Who is the better fit to coach this team?

[AreBe]

The team sucked that's the ONLY reason, and sometimes not even that matters, Buffalo has been a bottom 10 team for nearly a decade and they just landed Hall.

I am more inclined to be suspicious of a player who suddenly, now that they are worn out, and after all of that surgery, now in emeritus years, want to come to the Leafs for their victory lap.

Toronto is great- but it is not New York or LA, or Chicago or Boston.

San Francisco Bay Area is one of the most famous areas on the planet and with good reason.


There are many fantastic cities in the US, with better climate and less tax.

Tax is a big deal as it works out to be real money.

I question the sanity of anyone who wants to come to this pressure cooker and living under a microscope voluntarily.

Why subject oneself to such intense scrutiny, (2 sports networks building content around the Leafs, all sorts of radio and TV stations, and the print media all with real reporters on the scene and, sadly, making a scene.) and even outright hatred and vilification, by the fans and the press? Instead, go to Florida or California, Arizona, even New York City.

Why not somewhere in the sunbelt? Drive your European convertible with the top down, all year round? Why not? And pay less tax? And no scrutiny? For, because of less tax, more money? You are still an athletic millionaire, so supermodels are available in all cities.

Score a hat-trick in your own net- still a millionaire athlete. Story somewhere after High school Roundup. Sleep well. Nobody cares. Keep driving your $100,000 European convertible with the top down. Befriend the heroes of the town and meet up with NASCAR drivers

 

[horner]

Tortorella

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I am more inclined to be suspicious of a player who suddenly, now that they are worn out, and after all of that surgery, now in emeritus years, want to come to the Leafs for their victory lap.

Toronto is great- but it is not New York or LA, or Chicago or Boston.

San Francisco Bay Area is one of the most famous areas on the planet and with good reason.


There are many fantastic cities in the US, with better climate and less tax.

Tax is a big deal as it works out to be real money.

I question the sanity of anyone who wants to come to this pressure cooker and living under a microscope voluntarily.

Why subject oneself to such intense scrutiny, (2 sports networks building content around the Leafs, all sorts of radio and TV stations, and the print media all with real reporters on the scene and, sadly, making a scene.) and even outright hatred and vilification, by the fans and the press? Instead, go to Florida or California, Arizona, even New York City.

Why not somewhere in the sunbelt? Drive your European convertible with the top down, all year round? Why not? And pay less tax? And no scrutiny? For, because of less tax, more money? You are still an athletic millionaire, so supermodels are available in all cities.

Score a hat-trick in your own net- still a millionaire athlete. Story somewhere after High school Roundup. Sleep well. Nobody cares. Keep driving your $100,000 European convertible with the top down.

Do you question the sanity of anybody that wants to play Cowboys, Lakers, Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox Manchester united etc?

You talk about pressure I just listed Exhibit A-F and I can go all the way to Z if you want

 

[bodechek]

I don't know why Babcock is a part of the poll. That ship has sailed and he wasn't apparently a 'gud pro'.

 

[AreBe]

Do you question the sanity of anybody that wants to play Cowboys, Lakers, Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox Manchester united etc?

You talk about pressure I just listed Exhibit A-F and I can go all the way to Z if you want

There is far more to it than having a winning program.
Taxes count- see Tampa Bay.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

This is the team Babcock should have been given a chance to coach, one that actually has some grit and toughness, one with a backup that he could actually play, one with a real chance to win

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

There is far more to it than having a winning program.
Taxes count- see Tampa Bay.

You avoided the question

 

[AreBe]

You avoided the question

for teams, international brand teams, not like the Leafs, it is easier to get players.
Note the cities- New York, LA, Boston, Dallas. New York a are arguably better places to live than Toronto. better climate. New York and LA speak for themselves-Boston is a fantastic town, and the Celtics are there and other teams to take bullets for you. Everyone high on the Patriots still.
Manchester is OK and many of the players live in London too.
Further, in New York, the Knicks are the kings of Manhattan, there are many other teams to take the bullets for you.
Lifestyle choices point to those cities you listed.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

for teams, international brand teams, not like the Leafs, it is easier to get players.
Note the cities- New York, LA, Boston, Dallas. New York a are arguably better places to live than Toronto. better climate. New York and LA speak for themselves-Boston is a fantastic town, and the Celtics are there and other teams to take bullets for you. Everyone high on the Patriots still.
Manchester is OK and many of the players live in London too.
Further, in New York, the Knicks are the kings of Manhattan, there are many other teams to take the bullets for you.
Lifestyle choices point to those cities you listed.

