Who is the better fit to coach this team?

[Wafflewhipper]

You set out 1, a somewhat traditional view of the game, 2, a 1970's view of the game when the Philadelphia Flyers set the game bak 30 years and is still trying to recover from the fans of 70's hockey (and who see fighting as part of the entertainment package of a hockey game like a dunk in the NBA even though there are no style points awarded for the windmill dunk and no more goals or points awarded to the team that wins the most fights in hockey) and 3, a Canadian view - the 30 or 40 years of Don Cherry preaching to Canadians view of the game, (Good Canadian Kid good, European interloper stealing our otherwise Canadian jobs, bad)

You may be free to assert your preference every time you go to a grocery store or liquor store and buy whatever brand of cheese you want and any Scotch you want and in no way need to justify your pick, and there will be many producers competing for your business making a wide variety of widgets to meet your taste and needs.

However, in hockey, there is only one real -deal league - only one supplier unlike cheese or Scotch- The New York City-based NHL/ American Association of United States Ice Hockey Teams that is one of the defending features of Canadian culture and the near-endless demand for the teams in the Canadian Branch Plant Division.

The Canadian cultural facts enable the league to poke Canadian fans in the eye with impunity. And as hockey is the golden goose for 2 sports networks, the criticism of the league - and I am not saying it does not get criticized- needs to be muted- of course, defamation is never ok, but demonstrably proving the league has it in for Canada and killing the golden goose is not the business model of the sports networks.

With the San Diego Surf and the New Orleans Booze Hounds along with other teams struggling in non- traditional markets, the leauge needs to grow- teams are in debt I assume, and need growth to pay it off, stagnation is not an option

There are the horns of the dilemma too - must be in markets where hockey is beneath high school sports to get the TV deal, so as to have a big footprint- and on the other hand, this big footprint means your stuck propping up the Booze Hounds and the Surf which cost you money So you need to be in loser markets to get the prize - the problem-solving US TV deal.

Several things need to happen for this to work:
1 must grow the fanbase- this means past traditional fans- Where are they going to go? If I make the only Scotch, and you want Scotch, too bad for you if I make it more or less peaty that you like- too bad, buy my Scotch or don't have Scotch. I am altering my Scotch to increase sales and to appeal to those who do not like the current flavor
2, Fighting becomes weird
3, Must show Madison Ave that they need not fear an All Candian Stanley Cup and an Ottawa vs Winnipeg ratings disaster

So the game changes- you need to open it up and let the skill show. Garbage rugby scrum pushed into the net is not so great- the pads are still far too big- they need to mandate 1980's pad dimensions- not pad material - but pad width, etc.

Fighting hurts the credibility of the game. Hard-hitting is fine but fighting is not fine.

But the biggest problem the Candian teams face is that they are in the Canadian Branch Plant Division and Maddison Avenue is not falling over fat bucks for the Canadian teams to have deep runs. The league has done 2 things: 1, The Rules are called differently in the playoffs- Americain teams are allowed to run roughshod over Canbdadin ones but not the other way around- One disastrous consequence is that fans of Canadian teams perceive this avoidance of penalties by Candian teams as a lack of toughness and demand their teams get tougher- that is to say, get more penalties in the playoffs and give the other team powerplays. and 2The reason why the divisions are set us as they are is to knock the Canadain teams out by the 2nd round

The only way around it is to outskate and out -talent the opponent. That is the only way Canadian teams can survive. All analytics all the time- the Leafs have an analytics department! This truly is the golden age of Leafs management.

Why you are not entitled to your preference and must be called out on it and made to be ashamed of your tastes in hockey is because 1 your views are a disastrous course of action for Canadian teams- getting tough means getting penalties for Canadian teams and giving powerplays to the other team -very, very bad 2, you want the Leafs to play yesterday's style -that is gone. we need analytics to try to figure out tomorrow's style and build for that.

I am not sure that Philadelphia Flyers hockey was in fact hockey. Your views are dangerous to Leafs Management- but I have no doubt you speak for the majority of Leafs Nation

Quite a pile of mumbo jumbo B.S in this if you ask me lol. Wtf is a Canadian branch plant division. What are u talking about.This stuff is. Just getting hard to read. Nonsense.

 

[AreBe]

Quite a pile of mumbo jumbo B.S in this if you ask me lol. Wtf is a Canadian branch plant division. What are u talking about.This stuff is. Just getting hard to read. Nonsense.

