Who is the better fit to coach this team?

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Judging from this off-season, I think there may be concerns over Keefe's control of the room: new assistants, veteran leadership support.

He didn't get to pick his assistants when he took over, and one of them left for another job.

And doesn't every GM/fan talk about adding veteran leadership being a good thing under any circumstance?

How in any way does that mean that he doesn't have control of the room?

 

[al secord]

Charlie Sheen's brother. Loved him in Young Guns.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

It's amazing how we all watched Lou and Babcock waste the massive ELC advantage years of our stars, with countless stupid decisions, and yet 1-2 years later, some still can't accept that they are justifiably gone.

Just wait until the Islanders implode. They'll likely still have to trade at least 1 good player to fit both Barzal and Pulock under the cap unless he unloads assets in a Ladd deal.

That team is getting old and they'll have a bunch of money tied up in 30+ year olds that can't score.

 

[robertmac43]

Why is this even a poll? lol

 

[cesareborgia]

Obviously "other."

No matter how much you like Keefe, not voting "other" means that you believe he is the absolute best fit in the world for us.

 

[ACC1224]

Just wait until the Islanders implode. They'll likely still have to trade at least 1 good player to fit both Barzal and Pulock under the cap unless he unloads assets in a Ladd deal.

That team is getting old and they'll have a bunch of money tied up in 30+ year olds that can't score.

Why would the Islanders imploding be important for the Leafs?

 

[AreBe]

It's amazing how we all watched Lou and Babcock waste the massive ELC advantage years of our stars, with countless stupid decisions, and yet 1-2 years later, some still can't accept that they are justifiably gone.

Love of by-gone era hockey. eager to not just trade Ivan Svensky for Patrick O'Thuggo, but release Svensky outright so we cannot put him in the lineup. Let him hoist cups elsewhere!

Old notions that fighting is a key entertainment aspect of the game and part of the entertainment package that is required for the fans still pollutes these very pages- very sad. The game needs to grow the base and that means fighting becomes weird like in all non-WWE sports.

Lots of President's Choice Memories When They Were Good being eaten on these pages too. We are getting a Simmonds and a Thornton, not THE Simmonds and THE Thornton.

Further, this love of toughness stems from confusion about the playoff whistle and the US TV network deal that is required to save the San Diego Surf and the New Orleans Booze Hounds which must take out the Canadian Branch Plant Division

And a refusal to accept that the NHL is both a cornerstone of Canadain culture and an American, New York City-based entertainment product

 

[egd27]

Just wait until the Islanders implode. They'll likely still have to trade at least 1 good player to fit both Barzal and Pulock under the cap unless he unloads assets in a Ladd deal.

That team is getting old and they'll have a bunch of money tied up in 30+ year olds that can't score.

Can you explain how this relates to discussing the merits and weaknesses of the past two Leaf coaches?

 

[justashadowof]

Love of by-gone era hockey. eager to not just trade Ivan Svensky for Patrick O'Thuggo, but release Svensky outright so we cannot put him in the lineup. Let him hoist cups elsewhere!

Old notions that fighting is a key entertainment aspect of the game and part of the entertainment package that is required for the fans still pollutes these very pages- very sad. The game needs to grow the base and that means fighting becomes weird like in all non-WWE sports.

Lots of President's Choice Memories When They Were Good being eaten on these pages too. We are getting a Simmonds and a Thornton, not THE Simmonds and THE Thornton.

Further, this love of toughness stems from confusion about the playoff whistle and the US TV network deal that is required to save the San Diego Surf and the New Orleans Booze Hounds which must take out the Canadian Branch Plant Division

And a refusal to accept that the NHL is both a cornerstone of Canadain culture and an American, New York City-based entertainment product

The NHL has had fighting since the mid 1920's when the Chicago and Detroit teams were owned good ol' fashioned mobsters. Doubtless that fighting in hockey was always about selling tickets.

Hockey has had bodychecking far pre-dating mobster owned teams. I get it that a little bit of the ultraveolance can be triggering for the gentler among us who have conflicting feelings over fairness, strength, hierarchy, beauty, control and authority. It get it that in their minds floats a fantastical world where all are equal but some are more equal than others. Where everyone is free to live under the thumb of the same authority. Where strength and beauty are irrelevant because they're no longer recognizable in a sea of blue hair and body fat.

 

[cesareborgia]

Love of by-gone era hockey. eager to not just trade Ivan Svensky for Patrick O'Thuggo, but release Svensky outright so we cannot put him in the lineup. Let him hoist cups elsewhere!