Continuing to avoid the question do you question the sanity of anybody that plays for those cities?

Yes or no?

 

[AreBe]

Continuing to avoid the question do you question the sanity of anybody that plays for those cities?

Yes or no?

No, because they are not as securitized as Leafs players are here- not close.

There is no nation wide Cowboys Lunch hate-fest for the latest player to screw up, at the very least.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

No, because they are not as securitized as Leafs players are here- not close.

Are you joking the Cowboys, Yankees, Lakers, ESPECIALLY the Lakers? they aren't as securitized? You can't actually believe that

 

[AreBe]

Are you joking the Cowboys, Yankees, Lakers, ESPECIALLY the Lakers? they aren't as securitized? You can't actually believe that

Not only do I believe that the Leafs players are more scrutinized, I think country of origin matters and that Good Canadian Kids are given more leeway and allowances to screw up than some European stealing a job from a good Canadian kid.
Further, New York City based NHL hockey is so central to Canadian identify that there is actual distrust and people feel personally insulted and upset when the Leafs pick a European player in the draft over a Canadian one- this patriotism for Canada becomes patriotism for Canadian players, so perhaps saying it is anti- European might be too strong, but it is pro Canadian to the point that it is more Ok to boo the European and more OK to go nuts on their mistakes, and that the fans do so, and want to drive these players out of town.

So, uniquely, non Canadian players for the Leafs are subject to xenophobic attack.
And that is a Leafs thing. Or a Canada thing.
And no other teams other than other Canadian teams have that, and the Leafs, home to 2 national sports networks, and by a large margin the media hub of the country have it the worst.

So- yes- the Leafs players are the most unreasonably securitized players in North American sports.

 

[TakeTheBody]

Bill Belichick

 

[TheScandal89]

Keefe is good but I remember when Trotz was not resigned by Washington I told people that if your gonna fire Babcock, just do it now and snag Trotz.

Keefe had a really good 1st season but the team absolutely must go deeper this season.

 

[hfman]

i choose Other? Cast Your Vote

 

[crump]

Bobby Other. Tough hardworking career minor leaguer, now coach. Had a cup of coffee with the NHL but was always a good locker room guy.

Shortened name to the more adult Bob Other. Or B.Other, but as to the question about which coach, don’t BOther.

 

[lipstickjunkie]

Lol, Keefe. Babcock would play Thornton and Simmonds 25 min+ while Matthews rides the pine.

 

[Beaumaris]

Tortorella

That would be my first choice.Leafs need a strong,authoritative man behind the bench.

 

[Beaumaris]

Bill Belichick

Lol! Toronto Maple Cheats.

 

[Stephen]

If the Leafs had a similar offseason but added Alex Pietrangelo to the blueline instead of TJ Brodie (natural RHD and size) you’d probably have pretty close to an ideal Babcock roster on your hands. Maybe still lacking a net front shift disturber but you’d probably see that game plan deployed about as closely as he draws it up.

Keefe is more creative and probably a better manager of the younger personalities as it stands but we probably want to move off of this Babs vs Keefe, Lou vs Dubas endless debate because our coach and GM are their own guys and their finger prints are all over the organization by this point.

 

[A1LeafNation]

In Keefe's first 20 games as head coach of the Maple Leafs, the team posted a 15–4–1 record, the best start of any head coach in Toronto's 102-year history.

 

[AreBe]

Leafs Nation drunk on 12-year-old Scotch- about the same 12 years since any of these unrestricted free agents were good.

A thread about the coach - jeez. I hope the press does not run with this and turn it into an idiot story.

"Next, nationwide on Leafs Lunch, a great offseason topic: do the Leafs have the right coach? "Just please no.

 

[Bluebear]

The NHL has had fighting since the mid 1920's when the Chicago and Detroit teams were owned good ol' fashioned mobsters. Doubtless that fighting in hockey was always about selling tickets.

