Who is the #2 goalie?

[habsfanatics*]

You obviously don't understand locker room dynamics. When you build a team, you don't throw away a member of the family to save 2 cents. When teams bond, they are all a unit, they go to war for each other, if you send the message that, this team ,100% is about Carey Price but we will toss out his back up the second he is hurt, well why should Price go to war if you don't respect him enough to respect his back up.

I grew up a goalie and having a 1a 1b situation is hell. I remember the year I was on a ****** team, I was the clear cut #1 but I broke my wrist, so we brought up a house league goalie but he played well enough to make me work for my job. That was the biggest slap in the face.

But I did it. There was one year where I was in a 1a vs 1b situation and it sucked. Unlessnyouce been a goalie, you don't understand the mental aspects of the game.

This is Price's team, if you want to **** it up by trading Budaj for a 7th rounder so a guy with 10 Gamez experience can try steal your $7m goalies job, then go ahead. That's not a team I want to be part of.

Holy **** dude, are you way over the top or what? Who's overrating Tokarski? Stealing Price's job, wth are you even going about? If they trade Budaj and bring up Tokarski it will be cap saving move/hockey move. I don't care about your beer league experiences and what you had to go through. Tokarkis is no threat to PRice and price isn't going to take a breakdown is Budaj is let go.

 

[HabsFanJosh]

I don't think there is a market for Budaj right now. Wait until mid season and that will change. I'm really hoping we can get Tokarski back in Hamilton. With him and MacDonald there, they might be able to establish a winning culture this season, which would be good for our prospects.

I honestly have no problem with Budaj being our backup. With the amount of games Price plays, it might be better for Tokarskis continued development not to be playing as backup. Plus Budaj is really good in the locker room, and his numbers really aren't all that bad.

 

[Laphroaig]

I like both Budaj and Tokarski. Why don't we just go with the guy who plays best in camp?

 

[Blind Gardien]

I like both Budaj and Tokarski. Why don't we just go with the guy who plays best in camp?

Well, it could be a little more complicated than that. It still is going to come down to evaluating the waiver wire landscape as camp wraps up, and also looking to the future... a future where Budaj is UFA and Tokarski has a cheap 1-way NHL contract. I'm not sure a goalie plays enough in camp that you can really clearly tell who is best from a camp alone. Habs will have their whole body of experience with the players to draw on, and that ought to factor in significantly as well.

But still, a decision doesn't have to, and shouldn't be made until camp. We still can't make it today. Just that it may not be as simple as who plays best in camp when the time comes.

 

[Mr. Hab]

No brainer, imo:

Tokarski>>>Budaj

You don't trade Tokarski...and you don't trade Bourque (amazing for our top 6-9 during PLAYOFFS...we're already missing a 9th forward...you just don't trade Bourque and his good contract).



P.S.: in a year or two Tokarski will have more value than Halak...imo. You don't trade that for nothing (you keep him)...and THERE'S NO WAY IN HELL TOKARSKI SHOULD RISK BEING PUT ON WAIVERS...no way!!!

 

[sandysan]

No brainer, imo:

Tokarski>>>Budaj

You don't trade Tokarski...and you don't trade Bourque (amazing for our top 6-9 during PLAYOFFS...we're already missing a 9th forward...you just don't trade Bourque and his good contract).



P.S.: in a year or two Tokarski will have more value than Halak...imo. You don't trade that for nothing (you keep him)...and THERE'S NO WAY IN HELL TOKARSKI SHOULD RISK BEING PUT ON WAIVERS...no way!!!

wait is we go into next season and tokarski plays a dozen games, how in the hell does a guy with less than 30 NHL games have more value than halak ? that's nonsenical.

He has as close to zero trade value as possible right now, in order to inccrease this he has to play in the NHL which he wont do so long as price is around. the question is if we expose him will someone claim him ? I dont know, they might but its not hard to replace a guy that you have pegged into the " temporary #2 position between price and fucale" especially with Price's penchant for playing lots of games.

you are asking the player to back up what might be the hardest position in professional sports, at the very least we know that budaj can handle this because he HAS handled it. Tokarksi could go either way, and those who think that he's going to be the cat's meow and not another justin pogge as expressing nothing but hope.

he's a depth player in net at best and some people are trying to convince people he is the next roy. he's not ( or more precisely if he is, its way too early to say).

go with the devil you know

 

[Runner77]

We need to move one of them cause

a) We'll lose Tokarski for nothing if we try to waive him.
b) We'll still take 500K in cap hit by sending Budaj to the minors.
c) Carrying three goalies is less than ideal.

