Who is the one player (realistically) you would add this summer

[Rebels57]

Id pass on Carlson at that price. Great in the ozone but not a good enough defender to justify it. Would rather take a crack at Doughty or Karlsson in 2019 if we are going big game hunting.

 

[wasup]

Don't complain when they are a fringe playoff at best next season then.

You can go thru all my posts and you won't find one of me complaining about this last year and won't about this stuff next year, this development stuff takes time and rushing out trying to plug holes don't work. Build from within and when the time is right then add for a push aka just what the jets did this year. This is a fun thread but it is all knee jerk stuff do you honestly think Washington just lets Carlson walk and if they did there would be 20 other teams thinking the same thing as you guys . The highest bidder wins then cap crunch problems start when your younger guys coming off their ELC need to be paid . The timing is all wrong we have to many holes right now ; goalie, one top six , third line center, two bottom six and one top 4 dman where the heck do you find all that in one year and if you did you are at cap crunch time with no room to resign Provo Konec Patrick etc... It is all fun to talk about but it don't work

 

[The Madrigal]

You can go thru all my posts and you won't find one of me complaining about this last year and won't about this stuff next year, this development stuff takes time and rushing out trying to plug holes don't work. Build from within and when the time is right then add for a push aka just what the jets did this year. This is a fun thread but it is all knee jerk stuff do you honestly think Washington just lets Carlson walk and if they did there would be 20 other teams thinking the same thing as you guys . The highest bidder wins then cap crunch problems start when your younger guys coming off their ELC need to be paid . The timing is all wrong we have to many holes right now ; goalie, one top six , third line center, two bottom six and one top 4 dman where the heck do you find all that in one year and if you did you are at cap crunch time with no room to resign Provo Konec Patrick etc... It is all fun to talk about but it don't work

It's pretty simple. You address a couple of those needs this summer, and then address a couple more if necessary in 2019. It's time to start building onto the rebuild and move onto the next phase because we are going into year FIVE of Hextall's tenure. It's quite obvious a bunch of people are starting come to the painful realization that Hextall isn't the knight in shining armor for the Flyers organization they thought he was. Reality is setting in and it's a tough pill to swallow.

 

[Appleyard]

FACT Plekanec is old and his production has declined in two straight years.
FACT 30-32 points is more than the 28 and 26 a declining Plekanec has put up the last two years.
FACT the xup champions of the last two years had a 3rd line center in Nick Bonino who had 37 pts last year for and 29 in 63 games the year before.
Look at the four teams left right now and their third line centers. Three out of the four have more than 30-32 and two of them have 40+.
Tyler Johnson - 53 points
Bryan Little - 43 points
Lars eller - 38 points
Cody Eakin - 27 points
A 25 point declining center isnt going to cut the mustard as a 3rd liner on a legit playoff contender - FACT

Oh, as I have said, I would prefer Bozak or Nash... they have the potential to get ~35 points without real PP time and would be 100% amongst the best ~5-8 3C's in the NHL. Whereas Plekanec will realistically be an ~average NHL 3C... but that is an upgrade over Flip last year!

But yeh, Bonino is pretty much the best 3C on a cup finalist in the last 6 years, and he paced for 38 points, as I said ~40 is the most a 3C can get.... though it is worth noting that without his 11 PP points he got 28 points last year. That matters.

I mean, the issue with that analysis is that Tyler Johnson has played LW all season, mainly on a line with Brayden Points, but now with Cirelli. He has not been at C this year. Tampa have actually had real issues over the season at 3C... they have not had a stable one at all. Gourde and Namestnikov were playing wing and taking draws, Miller was used there a bit when traded over but he is also really a winger. Cirelli is there now...

Little was 2C almost all year. They traded for Stastny at the deadline and likely cannot retain him, once Stastny came Little's production fell off a cliff playing a more limited role. I mean... it does not happen so often because top 6 C's who are legit are very hard to trade for at the deadline, but Winnipeg this year kind of struck gold. But had he been there all year, Little, who is a bonafide 2C who should get ~50+ most years, would have for sure got ~35 points!

Cup Finalists 3rd highest scoring C/82 since 2011:

BOS 11: Kelly (28)
VAN 11: Malhotra (34)
LAK 12: Stoll (22)
NJD 12: Zajac (44)
CHI 13: Shaw (26)
BOS 13: Kelly (22)
LAK 14: Stoll (28)
NYR 14: Brassard (46)
CHI 15: Vermette (38)
TBL 15: Filppula (48)
PIT 16: Bonino (38)
SJS 16: Tierney (21)
PIT 17: Bonino (38)
NSH 17: Jarnkrok (31)
Average: 32.5 P/82

6/14 paced for below 30 points. What is notable about this list though is that aside from Filppula (who is bad/was average defensively) the rest were all/are all plus players on D. Shaw is maybe 2nd worst defensive player at the time the final was played on that list.

