Who is The Leafs Most Underrated Player?

[hockeyfanz*]

Phaneuf underrated ?

The 3rd highest paid defenseman in the NHL..captain of the biggest hockey market team in the world, and he is UNDER-RATED...

Im starting to believe that there is a strong lack of basic understanding of the English Language. Who exactly is under-rating Dion Phaneuf when presented with these facts?

If we are talking about the fans..perhaps one can draw that conclusion but not even then when you consider Phaneuf is polarizing..either you think he is great and a true #1D or you think he is vastly overpaid and in over his head. Personally I believe he closer to the latter than the former...

but either way..clearly the people who employ him do NOT under-rate him...and clearly Dion only cares about what the man signing his paycheques thinks.

Before you Phaneuf boys gang up and tell us its the hockey smart guys in the executive chairs who know his value...they also signed David Clarkson to 5.25M per season...David effin Clarkson...

I'm sorry but all bets are off when talking about the superiority of hockey knowledge from the front office staff...

 

[BillyD]

Phaneuf underrated ?

kind of a disconnect here, current NHL players (his peers) vote Dion most overrated in the league every year but this board thinks he is the most underrated player on the Leafs

hmmm, i wonder who's got it right

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Some people refuse to believe how bad Clarktard was killing his mojo last year.

Goals/60 Pts/60 Corsi%
with Clarkson 0.54 1.09 44.1%
without Clarkson 0.76 2.04 45.8%

According to extra skater, Kadri's 3 most popular lineamates last season were Lupul, Kessel, and Raymond.

Clarkson was not one of them.

Clarkson is even the scapegoat, when it is not factually true. I picked Dion as the most underrated due to the unwarranted criticisms he gets here, I am thinking Clarkson deserves some votes here.

 

[J1S]

I don't really view any current Leaf as being underrated because I know what they've done/bring to the table on a consistent basis. Maybe in terms of how posters under value Phaneuf would get me to vote for him, but I wouldn't go out of my way to tell hockey fans that Phaneuf is underrated as a player.

 

[Joey Hoser]

According to extra skater, Kadri's 3 most popular lineamates last season were Lupul, Kessel, and Raymond.

Clarkson was not one of them.

Clarkson is even the scapegoat, when it is not factually true. I picked Dion as the most underrated due to the unwarranted criticisms he gets here, I am thinking Clarkson deserves some votes here.

Can you link a source on that? Lupul and Raymond for sure, but Im having a hard time believing he spent more time with Kessel than Clarkson.

I've been trying to Google it but I'm only on mobile right now which is making it difficult.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Can you link a source on that? Lupul and Raymond for sure, but Im having a hard time believing he spent more time with Kessel than Clarkson.

I've been trying to Google it but I'm only on mobile right now which is making it difficult.

Under quality of teammates 5 on 5. http://www.extraskater.com/player/473/nazem-kadri

 

[Deebo]

I don't really view any current Leaf as being underrated because I know what they've done/bring to the table on a consistent basis. Maybe in terms of how posters under value Phaneuf would get me to vote for him, but I wouldn't go out of my way to tell hockey fans that Phaneuf is underrated as a player.

Isn't that what underrated means?

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

kind of a disconnect here, current NHL players (his peers) vote Dion most overrated in the league every year

That was done once, several years ago, with only a handful of players involved in the voting.

 

[PhiladelphiaKessel]

Bozak with phaneuf a close 2nd. A case could be made for kessel but I think he's more underrated by other fans then us

 

[BillyD]

That was done once, several years ago, with only a handful of players involved in the voting.

false

SI poll in 2012, ESPN in 2013.

Poll after poll, it’s the same thing. Last year, in a poll of 161 NHL players conducted by SI, Phaneuf was named the most overrated guy in 20 ballots. This week, in an ESPN The Magazine poll of 30 “star” NHL players, Phaneuf was again voted the most overrated player, gaining 13.3% of the vote.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/10/04/why-do-peers-keep-bashing-maple-leafs-dion-phaneuf

 

[Mess]

I don't really view any current Leaf as being underrated because I know what they've done/bring to the table on a consistent basis. Maybe in terms of how posters under value Phaneuf would get me to vote for him, but I wouldn't go out of my way to tell hockey fans that Phaneuf is underrated as a player.

In Phaneuf's case I thing underrated and underperforming are being interchanged.

Phaneuf is one of the top 10 highest paid defensemen in the game today and with that comes high expectations that you should be one of the best.