Old notions that fighting is a key entertainment aspect of the game and part of the entertainment package that is required for the fans still pollutes these very pages- very sad. The game needs to grow the base and that means fighting becomes weird like in all non-WWE sports.

Lots of President's Choice Memories When They Were Good being eaten on these pages too. We are getting a Simmonds and a Thornton, not THE Simmonds and THE Thornton.

Further, this love of toughness stems from confusion about the playoff whistle and the US TV network deal that is required to save the San Diego Surf and the New Orleans Booze Hounds which must take out the Canadian Branch Plant Division

And a refusal to accept that the NHL is both a cornerstone of Canadain culture and an American, New York City-based entertainment product

Genuinely love these posts from you. They always crack me up.

Couldn't be more wrong about toughness not being important in today's game, though. No matter how biased the league is against the Leafs, you can't win without toughness.

 

[justashadowof]

Why would the Islanders imploding be important for the Leafs?

Perhaps because there's this insane notion that Lou Lamiarillo failing in Long Island would be some kind of a vindication for Kyle Dubas. Like both can't be successes or failures at the same time.

 

[Bloomberg]

It's is kind of ironic how Babs was always saying this team needed more toughness and got fired because Dubas pushed for an small Hockey IQ type of team (I'm not going to use "skill" because skill encompasses shooting, ability to defend, clear the net, etc.). And now we have a team that Babs was preaching for.

 

[ACC1224]

Perhaps because there's this insane notion that Lou Lamiarillo failing in Long Island would be some kind of a vindication for Kyle Dubas. Like both can't be successes or failures at the same time.

Yeah it’s pretty bizarre

 

[justashadowof]

It's is kind of ironic how Babs was always saying this team needed more toughness and got fired because Dubas pushed for an small Hockey IQ type of team (I'm not going to use "skill" because skill encompasses shooting, ability to defend, clear the net, etc.). And now we have a team that Babs was preaching for.

I don't have any issue with what you said but is this team "tougher" than the team Babcock had 3 years ago? There's Simmonds now, but there was Martin and Komarov then. There's Bogosian but there was Polak then. There's Muzzin now, Babcock did have the use of Muzzin for a significant time. There's.... I don't know... Thornton? Babcock had Kadri who was certainly more consistently physical than a 41 yo Thornton.

 

[Bloomberg]

I don't have any issue with what you said but is this team "tougher" than the team Babcock had 3 years ago? There's Simmonds now, but there was Martin and Komarov then. There's Bogosian but there was Polak then. There's Muzzin now, Babcock did have the use of Muzzin for a significant time. There's.... I don't know... Thornton? Babcock had Kadri who was certainly more consistently physical than a 41 yo Thornton.

I'm not sure if this team is tougher than the 2017-2018 team, but if you use that as a benchmark., the Leafs had 105 points that season. So, that would kinda suggest Babs is likely to have success with this team, no? I would say though I think losing Kadri took a lot out of the team (for the regular season at least)

 

[NinjaKick]

Keefe has my full support going into the new season... I think at the very least he deserves a full season with this team to fully implement his strategy and get the most out of this group.
.
that said... I'll be the first person to criticize Keefe if things don't go as planned because in my eyes this team is absolutely a contender for the playoffs... what happens after that? who knows

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I thought Babcock had his good moments as Leaf coach. Still, those are now footnotes in the history of a storied franchise. We're about to see what Keefe can continue to do.

Throw out babcock section of last season and Keefe had a good win %
Powerplay was great,the penalty kill was a black hole terrible disgusting actually. That’s on the players and Freddy having a sh!t year for his standards.

Keefe has much better flow,has the room and doesn’t live or die off the stretch pass. Although i like the stretch pass occasionally. Babcock based his game plan off it if we remember the regularity of seeing it in games.

Keefe runs a bench better. I will be watching closely how he runs things nonetheless.

 

[ULF_55]

Obviously "other."

No matter how much you like Keefe, not voting "other" means that you believe he is the absolute best fit in the world for us.

Yes, kind of should be other, which means it's a fantasy question.

Most coaches don't resign.

If you could have any active coach for the team who would it be?

I dislike him, but it would be interesting to see Tortorella in charge ... it would be an interesting pivot. I don't think there'd be any sneaker crap, it would be out in front.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Babcock is neither a terrible coach or person. He's a product of a time, which didn't fit philosophically with Dubas, nor an emerging group of ever more confident young players. He lost the room, plain and simple. It was time for him to go.