Hockey has had bodychecking far pre-dating mobster owned teams. I get it that a little bit of the ultraveolance can be triggering for the gentler among us who have conflicting feelings over fairness, strength, hierarchy, beauty, control and authority. It get it that in their minds floats a fantastical world where all are equal but some are more equal than others. Where everyone is free to live under the thumb of the same authority. Where strength and beauty are irrelevant because they're no longer recognizable in a sea of blue hair and body fat.

The game was also heavily influenced by lacrosse, which is obviously quite physical and allows vicious stick checks and other rough play. Rough play in hockey has always gotten tempers going leading to fights. Lets not pretend that only stupid people fight though. Fighting is human nature and everyone from the worlds greatest genius to the dumbest person that is not considered special got there genes from violent ancestors or they wouldn't be here today.

I get why the league wants to limit concussions, but I prefer rougher hockey personally. Would rather watch a close game where players fight for every inch of ice, than a high scoring skill games. I appreciate a nice goal, but for me they are even sweeter when you don't see them 4 times a game.

 

[Cobra777]

Love of by-gone era hockey. eager to not just trade Ivan Svensky for Patrick O'Thuggo, but release Svensky outright so we cannot put him in the lineup. Let him hoist cups elsewhere!

Old notions that fighting is a key entertainment aspect of the game and part of the entertainment package that is required for the fans still pollutes these very pages- very sad. The game needs to grow the base and that means fighting becomes weird like in all non-WWE sports.

Lots of President's Choice Memories When They Were Good being eaten on these pages too. We are getting a Simmonds and a Thornton, not THE Simmonds and THE Thornton.

Further, this love of toughness stems from confusion about the playoff whistle and the US TV network deal that is required to save the San Diego Surf and the New Orleans Booze Hounds which must take out the Canadian Branch Plant Division

And a refusal to accept that the NHL is both a cornerstone of Canadain culture and an American, New York City-based entertainment product

That is your opinion, Tons of fans if you ask them don't like the new NHL's watered down multiple power play new vision of the game and prefer the old style tough hockey which includes all fundamentals where a penalty called had to be over obvious and earned by impeding forward progress without the ridiculous amount of penalties per game now being called as per fouls like basketball. Those who are against does not warrant being called confused. When the league was able to police themselves the cheap shot artists who went out to maim and hurt especially the stars of the league were held in check of a high price to be paid if you wanted to be an idiot.

I see no need to call out fans that disagree and may like old style hockey play that may contain some emotional fisticuffs, toughness and grit because that still wins Stanley cups. Old style hockey didn't have 95 power plays a game massively reducing 5 vs 5 play per game more so than any time in the history of the game for the new inflated over stretched interpretation of how penalties are now defined from the rule book. This was done to increase and produce offense in the game narratives to which many fans think its far overdone. The game back when was less dictated by the refs doling out the most ridiculous soft calls at crucial times which now has too much merit on a outcome of a game.

The game of Hockey was founded on its fundamentals, high skill, toughness, perserverance, high adrenaline, physical contact all performed on skates to make it the fastest most exciting sport in the world.

Just because the NHL with Bettman wanting to change old style parameters of the game just to suit offense does not dictate for many fans to have to like it.

 

[AreBe]

That is your opinion, Tons of fans if you ask them don't like the new NHL's watered down multiple power play new vision of the game and prefer the old style tough hockey which includes all fundamentals where a penalty called had to be over obvious and earned by impeding forward progress without the ridiculous amount of penalties per game now being called as per fouls like basketball. Those who are against does not warrant being called confused. When the league was able to police themselves the cheap shot artists who went out to maim and hurt especially the stars of the league were held in check of a high price to be paid if you wanted to be an idiot.

I see no need to call out fans that disagree and may like old style hockey play that may contain some emotional fisticuffs, toughness and grit because that still wins Stanley cups. Old style hockey didn't have 95 power plays a game massively reducing 5 vs 5 play per game more so than any time in the history of the game for the new inflated over stretched interpretation of how penalties are now defined from the rule book. This was done to increase and produce offense in the game narratives to which many fans think its far overdone. The game back when was less dictated by the refs doling out the most ridiculous soft calls at crucial times which now has too much merit on a outcome of a game.

