Who is right? Foligno (concerned) Johansen (Just chill folks)

[MAHJ71]

Foligno.

Long term I have concerns that Joey will turn out to be Nash 2.0. Spectacular at times and a non-factor for stretches.

Jarmo's biggest decision will come next July 1- Extend Joey for 8 years at a bazillion per or try to trade him for a bundle of talent. At the risk of alienating all the fanboys I'd strongly consider the latter.

Bold: for the most part isn't this the case already??

 

[cbjgirl]

75% Foligno / 25% Johansen

I can see those that "care" getting too caught up in the losing and griping their sticks too tight (and doing worse). I also can see how a rainbows and butterflies attitude can translate into a complete lack of urgency.

Joey - quit your floating...

Nick - relax, this isn't entirely yours to fix

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Dont know dont care? Thought you were a hockey fan? Do you read the dispatch coverage ever? Sheeeshh.

Here is your precious link

http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com/content/blogs/puck-rakers/2015/10/g3-buffaloed-again.html

No need to be upset, Pubs. You made the thread for people to discuss the topic, right? My take is, it doesn't matter much. IMO, what people say is a lot less important than what they do. If I'm going to parse what they said, I'm going to agree with those who said there's truth to both.

Links are always helpful. We have a lot of out-of-market folks on this forum who don't get/read/have access to the hard copy Dispatch. Thanks.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

There's some truth to both positions. This is going to test Foligno's leadership as Captain. We'll see what happens.

Espen, as far as your position, I'm not a Joey fanboy, but this organization would be absolutely insane to trade Joey. To me, he is the best player in the organization's history, even better than Nash. Last season he carried this team for a good portion of the season. He's off to a slow start, but really has done to qualify as a whipping boy around here.

Frustration is warranted by the fans, but crazy overreaction will just put this organization back to square one.

He had the temerity to challenge a ridiculous low ball contract offer.

"The floater" has 3 points and has generated 12 shots (a 328 pace ) and created a ton of scoring opportunities for teammates in 3 games.

6 foot 4 inch players don't have the same eye "hustle appeal" that short players have. Johansen has a long stride, so he doesn't look like he's trying as hard as a short player with a fast, choppy stride.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Foligno's right. But people are way over reacting to this and are major overreacting to Johansen.

 

[Jackets Fan]

Even if Johansen is Nash 2.0, who cares? If you have guys like Dubinsky, Foligno, Jenner and Hartnell it all balances out in the end.

Besides, Johansen is already a top-notch, true #1 Center on the verge of elite. Those aren't easy to find. If Bob would have been Bob for the the first three games, Joey's 3 points in 3 games would have looked a lot better, and the Foligno, Johansen, Saad line would be receiving praise.

You all need to stop putting so much stock into Joey's interviews. So what, he has a relaxed, and optimistic personality. Big deal?
Guys like Foligno, Dubinsky, etc can call out the team and say all the right things to the media. That's not Johansen's job, and if he were to do so, I bet you all would be like "Who the **** does he think he is?"
It's only been three games. As I've said multiple times, if Bob gets his **** together the team will start winning. You can't expect to win too many games if your goalie gives up 4+ goals every game.

 

[EspenK]

The defenses of Joey bring back memories of how people defended Nash when I first started posting.

Random thought:

If Joey's 3 pts and number of shots project to 82 pts and 328 shots on goal then the Jackets project out to 0-82-0

 

[Jackets Fan]

The defenses of Joey bring back memories of how people defended Nash when I first started posting.

Random thought:

If Joey's 3 pts and number of shots project to 82 pts and 328 shots on goal then the Jackets project out to 0-82-0

Cool story bro

 

[blahblah]

If Johansen is the kind of person that doesn't let things get him too up or down, I don't really have an issue with his statement. Having said that the players need to play with more urgency - none of that was on display against Buffalo.

There is some validity to whether we will want to extend Johansen next time with the kind of contract he is going to demand. I'm not prepared to consider that question at this time. I was in the vast minority on not extending Nash, I'm glad that others are looking at this more closely. I think part of it is that we have much better players around Johansen than we did around Nash so we can see the flaws in Johansen a little easier.

As far as who's right, I'm not sure I really even care about the question and really don't care to answer it.