Canadian Branch Plant Division pays the bills for the league during the regular season, sending money back to the New York head office as the league is as American as a Stetson hat on a Mountie, and then the teams in the division are invited to leave the playoff competition ASAP so as to not screw up the dreams of a fat US TV contract.

 

[ottomaddox]

I don't know why there is such an overwhelming vote for Keefe. I got really concerned about what coach he might be after Torts mad him look like a chump. I can't think of a poorer coaching job than vs. CBJ game 5.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Canadian Branch Plant Division pays the bills for the league during the regular season, and then the teams in the division are invited to leave the playoff competition ASAP so as to not screw up the dreams of a fat US TV contract.

Really eh. Wow sounds like you got it all figured out. Maybe you should run for commish there

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I don't know why there is such an overwhelming vote for Keefe. I got really concerned about what coach he might be after Torts mad him look like a chump. I can't think of a poorer coaching job than vs. CBJ game 5.

Maybe you don’t understand why keefe because its a habit you have

 

[Cobra777]

You set out 1, a somewhat traditional view of the game, 2, a 1970's view of the game when the Philadelphia Flyers set the game back 30 years and is still trying to recover from the fans of 70's hockey (and who see fighting as part of the entertainment package of a hockey game like a dunk in the NBA even though there are no style points awarded for the windmill dunk and no more goals or points awarded to the team that wins the most fights in hockey) and 3, a Canadian view - the 30 or 40 years of Don Cherry preaching to Canadians view of the game, (Good Canadian Kid good, European interloper stealing our otherwise Canadian jobs, bad)

You may be free to assert your preference every time you go to a grocery store or liquor store and buy whatever brand of cheese you want and any Scotch you want and in no way need to justify your pick, and there will be many producers competing for your business making a wide variety of widgets to meet your taste and needs.

However, in hockey, there is only one real -deal league - only one supplier unlike cheese or Scotch- The New York City-based NHL/ American Association of United States Ice Hockey Teams that is one of the defining features of Canadian culture and the near-endless demand for the teams in the Canadian Branch Plant Division.

The Canadian cultural facts enable the league to poke Canadian fans in the eye with impunity. And as hockey is the golden goose for 2 sports networks, the criticism of the league - and I am not saying it does not get criticized- needs to be muted- of course, defamation is never ok, but demonstrably proving the league has it in for Canada and killing the golden goose is not the business model of the sports networks.

With the San Diego Surf and the New Orleans Booze Hounds along with other teams struggling in non- traditional markets, the leauge needs to grow- teams are in debt I assume, and need growth to pay it off, stagnation is not an option

There are the horns of the dilemma too - must be in markets where hockey is beneath high school sports to get the TV deal, so as to have a big footprint- and on the other hand, this big footprint means your stuck propping up the Booze Hounds and the Surf which cost you money So you need to be in loser markets to get the prize - the problem-solving US TV deal.

Several things need to happen for this to work:
1 must grow the fanbase- this means past traditional fans can love it or lump it- Where are they going to go? If I make the only Scotch, and you want Scotch, too bad for you if I make it more or less peaty that you like- too bad, buy my Scotch or don't have Scotch. I am altering my Scotch to increase sales and to appeal to those who do not like the current flavor
2, Fighting becomes weird
3, Must show Madison Ave that they need not fear an All Candian Stanley Cup and an Ottawa vs Winnipeg ratings disaster

So the game changes- you need to open it up and let the skill show. Garbage rugby scrum pushed into the net is not so great- the pads are still far too big- they need to mandate 1980's pad dimensions- not pad material - but pad width, etc.

Fighting hurts the credibility of the game. Hard-hitting is fine but fighting is not fine.

But the biggest problem the Candian teams face is that they are in the Canadian Branch Plant Division and Maddison Avenue is not falling over fat bucks for the Canadian teams to have deep runs. The league has done 2 things: 1, The Rules are called differently in the playoffs- Americain teams are allowed to run roughshod over Canbdadin ones but not the other way around- One disastrous consequence is that fans of Canadian teams perceive this avoidance of penalties by Candian teams as a lack of toughness and demand their teams get tougher- that is to say, get more penalties in the playoffs and give the other team powerplays. and 2The reason why the divisions are set us as they are is to knock the Canadain teams out by the 2nd round

The only way around it is to outskate and out -talent the opponent. That is the only way Canadian teams can survive. All analytics all the time- the Leafs have an analytics department! This truly is the golden age of Leafs management.