Move Budaj somewhere for a 7th and be done with it. There must be someone looking for a backup.

You can't put Tokarski in the minors without exposing him to waivers. At his cap hit $562 K, some team will see him as an opportunity to save money on the cap with their backup (at minimum) or a goalie to develop behind their number 1. He will likely be claimed IMO.

Budaj's cap hit is $1.4 million. In the new CBA you save a max of ~900K (goes up as the nhl min salary increases, i think its NHL min salary +350K) but anything above that amount counts on the cap. For Budaj thats approximately 500K

But he costs NOTHING via waivers, and his cap hit is Miniscule.

No one is trading the farm to get him, but as a guy to take a gamble on, he's literally no risk/high reward. Say he flames out on his new team, he has a two way contract so even if he's now seen around the NHL as a bust after playing badly on a new club, they could just waive him and send him to the minors.

Thats the thing... for a team with no goalie prospect, there is literally NO DOWNSIDE to claiming him on waivers, and thats why he won't clear 29 NHL teams

I'm the first to say that Tokarski has very limited, and possibly zero trade value. I don't believe that we'd get more than a late round pick (if that) for him.

I just think you are underrating waivers, and how little of a risk claiming a guy with an uber-low cap hit and two way contract like Tokarski would be for a team. Thats the biggest point I'm making here, claiming Tokarski on waivers is literally zero risk for the team claiming him. Its a free goalie prospect and one who has played well in limited action.

Clearly, one of them will have to go.

Since there would just be a cap savings of approx. 500K under the current CBA if the above holds true, then the Habs' decision to keep or move Budaj would not be a function of cap room.

If Tokarski has zero trade value today, but can be lost to a waiver claim if sent down, then either way, he has zero value.

What is ironic and still unexplained, is how the Habs preferred Tokarski over Budaj at a critical juncture in the playoffs and allowed Tokarski to be the exclusive starter over the more experienced Budaj.

The indication appears to be that the Habs would not be comfortable giving Budaj the nod in the event of another Price injury. Which leaves the Habs with a gaping hole -- a back up goalie who can't back up for an extended time or at critical junctures, but whose only value appears to be as a dressing room cheerleader, a work ethic reference and Price's substitute when the team plays on consecutive days vs. the greener Tokarski who has shown the ability to hold his own in a small sample slate of games, however, in the highly-charged environment of the playoffs.

I think that those who posited that more viewing is required are bang on, unless, between now and the time the Habs need to make a decision, they receive an improbably good offer for either of them.

I agree he doesn't have much in terms of trade value. I agree that some of the proposals i've seen in trading him are ridiculous. But at a really cheap cap hit, and at his age... a team might be willing to take a chance on him for free via waivers. In fact, given his cap hit is cheaper than most backups, i think its likely.

I also think he's a better goalie than Budaj.

If salaries paid to superstars like Toews and Kane go up faster than the cap room that is available to teams when key contracts are due to expire, I can see how teams try to make ends meet by saving on their more "scrublike" assets, such as a back-up goalie, your third pairing D and/or your 4th line. A guy like Tokarski (in conjunction with other cheaply held assets) would fit into that "stars and scrubs" philosophy, allowing teams to hold on to and to more easily be able afford to pay market value to their best players, esp. in a context where "every dollar counts".

 

[Mr. Hab]

wait is we go into next season and tokarski plays a dozen games, how in the hell does a guy with less than 30 NHL games have more value than Halak ? that's nonsenical.

He has as close to zero trade value as possible right now, in order to inccrease this he has to play in the NHL which he wont do so long as price is around. the question is if we expose him will someone claim him ? I dont know, they might but its not hard to replace a guy that you have pegged into the " temporary #2 position between price and fucale" especially with Price's penchant for playing lots of games.

you are asking the player to back up what might be the hardest position in professional sports, at the very least we know that budaj can handle this because he HAS handled it. Tokarksi could go either way, and those who think that he's going to be the cat's meow and not another justin pogge as expressing nothing but hope.

he's a depth player in net at best and some people are trying to convince people he is the next roy. he's not ( or more precisely if he is, its way too early to say).

go with the devil you know

I wrote:
'' P.S.: in a year or two Tokarski will have more value than Halak...imo. ''

In a year or two...maybe slightly more...I didn't write ''right now''.

