Prospect Info: Who is the Canucks #17 prospect?

[Pseudonymous*]

i think pedigree should matter somewhat, having a mentor who knows hockey as well as Andrew did, well i do think that should count for something. I dont count it with Subban because the guy is absolutely tiny and going for a D position or else i'd be ranking him higher... as would have the whole league, for good reason

 

[moby]

cole cassels

 

[alternate]

Went with McEnemy for the second poll in a row.

 

[FOurteenS inCisOr]

Thats interesting, the guy with a HUGE disadvantage that cannot be fixed has the higher ceiling? how is that? his ceiling should be considered low considering there is hardly ANY defenders his size to do anything at the nhl level.... how does that equal a high ceiling?

VERY VERY confused by the amount of people saying this, so i figured it was finally time to ask how a player such as this has a high ceiling

Agreed.

18 year olds never grow. And no 5'9" player will ever crack an NHL lineup.

 

[Pip]

Agreed.

18 year olds never grow. And no 5'9" player will ever crack an NHL lineup.

Assuming this is sarcasm, 5'9" defenseman simply don't make the show, so we have to bank on him growing 2 inches and improving other parts of his game. A real long shot

 

[biturbo19]

This is where i start voting for Sauve, despite his stagnation last year.

I thought he was better than Polasek the year prior and has a better tool set as well. Last year was seriously concerning with his regression and landing in the ECHL. But at this point, we're betting on longshots, i'll go with the guy who was showing some positive signs at the AHL level and has all the tools...hoping he starts putting it back together.

Archibald, McEneny, and LaBate are right there though. The latter two on potential, the former on the fact that he did show a little bit late last season and may pan out as a useful player at the NHL level some day, in the same capacity as a Tommy Tostitos if things go well.

 

[shottasasa]

Archibald again. While he is most likely to end up as a 4th liner even as soon as this year, if he keeps progressing he could be more valuable than that, perhaps a punishing 3rd liner who chips in 10-15 goals a game. He has some offensive skills and is physical, it seems people are hung up on his speed which has been improving and isn't terrible, just average.

He has improved every year and until he stops improving I think his potential is more than a couple of voters give him credit for.

 

[deckercky]

perhaps a punishing 3rd liner who chips in 10-15 goals a game

That would be a pretty valuable player. Voted Archibald.

 

[Southern_Canuck]

Thinking about this discussion about Subban, I looked for current NHL defencemen that have overcome size limitations and found:

Kimmo Timonen 5'10", 194 lbs

Tobias Enstrom 5'10", 180 lbs

Neither known for their physicality, but instead hockey smarts, positioning, and offence. Can Subban eventually be that type of player at the NHL level?

 

[Pseudonymous*]

Thinking about this discussion about Subban, I looked for current NHL defencemen that have overcome size limitations and found:

Kimmo Timonen 5'10", 194 lbs

Tobias Enstrom 5'10", 180 lbs

Neither known for their physicality, but instead hockey smarts, positioning, and offence. Can Subban eventually be that type of player at the NHL level?

5'11, common, 5'10, real uncommon, 5'9 or under? well what is the rate there?

No he cannot.

The guy is currently 5’08.25.

 

[JoeCool16]

5'11, common, 5'10, real uncommon, 5'9 or under? well what is the rate there?

No he cannot.

The guy is currently 5’08.25.

A difference of a few inches can make a difference (like 5'9 against a guy 6'0), but if Subban is 5'9 180lbs and Tobias Enstrom is 5'10 180lbs then I think they'd have basically equal physical potential.

Eventually at a certain height you can only put on so much weight before you're just fat, but if Subban can even put one inch on to scrape 5'10 and bulk up to withstand the NHL rigors, he could very well become a Tobias Enstrom comparable, which would be a lot more useful than Darren Archibald having the stars align and becoming a 3rd liner capable of 10-15 goals.

 

[Wolfhard]

Thinking about this discussion about Subban, I looked for current NHL defencemen that have overcome size limitations and found:

Kimmo Timonen 5'10", 194 lbs

Tobias Enstrom 5'10", 180 lbs

Neither known for their physicality, but instead hockey smarts, positioning, and offence. Can Subban eventually be that type of player at the NHL level?

Francis Bouillon is another consideration at 5'8", 198. And is actually a physical, stay at home defender. Just a sign that extreme dedication to physical strength can overcome some obstacles, and it looks like Subban is cut from that same cloth, while being smarter, more skilled, and faster.