But it is worth noting that on the teams (NJD, NYR, TBL) where their "3C" got 40+ points, their pace over 82 at EV.

Zajac: 30 EVP
Brassard: 28 EVP
Filppula: 31 EVP

Part of the reason those teams lost was because guys like them were on PP1! (plus NYR had no 1C... they had 3x 2C's really, NJD had to play Elias at C because Henrique was best C)

The highest EVP/82 pace any cup finalist 3C this decade has had is Bonino with 34 in 2015-16.

Considering that unless the Flyers sign Stastny for "3C" (which would in turn limit Patrick's scoring for sure) neither Bozak or Ryan will get very much PP time, the most we can realistically hope for from any 3C next season - barring a big increase in NHL scoring - is around 35 points!

 

[hatcher]

It's pretty simple. You address a couple of those needs this summer, and then address a couple more if necessary in 2019. It's time to start building onto the rebuild and move onto the next phase because we are going into year FIVE of Hextall's tenure.

No we gotta wait ten years LOL. f*** this team has been shit to watch since the devil round in 2012.

 

[Ruck Over]

Id pass on Carlson at that price. Great in the ozone but not a good enough defender to justify it. Would rather take a crack at Doughty or Karlsson in 2019 if we are going big game hunting.

Those two weren't options. And, given that the signing of a player this year makes it less likely a player will be signed next year (Lehtera comes off, and AMac becomes a reasonable buy-out candidate), that means this upcoming season is likely to be a punt, waiting for a chance to compete against every team in the league for two expensive obvious prize horses.

Carlson can obviously price himself out of being a reasonable target for the Flyers, but he's definitely worth trying to acquire. Right hand shot, age, not the suck, etc.

 

[The Madrigal]

No we gotta wait ten years LOL. **** this team has been **** to watch since the devil round in 2012.

Yep, have to keep building the prospect pool and save every penny we can on the cap until the team is ready to start spending it in about 2025. The Hextall plan, the gift that will keep on giving all the way hockey mediocrity for the next 50 years.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

John Tortorella

cuz every minute under Hakstol is a waste of EVERYONES time...

 

[The Madrigal]

Have fun with your aging, declining, 25 point 3rd line center. What an amazing "upgrade."

 

[Striiker]

All the dramatic exaggerations do is make people look stupid...

So I'm not sure I understand the point in repeating them constantly. Is it intentional or is it a lack of self awareness?

 

[Jray42]

All the dramatic exaggerations do is make people look stupid...

So I'm not sure I understand the point in repeating them constantly. Is it intentional or is it a lack of self awareness?

All your opinions are wrong because they are subjective, my opinions are FACTS.

 

[The Madrigal]

Is it intentional or is it a lack of self awareness?

 

[The Madrigal]

All your opinions are wrong because they are subjective, my opinions are FACTS.

No doubt, who the hell would say that 26 is less than 30-32 and then claim it's a fact.

 

[Striiker]

If the reaction gif/img needs an explanation then it probably isn't a good one.

 

[Jray42]

No doubt, who the hell would say that 26 is less than 30-32 and then claim it's a fact.

Nice try, but that's not what I was going for.

"A 25 point declining center isnt going to cut the mustard as a 3rd liner on a legit playoff contender - FACT"

 

[The Madrigal]

If the reaction gif/img needs an explanation then it probably isn't a good one.

Or you're just clueless. Isn't it ironic. Pretty sad I have to explain this to you.

 

[Tripod]

Adding Pleks is fine....if it's for the 4th line C role. Then is an injury occurs, he "can" move up to 3rd line C for a short time.

 

[The Madrigal]

Nice try, but that's not what I was going for.

"A 25 point declining center isnt going to cut the mustard as a 3rd liner on a legit playoff contender - FACT"

The Last two cup winners (both Pittsburgh) had a third line center who had 29 points in only
63 games the first year and 37 points the next year. Washington knocked them off this year, 38 point 3rd line center on their team. Winnipeg in the WCF's with Scheifele, Stastny, and Little at center. Hmmm, seems to be a correlation here. Having quality depth at center isn't exactly some sort of new radical revelation I have come up with.

 

[Striiker]

Or you're just clueless. Isn't it ironic. Pretty sad I have to explain this to you.

Now do you really mean that I’m clueless or is this another dramatic exaggeration?

Hard tell what you really believe anymore.