However Dion is not in the top 30 Dmen in scoring, nor is he in the top 30 dmen in TOI/g, but he is in the top 10 in most goals against while he is on the ice.. That makes him vastly underperforming his contract and that was before his new raise.

Generally when a player is considered underrated it means he is playing and contributing at a higher level then his remuneration and not getting enough credit for his contributions. In Phaneuf's case his stats are far below his contract and cap levels and that would actually make him overrated and overpaid for his performance. IMO

Franson by numerous fans is considered a liability and overpaid at $3.3 mil and yet he out produces Phaneuf statistically the last 2 seasons and Dion makes over 2 X as much as Cody does.

 

[Teeder9]

Can you link a source on that? Lupul and Raymond for sure, but Im having a hard time believing he spent more time with Kessel than Clarkson.

I've been trying to Google it but I'm only on mobile right now which is making it difficult.

Interestingly, Behind the net has him with lupul, Raymond, Franson, Gardiner, and Rielly. My eyes tell me Lupul was his most used winger last season and he was only with Kessel when Bozak was injured. You can decide which website to use.

 

[SourGrapes]

Has to be Clarkson. Most of the fanbase has trouble recognizing him as a professional hockey player. Believe it or not, he made it to the NHL.

 

[Gary Nylund]

In Phaneuf's case I thing underrated and underperforming are being interchanged.

Phaneuf is one of the top 10 highest paid defensemen in the game today and with that comes high expectations that you should be one of the best.

However Dion is not in the top 30 Dmen in scoring, nor is he in the top 30 dmen in TOI/g, but he is in the top 10 in most goals against while his is on the ice.. That makes him vastly underperforming his contract and that was before his new raise.

Generally when a player is considered underrated it means he is playing and contributing at a higher level then his remuneration and not getting enough credit for his contributions. In Phaneuf's case his stats are far below his contract and cap and levels and that would actually make him overrated and overpaid for his performance. IMO

Franson by numerous fans is considered a liability and overpaid at $3.3 mil and he out produces Phaneuf statistically the last 2 seasons and Dion makes over 2 X as much as Cody does.

Well, that's one way of looking at it.

Another way is this, let's say that on a scale of 1-10, Dion is being paid like an 8 and performs like a 6 (for arguments sake). If people say that Dion is really more like a 3, then that would make him underrated.

I would only add that goals against while he is on the ice isn't a reliable measuring stick. There are many reasons for this and I'm sure you could list a few yourself if you were so inclined.

 

[KLM-Line]

Probably the wrong list. I wouldn't call any of the named underrated. Disliked is the better term. Lupul when comes closest to the underrated status as he is a gamechanger when he is on fire. Maybe evenmore so than Kessel. Bozak is misplaced and just rubs people the wrong way. The Bieber way.

Bernier still needs to make his true mark AND be particularly misinterpreted in the future in order to fit the label. I doubt that happens (I'd expect rather the opposite = overwhelming appreciation).

Our prospects on the cusp have a better chance at being more than currently perceived.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Probably the wrong list. I wouldn't call any of the named underrated. Disliked is the better term. Lupul when comes closest to the underrated status as he is a gamechanger when he is on fire. Maybe evenmore so than Kessel. Bozak is misplaced and just rubs people the wrong way. The Bieber way.

Bernier still needs to make his true mark AND be particularly misinterpreted in the future in order to fit the label. I doubt that happens (I'd expect rather the opposite = overwhelming appreciation).

Our prospects on the cusp have a better chance at being more than currently perceived.

Lupul was visible so rarely last season so ...

Someone suggested we try Lupul on the top line with Kessel again. I love that idea as they were once great together and Van Riemer could perform well even without Kessel, worth a shot IMO.

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

false

SI poll in 2012, ESPN in 2013.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/10/04/why-do-peers-keep-bashing-maple-leafs-dion-phaneuf

Fair enough, but it's still nothing more than an appeal to authority.

 

[EastVan]

I really don't see any of the players listed as being particularly underrated.

Someone like Gunnarsson certainly was; he got the job done with little fanfare. So quiet and unassuming.

Kulemin might have been another candidate if he was still around for the same reasons as Gunnarsson.

I am sure some other underrated player candidates will emerge this year once things get rolling.

 

[Mess]

I really don't see any of the players listed as being particularly underrated.

Someone like Gunnarsson certainly was; he got the job done with little fanfare. So quiet and unassuming.