 

[thebus2288*]

He's not even off to a slow start. He has 3 pts in 3 games? If that's slow I want to see him at %100. We know Johansen doesn't look like he's going 100% all the time, but even when he doesn't look like he's giving it his all he still produces.

The NHL does not score things like fantasy hockey. It looks like he's not giving 100% because he ISNT giving it. WHY do I know that? Because we ALSO know what it looks like when he does give it 90-100%. Playing good doesn't mean you'll automatically get points. Playing bad doesn't automatically mean you wont get points.

The 1st game he made a good pass off the boards after drawing in 2 guys on the PP. He also came VERY close to getting it knocked out of the zone for another time. Murray also made a nice pass, Saad with a nice shot, and Foligno with the screen that literally had the biggest impact on the goal as Henrik literally could not see the puck. The 2nd game goal was "vintage-Nash". Down 5-0, start of the 3rd. No ****in impact on the game at all, or his other 5 meaningless shots. He's left wide open in front and Tyutin makes a nice hard tape to tape pass to him. No work at all. And while the Buffalo pass was "nice", its what SHOULD be expected. He was still -2 and IMO played another **** game, along with Foligno.

I read this as two sides of the same coin.

Joey wants people to calm down because they can fix this. Foligno is detailing the fix.

/shrug

Pretty much. Although Joey seems to not want to admit or really doesn't think the team effort or execution is lacking or is something that could or should be worried about. Even after 3 games I think, unfortunately it is. And he is 1 of those people lacking both.

Second, although it's a nice thought to have guys go full tilt all the time, it's still an 82-game season and then the playoffs. Guys who truly go all out all the time tend to break down and artificially shorten their careers; I'd rather have a guy play an uninspired couple of games and play 82 than dangerously throw himself in front of a shot and miss 4-to-6 weeks with a broken foot, or suffer a nagging injury from "sending a message" in the third period of a 6-1 loss that's going to keep him at 70% for a couple weeks until he has to sit out a game or two anyway.

I'd rather my team be in it and HOPE they don't break down at game 60 than have no reason for them not to break down at game 60. With Nash and Johansen we're talking WAY MORE then "an uninspired couple of games". Johansens 2/3 already. Johansen VERY RARELY amps up the intensity like MANY true #1 centers and "elite" centers that most of you like to compare him too.

It doesn't matter how much talent you have if you don't have the drive or effort to use that talent.

It's a reflection of their respective personalities. I am not sure you can judge 'right' or 'wrong'.

You are wrong!!

He had the temerity to challenge a ridiculous low ball contract offer.

"The floater" has 3 points and has generated 12 shots (a 328 pace ) and created a ton of scoring opportunities for teammates in 3 games.

6 foot 4 inch players don't have the same eye "hustle appeal" that short players have. Johansen has a long stride, so he doesn't look like he's trying as hard as a short player with a fast, choppy stride.

He's "floated" about 60-70% of the season so far. Half of those shots were in a game that we were getting blown out the whole time and the team had 40. Along with his 1 goal that meant absolutely nothing. This "hustle appeal" idea is bogus. He's not giving effort out there. You can tell when Johansen is "burnt out", not giving effort, or hurt, the same way you can tell if 1 of those things are going on with Atkinson or Calvert.

Even if Johansen is Nash 2.0, who cares? If you have guys like Dubinsky, Foligno, Jenner and Hartnell it all balances out in the end.

Besides, Johansen is already a top-notch, true #1 Center on the verge of elite. Those aren't easy to find. If Bob would have been Bob for the the first three games, Joey's 3 points in 3 games would have looked a lot better, and the Foligno, Johansen, Saad line would be receiving praise. .

We (Or I) care because, like Nash, the team literally cant afford paying him 7,8+ long term when his "true value" will be on par with those guys who are making 5.5-6. Maybe like the teams "hype", maybe this Johansen "hype" isn't warranted. His defense, AND YES effort level, is not on the same level, or semantics aside, IMO not really "close" to the "elite" centers in the league. Johansen unfortunately has been the Johansen of past and Bob has unfortunately been Bob of the past. BOTH terribly inconsistent. ALL THREE of Johansen, Foligno, and Saad have NOT LOOKED GOOD.

You can't expect to win too many games if your goalie gives up 4+ goals every game.