 

[Flyotes]

Carlson. D needs an injection. Shouldn't break the bank.

My sense is that our good forward prospects are coming / making a leap. Both sides of the puck should improve.

 

[deadhead]

First, it's just plain stupid to focus on whether your 3C gets 25 or 30 ES points, that's not going to move the needle, as long as they can play decent defense, and not be a liability, whoever you put out there will be fine for the 12-13 minutes they play. Because Patrick and Couts will combine for 35-40 minutes a night, your two other centers will only play 20-25 minutes. So 12-14 for the 3C and 8-11 for the 4C, depending on whether they're on the PK and PP2. And because any 3C we pick up won't be on PP1 they're not going to get a lot of PP points.

Most of the scoring for all teams comes from the top 6 or so goal scorers.
Flyers were 2nd in D-men goals, and if Myers joins and Sanheim step up, they could push Nashville for first place next year.
So a couple goals more or less from the 3rd line is less important than consistent, solid play, especially when matched up against top two lines on other teams.
That was the issue with Filppula, he scored at a decent rate, but his skating fell off as did his defense and puck possession.

The top two lines are set, and Patrick will be a dominating player next year once he gets into real NHL shape, all you had to do to watch him this spring to know he's the real thing, the only flaw in his game, other than inexperience, was lack of strength. Skating, plus, instincts, plus, passing, plus, shooting, plus, hands, plus. While there are players better at everything he does, Patrick is above average in all areas, and like Couts, the whole is going to be greater than the sum of the parts.

So all the Flyers need from the bottom six is consistent "reliable" play.
A third line that can score at a reasonable rate and matchup defensively against scoring lines without being embarrassed or exposed.
A fourth line that can play with energy, score enough to keep opposing coaches honest, and drive play with high motor forechecking.

They have Laughton and Simmonds for the 3rd line, Raffl, NAK, MV, Bardreau and Knight for the 4th line.
And at some point this season Vorobyev will be promoted.
So it's not like Hextall has to go out and add five new players.
In 2019, Frost, Ratcliffe, Rubtsov, Kase, Laberge, Twarnynski, Bunnaman will push for roster spots.

 

[tue66512]

I'd love for Hexy to trade for Athanasiou or throw an offer sheet at him. I'd rather have AA as our speedy 3rd line center and let him develop, then overpay for 32 y/o's Stastny or Bozak. Also with Detroit in a rebuild and likely losing Green and aging defense Kronwall (37), Ericsson (34) & Daley (34), the Flyers seem like a good trade partner.

 

[renberg]

Thoughts on using Raffl as the 3C? He's been a winger here but has played center in international play. Then there's Veccione; he'll be 26 years old next season. If he has a future in the organization he needs to be up next season.
Giroux-Coots-Konecny
?????-Patrick-Simmonds
Lindblom-Raffl-Voracek
Laughton-Veccione-Weiss or NAK

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I want no parts of a 36-year-old Plekanec, he of 0 goals and 2 assists in his 17 regular season games with the Leafs after the trade deadline.

This team doesn't need an aging 20-something point center. Hell, Laughton can do that, and suffering through a declining Filppula was bad enough. Plus, I can't help but be reminded of Weise's play with the Blackhawks after they got him at the deadline before he was a free agent. Frighteningly similar to Plekanec.

Plus, I think it's very dangerous to rely on Patrick as your 2C. People are penciling him in there like he's already a lock to be a stud 2C. That's a risky bet for next season. They better have another center who can at least score 40-some points. Remember, Patrick, though he improved greatly the 2nd half of the season, only scored 2 more ES points than the God-awful Filppula from Jan. 1 onward.

I think it's really dangerous to get enamored with 20-30 point, bottom-six players. It's like getting enamored with utility players in baseball. Fans overrate how much of an impact they really have, when, in fact, they are mostly fungible and not significant difference makers. What you want is the most high-end talent you can get, and then you can fill in the bottom of your lineup with those fringe guys where the difference in ability between one and another is less severe. When you get fixated on the impact of those 20-30 point players, you end up with signings like Weise and Gordon, or even Jordan Weal (who I admittedly was wrong on, but I learned).

If you're going to spend money on free agency, go high-end, not middle-of-the-road.

 

[Rebels57]

I'd love for Hexy to trade for Athanasiou or throw an offer sheet at him. I'd rather have AA as our speedy 3rd line center and let him develop, then overpay for 32 y/o's Stastny or Bozak. Also with Detroit in a rebuild and likely losing Green and aging defense Kronwall (37), Ericsson (34) & Daley (34), the Flyers seem like a good trade partner.

Trade route is the best route this summer. I agree.