Anyways...it's just one opinion of a Hab fan VS another opinion (one opinion) of a Hab fan...as simple as that!!


Playoffs:
in case of another injury to Price...I don't ever want to see Budaj again (I'm sure Hab players feel the same), so...let's go with Tokarski as soon as possible...if not now, then sooner than later.

Just make sure Budaj never gets another playoff game with our Habs, that's all...and do not lose Tokarski via waivers...would be so ridiculous.

Budaj will not help us win...bottom line...we need to win as many games as possible, especially in playoffs. Tokarski VS Budaj can win 3-4-5 more games...imo. Fucal is 2 1/2 - 3 yrs away.

Price
Tokarski
Fucale (backup in 2 1/2 - 3 yrs...no rush)

 

[sandysan]

I wrote:
'' P.S.: in a year or two Tokarski will have more value than Halak...imo. ''

In a year or two...maybe slightly more...I didn't write ''right now''.

Anyways...it's just one opinion of a Hab fan VS another opinion (one opinion) of a Hab fan...as simple as that!!


Playoffs:
in case of another injury to Price...I don't ever want to see Budaj again (I'm sure Hab players feel the same), so...let's go with Tokarski as soon as possible...if not now, then sooner than later.

Just make sure Budaj never gets another playoff game with our Habs, that's all...and do not lose Tokarski via waivers...would be so ridiculous.

Budaj will not help us win...bottom line...we need to win as many games as possible, especially in playoffs. Tokarski VS Budaj can win 3-4-5 more games...imo. Fucal is 2 1/2 - 3 yrs away.

Price
Tokarski
Fucale (backup in 2 1/2 - 3 yrs...no rush)

how many games do you think tokarski plays behind price ? lets be generous and say 20 a season, so in two years he has about 50 games under his belt total. how dos this change anything ? In THREE years he will still have less than a full season of games under his belt.

unless you want to showcase him and develop him as a 1B and split games more evenly with price in order to move him, which is idiotic. He might, might be better than budaj but he's nowhere close to price.

and budaj wont be playing in the playoffs, if he is ( pretty much is anyone but price dons the pads) our goose is cooked.

I dont see how its ridiculous to expose him to the waiver wire, i think it is ridiculous to imagine, only the upside, of his potential contribution to this team based on his less than a bakers dozen number of games. Its okay to hope he will be good, its a completely different kettle of fish to make roster changes on the expectation that he has to be good.

 

[Mr. Hab]

how many games do you think tokarski plays behind price ? lets be generous and say 20 a season, so in two years he has about 50 games under his belt total. how dos this change anything ? In THREE years he will still have less than a full season of games under his belt.

unless you want to showcase him and develop him as a 1B and split games more evenly with price in order to move him, which is idiotic. He might, might be better than budaj but he's nowhere close to price.

and budaj wont be playing in the playoffs, if he is ( pretty much is anyone but price dons the pads) our goose is cooked.

I dont see how its ridiculous to expose him to the waiver wire, i think it is ridiculous to imagine, only the upside, of his potential contribution to this team based on his less than a bakers dozen number of games. Its okay to hope he will be good, its a completely different kettle of fish to make roster changes on the expectation that he has to be good.

Budaj failed everytime Price was injured...

During regular season Price went down for a week (or two?)...Budaj did not bail our Habs...but he's a good cheerleader (like Drewiskie).

Price may get injured again in regular season (not just playoffs)...I would trust Tokarski way more than Budaj, so our Habs should keep Tokarski and not put him on waivers. If Price gets injured again...Tokarski may get more than 20 games. I'd rather those games go to Tokarski VS Budaj.

If you really want to argue...argue with the Habs management...they're the ones who put Tokarski in nets VS the Rangers. Slap to the face of Budaj, BUT it was the right decision...Tokarski gave us a chance to move to Finals...Budaj wouldn't make it close.

There is definitely a team or two (imo) that will pick up Tokarski if we put him on waivers...wouldn't make sense. I'll be pissed if this happens.

