Bednar is the best. Crawford and Hartley had the benefit of having a pre-cap superteam that many head coach could easily coach to a cup
Who is the best/worst Avalanche Head Coach?
- Thread starter Pokecheque
- Start date
people keep saying this, but it's definitely challenging to come into a locker room full of established stars/personalities and keep them focused and not fueding. That whole room of Avs guys at the time were probably Type-A personalities. If it was so easy, then Tony Granato should have been the best Avs coach in history; he had the best roster.
You sound like a sportswriter voting on the Jack Adams.
We've seen instances of bad coaches winning Cups (Craig Berube, Randy Carlyle) but for the most part it takes at least a decent bench boss to take a team the whole way.
Also, I don't think you can just dismiss Crawford and Hartley that easily, as both found success in the NHL (and elsewhere) with different teams following their respective departures from the Avalanche. Hartley even won a Jack Adams himself and after that won championships in the KHL and won coach of the year honors there as well. Crawford played a role in getting the Canucks out of their post-Keenan/Messier doldrums and got them back pretty damned close to contention. IMO if Burke hadn't been so insanely stubborn about Dan Cloutier and gotten them a real goalie they might have gone places.
I don't think "just any" coach could have won those Cups. That's probably what Lacroix's thinking was when he promoted Tony Granato, and oh, how wrong he was.
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GirardSpinorama
Registered User
- Aug 20, 2004
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Bednar and then Q. Everyone else did nothing with any other team. Q got a declining Avs roster and squeezed out good years.
Sacco's poor record speaks for itself but roster also sucked. Granato was the worst for sure.
Sacco's poor record speaks for itself but roster also sucked. Granato was the worst for sure.
ASmileyFace
Landeskog Replacement
Ranking the Middle coaches would be a more interesting exercise. Bednar is the clear best, Granato the clear worst and Sacco easily 2nd worst.
I've got Q as number 2, mostly because that was the era I got really invested in the Avs and in retrospect he got a lot out of some middling rosters. Roy, Crawford and Hartley are all a toss up. Crawford is a shithead with a punchable face but those rosters in the late 90s weren't as good as the early 00s. Hartley rode Crawford's coattails to a cup and was buoyed by some top notch superteam building by PL. Roy was just plain fun, a great motivator and his early goalie pulling changed the league for the better... but his exit left a bitter taste
I've got Q as number 2, mostly because that was the era I got really invested in the Avs and in retrospect he got a lot out of some middling rosters. Roy, Crawford and Hartley are all a toss up. Crawford is a shithead with a punchable face but those rosters in the late 90s weren't as good as the early 00s. Hartley rode Crawford's coattails to a cup and was buoyed by some top notch superteam building by PL. Roy was just plain fun, a great motivator and his early goalie pulling changed the league for the better... but his exit left a bitter taste
- Aug 25, 2006
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Granato has been the worst so far because he had a great lineup and did absolutely nothing with it.
Sacco at least had 2 excuses:
1. His rosters were a lot worst than Granato's.
2. His players could never start on time for him.
Sacco at least had 2 excuses:
1. His rosters were a lot worst than Granato's.
2. His players could never start on time for him.
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The Kingslayer
Registered User
This is actually not that easy of an answer when I look at the rosters each of these guys had. My initial response to the question was Bednar as the best and Granato as the worst.
In Granato's defense, his rosters up front were a lot better than Sacco's but his goaltending was not. I have some fond memories of David Aebischer (notably how he might have actually been even more hotheaded than Roy) but he was not anywhere near good enough to be a legit starter for a contender.
On a side note, I was listening to 32 Thoughts and I had forgotten just how villainized Crawford was in the wake of Team Canada's failure at the Prague Olympics. That game and subsequent shootout was one of the best games I'd ever seen, but yeah, Crow galaxy-brained that to an absurd degree. Just put your best f***ing player out there, especially since your best penalty shot guy, Joe Sakic, wasn't available.
On a side note, I was listening to 32 Thoughts and I had forgotten just how villainized Crawford was in the wake of Team Canada's failure at the Prague Olympics. That game and subsequent shootout was one of the best games I'd ever seen, but yeah, Crow galaxy-brained that to an absurd degree. Just put your best f***ing player out there, especially since your best penalty shot guy, Joe Sakic, wasn't available.