Why you are not entitled to your preference and must be called out on it and made to be ashamed of your tastes in hockey is because 1 your views are a disastrous course of action for Canadian teams- getting tough means getting penalties for Canadian teams and giving powerplays to the other team -very, very bad 2, you want the Leafs to play yesterday's style -that is gone. we need analytics to try to figure out tomorrow's style and build for that.

I am not sure that Philadelphia Flyers hockey was in fact hockey. Your views are dangerous to Leafs Management- but I have no doubt you speak for the majority of Leafs Nation

You could NEVER shame me nor call me out of your outrageous theory because in your remote mind, stretch the story narrative with Philly hockey guidelines game in and out, get off your POMPOUS horse and go play some analytical water polo.

 

[AreBe]

Really eh. Wow sounds like you got it all figured out. Maybe you should run for commish there

The Commissioner is doing very, very well.
Lots of very, very, very smart Ivey League LAwyer- MBA- Accountant type- really whip-smart managers and executives at the New York head office.

Really impressive, quite frankly, because the marginal teams are still afloat and the arenas in Canada are sold out despite the league poking Canada in the eye- how many consecutive times can a bingo machine with 30 balls in it never spit out 1-7 ?.

If it were about letting the best team win, I could be the commissioner. But as it is not, but instead, seeking out a way to maximize revenue streams to keep marginal teams afloat and to get a fat US TV deal while saddled with Canadian teams, but these very Canadian teams pay the bills, and that is very complicated.

Lots of many, many, many exceptionally talented and brilliant people at the league office, and they need them, given that it is not about letting the best team win.

 

[Bomber0104]

The Commissioner is doing very, very well.
Lots of very, very, very smart Ivey League LAwyer- MBA- Accountant type- really whip-smart managers and executives at the New York head office.

Really impressive, quite frankly, because the marginal teams are still afloat and the arenas in Canada are sold out despite the league poking Canada in the eye- how many consecutive times can a bingo machine with 30 balls in it never spit out 1-7 ?.

If it were about letting the best team win, I could be the commissioner. But as it is not, but instead, seeking out a way to maximize revenue streams to keep marginal teams afloat and to get a fat US TV deal while saddled with Canadian teams, but these very Canadian teams pay the bills, and that is very complicated.

Lots of many, many, many exceptionally talented and brilliant people at the league office, and they need them, given that it is not about letting the best team win.

Your whole song and dance would be a lot more compelling if it all didn't just amount to: blindly follow the guy currently running the team...

You're trying to put a overly verbose twist on that but it really is as simple as that.

Nothing new or original sadly. It's just a new way of presenting it.

The fact is the Leafs have gone further in the playoffs against a stronger team with Colton Orr in the lineup than they have with Jason Spezza.

I'm sorry but this is just the reality of situation and I'm sorry it flies directly in the face of what you think about the game.

Like you said, it's a complicated sport and not everyone is going to grasp the intricacies of it.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The Commissioner is doing very, very well.
Lots of very, very, very smart Ivey League LAwyer- MBA- Accountant type- really whip-smart managers and executives at the New York head office.

Really impressive, quite frankly, because the marginal teams are still afloat and the arenas in Canada are sold out despite the league poking Canada in the eye- how many consecutive times can a bingo machine with 30 balls in it never spit out 1-7 ?.

If it were about letting the best team win, I could be the commissioner. But as it is not, but instead, seeking out a way to maximize revenue streams to keep marginal teams afloat and to get a fat US TV deal while saddled with Canadian teams, but these very Canadian teams pay the bills, and that is very complicated.

Lots of many, many, many exceptionally talented and brilliant people at the league office, and they need them, given that it is not about letting the best team win.

It’s far fetched son

 

[Wafflewhipper]

If Keefe plunks Robertson on the left side of the third line with Thornton and Simmonds to start the season he is our modern day coach we need. Them two with Robertson to start would be awesome leadership at the right time. There is nothing saying either will be around the next year so getting it done this year might be the only chance.

 

[AreBe]

It’s far fetched son

The point is, of course, that this top-notch Ivy League law firm that is the NHL head office must be up to no good, otherwise you or me could had the Stanley Cup off to the best team, but we (and people like us) are not. For a reason: It's super complicated to run a league where you treat your ATM machine in Canada with malice but get away with it while whoring out the league - with a 'do whatever it takes, no minimum standard- to American broadcasters, STDs no concern.