You also cant expect to win many scoring only 2 goals a game, no matter where the 2 goals come from.

The defenses of Joey bring back memories of how people defended Nash when I first started posting.

Random thought:

If Joey's 3 pts and number of shots project to 82 pts and 328 shots on goal then the Jackets project out to 0-82-0

Nash couldn't be the problem because he scored points. Wisniewski couldn't be problem because he scored points. Johansen cant be a problem because he scores points. Zherdev is the problem because all he does is score points.

 

[WannabeFinn]

Are people really going after Joey? Hilarious

Like someone said above, I think it's two sides of the same coin here.

 

[Jackets16]

I voted for Foligno, but it is neither. They should be GREATLY concerned. This team isn't ready for the season to start, AGAIN. There is no excuse for it this year. They should have been ready to go from the start. Everyone was playing and playing with their lines most/all of the preseason.

 

[Jackets16]

Even if Johansen is Nash 2.0, who cares? If you have guys like Dubinsky, Foligno, Jenner and Hartnell it all balances out in the end.

Besides, Johansen is already a top-notch, true #1 Center on the verge of elite. Those aren't easy to find. If Bob would have been Bob for the the first three games, Joey's 3 points in 3 games would have looked a lot better, and the Foligno, Johansen, Saad line would be receiving praise.

You all need to stop putting so much stock into Joey's interviews. So what, he has a relaxed, and optimistic personality. Big deal?
Guys like Foligno, Dubinsky, etc can call out the team and say all the right things to the media. That's not Johansen's job, and if he were to do so, I bet you all would be like "Who the **** does he think he is?"
It's only been three games. As I've said multiple times, if Bob gets his **** together the team will start winning. You can't expect to win too many games if your goalie gives up 4+ goals every game.

Teams like Chicago win because their best players and top C play like Foligno/Dubinsky. If we ever want to win like that, Johansen needs to play like that.

 

[Doug19]

Johansen's Nash 2.0? Johansen is pretty consistent putting up points, he doesn't do it all in one game. It's laughable seeing people say he's part of the problem, he's not even close to the problem.

 

[cbj21]

When you loose your first 4 games you better start getting concerned!
Sleepy face is wrong.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Agree with others who see nash 2.0. Too much floating, little interest in defensive zone, etc.
All that being said - Nash's problem was he was the leader of the CBJ while he was doing that.
There are roles for guys who float and score goals, but the Leaders of the team have to help him progress. Nash never had that leadership or simply didn't listen.

 

[PubOFH]

I mean just chill folks....right Joey? I mean sure we are 0-12 but we are only 14 games out of a playoff spot. We will have an awesome stretch the last 6 weeks and screw ourselves out of a top pick again.

 

[Fro]

ANA, LA, CBJ, all looking for their first win...crazy

 

[major major]

ANA, LA, CBJ, all looking for their first win...crazy

The only really surprising one there is Anaheim.

 

[abs94]

Joey is right this is a sport and players have bad days but at some point we need to step up our game.

 

[Doug19]

Off topic, but is Joey getting screwed out of points? He has 5 points in 4 games, but he should have 6 as he and Foligno should have assists on the first goal in buffalo that Saad scored. I know others don't care, but I thought it strange that he isn't getting credit for those points.

 

[CarolinaBlueJacket]

Looks like Foligno is trying too hard. He is definitely adjusting to the new role and needs to relax a bit.

 

[Nanabijou]

Looks like Foligno is trying too hard. He is definitely adjusting to the new role and needs to relax a bit.

Agreed. I never understood why some people were so obsessed with having a captain. He'll adjust eventually, but right now, he's trying to do to much. Just go back to your game from last year and lead by example. Grow into the role.

 

[Viqsi]

I read this as two sides of the same coin.

Joey wants people to calm down because they can fix this. Foligno is detailing the fix.

/shrug

That's about how I read it as well.

 

[CBJSlash]

The first win, much like the first goal, becomes a thing the longer you go without it.

Probably will cost Richards his job, but just chill is closer to reality.


Is Hitchcock the only coach we've ever had that didn't start the season in the crapper?

The frustrating thing for me is seemingly every time we pack the barn or the city gets excited they lay humungous eggs. I can't imagine how much more the city would embrace the team if they came through on these nights.