichever player is highest on the list" option as well so DSL and I don't have to post it

 

[squashmaple]

The options will be "Bedard", "Fantilli", "Carlsson", "Smith", "That Russian guy", "Trade Down", "William Karlsson", and "Fire Everybody".

Haven't seen you on ACGM in a while. There's been a rash of Karlsson to Columbus trades lately.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Might as well cut to the chase and put a "Whichever player is highest on the list" option as well so DSL and I don't have to post it

The poll will be “whose list do we use”

Bob Mackenzie
Corey Pronman
majormajor
Jarmo Kek… pfft never mind
Kevin Weekes
Tina Fey
That homeless guy who convinced Jimmy Haslam the Browns should draft Johnny Manziel

 

[GoJackets1]

Can't help but wonder if all this center discussion is moot and we take Michkov at 4, if we're there.

 

[EspenK]

Changed my vote from Michkov to Smith...eliminating the Russian factor and hopefully if he is available adding a C.

 

[Viqsi]

Haven't seen you on ACGM in a while. There's been a rash of Karlsson to Columbus trades lately.

I've had enough personal emergencies over the last couple weeks that if I tried to go there in the state I'm in I'd probably get myself banned in short order.

 

[VT]

Plenty of intrigue after Connor Bedard in Bob McKenzie's NHL Draft Lottery Edition ranking | TSN

There is no doubt whatsoever who will be taken No. 1 overall in the talent-laden 2023 NHL Draft. Beyond that, though, at Nos. 2 through 5? Check out TSN Hockey Insider Bob McKenzie's Top 12 Lottery Edition Draft Ranking.

www.tsn.ca