Keefe seems to be a far more 'modern' style coach. His pedigree is solid, basically what an organization would like to see when pursuing a new coach who might connect with his players. Tactically, I'm sure he's as able as most, motivationally I think he'll be more confident than last year, his flexibility of approach is something I appreciate. I like the tandem of Malhotra and Maclean (good cop/bad cop) to assist in coercing the team to work harder. Most importantly, I saw Matthews play his most complete hockey during the play-ins which I think bodes well for holding others accountable. With the additional vets on the squad, I think we're going to see a team that demands more of itself than we've seen in a long time. Keefe will be freer to plot a course he wants to team to follow, he won't be herding a bunch of kittens.

I would think differently than this post on Babcock. He was a nasty piece of work to many many players along the way. We all seen the players cone out against him. That is so rare in hockey that I don’t remember the last time a bunch of players came out trying to bury a man like that. I’m not sure it ever happened. Where there is smoke there is fire eh.
I don’t think he will coach again in the Nhl. He’s a hot button as soon as a G.M mentions him likely
Edit: it really pays nicely to be good to people in more ways than you know i believe. He’s missed that memo

 

[Buds17]

Throw out babcock section of last season and Keefe had a good win %
Powerplay was great,the penalty kill was a black hole terrible disgusting actually. That’s on the players and Freddy having a sh!t year for his standards.

Keefe has much better flow,has the room and doesn’t live or die off the stretch pass. Although i like the stretch pass occasionally. Babcock based his game plan off it if we remember the regularity of seeing it in games.

Keefe runs a bench better. I will be watching closely how he runs things nonetheless.

I'm definitely hoping Keefe has the greater amount of success...for the obvious reasons.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I don't think Keefe's really had enough time to properly judge who's a better fit. I think Keefe's style is built towards what hockey will become and Babcock's is built on what it is now though. Both are good coaches with different blind spots though. Babcock couldn't adapt fast enough, and I think Keefe needs to remember the rules are very different in the playoffs (which is beyond stupid).

Babcock recognized the value of a tough to play against bottom 6 but his vision didn't align with Dubas and I think as Keefe gets more familiar he needs to butt heads a little more with the GM on what the team needs on the ice vs on paper.

With all the changes this offseason though, it looks like we're going to get a blend of both styles.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Jeez. Already?
Got to be really bored to even think about this!
Threads like this are part of the reason free agents do not want to come to Toronto.
Not even preseason and we are questioning the coach.
Exhibit 12,459 on why you do not want to sign here.

There is ONE reason players didn't sign here, the team was dog shit, that's it, that's the ONLY reason, not the media or fans, or anything else, the team sucked.

 

[AreBe]

There is ONE reason players didn't sign here, the team was dog shit, that's it, that's the ONLY reason, not the media or fans, or anything else, the team sucked.

And media hounding with 2 sports networks dissecting tedious minutia of non-stories all year long and any screw up is the big story until the next game
And taxes.
And too much spotlight
And frothing at the mouth against all those who aren't good Canadian kid 4th line grinders
And booing of players seen to be overpaid because they are not who they were 15 years ago as Leafs Nation has gotten fat off of President's Choice Memories of When They Were Good
And this is not California
And you cannot golf in February
And there are more outrageously attractive celebrities in California

There are many, many, many good reasons to not sign here.

Home may be the cottage in Muskoka, but you play elsewhere- Toronto is very expensive in comparison to many other NHL cities

 

[Suntouchable13]

It's is kind of ironic how Babs was always saying this team needed more toughness and got fired because Dubas pushed for an small Hockey IQ type of team (I'm not going to use "skill" because skill encompasses shooting, ability to defend, clear the net, etc.). And now we have a team that Babs was preaching for.

Same Babcock that benched Martin for half a season for Kap?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

And media hounding with 2 sports networks dissecting tedious minutia of non-stories all year long and any screw up is the big story until the next game
And taxes.
And too much spotlight
And frothing at the mouth against all those who aren't good Canadian kid 4th line grinders
And booing of players seen to be overpaid because they are not who they were 15 years ago as Leafs Nation has gotten fat off of President's Choice Memories of When They Were Good
And this is not California
And you cannot golf in February
And there are more outrageously attractive celebrities in California

There are many, many, many good reasons to not sign here.

Home may be the cottage in Muskoka, but you play elsewhere- Toronto is very expensive in comparison to many other NHL cities

The team sucked that's the ONLY reason, and sometimes not even that matters, Buffalo has been a bottom 10 team for nearly a decade and they just landed Hall.