Bowman said Crawford and Hartley were two of the top 5 bench bosses he ever coached against. Never had bad line changes and knew how to set a line up. Never had much "what the hell is he doing out there?" moments like seeing Arnason, Wyatt Smith or Megna.
I don't think the egos were that hard to wrangle. There was no one in that locker room who was a headcase.
I can't believe I keep finding myself defending Granato (to an extent mind you) but one reason that team may not have gelled well is because it simply didn't have much time to gel. Remember this was the year Lacroix gutted, like, half the roster. First he dealt away Battaglia (good riddance) and prospect JoJo for Konowalchuk, then traded for Boughner, Sauer, Hendrickson, Barnaby, Gratton, Vaananen, and Salo. I mean, that's an INSANE amount of turnover for one season, and that's not even counting all the new faces that were there one Day One (Kariya, Selanne, Worrell, Cummins, Nikolishin) and a lot of departures (Messier, Reinprecht, The Sheriff).
That '03-04 team was good on paper, on the ice was a different matter. Was it horrible? No. But Selanne had knee surgery that offseason that took him a full year to recover from, and he looked frickin' slow out there in an Avs jersey. I saw him live when he was still with SJ in an Avs playoff game (Avs lost that one) and I've never seen a player move that fast. Kariya was limited to 51 games and was also mostly a non-factor.
And of course, there was the whole Steve Moore/Todd Bertuzzi incident.
Yes, I think Granato was the worst. But I don't think it's as cut-and-dried as people are saying, and certainly not for the same reasons that others keep citing. Sacco comes damn close far as I'm concerned.
If there was one ego that couldn't be contained, IMHO it was Aebischer. I've mentioned it before, I know for a fact he was a total pissant about the Salo acquisition. Not a huge surprise that he spent the lockout overseas, game back and was mostly unspectacular, and Lacroix sent him packing to Montreal for Theodore (which was a great trade whether people on here want to admit it or not).
Well, arguably the GOAT between the pipes (INarguably the GOAT playoff goalie ever), there's no need to contain that ego. Just let it run free, even when it leads to shit like this.
IMO Sacco doesn't get nearly enough flack for the following:
1. Installing a conservative, boring, dump-and-chase system following the trade of John-Michael Liles that his own players hated when the Avs as an organization have almost always been about speed and offense.
2. Refusing to make any lineup changes following a short win streak, even after Kyle Quincey became healthy, instead opting for the continued presence of one Matt Hunwick (yes, I realize Quincey was not a huge upgrade on him), leading to a huge locker room schism.
3. Completely mishandling a slumping Liles and Duchene, even trying Liles out at forward after healthy scratching him IIRC.
I still think Granato is the worst but I don't think the gap between him and Sacco is all that big.
1. Installing a conservative, boring, dump-and-chase system following the trade of John-Michael Liles that his own players hated when the Avs as an organization have almost always been about speed and offense.
2. Refusing to make any lineup changes following a short win streak, even after Kyle Quincey became healthy, instead opting for the continued presence of one Matt Hunwick (yes, I realize Quincey was not a huge upgrade on him), leading to a huge locker room schism.
3. Completely mishandling a slumping Liles and Duchene, even trying Liles out at forward after healthy scratching him IIRC.
I still think Granato is the worst but I don't think the gap between him and Sacco is all that big.
Someone needs to bring back the "Ridin' Dirty" meme from all those years ago.
expatriatedtexan
Habitual Line Stepper
- Aug 17, 2005
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You know, the thought has occurred to me that we might not all be there.
We've wasted three pages of space on some server farm debating the nuts and bolts of Granato vs Sacco. I'm somewhat impressed by the level of schadenfreude we possess. However, dwelling on those days is just probably not healthy for us. Living through them the first time was probably more than enough.
We've wasted three pages of space on some server farm debating the nuts and bolts of Granato vs Sacco. I'm somewhat impressed by the level of schadenfreude we possess. However, dwelling on those days is just probably not healthy for us. Living through them the first time was probably more than enough.
People HAVE to realize that Granato wasted a legendary roster and Sacco was just incompetent. We shall hash this out until one side yields their argument!
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