Where nerdy Ivy League lawyer- MBA- accountant types meet, some completely legal and very profitable slight of hand is being crafted.

At the end of the day, analytics, for Canadian teams, are mandatory - absolutely mandatory- because Canadian teams can only get ahead on better talent and winning the trades. Note: Analytics is more than CORGI or whatever, but trying to figure out today what tomorrow's statistical model of a championship team looks like and then build the team accordingly.

What Leafs Nation completely fails to understand is that in the salary cap era, you play players today for what they will be tomorrow, and not today for what they were yesterday and you can only do that with good analytics

 

[ShaneFalco]

I'm shocked anyone would pick babcock.... except for a few who HAVE to have a guy who has been in the league for an eternity

 

[X66]

I absolutely love the job that Keefe did with the team.

I don't think people realize how lucky the Leafs had to be to make the playoffs/play-ins after their start with Babcock, and we had one of the best records in the NHL during that time.

Haters will say that we cooled off a bit near the end, but they ignore the huge injuries we had as well.

Mikheyev 31 games
Muzzin 17 games
Ceci 14 games
Rielly 23 games
Johnsson 27 games

 

[stickty111]

I absolutely love the job that Keefe did with the team.

I don't think people realize how lucky the Leafs had to be to make the playoffs/play-ins after their start with Babcock, and we had one of the best records in the NHL during that time.

Haters will say that we cooled off a bit near the end, but they ignore the huge injuries we had as well.

Mikheyev 31 games
Muzzin 17 games
Ceci 14 games
Rielly 23 games
Johnsson 27 games

I made this post before the Jackets play in series.

Muzzin was in the lineup for 2 stretches.
1st stretch with Muzzin: Nov 21st-Dec 27th
This was also the only stretch the defense was fully healthy, so I will just post the stats for the fully healthy defense.

Fully Healthy Defense
Record: 12-4-0 (2nd in the league during that stretch in terms of points%)
CF/60: 60.88(5th)
CA/60: 56.24(15th)
CF%: 51.98(11th)

SCF/60: 31.58(3rd)
SCA/60: 27.9(20th)

HDCF/60: 11.41(8th)
HDCA/60: 11.34(23rd)

xGF/60: 2.66(2nd)
xGA/60: 2.36(14th)

SV%: 92.27(16th)
Analysis
We were terrific offensively by every measure, and outplayed our opponents a lot of the time. We got average goaltending which is all this team needs. The defence had some rough moments, but held their own and were average overall. The SCA and HDCA is a bit misleading. We had the lead a lot of the time, and in fact were #1 in terms of total time with the lead, so it’s better to look at those numbers adjusting for score and venue. When adjusted, the team was top 10 is most measures defensively.


2nd Stretch with Muzzin: Jan 27th-Feb 25th
We were without Rielly during this stretch.
Record: 8-6-1
CF/60: 56.8(16th)
CA/60: 55.6(14th)
CF%: 50.54(14th)

SCF/60: 29.61(2nd)
SCA/60: 27.92(21st)

HDCF/60: 13.19(3rd)
HDCA/60: 11.75(18th)

xGF/60: 2.6(4th)
xGA/60: 2.43(17th)

SV%: 90.66(25th)
Analysis
This one is interesting. Our numbers somehow improved offensively with Rielly out, and defensively we showed some improvement as well. Our record dropped though and you can blame goaltending for that.

We were without Muzzin for 2 stretches.
1st Stretch without Muzzin: Dec 28th-Jan 26th
We were missing Rielly from Jan 13th onwards during this stretch
Record: 4-3-3
CF/60: 59.87(8th)
CA/60: 54.51(12th)
CF%: 52.35(10th)

SCF/60: 30.41(5th)
SCA/60: 26.72(17th)

HDCF/60: 12.88(4th)
HDCA/60: 9.78(9th)

xGF/60: 2.59(7th)
xGA/60: 2.2(10th)

SV%: 90.15(28th)
Analysis
The defensive improvements started before the previous stretch I was talking about. You can make the case around the end of the December is when the team was making gains defensively, and usually it takes about a month for a team to get settled into a coach’s system, so it makes sense. Our offense didn’t take a hit, and we were decent defensively under a lot of metrics. This is also while losing our most important defender in Muzzin. However the team was barely .500 because of the lack of goaltending.