Rafalski had a fantastic career too at 5'10"
Marc Andre Bergeron (5'9") is inconsistent but can be a powerhouse
Jared Spurgeon (5'9") has had a good start to his career

Brian Campbell, Ian White, Kris Russell, Trevor Daley, JM Liles, Visnovsky have all overcome being 5'10" or less.

Just a few other comperables to look at. But they've all proven that you CAN make it despite being smaller. Sure it's not easy for a smaller player, but if you play in a way that minimizes the handicap and are able to use any combination of speed, strength and intelligence, you can still be very effective.

Barring that, as has been said, he might make a fantastic forward, even just as an energy player with speed and skills to boot.

 

[PhilMick]

Good on Archibald. Any Game of Thrones geeks here? Sometimes I like to refer to him as The Big Man (a la Archibald Yronwood).

#nerd

 

[Pseudonymous*]

A difference of a few inches can make a difference (like 5'9 against a guy 6'0), but if Subban is 5'9 180lbs and Tobias Enstrom is 5'10 180lbs then I think they'd have basically equal physical potential.

Eventually at a certain height you can only put on so much weight before you're just fat, but if Subban can even put one inch on to scrape 5'10 and bulk up to withstand the NHL rigors, he could very well become a Tobias Enstrom comparable, which would be a lot more useful than Darren Archibald having the stars align and becoming a 3rd liner capable of 10-15 goals.

it doesnt make much of a difference but when that difference is between a height that is already a reach and a height that is below that, it does make enough of a difference.

the added inch below that is basically the straw that broke the camel's back.

theres a reason the amount of players drops so significantly at each height level.

10 players 6'5
9 players 6'4
8 players 6'3
7 players 6'2
etc etc

1 player 5'9

To say he can reach the potential of the one player that is 5'9 because hes only an inch below that is silly. the likeliness is so slim

the guys even taller have troubles.

do you know how many defenders are in the nhl/ or in and out of the nhl, along with how many are in the AHL competing for jobs in the NHL? Alot. The fact somebody can name a handful really doesn't show much other than there is a few guys who trickled through.

Can subban be that guy? Sure, but more chances than 2nd round picks (cassels) and guys like McEneny have of making the nhl and becoming a regular in the nhl? Not likely , in my opinion.

Theres also a good chance subban doesnt' even grow past 5'8 (you guys do know hes listed at 5'8 correct?). Most of my friends didn't do any growing after 18. With saying that, thats 2 inches below the guys most of you mention who were even rare exceptions at their heights

 

[FOurteenS inCisOr]

it doesnt make much of a difference but when that difference is between a height that is already a reach and a height that is below that, it does make enough of a difference.

the added inch below that is basically the straw that broke the camel's back.

theres a reason the amount of players drops so significantly at each height level.

10 players 6'5
9 players 6'4
8 players 6'3
7 players 6'2
etc etc

1 player 5'9

To say he can reach the potential of the one player that is 5'9 because hes only an inch below that is silly. the likeliness is so slim

the guys even taller have troubles.

do you know how many defenders are in the nhl/ or in and out of the nhl, along with how many are in the AHL competing for jobs in the NHL? Alot. The fact somebody can name a handful really doesn't show much other than there is a few guys who trickled through.

Can subban be that guy? Sure, but more chances than 2nd round picks (cassels) and guys like McEneny have of making the nhl and becoming a regular in the nhl? Not likely , in my opinion.

Theres also a good chance subban doesnt' even grow past 5'8 (you guys do know hes listed at 5'8 correct?). Most of my friends didn't do any growing after 18. With saying that, thats 2 inches below the guys most of you mention who were even rare exceptions at their heights

HF, Hockeydb, and elite prospects all have him listed at 5'9".

Lots of people grow after 18.

I did (5'9" to 6'0.5"), and I know many others who did. Still doesn't mean Subban will, but it's possible.

 

[Pseudonymous*]

HF, Hockeydb, and elite prospects all have him listed at 5'9".

Lots of people grow after 18.

I did (5'9" to 6'0.5"), and I know many others who did. Still doesn't mean Subban will, but it's possible.

combine apparently had him at 5'8.25

which is a hair over 5'8. i wouldnt' round up 3/4 of an inch

http://lastwordonsports.com/2013/06/17/jordan-subban-2013-nhl-draft-player-profile-64/

edit-- figured i'd post this because i didn't see anyone else , p.k was listed at 5'11 when eh was drafted and probably sits near that now, he might be generously listed at 6 foot or infact be 6 foot. but i do i know they tend to go higher, like most sites already did with jordan for whatever reason

so there wasn't much growth in his brother after his draft date. and since genetics do play a large part...