Kulemin might have been another candidate if he was still around for the same reasons as Gunnarsson.

Those would be 2 excellent examples of underrated Leaf players.

Gunnarsson lead all Leaf players with a +12 on a team that was 5th worst in goals against. He was often on the top pairing and playing against the oppositions best. Being a double digit positive player on a team that surrenders among the most goals against is no easy feat to accomplish.

In terms of ES goals against he wasn't even in the top 4 most as Franson, Phaneuf, Gardiner and Rielly were all on for more ES goals against.

Players ....................ES TOI/G ...ES GA ....Tot GA

Cody Franson ................ 16:08 .... 71 ....... 89
Dion Phaneuf ................ 17:27 .... 70 ...... 101
Morgan Rielly ................ 15:34 .... 62 ........64
Jake Gardiner ................ 18:10 .....56 ........61
Carl Gunnarsson .......... 16:15 .... 49 ....... 78
Paul Ranger .................. 15:14 .....33 ........44
Tim Gleason ................. 14:50 .....30 ........40

Kulemin was listed as Leafs unsung hero the previous year by both Nonis and Carlyle doing the dirty work and defensive play that often doesn't get a player enough credit, as offensive stats is usually the focus of attention.

You know the saying you often don't appreciate something you had until its gone and this might well be the case this year as Leafs will be without them both this upcoming season and so we will find out if they will be missed.

 

[TheThrill81*]

That was done once, several years ago, with only a handful of players involved in the voting.

I remember that list being a joke, even more than TSN's ranking of Kessel at 43.

 

[Rielly4]

My pick isn't on there. My pick would be Gardiner since there are quite a few people who think he's a scrub that can't play defense and has very low hockey IQ. Meanwhile, he played huge minutes last year as a 23 year old, and was by far our best player in the last 20 games and leading scorer and leader in TOI in that time, while also being solid defensively and looking VERY smart. Common misconception is that Gardiner has a low hockey IQ. Gardiner being inconsistent is more accurate because when he is on he looks like the smartest player on the ice but it's the opposite when he is not. He still has top pairing potential easily.

If I had to pick from these, I would pick Bozak. He's not a number 1 centre, but he is a good player. Kessel and Phaneuf as honourable mentions.

Agreed. If we traded Gardiner i would be quite upset.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Those would be 2 excellent examples of underrated Leaf players.

Gunnarsson lead all Leaf players with a +12 on a team that was 5th worst in goals against. He was often on the top pairing and playing against the oppositions best. Being a double digit positive player on a team that surrenders among the most goals against is no easy feat to accomplish.

In terms of ES goals against he wasn't even in the top 4 most as Franson, Phaneuf, Gardiner and Rielly were all on for more ES goals against.

Players ....................ES TOI/G ...ES GA ....Tot GA

Cody Franson ................ 16:08 .... 71 ....... 89
Dion Phaneuf ................ 17:27 .... 70 ...... 101
Morgan Rielly ................ 15:34 .... 62 ........64
Jake Gardiner ................ 18:10 .....56 ........61
Carl Gunnarsson .......... 16:15 .... 49 ....... 78
Paul Ranger .................. 15:14 .....33 ........44
Tim Gleason ................. 14:50 .....30 ........40

Kulemin was listed as Leafs unsung hero the previous year by both Nonis and Carlyle doing the dirty work and defensive play that often doesn't get a player enough credit, as offensive stats is usually the focus of attention.

You know the saying you often don't appreciate something you had until its gone and this might well be the case this year as Leafs will be without them both this upcoming season and so we will find out if they will be missed.

How many times is it now that you have posted Gunnarson's +- numbers?

Gunnarson had the best +- numbers on the Leafs, good for him. Troy Bodie was next best. So what? Was Gunnarson our best d-man and Bodie our best forward?

When numbers seem to indicate something that seems fishy, then one might want to rethink the relevance of said numbers .

 

[BillyD]

Fair enough, but it's still nothing more than an appeal to authority.

the players know, the rest is noise.

 

[Eb]

This off-season, it's been Kadri - not close.

In general though, it's Phaneuf.

Yes, I'd agree with that. Although Bozak has been getting his fair share of hate, Kadri has been close behind.

 

[Atomos2]

Bozak and Phaneuf are both good options. I picked Bozak because he was underrated from the start and he always has been. Phaneuf was overrated at the start and that realization caused him to eventually become underrated.