2nd Stretch without Muzzin: Feb 26th-March 11th
We were missing Rielly during this stretch for all but the last game on March 10th
Record: 3-2-1
CF/60: 55.74(14th)
CA/60: 56.36(15th)
CF%: 49.72(16th)

SCF/60: 30.97(5th)
SCA/60: 26.63(16th)

HDCF/60: 9.7(23rd)
HDCA/60: 11.35(19th)

xGF/60: 2.41(11th)
xGA/60: 2.18(10th)

SV%: 92.20(16th)
Analysis
Again losing Muzzin, and the team tightens up a bit defensively. We weren’t great offensively though as were we poor in creating high quality chances during this stretch, and that is the reason we only scraped a .500 record despite decent play everywhere else.

Rielly in the lineup: Nov 21st-Jan 12th
We were without Muzzin from December 28th onwards during this stretch.
Record: 15-6-2(T4th in points%)
CF/60: 60.61(6th)
CA/60: 55.38(15th)
CF%: 52.26(8th)

SCF/60: 30.95(3rd)
SCA/60: 26.74(13th)

HDCF/60: 12.06(6th)
HDCA/60: 10.52(13th)

xGA/60: 2.66(2nd)
xGA/60: 2.26(12th)

SV%: 91.48(23rd)
Analysis
Honestly after the team got fully comfortable a month into Keefe, and even after losing Muzzin, the team was playing great hockey aside from a stinker or 2. They were fantastic offensively, and started to take steps defensively as you can see in the numbers here. They were decent in many metrics, and were really rounding into form. In fact from the time of Muzzin’s injury to Rielly’s injury on Jan 12th, the team was playing great defensive hockey during that short 6 game stretch, but the injuries just were coming at the wrong time.

Rielly out of the lineup: Jan 13th-March 9th
We were without Muzzin as well from Jan 13th-Jan 26th and Feb 26th-March 10th during this stretch.
Record: 11-9-3
CF/60: 56.46(17th)
CA/60: 55.82(16th)
CF%: 50.28(14th)

SCF/60: 29.96(2nd)
SCA/60: 27.96(20th)

HDCF/60: 12.09(8th)
HDCA/60: 11.67(20th)

xGF/60: 2.51(6th)
xGA/60: 2.39(12th)

SV%: 90.54(28th)
Analysis
Even during Rielly’s absence, we were more than fine. The offense was still great, and the defensive numbers were still stable. We got no goaltending though and that’s why we hovered around .500

We went 2 stretches without Rielly and Muzzin in the lineup
1st Stretch: Jan 13th-Jan 26th
Record: 1-1-1
CF/60: 59.58(9th)
CA/60: 57.16(22nd)
CF%: 51.03(15th)

SCF/60:32.61(2nd)
SCA/60: 33.01(30th)

HDCF/60: 11.27(13th)
HDCA/60: 12.48(27th)

xGF/60: 2.4(13th)
xGA/60: 2.59(25th)

SV%: 88.31(27th)
Analysis
Safe to say, any defensive improvements we made from the end of December were quickly washed away in these 3 games when Rielly went out. It’s only 3 games obviously but the team clearly didn’t handle Rielly’s injury well, and it was a disaster for 3 games. Offensively we were still good, but defence and goaltending were awful.

2nd Stretch without Muzzin and Rielly: Feb 26th-March 9th
Record: 2-2-1
CF/60: 53.52(20th)
CA/60: 55.71(16th)
CF%: 49.00(20th)

SCF/60: 29.44(6th)
SCA/60: 25.06(11th)

HDCF/60: 9.24(23rd)
HDCA/60: 10.95(19th)

xGF/60: 2.32(16th)
xGA/60: 2.17(11th)

SV%: 91.60(20th)
Analysis
Night and day difference from the 1st stretch with Muzzin and Rielly out, as the team was much more locked in defensively and rose to above average levels. Creating high quality chances dropped though, and that explains the .500 record.

Final Analysis
When this team became fully comfortable, the defence was making steps and was supporting the elite offensive numbers, but the injuries seemed to ruin any momentum for the team defensively. When they are locked in, they have shown to be a great offensive team while playing decent defensively. They just need average goaltending and they are fine. I like the fact every time they have had their backs against the wall as in losing big defensemen, they have actually played tighter, now just need to avoid injuries.

All we have done since is add a very good defensive d man in Brodie and improved the depth. Interested in seeing what Keefe can do here.