The game of Hockey was founded on its fundamentals, high skill, toughness, perserverance, high adrenaline, physical contact all performed on skates to make it the fastest most exciting sport in the world.

Just because the NHL with Bettman wanting to change old style parameters of the game just to suit offense does not dictate for many fans to have to like it.

You set out 1, a somewhat traditional view of the game, 2, a 1970's view of the game when the Philadelphia Flyers set the game back 30 years and is still trying to recover from the fans of 70's hockey (and who see fighting as part of the entertainment package of a hockey game like a dunk in the NBA even though there are no style points awarded for the windmill dunk and no more goals or points awarded to the team that wins the most fights in hockey) and 3, a Canadian view - the 30 or 40 years of Don Cherry preaching to Canadians view of the game, (Good Canadian Kid good, European interloper stealing our otherwise Canadian jobs, bad)

You may be free to assert your preference every time you go to a grocery store or liquor store and buy whatever brand of cheese you want and any Scotch you want and in no way need to justify your pick, and there will be many producers competing for your business making a wide variety of widgets to meet your taste and needs.

However, in hockey, there is only one real -deal league - only one supplier unlike cheese or Scotch- The New York City-based NHL/ American Association of United States Ice Hockey Teams that is one of the defining features of Canadian culture and the near-endless demand for the teams in the Canadian Branch Plant Division.

The Canadian cultural facts enable the league to poke Canadian fans in the eye with impunity. And as hockey is the golden goose for 2 sports networks, the criticism of the league - and I am not saying it does not get criticized- needs to be muted- of course, defamation is never ok, but demonstrably proving the league has it in for Canada and killing the golden goose is not the business model of the sports networks.

With the San Diego Surf and the New Orleans Booze Hounds along with other teams struggling in non- traditional markets, the leauge needs to grow- teams are in debt I assume, and need growth to pay it off, stagnation is not an option

There are the horns of the dilemma too - must be in markets where hockey is beneath high school sports to get the TV deal, so as to have a big footprint- and on the other hand, this big footprint means your stuck propping up the Booze Hounds and the Surf which cost you money So you need to be in loser markets to get the prize - the problem-solving US TV deal.

Several things need to happen for this to work:
1 must grow the fanbase- this means past traditional fans can love it or lump it- Where are they going to go? If I make the only Scotch, and you want Scotch, too bad for you if I make it more or less peaty that you like- too bad, buy my Scotch or don't have Scotch. I am altering my Scotch to increase sales and to appeal to those who do not like the current flavor
2, Fighting becomes weird
3, Must show Madison Ave that they need not fear an All Canadian Stanley Cup and an Ottawa vs Winnipeg ratings disaster

So the game changes- you need to open it up and let the skill show. Garbage rugby scrum pushed into the net is not so great- the pads are still far too big- they need to mandate 1980's pad dimensions- not pad material - but pad width, etc.

Fighting hurts the credibility of the game. Hard-hitting is fine but fighting is not fine.

But the biggest problem the Candian teams face is that they are in the Canadian Branch Plant Division and Maddison Avenue is not handing over fat bucks for the Canadian teams to have deep runs. The league has done 2 things: 1, The Rules are called differently in the playoffs- American teams are allowed to run roughshod over Canbdadin ones but not the other way around- One disastrous consequence is that fans of Canadian teams perceive this avoidance of penalties by Canadian teams as a lack of toughness and demand their teams get tougher- that is to say, get more penalties in the playoffs and give the other team powerplays. and 2The reason why the divisions are set us as they are is to knock the Canadain teams out by the 2nd round

The only way around it is to outskate and out -talent the opponent. That is the only way Canadian teams can survive. All analytics all the time- the Leafs have an analytics department! This truly is the golden age of Leafs management.

Why you are not entitled to your preference and must be called out on it and made to be ashamed of your tastes in hockey is because 1 your views are a disastrous course of action for Canadian teams- getting tough means getting penalties for Canadian teams and giving powerplays to the other team -very, very bad 2, you want the Leafs to play yesterday's style -that is gone. we need analytics to try to figure out tomorrow's style and build for that.

I am not sure that Philadelphia Flyers hockey was in fact hockey. Your views are dangerous to Leafs Management- but I have no doubt you speak for the majority of Leafs Nation