Price
Tokarski (solid backup)
Fucale (backup in 2 1/2 - 3yrs...no rush)

 

[MrDangles67]

What do u think you could get in a trade for budaj

 

[CDN24]

What do u think you could get in a trade for budaj

not a whole lot- maybe a million in cap space saved. But at best you are getting a 7th rounder or a prospect that's not going anywhere just the team trading with you needs to free up a spot on the 50 man roster.

 

[sandysan]

What do u think you could get in a trade for budaj

right now, very little. once a goalie ( hopefully someone other than price) goes down, perhaps more. but there are still lots of ufa goalies out there so it depends on when ( or if) they find somewhere to land. as a #2 I think that budaj is a better choice.

If I had to guess, if by the season opener Brodeur is not signed he will retire. thomas on the other hand would likely wait it out in hopes someone comes calling.

 

[Burke the Legend]

If you can get a 3rd for Tokarski you take it. Use that pick later at deadline for a rental.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

To me, the difference in return between Tokarski and Budaj is not worth keeping the latter and trading away the former. Tokarski is a better insurance policy than Budaj is Price is injured again; against the Rangers, I did not think that there was a significant advantage to the Rangers in goaltending, and that says a lot about Tokarski, as I would not have thought that with Budaj in nets.

If Tokarski gets us a 2nd or a 3rd, and Budaj only gets us scraps, I'll happily take the scraps and hang on to Tokarski. If a low-finishing team like Edmonton knocks on our door and offers to swap firsts in 2015 , then I'll change my tune.

 

[LastWordArmy]

You obviously don't understand locker room dynamics. When you build a team, you don't throw away a member of the family to save 2 cents. When teams bond, they are all a unit, they go to war for each other, if you send the message that, this team ,100% is about Carey Price but we will toss out his back up the second he is hurt, well why should Price go to war if you don't respect him enough to respect his back up.

I grew up a goalie and having a 1a 1b situation is hell. I remember the year I was on a ****** team, I was the clear cut #1 but I broke my wrist, so we brought up a house league goalie but he played well enough to make me work for my job. That was the biggest slap in the face.

But I did it. There was one year where I was in a 1a vs 1b situation and it sucked. Unlessnyouce been a goalie, you don't understand the mental aspects of the game.

This is Price's team, if you want to **** it up by trading Budaj for a 7th rounder so a guy with 10 Gamez experience can try steal your $7m goalies job, then go ahead. That's not a team I want to be part of.

Please show me where I said that Tokarski is going to try and steal Price's job? Its not gonna happen.

You keep him to save yourself almost a million on the cap which can be used to strengthen another area at the trade deadline.

This idea that Price will feel threatened by Budaj or Tokarski is nonsense.

 

[Mr. Hab]

Please show me where I said that Tokarski is going to try and steal Price's job? Its not gonna happen.

You keep him to save yourself almost a million on the cap which can be used to strengthen another area at the trade deadline.

This idea that Price will feel threatened by Budaj is nonsense.

Totally agree with the above.
(NOTE: Tokarski instead of Budaj in the bold part...just a ''in a rush'' mistake).

IF Price gets injured...I only trust Tokarski, and Price does get injured sometimes (**** happens, BUT we're more ready with Tokarski VS very average Budaj).

Management feels the same way since they went with Tokarski VS Rangers and it almost paid off completely...1-0 in last game...pretty close.

What do u think you could get in a trade for budaj

Not much...you'd have to wait a bit for many teams to get desperate for a backup goalie...not a great one but a decent to average one.

Tokarski's value will go higher and higher...imo. And we'll keep him if management knows what's best for our Habs (injuries happen...Price is not an iron-man like PK Subban). I don't trust anyone else if price gets injured...gotta keep Tokar. Gotta.

Trade Tokarski?????!!!!!!!!!
Heck! I'd try to find another Tokarski, so we're FULLY READY in case price gets injured again...especially in playoffs.

Find a way to trade Budaj or give him away...we'll save money (good for trade deadline) and we will give better experience to Tokarski (NHL vs AHL).

 

[David Suzuki]

Martin Brodeur.

 

[beowulf]

Didn't notice if anyone else posted this but I just took a glance at one of the season preview mags, ya they are already on the shelf, from Forecaster and they don't even show Budaj under the Habs forecast section. They have Price with a forecast of 37 wins 8 SO 2.28 gaa and .925 sv% and then they have Tokarski with 5 wins 1 SO 2.77 gaa and .912 sv%.

So take that for what it's worth but one mag seems to think Budaj won't be around much longer.